What are the main differences between Islam and Christianity?
The first was spread by the sword from day 1, the second by year 300AD.
The Koran was actually mostly written by Mohammed in his lifetime.
This creates substantial problems.
Christianity and Judaism had the benefit that although their holy books were also ostensibly written by god, everybody knew that there were a ton of translation errors and general bullshit, and that gave people wiggle room on how to interpret the religion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoT_L7lPpbA
just in case you wanted actual answers and not just memes
>>275164
But Constantine never spread it by the sword, he merely stopped persecution, his successors start to persecute pagans
>>275152
Well besides Christianity seeing Jesus as God in human form and the Trinity, Christianity takes a much more peaceful stance on things.
Christians are supposed to turn the cheek. Islam, on the other hand, encourages violence in the face of those attacking you. This is why Wahhabism can be so popular: muslims are made to believe that there is a worldwide conspiracy against Islam and that waging their false jihad is justified in that regard.
Also, Christianity has central authority figures. The pope, patriarchs, etc. Islam has Imams, who only have true powers in Shia faith. Imams are mostly just Islamic scholars, much like a Protestant preacher.
>>275168
>everybody knew that there were a ton of translation errors and general bullshit, and that gave people wiggle room on how to interpret the religion.
No such thing
>>275152
Islam denies that the holy book of the Jews is the same one that Moses got.
Christianity says that it is, and just applies certain "creative" interpretations to justify why they don't follow it.
>>275168
>This is what Protestants actually believe
Language
I assume most people are more familiar with Christianity here so this is for Islam:
Islam has no trinity and God is not personified, they prefer to keep Allah strictly abstract.
Salvation by faith is not accepted in Islam, one's good deeds are weighed against the bad.
Jesus was a prophet called Isa, but no the son of God. Moses was also a prophet. Some muslims even believe there are allusions to Buddha in the quran, as Mohammed spoke of many prophets before him that remain unmentioned. Islam considers all men "sons of God".
There is a third race called "djinn" alongside humans and angels. They live in their own world separate from Earth and heaven and Mohammed preached to them after he left Earth/ They are not immortal, but have long lifespans. Allah gave them powers to test their moral fiber, but power corrupts and their history is more bloody than humankind. Still, Djinn have free will, and there are good and evil djinn just like humans. Some djinn are muslim. They eat, sleep and marry just like humans do.
Angels in Islam have no free will and are unable to disobey Allah.
Djinn are made of "smokeless" fire, humans are made of earth, angels are made of light.
Satan was a Djinn called Iblis who hung out with angels and was one of God's esteemed creations, before he was kicked out of heaven for refusing to bow to Adam, as he saw his fiery soul as superior to the mundane nature of humans.
Hell is not necessarily eternal in Islam. Atheists and polytheists remain there forever, but Christians, Jews and other monotheists can still go to heaven.
They insist Alexander the Great was Muslim and it frustrates me to no end.
Muslims believe in Adam and Eve but reject original sin. Adam and Eve were forgiven by God, but even if they weren't, you can't inherit sin.
Headscarves are a pre-Islamic tradition. Mohammed told Muslim men to grow beards to distinguish themselves from pagans.
>>275265
>They insist Alexander the Great was Muslim and it frustrates me to no end.
Holy shit thats retarded
>>275265
The mystical/poetic aspects of Islam sound cool. Fucking salafists ruin everything.
>>275178
>Well besides Christianity seeing Jesus as God in human form and the Trinity, Christianity takes a much more peaceful stance on things.
Not really. The Bible is one of the most violent books ever written, and the history of Christians differs little in bloodshed.
>Christians are supposed to turn the cheek. Islam, on the other hand, encourages violence in the face of those attacking you. This is why Wahhabism can be so popular: muslims are made to believe that there is a worldwide conspiracy against Islam and that waging their false jihad is justified in that regard.
The Koran explicitly says "you shall not be aggressors", although like any religion it contradicts itself. You think people can't pull out fanatical and violent Biblical verses?
>Also, Christianity has central authority figures. The pope, patriarchs, etc. Islam has Imams, who only have true powers in Shia faith. Imams are mostly just Islamic scholars, much like a Protestant preacher.
It's like you don't even know what caliphate means.
>>275265
If you're interested in Muslim pseudo-science, you're going to like this:
http://historyofislam.com/the-african-and-muslim-discovery-of-america-before-columbus/
>some ancient Arabic coins were found in the Caribbean
>this is proof that Muslims had been in the Americas before Columbus
>>275289
Hello Ahmed, don't you have some kaffirs to kill?
>>275289
>you shall not be aggressors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad#Siege_of_Medina
>>275286
Yes, but some people get hysterical if you refuse to accept that every Muslim man in the west is a conniving fifth columnist bent on destroying us.
>>275313
I explicitly mentioned the Koran contradicted itself, you sperg. Learn some basic reading comprehension.
>>275307
I knew even being neutral on Islam relative to Christianity would get me labelled a Muslim. I am an atheist and don't think either are peaceful religions, but of course, you faggots can literally respond to any nuanced criticism I have with "muh taqiya", so why bother?
>>275332
Isn't "muh taqiya" a legitimate argument against Shia's though?
Christianity good.
Islam bad.
It's that simple.
>>275337
Taqiya was a response to religious persecution (potential loss of life or property), not lying as part of some insidious plot to infiltrate non-Muslim societies.
>>275337
It would mean you're threatening their life, so it's doubtful.
What memesters mean when they talk about
>muh taqiyya
is permissible lying, a thing in Sunni Islam that is not a doctrine so it doesn't even have a term for it, and it's only ever been discussed as a matter of "Will I incur Shariah penalties if I do this for good reasons" and not as a concerted strategy for propaganda.
>>275341
This sums it up t b h
>>275168
>The Koran was actually mostly written by Mohammed in his lifetime.
the muslim position was that he was illiterate and so couldn't write it down himself, that's one of the reasons why the quran isn't in chronological order.
>>275152
jesus is considered god incarnate in almost all branches of christianity, also the messiah.
islam considers him to be a normal human being (still without a father), also the messiah.
Christians believe jesus died as a result of crucifixion, for the redemption of mankind's sins. the last paschal lamb.
muslims believe he brought the same message other prophets did: there is only one god, y'all niggas need to get back on the right track etc etc
muslims also believe jesus foretold the coming of mohammed, a prophet christianity does not believe in.
>>275152
Islam
-Founded by Muhammad ibn Abdullah of Mecca
-God is 1 and indivisible
-The goal is to 'submit' yourself to god and accept that muhammad is his final messenger
-The 5 pillars of islam (testimony, 5x prayer, charity tax, pilgrimage and fasting) is the criteria that defines a muslim
-The qur'an is the direct word of god and must be followed, while the hadiths shouldn't necessarily be followed (unless it agrees with the quran)
-There is only 1 version of the qur'an and it's often advised to read it in arabic
-2 major sects (Sunni and Shia) that started with the death of muhammad and who should have succeeded him
-Arabic culture is heavily infused within the religion
Christianity
-Founded by Jesus Christ of Galilee, although it can be argued that Paul the apostle is founder of the religion itself (as opposed to the message)
-God is 1 but manifests himself into 2 other entities (holy spirit and christ)
-The goal is to be 'saved' from eternal damnation and this is done by accepting jesus christ as the son of god
-3 major sects (Catholicism, orthodox and protestant) that branched out later into the christian period
-Some sects claim good works are necessary to be a christian while other sects claim faith is the only criteria
-The bible is divided into the old testament (pre-christ) and new testament (post-christ), the latter being followed directly while the former is allowed to be followed but is not required to follow (by follow I mean obey it's commands, christians still believe in the sanctity of the old testament)
-There are many versions of the bible, most of them sourced from greek, latin and hebrew manuscripts such as the textus receptus, the masoretic text, septuagint and vulgate.
-There isn't an inherent jewish cultural infusion even though judaism and christianity have many shared customs and beliefs (from the old testament)
Might have missed something but I think that's enough
>>275995
Edit: I should have made point 3 of Christianity 'The goal is to be 'saved' from eternal damnation and this is done by accepting jesus christ as the son of god and that his crucifixion will redeem you*
this of course is rejected in islam because they see jesus as a messenger of god
>>275289
>>275152
Christianity doesn't kill people who reject it.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/20/saudi-court-sentences-poet-to-death-for-renouncing-islam
>>275995
>God is 1 but manifests himself into 2 other entities (holy spirit and christ)
this can fall under so many heresies I don't know how to respond.
Here, watch a parody youtube cartoon, I think it'll help
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw
>>275152
Christianity is the sequel of the original Jewish religion, and Islam is the reboot.
>>275152
Christianity preaches love and peace and follows the teachings of someone who died to save humanity.
Islam preaches destruction of the infidel at any cost, using any means and follows the teachings of a rapist and warlord.
The Catholic Church banned cousin marriage throughout Europe by the 11th century AD. The Muslim world didn't.
>>276371
Sure they did
>>276401
I wonder what the painter must have thought as he was brushing the canvas
>>276371
What is Habsburg jaw?
>>276015
Again, I didn't even claim Islam wasn't violent, you thick-skulled redneck. I said that Christianity is also violent, and that there are contradictory verses in both religions which condemn aggression.
>>276401
He was the result of marriages between uncles and nieces. Not cousins. Either way his family tree was more of a tumbleweed.
>>275289
>Not really. The Bible is one of the most violent books ever written
Yes, and? Christianity's main source is the new testament, the old testament is only there as a giant-ass prologue to it.
If you want to use that argument against Judaism, that's fine, but in Christianity, Jesus comes after the old testament and says "ok stop pls".
Also, the violent parts of the Old Testament are there as a part of Israeli history, while the Quran isn't just history, it's also about way of life.
Judaism = Dragon Ball
Christianity = Dragon Ball Z
Islam = Dragon Ball GT
>>276535
But Dragon Ball is better than Z
>>275152
Mohammed is a mass murdering lying vengeful child-raping megalomaniac. Christ is God.
The koran is literally gods word as transcribed by an illiterate warlord.
The bible is bunch of books written by men about the life of Jesus.
>>276518
>Yes, and? Christianity's main source is the new testament, the old testament is only there as a giant-ass prologue to it.
Matthew 5:17-18
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."
Even if that argument were true, it's a stupid concept. The timeless Alpha and Omega just changed his mind and decided to go from a God who kills people for collecting sticks on Sunday and kids calling a man "baldy", but once he had a kid he mellowed out and he's a great guy now. Yeah, okay lol.
>Also, the violent parts of the Old Testament are there as a part of Israeli history, while the Quran isn't just history, it's also about way of life.
Judaism isn't a way of life? I hear Christians say "My faith isn't a religion, it's a relationship/way of life" all the fucking time. All religions have prescriptions as to how people should live. This doesn't make Muslims monolithic blocks incapable of divergence.
>Israeli history
Like the Exodus and other shit that never happened.
>>276553
Most of the other prophets besides Jesus were like that too.
>>275152
Islam was founded by Muhammad, a capable warlord, and from day one was very pragmatic religion for everyday life with close connection between religion, politic and law. Muslims started to spread Islam by sword very soon (in theory they can't force anybody to accept Islam, but their conquest was in no way peaceful), and broke up immediately after Muhammads death because political reasons.
Jesus never intended to found a new religion and Christianity started as anti-establishment cult. Some parts of Christianity are interpretation of st. Paul, who never even met Jesus (well, in his lifetime) and wanted to make Christianity more appealing to non-Jews (who e.g. didn't wanted to get their dicks cut). (And his Epistles are probably the oldest part of the New Testament) Early Christians were persecuted and developed strong martyrdom culture and it took several centuries before Christianity became mainstream.
For further development is interesting that Caliph was supposed to both religious and political leader, but in Christian world there was always competition between Pope and Emperor and laws weren't based on religion but on earlier Roman ones or barbaric customary laws.
>>276553
Moses was a murderer too. How does this disprove shit? Just because a murderer says something doesn't make it false.
>>276576
>Even if that argument were true, it's a stupid concept. The timeless Alpha and Omega just changed his mind and decided to go from a God who kills people for collecting sticks on Sunday and kids calling a man "baldy", but once he had a kid he mellowed out and he's a great guy now. Yeah, okay lol.
God gave rules for the Israeli to follow. Then prophets talked of a descendant of David who would come as the king of Israel and unite its people again before spreading the kingdom of God. Jesus came to fulfill that prophecy, while also undoing many of the biblical laws because it's not necessary anymore. It's not rocket science, at least read the Bible if you want to talk about it.
>Judaism isn't a way of life? I hear Christians say "My faith isn't a religion, it's a relationship/way of life" all the fucking time. All religions have prescriptions as to how people should live. This doesn't make Muslims monolithic blocks incapable of divergence.
The Old Testament is about Israeli history, one's relationship with God, prophets, and philosophy. The New Testament is about the teachings of Jesus, one's acts toward others, and one's relationship with God. The Quran is about all these things, plus lifestyle and politics.
>>276576
Also
>Like the Exodus and other shit that never happened.
The Torah is questionable, but books such as Kings, etc. give pretty much pure history, without God being in every sentence. It doesn't mean it definitely happened either, that's not what I said.
>>275152
Islam is a far stronger religion than christianity, mainly but not exclusively because it does not bear the seeds of its own destruction.
>>276591
OP asked for differences - I provided a difference. Take it as you will.
>>276612
>God gave rules for the Israeli to follow.
Yeah, like killing their children for disobedience. Such a heavenly moral standard, certainly not a pointlessly brutal punishment typical of ancient people.
>Then prophets talked of a descendant of David who would come as the king of Israel and unite its people again before spreading the kingdom of God.
>Jesus came to fulfill that prophecy, while also undoing many of the biblical laws because it's not necessary anymore
I know the first part, dipshit. The scripture I quoted explicitly states that none of the old laws are abolished, it mentions nothing about the fulfillment "undoing" any of them. You can play all the mental gymnastics you want, but that's what it says.
I think Christians who argue this are usually disingenuous anyway; they often refer to the Ten Commandments. It's not like the New Testament doesn't contain atrocities and things that are harder to explain away, either. Jesus spoke about how slaves should meekly obey slaveowners.
>It's not rocket science, at least read the Bible if you want to talk about it.
I quoted more evidence than you, buddy. What makes you think I'm not a former Christian?
>The Old Testament is about Israeli history, one's relationship with God, prophets, and philosophy. The New Testament is about the teachings of Jesus, one's acts toward others, and one's relationship with God. The Quran is about all these things, plus lifestyle and politics.
The Old Testament, and to a lesser extent the New Testament, have hundreds of laws and suggestions for how Jews and Christians should live their lives and organize society. True, Islam is much more extensive but it's not like the Bible doesn't mention finances, property, criminal law, domestic life, warfare, disputes, sexuality, dietary practices and plenty of other socio-political prescriptions.
>>276659
A difference between Jesus, sure. But Moses is common to all 3 religions. Not saying you're wrong about Mohammed, mind you.
>>276670
Moses was also part of the Old Covenant, which is not what Christians are bound to, while Mohammed is literally the "perfect" example of how a muslim is to live their life.
>>276678
True, but other Christian prophets were hardly pacifists.
>>276683
But Christians don't follow them as their ultimate example in life, so it's irrelevant.
MEANWHILE MUSLIMS
>>276411
I'd say the inherent difference between the two in terms of violence is that Christianity was started by some wandering preacher whilst Islam was started by a literal warlord.
>>275152
Jesus teaches to aid your fellow man and to turn the other cheek. The Quaran teaches deceit, strike back, and to object people to their rule. This is why when dealing with this people you must bare in mind their mentality is completely different from ours.
>>275152
Greek philosophy, i.e. Neo-Platoism
>>276663
>Such a heavenly moral standard, certainly not a pointlessly brutal punishment typical of ancient people.
One that Christianity abolished, and we're not discussing Judaism's morality here, so you're going off-topic.
>I know the first part, dipshit. The scripture I quoted explicitly states that none of the old laws are abolished, it mentions nothing about the fulfillment "undoing" any of them. You can play all the mental gymnastics you want, but that's what it says.
Matthew 12 - Jesus undoes the sabbath
Mark 7:19 - Jesus declares all food clean
Jesus came not to undo the Torah. He came to say "that's legitimate but that's not required anymore". There's a reason most Jewish people did not accept him as the messiah.
Why you insulting me though, I'm not attacking you, dumbass
>Jesus spoke about how slaves should meekly obey slaveowners.
Can I see that verse?
>The Old Testament, and to a lesser extent the New Testament, have hundreds of laws and suggestions for how Jews and Christians should live their lives and organize society. True, Islam is much more extensive but it's not like the Bible doesn't mention finances, property, criminal law, domestic life, warfare, disputes, sexuality, dietary practices and plenty of other socio-political prescriptions.
Well, the Old Testament anyway. And the Quran, as you said, is much more extensive, with things such as how to treat one's wife for instance.
>>276538
exactly
>>276712
>One that Christianity abolished, and we're not discussing Judaism's morality here, so you're going off-topic.
You're missing the point. It's the same God. It's quite contradictory and concerning to me that he was allegedly once quite a brutal tyrant and did a near-complete 180 on his personality. How does that undo all the bad stuff he did? If a political party in my country had a history of genocide and totalitarianism, I would still be skeptical and hold them responsible for their past actions if they instilled a Gorbachev-esque leader a few years later. But even then, humans are fallible and have more of an excuse for past atrocities. Why was God ever so cruel to begin with?
>Can I see that verse?
1 Peter 2:18
>Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.
Colossians 3:22
>Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.
Ephesians 6:5
>Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
Jesus also calls a Canaanite woman (and presumably her race) a dog in Matthew 15:26
>He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs."
You also mentioned
>Matthew 12
Refers to an exception in the case of severe hunger. Hardly a reason for me to believe he undid all previous OT laws, and even if it did, explain the apparent contradiction in the verse I quoted?
>Mark 7:19 - Jesus declares all food clean
I see only "Jesus declared all food clean" in brackets. He is saying eating unclean food won't deny you salvation or spiritual purity, sure, but again, this is scant evidence that the entirety of the OT is disregarded.
>Why you insulting me though, I'm not attacking you, dumbass
Yeah, sorry about that, it just sounded condescending.
>>275152
Christianity deviates quite a lot from Islam and Judaism because of the holy trinity. The new testament is quite nice as opposed to the old testament and the koran which are extremely violent, no wonder the jews and muslims are as well.
>>276696
Muslims don't, either. Mohammed was not divine or holy.
>>276798
>Muslims don't (follow Mohammed as their ultimate example of how they're to live their lives)
>>276804
Most don't, just like most Christians don't really follow the teachings of Jesus. It's practically a necessity to get by today.
>>276836
>most don't
Then they're not muslims, because to be a muslim you have to follow Islam, and Islam *explicitly requires you* to follow Mohammed and live as he did.
>>276791
I don't have time to reply now, got a train to ride, so I'll be short
God gave harsh laws to the Israelites as a contract between them, and started getting pissed when they bothered to do holocausts and praise God yet didn't follow any of his moral teachings and were actually acting morally worse than the countries around them (according to the prophets)
Then Jesus came as the messiah and gave universal teachings instead, as Israel being God's sole people became unecessary due to the messiah finally being there (but then they killed him lol)
>Peter, Colossians, Ephesians
Admittely I'm not that far into the Bible yet, but aren't those actually not contemporary of Jesus' lifetime at all?
Even then, Jesus himself said that worker and master were on the same level to God, and those who are inferior are actually superior and vice-versa.
As for the dogs thing, you're understanding this in a purely racial context. Israel was God's cherished at the time and everyone else was of lesser importance. Jesus blessing her after this scene actually signifies this is not the case anymore - even a pagan "dog" would get God's blessing if they showed faith.
>>276838
The semantics of words are defined by usage, and since its inception, the meaning of "Muslim" has expanded beyond those with a strict interpretation of the Quran, such as the Sufi. So what it explicitly requires is irrelevant if you discard the concept of needing to follow the Quran at all. Not to mention the written Quran didn't even exist until quite after Mohammed's death, so the idea of sola scriptura or even real accuracy as to the original religious teachings is impossible.
Let's say I concede your point for a moment, though. This means Muslims are quite small a group of the world's population, and that religious people in general are much less common than we consider. Very few people follow their holy texts to the letter, indeed, it's literally impossible if they contain even a single contradiction.
>>276841
>God gave harsh laws to the Israelites as a contract between them, and started getting pissed when they bothered to do holocausts and praise God yet didn't follow any of his moral teachings and were actually acting morally worse than the countries around them (according to the prophets)
How was prescribing the killing of children for disobedience or insulting their parents meant to make the Israelites less bloodthirsty?
>Then Jesus came as the messiah and gave universal teachings instead, as Israel being God's sole people became unecessary due to the messiah finally being there (but then they killed him lol)
Why wait 2000 years. He could have just sent Jesus and inspired the NT to begin with, it probably would have done a better job of discouraging ancient Hebrew atrocities than, you know, commanding the death penalty over trivial shit.
>Admittely I'm not that far into the Bible yet, but aren't those actually not contemporary of Jesus' lifetime at all?
Peter not contemporary to Jesus? Come on.
As for the other two, they're still in the New Testament. Historically, all gospels are considered to have been written decades after Jesus' death.
>>275289
>Not really. The Bible is one of the most violent books ever written, and the history of Christians differs little in bloodshed.
Uh no it isnt, the new testament is like a kiddies play book compared to the koran and torah
>>276841
>As for the dogs thing, you're understanding this in a purely racial context. Israel was God's cherished at the time and everyone else was of lesser importance. Jesus blessing her after this scene actually signifies this is not the case anymore - even a pagan "dog" would get God's blessing if they showed faith.
He called her a dog straight away and only gave her a blessing when she retorted. I don't see why the initial hostility was necessary.
>>276887
El. Oh. El.
http://www.islam-watch.org/SyedKamranMirza/MuhdIdealCharacter.htm
>>276888
>Using Torah synonymously with OT
Oh boy.
Even given the NT, Jesus blabs all on about Hell, bringing a sword instead of peace, dividing families with vividly violent imagery, the imminent and brutal end of the world etc.
>>275152
Correct me if I'm wrong, but both are sects based on the Old Judaism. First was Christianity, that quickly turned into something perverted, and later came Islam (600 years later), because a guy called Muhammad saw that Christianity abandoned its Jew roots. So, to be precise, Islam is more similar to the original Christianity that Christianity of today.
It used to be similar, but all tales change with time. If we're strictly historic (and if we think that the base was real), Mary (Maryam) probably was 12 years old when she started fucking with Joseph. And Jesus must have been blacker than what the western representations suggest.
With the information I have for now, my most plausible theory says that Mary fucked with another guy (teen hormones, you know), and Joseph was some kind of "whiteknight". In that time, Mary probably would have died by lapidation if she were accused of adultery.
>>276896
>B-but the Quran says Mohammed was perfect!
Which isn't a problem if you're a Muslim who rejects the premise of the Quran being infallible in the first place. To say they must be perfectly obedient to scripture because scripture commands them to is circular reasoning and not a given assumption all Muslims share.
>>276900
As I said its like a kiddies book in comparison
>Using Torah synonymously with OT
Why would you do that?
>>276907
Absolutely hilarious.
>>276909
>As I said its like a kiddies book in comparison
I wouldn't read Revelations to my kid. Nice to see you totally gloss over the part where I mention actual Christian history being seeped in blood regardless, just like every other religion.
In Christiany, God is dead, and the habbenings and prophecies are over. You are responsible for your actions.
In Islam, God is responsible for everything so you can do whatever you want as long as you pledge allegiance to him. You're also still in the same Age as the founders of Islam, it's an unbroken line.
>>276913
So you suddenly have no argument once I demonstrate your circular reasoning? Cool.
The oral tradition of Islam predates its written word, by the way.
>>276922
You seem to essentially be saying "well since people don't necessarily follow their own religion, their religion is fine". That's absolutely hilarious - there's nothing else to talk about if you *honestly* believe that.
>>276699
>was started by a literal warlord.
By a merchant/caravaner actually. He became a warlord over the course of his life though but at the beginning he was simply a merchant.
>>276926
It's a reality of life, friend. The majority of religious people don't follow the most strict doctrines.
>>276919
Revelations is hardly 'lets go back to medina and kill everyone'
>>275265
>They insist Alexander the Great was Muslim
Who do? What group does - do you mean all muslims? I don't believe that - give a source.
>>276933
>"Because people don't perfectly follow Islam, Islam is fine and totally not a problem"
Comedy gold.
>>276942
You keep repeating yourself.
Look, there's a difference between criticizing the doctrine and the community of a religion. You either don't seem to be aware of that or purposefully avoiding it.
>>275995
>There is only 1 version of the qur'an
Not really.
>>276948
We're talking about the merits of the religion itself. If someone were a perfect Christian, you'd regard them as a saint. If someone is a perfect muslim, you'd regard them as a psychopathic violent megalomaniac.
You and others trying to defend a faith that would sooner behead you than allow you to exist un-converted is one of many reasons why Western society is breaking down.
http://www.ministeringtomuslims.com/EnglishPages/bookdownloads.html
Jesus and Muhammad Book by Mark A. Gabriel EX-Muslim
>>276926
>You seem to essentially be saying "well since people don't necessarily follow their own religion, their religion is fine"
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that you were using circular reasoning in insisting religious believers must be devout in following scripture because scripture says they must be devout in following scripture, and that defining identities like "Muslim" this way makes the actual group of believers so tiny and narrow as to make the term worthless in everyday conversation.
I'm not making any value judgement that the Quran itself is good. I'm happy most people who identify as Muslim don't follow the Quran to the letter, and I can say the same for most other religions.
>>276937
Ignoring the entire rest of my post and just focusing on one word. Wow, you did it again.
>>276940
It's in the Quran, although yes, that doesn't mean all Muslims believe it.
It's the first result on Google you lazy fuck:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Great_in_the_Quran
>>276965
>That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that you were using circular reasoning in insisting religious believers
I'm not talking about religious believers, I'm talking about *THE RELIGIOUS BELIEF ITSELF* which *DEFINES* who *ACTUALLY* is a muslim and who is not that *INTERNALLY REQUIRES* faith in the "prophet" Mohammed as the perfect example of a human that they're all to emulate. The *religion ITSELF* requires it.
>>276953
You are so lazy.
It's convenient to refer to "A faith", because it allows you to impose both your criticism of doctrine and community on "faith" without having to make a distinction or go into detail.
There's many ways Islam can be criticized but you're obviously not capable of doing so.
I'm also for disallowing sharia courts, veils etc. The point stands.
>is one of the many reasons why Western society is breaking down
lmao
Well, I think YOU are the reason why western society is breaking down. How are you going to defend yourself from this masterfully constructed argument??
>>276022
No that never happened ever
>>276988
>wah stop talking about Islam! Why aren't you attacking people so I can defend them on the grounds that they don't necessarily have to follow their own religion! Why do you have to attack the belief itself waaaaaah
This is so fucking funny.
>>276965
>Nice to see you totally gloss over the part where I mention actual Christian history being seeped in blood regardless, just like every other religion.
The reason I ignored this is because you didnt actually mention anything to do with this at all in any post and even if you did its rather mild in comparison.
>>276997
I agree, it's starting to get a bit absurd.
However justified your criticism may be, you're doing more to discredit it than anyone else.
Have a nice day
>>276970
>I'm not talking about religious believers, I'm talking about *THE RELIGIOUS BELIEF ITSELF* which *DEFINES* who *ACTUALLY* is a muslim
>The *religion ITSELF* requires it.
But there isn't a single "Muslim" belief or unified religion. Beliefs are contained in the minds of believers, and they don't even draw from a single literary tradition. There is the oral tradition and Islamic folklore, which came first. Then there are several different versions of the Quran, along with accompanying texts that may or may not be considered canon like the Hadiths. You and I both agree Islam is fictional, yes? So trying to define "True Islam" is just going to be subjective canon wank, then, because the term "Islam" has come to describe many incompatible and divergent positions without a unified body of authoritative scripture.
Also calm down a bit, m8. You'll live longer.
>>277000
>stop talking about the belief!
>whatever, I'll just declare I'm the victor - that means I win!
Muslim shitters everyone.
>>276998
>you didnt actually mention anything to do with this at all in any post
Oh really, nigger?
>>275289
>The Bible is one of the most violent books ever written
>the history of Christians differs little in bloodshed
I explicitly mentioned the history, and I said the Bible is violent, not that the NT is equally as violent as the Quran.
>>277003
>Sweaty ameritard that is up at night posting anime images and arguing like a 10-year old on the weekend
;)
>>277001
“O you who believe! Answer Allah (by obeying Him) and As His Messenger (obeying him) when he calls you to that which will give you life.”
Go fuck yourself =)
>>277009
;)
>Muslim apologists
Is there anything more pahetic than this?
>>277011
i'm sure muslims all over the world are shaking when they think about YOU coming for them with your personal katana collection and clad in multi-colored plastic animu armor
>>277015
I actually laughed. Thanks m8
>>277014
>If you have any criticism of Islam you have to agree with every single argument attacking it
No. It's important for the sake of the discussion to disagree sometimes. Also, it's a discussion held without a single muslim ever being able to respond. I'd rather appear like a muslim "apologist" (which is not what I actually am) than a mindless /pol/-drone.
>>277021
There is no defense of Islam except not abiding by Islam. What a great "defense" that is.
>>277021
Sure thing, Abu.
What made you think I was talking about you anyway?
>>277004
Not to me you didnt, Im not going to read one of your responses to someone else and you are autistic if you think I will.
And I can also see that you said the bible is one of the most violent books ever when thats beside the point as the new testament is what christanity is all about and as I said its like a kiddies book in comparison. As for the actual history, much of islamic history is forcefully conquering people and killing all pagans while christianity has much more just examples such as the crusader states being created so all faiths have access to the holy land and so all are equal there. Hilariously this was stopped by a muslim.
>>277010
Quoting a specific line of text doesn't refute anything I said about there not being a coherent body of accepted texts within Islam, or the fact that the written Quran is predated by the oral Quran, and the fact that there is more than one variety of Quran, along with different hadiths to accompany it.
>Go fuck yourself =)
And you claim Jesus is your role model?
>Matthew 7:12
>So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
>>277025
I was disagreeing with certain arguments in the thread attacking Islam.
>>277026
>Not to me you didnt, Im not going to read one of your responses to someone else and you are autistic if you think I will.
Well, if you're going to quote me, quote all of it and not just one word, faggot.
>>277031
Fresh anon here. What's your overall stance on the subject?
>>277030
>So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
Whats wrong with this? Do to others what you would have them do to you
>>277021
Nuanced thinking is beyond these people. You either support ISIS or the genocide of all Muslims.
>>277035
Its beside the point anyway, the comparison is between both the books and the faiths and I think its quite safe to say that one is much more a religion of peace than the other.
>>277026
This isn't wrong. However, there are countless muslims in western countries that are fitting in just fine, in fact, they're the biggest consumerist, capitalist whores out there in some parts of Europe. Attacking the backwards elements of Islam is reasonable, attacking more secular-minded muslims along with them is counterproductive.
>>275152
The first is non legalistic, the second is.
>>277030
>Quoting a specific line of text doesn't refute anything I said about there not being a coherent body of accepted texts within Islam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_of_Islamic_Cooperation
I want other people to shit-talk because it builds character. But you wouldn't know anything about character, would you cocksucker? =)
>>277031
Well, that's not really something only an apologist would do, is it? I wouldn't call Ben Affleck a Muslim apologist for example.
>>277037
I never said anything was wrong with it. I was quoting it as an example of how Jesus said his followers should be respectful, yet he claims to be a Christian and he's throwing around petty insults.
If Muslims who don't emulate Mohammed aren't true Muslims, then Praceteom is a pretty bad Christian.
>>276401
kek
>>277036
I think Islam should be denied any entry into the political realm. Shariah courts, private marriage rites, anything like that should be stricly forbidden. Police forces should be given enough power to observe more suspicious elements and more radical Imams etc. They should be brought to court if they incite violence or anything of the sort.
Islam is the shittiest religion, undoubtedly. This, however, doesnt justify stupid and barbaric arguments or measures against it.
>>277044
>formed in the 19th century
>has nothing to do with the caliphate
>has no actual religious authority and just represents political co-operation between mainstream Muslims
>disputes with member and non-member states
>Somehow an objective and universal representation of Islam since the 700s
Okay, buddy.
>>277045
Some people undoubtedly would. It may be obvious, but from reading some of the posts in the thread I feel it is nontheless necessary.
>>277050
And migration, or assimilation?
>>277050
Sharia courts are troublesome, although hardly a widespread as people believe. The redhaired convert posting up yellow flyers saying SHARIA CONTROLLED ZONE was just some fat fuckwit putting up posters and had no power or authority at all.
>>277050
Are you Turkish?
>>277053
The muslim states under that produce doctrine for the whole muslim world. It's not unlike Catholicism in that respect. And they rule what Islam is to be - as it just so happens, the vast majority of muslims subscribe to *THEIR* "version" of Islam. And it's abhorrent. Islam is abhorrent and should be intellectually raped wherever it's brought up.
>>277041
>However, there are countless muslims in western countries that are fitting in just fine, in fact, they're the biggest consumerist, capitalist whores out there in some parts of Europe. Attacking the backwards elements of Islam is reasonable, attacking more secular-minded muslims along with them is counterproductive.
There are no large groups of muslims living peacefully in the west except most of the bosnians who are living in their own state exclusively with those who they get along with, their country is even partitioned along these lines. The majority of those who move to the west are wahhabists and salafists looking to practice their religion where they can do so more strictly than in their own country. Islam is backwards in regards to western civilisation and as long as it is it can never be practiced even moderately without contradicting it. Secular muslims are a minority who might as well not exist.
>>277046
I would say christianity isnt about completely emulating what jesus did, merely following his example. I do agree the less that the less you follow it the less you are of a good christian, but thats more of a slope and less black and white.
>>277057
Controlled immigration has never been a problem. The solution has always been to slow the intake down and give incentives to assimilate. I don't think this is different with Muslim immigrants.
>>275265
>Islam considers all men "sons of God"
No.
As-salamu alaykum to all my brothers in this thread and a beautiful song about a Muslim's love to the Prophet (peace be upon him).
http://youtu.be/yvgFuOAmhZU
>>277065
Even if economic limbo could be solved without a hunger for growth and a desperate need for aggregate demand, what comprises controlled immigration?
>>276951
currently there is only 1 version adhered to by virtually every muslim but historically you're right there have been a lot of versions of the quran before uthman caliph burned all qurans that he deemed to be unauthentic.
I highly doubt the quran in it's current version is the uthmanic compilation though since there are manuscripts as the sana'a manuscripts that are dated post caliph uthman's death, and shows quite a number of variants with the current quran. Still though, there is only one version of the quran being followed as of right now and altering it even by one arabic letter is disallowed.
>>277062
>The muslim states under that produce doctrine for the whole muslim world
Before you were saying the Quran is the only legitimate Muslim authority, and divergence from it meant you weren't a true Muslim. I hardly see the verse where the Quran predicts and sanctifies this governing body that was created in the 1800s.
>It's not unlike Catholicism in that respect.
Actually, no, the equivalent to the Roman Catholic church would be the caliphate led by the caliph, which has traditionally divided Muslims since merely a generation or two after Mohammed's death.
>And they rule what Islam is to be - as it just so happens, the vast majority of muslims subscribe to *THEIR* "version" of Islam.
The organization you cited doesn't espouse a single version of Islam, and it doesn't dish out doctrine either. It's political and exists for diplomatic purposes concerning Muslim people. Scripture is another thing entirely.
>Islam is abhorrent and should be intellectually raped wherever it's brought up.
The religion should be criticized, yes. But according to you, 99% of these people aren't Muslims anyway. Do you have any idea how popular alcohol is in Egypt?
>>277061
No
>>277064
It depends. I certainly agree that Islamic thought often clashes with democratic values, but this is also a problem of Arab culture. Iranian shiites are fitting in fine wherever they go, for example. Everything beyond this is a problem of executive control over extremism and effectively protecting secular elements to promote their way of thinking. Again, it's a difficult situation, but anything is better than killing, deporting or strongly discriminating against millions of people that are already more or less part of the European populace.
>>277081
>Before you were saying the Quran is the only legitimate Muslim authority
Bro, I'm fine with *EITHER*, because *EITHER* of them are *VILE*.
>which has traditionally divided Muslims
Into two groups of violent women-raping murderous pedophiles with hundreds of millions of adherents. TIPPITY-TOP KEK.
>>275265
>Islam has no trinity and God is not personified, they prefer to keep Allah strictly abstract.
false
>Salvation by faith is not accepted in Islam, one's good deeds are weighed against the bad.
false
>>276940
Dhul qarnayn, a ruler who is said in the quran to have imprisoned the people of gog and magog on the order of god. There are are differing opinions on who this figure was in history with some saying he was alexander.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhul-Qarnayn
>>277090
embarrassing post
>>277075
>currently there is only 1 version adhered to by virtually every muslim
This is wrong. Hafs and Warsh are the two main existing varieties. There are significant differences between them.
http://www.inet.ba/~hardy/differences.htm
Not to mention they can both be split into the older and younger "qurans" that were joined together, written in Mecca and Medina respectively. Even THEN, they were non-chronological compilations of oral Surahs that were remembered through repetition and mnemonic devices
>>277095
Great argument brah. Islam is the religion of peace!
>>277090
>Bro, I'm fine with *EITHER*, because *EITHER* of them are *VILE*.
I think you seem to be missing my point, yet again. I am not, and was never, defending the morality of Islamic scriptures. I specifically said I thought they were violent, illogical and self-contradicting. I am criticizing your logical inconsistency and circular reasoning in saying "There's only ONE true type of Islam" and "Muslims must obey X variant of scripture because X variation of Islam claims to be absolute truth". You seem unable to untangle these two basic concepts in your mind.
>Into two groups of violent women-raping murderous pedophiles with hundreds of millions of adherents. TIPPITY-TOP KEK.
Yeah, those Sufi sure are brutal.
>>277111
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TAAw3oQvg
>>277111
There IS only one Islam by the by. Both the caliphate and the muslim books say that - pick your poison.
Go to bed, tripfag.
>>277099
>Islam is the religion of peace!
I never heard Muslims say this.
>>277119
>not filtering tripfags
>>277124
I have.
>>277124
I've seen some say this on the Internet.
>>277128
You're obviously in constant contact with the outside world, most of all Muslims. ;))
>>277134
I graduated from a large university in which I encountered many muslims, yes indeed.
>>277142
>bad arguments against Islam
The argument that Islam is violent is a bad one, even though in all "version" of Islam the "prophet" Mohammed is to be taken as the end-all-be-all example of human behavior, and Mohammed was incontrovertibly violent.
Yeah. Cool story Abdul.
>>277150
Again, I didn't disagree that Islam is violent. That's a proposition, not an argument. Your argument posited the Organization of Islamic Co-operation as if it were the caliphate, which is laughable to anyone who even read the Wikipedia page and isn't considered a scriptural authority by any Muslims whatsoever.
>>277160
>Your argument posited the Organization of Islamic Co-operation as if it were the caliphate
Nah, read the words again faggot.
>The muslim states under that produce doctrine for the whole muslim world
"Muslim states" is the subject. You have the reading comprehension of the average Jamal.
"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognise them. Do people pick grapes from thorn-bushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognise them". - Sermon at the Mount
"Allah turned back the unbelievers in a state of rage, having not won any good, and Allah spared the believers battle. Allah is, indeed, Strong and Mighty. And He brought those of the People of the Book [Qurayza] who supported them from their fortresses and cast terror into their hearts, some of them you slew and some you took captive. And he bequeathed to you their lands, their homes and their possessions, together with land you have never trodden. Allah has power over everything." - The slaughter of the Qurayza tribe
That's the difference.
>>277165
>Nah, read the words again faggot.
Sure.
>The muslim states under that produce doctrine for the whole muslim world. It's not unlike Catholicism in that respect.
It's completely different as they don't release new scripture and imams are more like decentralized preachers than obedient to any kind of unified "catholic church", which is what the caliphate would be if sunni and shia weren't totally split over the method of succession. Even then, you don't seem to understand what the sunnah is. You pretty much have no idea what you're talking about.
>>277096
Methods of pronunciation and recitation =! versions of the quran.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3YSj0rP7L0
also, that link is dead
>>277171
jesus himself is a false mesiah/prophet himself. If he was not he wouldn't have been rejected by the jews.
no prophet ever comes out of galilee
>>277196
>It's completely different
>caliphate
>completely different
You're talking absolute nonsense.
>>275995
The New Testament takes priority over the old
It's literally "god correcting his previous self"
If you don't follow the word of Jesus then you aren't a Christian you're a jew
>>277206
>"god correcting his previous self"
what kind of a god is that top kek
>>276838
>Islam *explicitly requires you* to follow Mohammed and live as he did.
False.
Living like Mohammad (like how he grew a beard and told others to do the same) is considered a good deed in islam but is not a part of the law. He is shown as an example of a 'great person', but qoran explicitly states that no person is, or can be flawless, since being flawless is an attribute only allah has.
>>277203
A collective diplomatic organization with member states is nothing like a scriptural authority. Yeah, they're similar in the same way that apples and oranges are "similar", but you're treating them as interchangeable when there's nothing official about the OoIC religiously, only politically.
>>277210
That the theology for ya
>>277198
I didn't say that they were separate versions, but they introduce ambiguity as to the contents of the original oral Quran and its correlation with the modern written one.
Yeah, I'm not trusting an obviously biased Muslim telepreacher on the subject.
>>277220
>False.
You *ARE* required to hold Mohammed as the ultimate example. You may not have to perfectly do everything he does as a matter of divine command, but you *MUST* recognize him as the *END ALL BE ALL* of humans.
"To begin with, the Quran describes Muhammad as al-nabi al-ummi or unlettered prophet (Quran 7:158), meaning that he "received his religious knowledge only from God". As a result, Muhammad’s examples have been understood by the Muslims to represent the highest ideal for human conduct, and to reflect what God wants humanity to do."
>>277206
>The New Testament takes priority over the old
yea that's kinda what I meant, if jesus didn't abrogate parts of the OT then they (if im not mistaken) are allowed to follow it since it's still considered canon.
>>277226
>A collective diplomatic organization with member states is nothing like a scriptural authority
I'm not and have never been talking about the OIC you vapid cunt, I'm talking about all those Islamic states that fall happen to BELONG to it. Your JAMAL is showing.
>>277062
If you've already made up your mind on the subject, why are you still arguing about it?
>>277249
Because there are people trying to defend Islam in this thread even though it's indefensible, and they need to either change their minds or else be mocked and ridiculed for supporting something that's absolutely abominable.
>>277253
I have ongoing conversations with people on this board and /pol/ - I'm not dropping the trip because its presence makes you upset.
>>277239
>what is sunnah and fard
You obviously have no islamic background. What you hear on /pol/ is not always the accurate answer to a question.
>>277262
Now you sound like a fedora tipper.
>>277269
Islam is abhorrent - I don't honestly care what I get labeled as for despising it.
>>277266
why do you use trip in firstplace? besides attention whoring
>>277266
This is why people hate /pol/. Not because they don't agree with your views, but because you people are the most obnoxious assholes on this board. You have singlehandedly derailed a thread where muslims, atheists and christians were having a peaceful discussion with your shitposting.
>>277289
I literally just said why in the previous post.
>>277247
The states don't dispense scripture, either, nor are they unified on it. Get it right you vapid cunt.
>>277300
bullfuckingshit what ongoing conversation
fuck off attention whore, stop using this board like a forum with usen accounts.
>>277290
He derails every thread he posts in.
>>277311
Caliphate dispense scripture. The states are under the caliphate.
>>277314
Go fuck yourself =)
>>277326
Serious question, are you autistic?
>>277330
Serious question, are you a faggot?
What a worthless thread.
>>277234
>I didn't say that they were separate versions
Then why did you twice disagree with me when I said there's only 1 version.
>they introduce ambiguity as to the contents of the original oral Quran and its correlation with the modern written one.
No one knows what the original quran exactly looked like and the modern one may not even be the one uthman compiled however they hardly introduce any ambiguity, arabic speakers can read both of them and still not recognize which is which.
>Yeah, I'm not trusting an obviously biased Muslim telepreacher on the subject.
i'm not asking you to trust him (he's obviously biased yes), but disregarding an argument due to the quality of the presenter is a fallacy in itself. He's basically echoing points from scholars on the subject anyway.
>>275152
Christianity learnt how to adapt and integrate itself in modern society by cherry-picking the good parts of its holy book and ignoring the bad ones, Islam did not.
>>277340
>Then why did you twice disagree with me when I said there's only 1 version.
There's more than one version, but we can't speak on how different the current written versions and premodern oral version are.
>>277341
What bad parts are there in the New Testament, exactly?
>>277323
Again, WHAT caliphate?
>>277349
they're all the same to him, he's just using buzzwords at this point.
>>277349
The Ahmadiyya caliphate, the ISIL one, the one of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi.
>>277361
I know, it's like arguing with a schizophrenic.
>>277344
For example you should be put to death for eating shrimps, shaving your beard and wearing clothes of mixed fabric.
>>277374
What part of the words "New Testament" were confusing to you?
>>277374
Nvm, somehow read old testament. In the new one however, you're still getting tortured for eternity (which is pretty long) for not accepting Jesus in your heart or whatever. If you were a loving father, would you torture your own son on the basement for eternity because he didn't love you?
>>277364
>mentions 2 different caliphates
>ignore sufi caliphates
>just neglect the irrelevant OIC I mentioned before!
>"Islam is unified guys!"
>>277387
>you're still getting tortured for eternity
You're not being tortured, you're in a state of torture that is being apart from God. You have the option of living with God in paradise or living without God in hell; you think anyone is supposed to sympathize with your indignation that walking off a cliff hurts you when you're shown the path to safety and you chose to go off the cliff anyway?
>>277398
I never said Islam is unified, but why would that deter you from shit-posting in defense of Islam? I said there is one Islam, not one interpretation of Islam. Just like there's one Christianity but multiple interpretations of Christianity. But guess what the difference is? Most "interpretations" of Islam get your murder, death, and rape, while most "interpretations" of Christianity get the opposite. Absolutely HILARIOUS BRAH
>>277380
Matthew 15:4, Jesus re-iterates the OT principle of putting disobedient children to death and criticizes the Jews for not following it
>For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
And again in Mark 7:10
>For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
And yes, the words "full well" in preceding verses are considered by scholars to be sarcastic and critical.
>>277401
How is God apart from hell when he created everything? Also, being omniscient, he knows already what you're gonna do and what will your fate be: in fact, he knew since before he even created you, so if you end up in hell he's the only one to blame for it.
>>277425
Read the whole passages you snake fucker.
>>277435
>How is God apart from hell when he created everything?
Because He's omnipotent, and make things apart from Himself.
You're also implying determinism. Nobody is a Calvinist here.
>>277414
>I never said Islam is unified
It's what you've been saying this whole time. You're just backpedaling now.
>why would that deter you from shit-posting in defense of Islam?
I'm not defending Islam, I'm criticizing you and your hysterical and contradictory ways of thinking.
>I said there is one Islam, not one interpretation of Islam
Oh, I thought they weren't Muslims? Make up your mind.
>But guess what the difference is? Most "interpretations" of Islam get your murder, death, and rape, while most "interpretations" of Christianity get the opposite.
History isn't short of atrocities committed by the Catholic Church, Orthodoxy, Anglicans or Protestants. Violence is universal to humans.
>>277449
>It's what you've been saying this whole time
HA. *QUOTE ME* FAGGOT.
>>277442
>if I vaguely insinuate you're wrong it makes you wrong durrhurrr
Jesus was scalding them for disregarding tradition and cited that law as valid in how they deserve to be treated.
>>277455
Here, let me quote THE WHOLE PASSAGE to make it BLINDLY OBVIOUS why you're wrong.
Matthew MOTHERFUCKING 15:4
>3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’[a] and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’[b] 5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites!
Mark MOTHERFUCKING 7:10
>8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”
9 And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe[c] your own traditions! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’[d] and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’[e] 11 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)— 12 then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother. 13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”
Insipid cunt.
>>277446
If God doesn't know your future, he's not omniscient; if God can't stop himself from giving you eternal torture, he's either not omnipotent or not moral.
>>277459
>There IS only one Islam by the by
I already *SAID* that you fucking cocksucker.
>I never said Islam is unified, but why would that deter you from shit-posting in defense of Islam? I said there is one Islam, not one interpretation of Islam
HOW MANY DICKS DO YOU SUCK JAMAL?
>>277464
God does know your future, but that doesn't mean you don't have free will, and God isn't obligated to stop you from sending yourself to hell. Lol @ the invocation of "moral". You're immoral if you put yourself in hell.
>>277462
Yes, he's criticizing them for disregarding the commandments of God, one of which is killing children for disobedience, for their recent tradition. He's not disregarding the mosaic law whatsoever.
>>277471
How can you have free will if you act according to how you were created and to your own experiences, all of which were already known to God at the moment you were created?
>>277466
>not one interpretation of Islam
Oh, but there IS only one, according to you. Others aren't Muslim: >>276838
>Then they're not muslims, because to be a muslim you have to follow Islam
>>277117
>There IS only one Islam
>>275168
The Torah and Bible are divinely inspired.
Not written by God.
Also Mohammed didn't write the Koran
>>276906
gee i wonder
>>276920
>In Christiany, God is dead
I think you missed something
The main differences I see are these:
1.
Christianity is revolutionary in the history of religions as it is written from the perspective of the persecuted and is fundamentally non-violent, and reveals that violence comes not from God but from Man.
Islam on the other hand is a return to primitive sacrificial religion, written from the perspective of the persecutors, where violence is once again justified and emanates from a violent God.
2.
The New Testament is written by men merely guided by the Holy Ghost or testifying on events they witnessed.
The Koran is the word of God and thus beyond question.
3.
The Gospel is primarily a philosophical work, which reveals the true nature of violence and human society, while offering a path to break that cycle.
The Koran is primarily judicial, it establishes laws to build a society on assorted with violent punishment, neither of which can be questioned.
4.
Christianity evolved into forming a clergy which has authority on the interpretation of texts and on religious practice.
Islam has no clergy, only the word of God as recorded in the Koran has any authority.
>>277636
>Islam has no clergy
it does though, they're called mullahs
>>277736
No, "mullah" is just a title used for men who are educated in Islamic law, nothing to do with a clergy.
Doesn't matter, God doesn't exist anyways. Check'em.
>>277777
>>275219
Is Anglicanism objectively the best denomination of Christianity?
>>277003
I would not have believed, that such buttmad christonazis are posting at 4chan in this day and age.
>>275152
In the bible, all the old testament fire and brimstone shit is in the beginning and gets overridden by Jesus's new testament teachings of love at the end.
In the quran, all the "religion of peace" stuff is in the beginning and gets abrogated by the bloodthirsty warlord stuff at the end.
>>277021
/ thread
>>277037
Man, you are unintelligent. Go away.
>>277777
Well, quints don't lie
>>277050
>honestly making the sharia court argument
>>277062
Stop arguing. I followed al of this discussion and with thos post you show how dishonest you are,
"Christian".
>>277090
Losing the argument in without style
>>277589
What?
>>277072
Figuratively, dipshit.
>>277091
>Islam has no trinity and God is not personified, they prefer to keep Allah strictly abstract.
>False
Give me an example, because EVERY faggot I've seen dispute this pulls out some lousy 'right hand of Allah" verse that's clearly not meant to be literal in context.
>Salvation by faith is not accepted in Islam, one's good deeds are weighed against the bad.
>false
Well, faith matters, but they certainly don't believe in sola fide. Although technically you are correct, it is Allah's grace, but that will generally be bestowed upon those with good works.
>>277091
okay care to explain if possible what's the truth?
>>275341
No, no, you've got it all wrong. It's:
Islam bad.
Christianity also bad (though not *quite* as violent, at least in recent years)
>>276926
Tripfags are such stupid fucking redditors. Your ass-terisks do not do anything here, retard.
>>276022
Maybe not now, for the most part, but in the Middle Ages they sure did.
>>275289
>The Koran explicitly says "you shall not be aggressors", although like any religion it contradicts itself. You think people can't pull out fanatical and violent Biblical verses?
Doctrine of Abrogation. The stuff added to the Quran last takes precedence when you find contradictions, and unfortunately with Islam it's all the violent stuff that has supreme precedents.
>>276791
>Paul is Jesus
>>276907
>Which isn't a problem if you're a Muslim who rejects the premise of the Quran being infallible in the first place.
If you're a Muslim, then you believe that the Quran was dictated by a fucking angel. Angels have no free will and are therefore infallible.
>>279010
>If you're a Muslim, then you believe that the Quran was dictated by a fucking angel. Angels have no free will and are therefore infallible.
Based on what, the Quran? Can you fags not see the circular logic in scriptural infallibility like this? If a Muslim rejects that the premise that the modern Quran is infallible, of course they can validly reject parts of Quranic scripture that call it infallible. Some Islamic scholars even deny the existence of Djinn and shit, and Sufism eschews literalism entirely in favor of Quranic esotericism and mysticism. There is nothing inherent in believing Mohammed was a prophet of God that necessitates the modern Quran (or any Quran) was the infallible word of God and has remained uncorrupted, understood and properly translated since its inception. The Baha'i faith also accept Mohammed as a prophet and have an esoteric interpretation of the Quran compared to Muslims while still considering it the word of God.
>>278664
We're living now, not the Middle Ages. Your post just proves muslims are backwards and need to be kept out of Europe.
Christianity is true.
Islam is false.
>>279921
>Can you fags not see the circular logic in scriptural infallibility like this?
note - all religions are in the realm of self proving assertions, ie. they are true because their followers claim they are true and point to such proofs as other followers also saying they are true
see the problem ?
>>279949
No, I don't see a problem, because you're still tacitly assuming that a religious believer necessarily accepts the premise that his holy scripture is infallible. With all religions being transmitted and preserved orally as well as by holy texts, there is no fundamental reason that a believer must think scripture is more valid than "folk religion" or his personal interpretation. I'm aware believers are prone to the fallacy of scriptural circular reasoning, but there's no reason a believer has to accept it anymore than a non believer. Identifying with a religion, its philosophy, traditions and principles does not necessitate rigid adherence to scripture, which makes up only one part of the phenomenon we call religion. You can say "they're not true believers, then" but that's what EVERY sect and schism says over differing opinions and interpretations.
>>275332
>pic
I'm dying over here, spare me
Islam is retarded. Pictures of Muhammad are banned, but at the same time they love their calligraphic depictions of his name.
And naming your firstborn after him is fine as well for some reason.
Even though the reason for no pictures was set up so the muslims worship allah instead of the prophet himself
>>275304
>Muslims are even invading Mormon territory
>>277117
Jesus, what an indoctrinated retard.
Want to shre more of your bloody ignorance with us?
>>277290
/thread
