So what would have happened if the Rashidun failed to expand outside the Arabian peninsula?
I know this is a strange what if scenario and with how far back it was an how important the events were this would be a radical change, but I want to hear what you think would happen.
>>394150
The world would be a much better place. Not even because
>Muh muslims
but because the loss or damage of Coptic, berber, Aramaic, zoroastrian, yemenite and byzantine cultures were all tragic.
>>394150
Islam had already spread to east africa and north africa through dawah
>>394162
A lot of the philosophical and scientific contributions of those cultures were preserved (and even built upon) by both Muslim and Catholic scholars during the middle ages, so I wouldn't go that far - and even if Byzantium somehow survived until present day, its culture would have changed greatly, as all cultures do over time.
Also keep in mind that the Ottomans, Seljuks, and many other Muslim empires were in fact Turkic nomads who half-heartedly embraced Islam as they conquered into the Muslim world. Those same peoples would have likely attempted the same conquests regardless of religion; if anything, Islam was a vehicle through which turks could acculturate themselves toward the west.
>>394162
Actually the Sassanids were destroying themselves in civil wars brought about by the weakened Sassanid Empire that came out of their shitfights with Rome.
Its what made Islam attractive to the region. It had stability in a sea of instability.
>>394150
Perhaps the Byzantine Empire, or at least the eastern parts would have succumbed to revolt and rebellion, similar to the Sasanian empire. Both were terribly exhausted from their decades long conflict and many accounts describe how the lands taken by the Rashidun caliphate welcomed the new conquerers so disgruntled and so much did they hate the Byzantine/Sasanid policies. It might have been possible that those areas would have broken away and joined up with the caliphate anyway in some political/strategic/economic union.
The Mongols would have been Zoroastrians when they came to kill everyone instead.
>>394468
>Mongols were muslim when they invaded
dude what
>>394471
I didn't say Genghis Khan, faggot. Three of the four khanates were muslim.
>>394162
>Coptic
Copts were hugely repressed by the Byzantines. They welcomed the muzzies with open arms m8
I forget the source, but it's recorded that Caliph Umar said:
"I wish there was a wall of fire between us and the Romans, so that nor we can cross into their land neither they could in ours."
It's also said that the Islamic conquest of Persia was a defensive war as well. After high numbers of subjects in their vassal's court (Lakhmids), they attacked the Caliphate. The Muslims then conquered and annexed up to the Zagros mountains, but let the Sassanids retreat. Their pride damaged, they attacked again but where thereafter fully annexed by the Caliphate.
>>394475
Fuck no. They BECAME Muslim after the Khaganate broke up. Like centuries later. Hell, the Ilkhanate, which became Muslim later, was responsible for razing Baghdad and erasing the Abbasid Caliphate.
The only khanate that could be said to be Muslim during the Mongol invasion period was the Golden Horde.
>>394490
Why are there so many stories of this kind of thing during the muslim conquests? You hear about it with Jews, different sects of Christianity, other minority type peoples in the areas the early muslims conquered.
>>394521
Why is it surprising? If a population is repressed by their government, its natural that they'd seek outside help. Same thing happened with the Qara Khitai Christians and Genghis.
>>394511
>look at that picture
>realize how only the names on the map have changed
>Syria and Egypt are still oriented to Eastern Europe
>Iraq and Eastern Saudi Arabia are still Iranian proxies
>Saudi Arabia is still a backward shithole of semi-warring tribes
>>394532
I don't know it's just odd.
It doesn't seem like the muslims spread by the sword as much as were just invited in to be the new management.
>>394545
Its basically christaboos on here that claim the ERE dindu nuffin, when in actual fact they were every bit as repressive to heretical sects as the Arabs would be later.
Human shittiness to people they disagree with is universal.
>>394566
>medieval christians
>convert or die
You mean converting pagans or converting Muslims?
How did Muslims react to pagans?
>>394566
>convert or pay extra tax
Only applied to Chritians and Jews. Pagans were convert or die/flee as well
>>394570
>You mean converting pagans or converting Muslims?
Mainly other Christians.
>>394576
You mean Catholics and Orthodox? I don't believe those guys tried to convert each other actively let alone with the threat of force.
>>394590
Remember the during the Medieval era, Catholics and Orthodox still viewed each other as members of the same church. I'm talking about other Christian sects, like Cathars, Nestorians, Copts, etc.
>>394601
Nestorians and Copts were not really present in Europe were they? My knowledge is limited.
>>394162
>but because the loss or damage of Coptic, berber, Aramaic, zoroastrian, yemenite and byzantine cultures were all tragic.
Shitty stagnant old cultures you mean.
>>394620
No, but they lived in Orthodox-controlled areas in Africa and the Levant.
>>394521
Because contrary to popular Opinion the medieval Muslims didnt want converts, they just wanted to rule and they ruled quite fairly for medieval people.
>>394624
Ah okay, how were they trained by the Byzantines? There are still a few Christian Syrians around aren't there?
>>394635
Byzantines were pretty oppressive to non Orthodox sects
>>394150
i think those two would slowly recover and try to bash each other as they did before until another force comes and join, maybe the turk from the east
>>394623
>Shitty stagnant old cultures you mean.
Responsible for practically all the administrative, bureaucratic, and architectural contributions well in to Abbasid caliphate.
Islamic Golden Age largely due to Persians, Converts, and Christian Monks.
>>394623
Yeah that brown arabic-speaking mass that have no national identity to base a state on besides "muslim" is better
