Why was Aztec religion so fucking nightmarish?
We all have our war gods and gruesome stories but gods that are threatening to destroy the world unless you constantly feed them rivers of blood is horrific.
How do you even maintain a society built on such a ghoulish spiritual foundation?
And they're still like that, the murder rates in Mexico and central America (a side question, why isn't Mexico considered central America?) are through the roof, the cartels use chainsaws and razor wire as execution tools and even after they converted to catholicism they had to come up with macabre shit like Santa Muerte. Those retards literally worship the grim reaper.
Their stone age level of development combined with their high population, just imagine human sacrifice proto-juadism and germanicism with china's population levels
>>1414971
I think it has to be genetic or something, it's no coincidence their descendants are ultra violent to this day even though their culture and technologic level is completely different.
Like the ancient Jews and Romans were downright appaled because some Phoenicians threw some babies into the fire when no one was looking, meanwhile the Aztecs and Mayans slaughtered people by tens of thousands every year with the entire city cheering like crazy. Even their sports were grim shit when players were dropping dead on the field because the game was so brutal and after the game they just sacrificed the losing team to the gods.
>>1414962
They literally had a god who wore human skins like fucking Buffalo Bill jesus christ it's like a religion made up by a high school goth kid
>>1414951
>>1414962
First of all, not knowing basic shit like why Mexico isn't considered "Central America" borderline disqualifies you from the discourse. Secondly the Aztecs at their height still killed a smaller percentage of their population than, say, England at the time, who would excecute people at the drop of a hat under the guise of "justice".
>>1414999
My mother (we're Mexican-descended) always explained away the insane violence and brutality in Mexico as 'we're descended from the Aztecs'.
I never really noticed any particularly high levels of aggression in my own family but goddamn, I guess through-the-roof murder rates don't lie.
>>1415002
>First of all, not knowing basic shit like why Mexico isn't considered "Central America" borderline disqualifies you from the discourse.
I'm genuinely curious, why is Mexico not considered Central America? Geographically there's either North American or just American continent, yet for some reason we consider Honduras and Guatemala "central" while Mexico is "northern". They are both mostly mestizos, they both speak Spanish, both are heavily catholic and very poor. I don't get it.
>>1414962
Nigger, they worshiped God who only made it rain if they tortured & murdered screaming children beyond the point of shedding tears
There was another who liked to have newlyweds tied up and lit on fire
Brutal environments such as deserts & tundra tend to create dark, cruel, merciless mythology
Look how grim Inuit, Semitic, and Norse lore are
>the world is full of hostile spirits and nobody will save us
>the gods created us to be their slaves and if we don't obey they'll kill us all, and then send us to an eternity of gloom. O yeah and demons are everywhere but the gods wont help
>The gods are jerkoffs who will wind up letting the entire universe be destroyed by demons
>>1415002
>Secondly the Aztecs at their height still killed a smaller percentage of their population than, say, England at the time, who would excecute people at the drop of a hat under the guise of "justice".
This is simply not true. At the height of their empire, Aztecs sacrificed around 30k people a year. Now consider the fact they were a stone age civilization with no firearms or artillery, such a crazy rate of senseless murder is downright unprecedented.
>>1415020
Because mexico is first world and white duh
IIRC Aztec society developed after American collapse of 800-1200 that destroyed most of the societies in the Americas. So like, imagine a society that evolved out of Lord Humongous gang but fueled by maize instead of gasoline.
(for you kids out there, replace Lord Humongous with Immortan Joe)
>>1415024
No meme answers please.
>this thread
No wonder the Aztecs converted to Catholicism. If someone came around and told me there was an alternative to the gory, Lovecraft-tier horror story that was my people's religion, I'd take it in a heartbeat.
Christian missionaries always say the gods of other peoples are demons, but in the case of the Aztecs I can really believe it.
>>1415023
>senseless murder
Actually it wasn't senseless to them because "religion lol."
Plus I'm sure that a lot of the people were sacrificed more to terrorize the populace and get rid of undesirables. Like how the Spartans did The Purge every year to terrorize the Helots.
>>1415022
Well talking about Semites, a huge point of the Bible is that Moses and Joshua destroyed the Canaanites because they were sacrificing children to pagan gods. So even a backwards desert nomadic tribe like the ancient Hebrews realized that shit is wrong.
>>1415046
I wouldn't say it's a huge point.
Yahweh commanded the Hebrews to slaughter Canaanite children anyway, so it's a bit of a glass houses situation.
>>1414951
Its really no worse than most other relgions.
>>1415037
Keep in mind that most of the people in Mesoamerica hated the Aztecs.
This is why the Spanish had such an easy time conquering them. Because all of their neighbors cooperated as much as they could.
>>1415052
He did command them to slaughter, but not to sacrifice them. That's a world of difference. The entire point of the story about Abraham and Isaac is rejecting human sacrifice in favor of animal one.
>>1415046
>all while massacring men, women, and children mercilessly on the orders of their world destroying, baby killing God of war
Semites are cunts
This is why I like Hindu myths
The Gods actually care about mankind and abhor cruelty
>>1415056
To be clear they hated the aztecs because they were cunts.
Not religion.
Their religions we similar.
>>1414951
Okay forgive me if I'm wrong but I recall hearing that the aztecs and pretty much everyone in the general vicinity were close to starvation when the spanish arrived. If that's the case then it's no surprise that they would be going apeshit with the sacrifices.
>>1415063
That's just a justification for war / conquest. The commies said "liberation of the workers", the nazis said "advancement of the Aryan race", Americans said "spreading democracy", etc. The Jewish commandments even speak about being hospitable to foreigners as long as they're not hostile rather than gathering them all up and sacrificing them to some sun god.
>ITT: people with a high-school tier understanding of a religion judge it based on the morality of their own culture, which is completely alien to the religion and its morals in question
>>1415103
>because morality doesn't exist objectively, it means we're not allowed to judge anything
>>1414951
>Why was Aztec religion so fucking nightmarish?
It wasn't, you're either reading spanish biased chronicles or blindly seeing the superficial aspect of such a complex tradition from a modern POV, you can be sure aztecs didn't sacrifice captives out of an evil or torturous desire.
>>1414962
Isn't Mexico fighting a war against drug cartels right now? Brazil and Venezuela have similar homicide rates iirc.
>>1414951
>How do you even maintain a society built on such a ghoulish spiritual foundation?
by being badass fucking aztecs
>>1415023
>this is simply not true
>now, to change the subject...
Really though, show me proof that Aztec society in 1500 was more brutal than the major European players at the time.
>>1415020
Mexico owned California until fairly recently for one.
If you look at a map "central america" really starts at the yucatan. Now that Mexico is a shithole however, it's been included in "central america" more often.
>>1414951
I was about to defend Aztec sacrifice but holy shit
>>1415022
>Brutal environments such as deserts & tundra
Protip: the Aztecs lived in rain forest areas
>>1415398
Rainforests can be pretty brutal. Tons of disease, rain, giant predators....
>>1415167
>sacrifice by starvation in a cave
>sacrifice of a decapitated young woman to Toci, she was skinned and a young man wore her skin
>extraction of the heart
>extraction of the heart
>extraction of the heart
>extraction of the heart
It's like the Aztecs and their gods should be the villains fought by a plucky band of heroes in a fantasy novel, except they were real.
And then critics would complain that the villains are too cartoonishly evil to be taken seriously.
>>1415464
For real the Aztecs seem like a thought experiment. Some weird planet Picard stumbles across and has to consider whether he's obligated to put a stop to it or not.
> Why was Aztec religion so fucking nightmarish?
The same reason why Christian religion is fucking nightmarish with hell and shit. The fear mongering is a good way to spread the religion and practices like sacrifices is a good way to solidify that fear in people.
>>1415482
Christian cosmology is pretty horrifying if you give it some thought, and I suppose you could make the argument that the execution of heretics or heathens is a sort of human sacrifice, but I just don't see the same sheer bloodthirst and relish in brutality.
Plus, while Christians found a shitton of excuses to kill people over the ages, technically Christianity doesn't require anyone to die, while Aztec religion was predicated on the regular deaths of thousands.
>>1415489
>Christianity doesn't require anyone to die
Jesus just got real bummed out
>>1415489
>Christianity doesn't require anyone to die
I would disagree. God's system is such that sin needs to be paid in death, before Jesus this was simply done with animals instead of men, was was the custom before. There still needed be a steady tide of death flowing in to pay the wages of sin.
Enter Christ, who does some weird platonic spirit sacrifice to pay the wages of sin forever and his own, brutal death on earth was required to make it happen. Only the blood of God himself, or a weird aspect of God himself (it gets messy around here) is enough to stop the bloodflow.
So yeah I guess after that it isn't necessarily required that anyone die. But only because an eternal sacrifice was made instead.
I'm not surprised the mesoamericans took to Catholicism so strongly.
>>1415116
>you don't understand, it's a very deep cultural tradishun
You soundd just like the mudslime apologists
>>1414999
They most likely killed the babies first
>>1415046
I's still like to se ONE tophet in the Levant
>>1415518
Aztec religion is a lot cooler than Islam though to be fair.
>>1415464
Similarly there was a part in WWII where Hitler ordered counter-attacks against British airfields as they were recovering bombers ended, because "the bombers need to be shot down over Germany and not England to boost morale," which is the type of decision you'd expect from the one-dimensional "stupid liberal harming the war effort" characters in a bad military fiction/military scifi novel.
>>1415489
Old Testament God was pretty brutal, but then he had a kid and mellowed out a bit.
>>1415538
Old Testament Yahweh just kills you and that's it, you go to Sheol like everyone else.
The Father in the NT will literally burn you for all eternity.
I know which one I'd be more afraid of.
>>1415537
If by cooler you mean more retarded
>>1414962
>why isn't Mexico considered central America
Because they manage to influence the US in certain ways instead of just taking the dick.
>>1415548
This. Portraying NT God as some tree hugging tolerast hippy is beyond moronic.
>>1415548
The god of the old testament will kill your whole family and take away everything else from you just to se if you're a good slave, but still, hell is worse
>>1415548
>The Father in the NT will literally burn you for all eternity.
That's not how Hell works.
>>1415505
>or a weird aspect of God himself (it gets messy around here)
That's heresy.
>>1415489
>suppose you could make the argument that the execution of heretics or heathens is a sort of human sacrifice
God doesn't revel in the destruction of the wicked, nor did He require anyone to do that. Cases where heretics were executed was done for temporal pragmatism on human judgement.
>>1415574
Yes it is canonically
>>1415580
Trying to describe any element of the trinity in detail often results in heresy.
>>1415076
Yeah, I remember a documentary where an archaeologist recounted how horrified a team was to find that the previously thought to be peaceful Mayans ritually tore out the fingernails of POW's.
>>1415563
>Islam
>we have one God and he can do anything that's it okay
>pray five times a day and also you can't eat pork or do anything fun or drink
>and making pictures is evil
>you have to drop everything and make a long, boring journey to a shithole city in the middle of the desert
>Aztec religion
>have several different cool gods
>one of them is a flying snake
>we feed them human blood atop a giant pyramid
>have cool, colorful idols and carvings
>some of which are bowls to hold human hearts and body parts
>have festivals where we chop people's heads off and wear their skins
>have awesome, beautiful ceremonial clothes for our priests
No contest.
>>1415591
No, even when Jesus alludes to Fire, it's to conjure imagery that would be unpleasant to the Levantine populace. Preach to the Inuit and you need to change Hell to a freezing pit because they'd WANT to be surrounded by fire.
Besides, Hell is more or less like a kid who goes to bed hungry because he said no to mom's cooking and no matter what she tried he refused to eat, so now he's in bed groaning because he's hungry all of his own accord.
>>1415598
Which is why it's best to not think about it too much. There is an orthodoxy on what the Trinity is, but if you try and understand how that orthodoxy works, you get heresy. Like the Arians. Fucking Arian bastards. God Bless Santa Claus for decking their founder in the chops.
>>1415072
>pretending the world is a fundamentally moral/caring place
fuck off
Wow, people killing masses over religion any time before the Enlightenment? It's like the Aztecs were humans or somethin.
As for the modern crime rate, more to do with shit law enforcement and education than some "murderer gene." You think kids in Chicago or the Philipines are descended from Aztecs, faggot?
News flash you historically illiterate fuckface: everyone ever has an affinity for murder, and everyone is descended from murderers and usually rapists as well.
Even undeucated and undisciplined whites are murderous trash.
tl;dr knowledge is power mother fucker, and mexico has shit for schools.
>>1415618
So now he can't eat ever again? Fucked up dude.
>>1415062
>He did command them to slaughter, but not to sacrifice them.
literally how is killing children to appease a god not a religious sacrifice?
>>1415020
Central America is generally considered to be the isthmus that is in the center (Central) of the Americas (America). Mexico is not a part of it just because they are poor and speak Spanish.
>>1415647
>You think kids in Chicago or the Philipines are descended from Aztecs, faggot?
No they're descended from black niggers and yellow niggers.
>>1415618
>Besides, Hell is more or less like a kid who goes to bed hungry because he said no to mom's cooking and no matter what she tried he refused to eat, so now he's in bed groaning because he's hungry all of his own accord.
or the kid didn't know dinner was being served, or heard dinner was being served at a different place, or even that dinner wasn't being served at all
>>1415663
>reading that much into the analogy.
No, the point of the analogy is "Hell is the hungry tummy caused by one's own refusal to accept food rather than a punishment issued by the one giving the food." The analogy, because it's set within time, isn't eternal and shouldn't be treated that way. Heaven and Hell (everything Spirtual really) exists outside of time. Hence, things pertaining to them are Eternal.
>>1414962
Mexico is fucked up because of corruption in the government that dates back even before it became independent..
>>1415679
Or the kid ate his dinner heretically, because nobody in his family can agree on which spoon is the soup spoon and which spoon is for mashed potatoes. His uncle was trying to tell him to scrap the mashed potatoes altogether, but then the kid found out his uncle was just eating them instead of getting rid of them.
>>1415647
Back to your murdershed, savage.
>we kill each other because of poor education xDDD
There are BLACK AFRICAN countries that have severely lower murder rates than your central American killzones, you got no excuse whatsoever.
>>1415668
>literally how is killing children to appease a god not a religious sacrifice?
Ritual.
Putting cities to the sword was militaristic, kill and that was it. No rites, no ceremony, no solemnity. It's like starting a brawl in Assassins Creed with a mob of guards. Fight, Kill, Walk Off. Ezio didn't then hold a bonfire and recite an incantation as he burned the corpses of soldiers he killed during a Venice street brawl.
Killing in War is done to soley to eliminate an opponent. Ritualistic sacrifice isn't about eliminating an opponent, it's effectivley a spiritual payment for goods and services.
>>1415701
Yeah, Black African countries are famously good at keeping those kinds of records.
I'm not even mexican you stupid faggot, just an American that doesn't believe everything their grandpa says without cracking a book.
>>1415167
Metal as fuck
>>1415679
>or the kid didn't know dinner was being served, or heard dinner was being served at a different place, or even that dinner wasn't being served at all
You do realize plenty of theologians before you have dealt with that issue right? It's not new.
>>1415697
>Or the kid ate his dinner heretically
No, in this context of food, Heresy is eating raw meat wheras Orthodoxy is eating cooked meat and the risk of contracting Salmonella because you wouldn't cook the meat is the danger of Heresy.
>>1414951
Because when you've got shit land, and you've overfarmed and salted that shit land as a result, because you have shit crop rotation, but have a HUGE population from all that time you were uber-farming your shit land, and thus everyone is starving to death - you start to believe shitty shit.
Most of the Aztec sacrifices came from smaller tribes, encroaching on what little usable farmland they had left. Even then, they literally had to have people eat their babies once in awhile to cut down on the population.
It's a civilization brought to extreme desperation by over-extending its population - and it isn't the first nor only time something along those lines happened. Agrarian cultures very often go cannibalistic, when the agrarian knowledge and circumstance fails to advance with the population growth.
The Aztecs, if anything, are a cautionary tale, of just how shit things can get.
>>1415710
So, two problems with your analogy.
1. God didn't ask Ezio to do that
2. Guards in that game are not children that God asked you to kill
How is slaughtering children at God's request comparable to killing guards in Assassin's Creed or "eliminating an opponent?"
>>1415717
Actually, we are pretty good at record keeping
Most of Africa isn't 1998 Congo, idiot
t. Ghanaian
>>1415728
>No, in this context of food, Heresy is eating raw meat wheras Orthodoxy is eating cooked meat and the risk of contracting Salmonella because you wouldn't cook the meat is the danger of Heresy.
Wait, didn't his mom prepare the food though? How is it up to the kid if the meat is raw or not?
>>1415728
>You do realize plenty of theologians before you have dealt with that issue right? It's not new
and? I'm responding to you. and you have dodged the issue by saying someone else has an answer
>>1415733
>2. Guards in that game are not children that God asked you to kill
Clearly we've been getting phone calls from different gods.
>>1415733
God was dealing with a bunch of savage desert people surrounded by relatively more savage desert people. One of the first things they did after their God just helped free them from slavery was "worship a golden calf" which would be like begging you Dad to bail you out of Jail and once he does you proceed to go rob a liquor store. Almost every Human that God ever dealt with was an ass to some degree. Besides you're looking at it like its a history textbook just relaying information about a bunch of desert nomads.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1A65Wfr2is0
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N7y5lTBIGsU
>>1415688
it seems like hell was pretty clearly preached as an eternity of torture beyond description.
So while you can say
>t-that's not what the bible says!!!
everyone else who thought they were following the bible believed thats what it said.
>>1415647
I'm not going to say that ALL central americans are crazy or that it's 100% fact that they have some murder gene, but all central americans I've met have been crazy in some sort of way to the point where I really do have doubts if they don't have some genetic disposition to crazy/violent shit. I know it's anecdotal but combined with the murder rate in central american countries and it's hard for me to not think this way
>>1415710
>Killing in War is done to soley to eliminate an opponent
Yes, you sacrifice your opponent in order to get rid of them. You got rid of your opponent by paying with your opponent('s children's) blood.
>>1415167
These people must have eaten pussy like mad-men: what with how strong their mouths would've become from that mouth-muscle-intense language.
>>1415742
>Wait, didn't his mom prepare the food though? How is it up to the kid if the meat is raw or not?
In the Heresy analogy it's supposed to be adults or at least older teens. They have been provided with edible ingredients that require preparation. Orthodoxy fully cooks the food, Heresy just adds nutmeg.
Yes I'm changing who's involved, but that's because it's two different analogies. One on how Hell works, and the other on how Heresy works.
>>1415745
If the thread doesn't archive by morning I'll respond then. It would take longer than I'd like to find the theologians who tackled the issue and I'm quite tired. Sound fair? Look for the name in some other Aztec thread if it Archives or something.
>>1415785
You have no idea what sacrifice is, do you?
>>1415775
Jesus also described Hell as getting bounced from a party and throwing a fit ousted the club because of it.
>>1414962
Santa Muerte is a really cool concept through.
>>1415505
>God's system is such that sin needs to be paid in death
>There still needed be a steady tide of death flowing in to pay the wages of sin.
Anselm, please go.
>>1415610
Did someone mention... beautiful ceremonious \activities\?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLxfmpRvQOw
There is a pov somewhere, out there...
![Axl_Rose[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ie1UkHc.jpg "Axl_Rose[1].jpg")
>>1415803
>>1415808
and then the preachers described it as fiery torment
i usually judge a religion based on the beliefs of its followers, and 99% of them describe hell as a place where you burn
>>1415167
God damn it, Aztecs were fucking brutal
>>1415167
And then the Spanish are portrayed as 'evil', for fucks sake
>>1415950
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sand_Creek_massacre
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Party
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_and_Namaqua_genocide
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_clan_incest_case
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einsatzgruppen
>>1414951
When you read about the Aztecs you realize the Spanish did absolutely nothing wrong in exterminating that animal race.
>>1415958
You can't compare these minor incidents to all the tragedies non-whites have caused, you are just a cherry picking racist trying to make the white race look bad
>>1415800
>theologians tried to justify it
Well, color me surprised
>>1415953
Spaniards killed far more though
>>1415031
THE AYATOLLAH
>OF RAPE AND MURDAH
>>1415078
Deforestation is one hell of a drug.
>>1414962
This to be honest. As much as i try not to be racist, central American natives seem to have cruelty in their blood. Even now it is a large part of their culture and yes they even turned Christianity into a death cult.
>>1415961
What tragedies do you mean? I think you're baiting, but white people have committed more genocides than anybody. Essentially every major war outside of China was waged by Westerners.
You can't call me a racist while saying shit like "white people have more civilized than everyone else for all history".
>>1415958
In all fairness, the Donner Party was more an act of survival than willingly eating people for shits and giggles.
>>1415976
>You can't call me a racist while saying shit like "white people have more civilized than everyone else for all history"
That's not racism , that's historical fact
What you are doing is bending and manipulating facts to make white people seem worse than they actually are, that is racism.
>>1415610
Yeah but imagine Aztec terrorism if that was a thing.
>1000 westerners have had their heart ripped out to Xochiquetzal while another 100 have fought to the death in literal bloodbowl
>>1415980
How is it fact? Even if you define "most civilized" as being the most urbane and peaceful, that only applies to whites from the 20th century onward.
Whites before decolonization were rarely civilized even in their own backyard. At times, whites were even more violent than the Chinese or Arabs.
>>1415771
A joke I like to make to pious christians is that the reason that the Israelites were wandering in the desert for 40 years was because God was walking the stupid out of them.
>>1415980
It's not historical fact. Europeans have killed more than anybody else in history.
The aztecs weren't nice but the Spanish conquering them weren't either.
>>1415980
Define "civilized"
For the vast majority of recorded history nearly all whites were living in huts. The Classical Era of Greece began 2,000 years after Egypt was united.
>>1415980
How is he bending or manipulating facts? White people have done horrible things. Obviously they aren't inherently more violent than anybody else, but whites have been responsible for the most violence.
>>1416023
What's a tribe?
>>1416023
You still haven't defined civilized. Are you actually gonna make an argument or continue to spout buzzwords?
>>1416023
But anon, the average Aztec was also a farmer. Priests would sacrifice people.
Mass sacrifice is evil and can never be justified, but still led to a lower bodycount than the kinds of genocides we'd see committed by Europeans
>>1416029
Civilized means being part of an advanced and/or humane culture
>inb4 define humane
go fuck yourself I am not a fucking dictionary
>>1416023
No, it would have been the Aztec warrior class killing others, they were only a small part of society. The rest would have been cheering at the sacrifices sure, but it's not like euros didn't cheer at witches burning or gladiator fights to the death, and i don't mean normal fights, i mean where they murder a shit load of slaves or throw them to lions.
>>1416039
So has the west always been civilized?
>>1416043
Now you are bending and manipulating facts again.
First of all witch burning sure happened from time to time, but nowhere near the scale in which Aztecs did their sacrifices
Also "gladiator fights where they murder a shit ton of slaves", give me one fucking source backing this up, this is the kind of shit I am talking about you are trying to make white people look worse than they really are.
>>1416048
Compared to the rest of the world? Not always, but for the most part yes
>>1416055
So when would say that the west was civilized?
>>1416039
The ferocity of Spanish atrocities against Mesoamerican peoples precludes them from being "more humane"
>>1416058
It was probably the early middle ages when it started to become significantly more civilized than the rest of the world (except the islamic world probably).
>>1416059
You are just fucking stupid to be honest. The Spanish literally helped neighbour tribes of the Aztecs, because they were literally being starved to death and used as sacrifice bait.
When the Spanish conquered these people, sure they were considered very low class people, but atleast they got to fucking live.
>>1415398
First, no they didn't, Mexico city is hardly a rainforest area.
Second, they didn't even come from the area. Aztecs were invaders from the arid north, like all nahua peoples. Nahuas are to Mesoamerican history what germanic invaders were in Europe.
>>1416062
So let's say the west has been civilized since the middle ages. Most of the famous genocides come way after their initial "civilized behavior". Wouldn't it be worse to commit atrocities and genocides while claiming to be civilized? At least in defense of the Aztec they're simply savages as only the west was civilized at the time.
>>1416059
What atrocities?
>>1416063
The holocaust
>>1416073
Wow, so you are out of arguments so you are just gonna name the worst thing white people have ever done, even though it had nothing to do with the Spanish?
Kill yourself my man.
>>1416051
>Often, wounded soldiers and amputees would be placed in the arena for Commodus to slay with a sword. Citizens of Rome missing their feet through accident or illness were taken to the arena, where they were tethered together for Commodus to club to death while pretending they were giants
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnatio_ad_bestias
>>1416076
You're sitting there saying white people have never done anything like the Aztecs. I submit to you, the Holocaust, the Holodomer. Don't forget the 30 years war atrocities.
>>1415537
You only say this because there's no aztecs in your country.
>>1416077
>form of capital punishment
>this penalty was mainly applied to the worst criminals
nice argument you got there bro
>>1415537
Islam
>Pay tax or convert, or die
Aztecs
>we're gonna rip your heart out to our gods and theres nothing you can do about it
>>1415574
There's a explicit Lake of Fire in Revelations.
>>1416081
>You're sitting there saying white people have never done anything like the Aztecs
Never said that, just saying white people in general have been more humane than the Aztecs
Ofcourse the things you named are huge exceptions
>>1416085
It was done to cripples and people with different religions.
Regardless it's common knowledge that people were killed brutally in the arenas for entertainment, i wouldn't even need to source that in an academic paper.
>>1416092
>i wouldn't even need to source that
You do, or I won't believe you and I win this argument
>>1415618
>kid doesn't want to it
>mom forbids him to eat forever
Mom would go to jail in any civilized country.
>>1416096
*systematic
>>1416091
>Ofcourse the things you named are huge exceptions
Right so the times Europeans have been worse than the Aztecs are just exceptions.
What about....
Cromwells wars in Ireland, killed about 300,000 Irish in the 17th century through brutal treatment.
The Russian genocide of the Circassians, killed about 400,000 and forcefully relocated over a million.
The list goes on
>>1415958
Senseless massacres and murder are a telling sign of civilization, anon. 30-year war anyone?
>>1416096
It's hard to answer a stupid question like that.
>t least in defense of the Aztec they're simply savages
That really doesn´t defend them at all, in fact, the reason why they are even considered savages is because of the horrible things they did
>>1416095
http://www.tribunesandtriumphs.org/colosseum/roman-executions-at-the-colosseum.htm
The Romans killed people all the time in the Arena nigga
>>1414987
probably called it democracy too.
>>1415020
You need to be a literally who country to be in central america. It's like central asia.
Despite all things Mexico is pretty (in)famous and well known around the world.
>>1416101
Huge difference here, most European atrocities were not supported by the local population whatsoever
But the Aztecs all seemed to endorse the brutal sacrifices they performed
>>1416111
>were not supported by the local population
Source?
>muh nightmare
>muh morals
>muh h-hurt f-fee fees
Lmao stay spooked.
>>1416107
>The victims of Roman Executions at the Colosseum and other arenas were Executions were criminals, Roman Army deserters, rebels, traitors, runaway slaves
Again, you are making a fool of yourself
How is this comparable to the sacrifices the Aztecs did to completely innocent people?
>>1416112
Common fucking sense.
Idiot.
>>1416111
>Huge difference here, most European atrocities were not supported by the local population whatsoever
Genocides aren't possible without the support of all the people committing the genocide, one person is not capable of killing 400,000 people.
You're so funny
>>1416112
Go around and ask what people think of the holocaust, there is your source
You won't find many people supporting it unless you are on /pol/ or something
>>1416118
Not an argument. No source no claim
>>1416120
Its hard to ask people who lived through the potato famine, French revolution, 30 years war, etc
>>1416119
Just because you are part of an army doesn't mean you support the ideas of your general / liege or whoever the fuck, you are wrong.
>>1416126
Well people wrote about it obviously
>>1416129
That's why I asked for a source. I'm also waiting on why only western atrocities are exceptions
>>1416130
Because Aztec sacrifices were done on a daily basis during the entire existence of that civilization, holocausts didn't happen on a daily basis during the existence of western civilization
>>1416132
So what you're saying is that an event is only an atrocity if it happens daily? What about kill count. I'm pretty sure more people dies from the Holocaust than Aztec sacrifices.
>>1416134
I never said the holocaust wasn't an atrocity, it doesn't define western culture though
Murdering people did define Aztec culture on the other hand
>>1416137
>I never said the holocaust wasn't an atrocity, it doesn't define western culture though
It certainly does.
>>1416140
That's a retarded statement it really is
>>1416091
No, you said white people have been the most humane out of all peoples
>>1416141
No, western cultural history is defined by ww2 and the holocaust.
Where do you think the huge SJW anti racism anti everything movement all stems from? The holocaust.
>>1416137
Imperialism and spreading of enlightenment ideals are part of western culture. Both of those have led to countless deaths in events like the French revolution and colonialism. Would those count or would some how the west would be infallible
>>1416111
Not any more than Germans encouraged Nazi atrocities
>>1415630
>the world is cruel and ebil!
>>1416082
I don't know if you mean Hispanics by that but if so I am one kek.
God this board is so shit, what does white people have anything to do with this thread?
Can't the americunt poltards just fucking die already?
>>1416250
It wasn't the poltards who started it, it was the lefties
>hurr durr Aztecs weren't bad compared to white people hurr durr
>>1416250
White supremacists are autistic
>>1414999
IIRC the Roman reaction towards Carthaginian child sacrifice was not so much the killing of children but rather its religious nature - human sacrifice being a taboo with them.
>>1416144
That's true. White people were the first to abolish slavery, death penalty, etc.
>>1415610
Reddit: the post
>>1415167
well they DID think they were saving the world
that has nothing to do with their religion. they were just ruled by crazy tyrants, majority of them weren't anything like that and didn't accept human sacrifice.
>>1416562
>source: my ass
>>1416595
aztecs weren't animals, they were just like you or i. you can't blame the entire culture and faith system for some madman's sick doings.
>>1415953
Not even close. Spaniards were also so gracious that they Christianized the Aztecs and incorporated their royalty into Spanish nobility, IIRC the House of Montezuma still exists.
>>1415965
Be the sword? Nope, they stabilized the zone, stopped the constant wars and taxed everyone be how useful they were during the conquest (the Tlaxcalans had special priviliges until the independence for example), senseless killing was only after taking a city be storm to show who was boss and pay booty, why kill good tax paying and in the way to be christian citizens?
>le spanish were bad
>aztecs were gud bois and dindus
Thank God we put those bloody savages out of circulation
>>1414951
>Bitch about Aztec Sacrifice
>Other side of the globe teeming with endless pyres of heretics
>>1416681
Yeah, those crazy protestants...
>>1414951
Consider this theory:
Blood when used in the form of blood meal makes a decent nitrogen amendment for a crop like corn which definitely needs lots of nitrogen.
>>1416681
>endless pyres of heretics
Inquisition killed around 4000 people throughout 350 years. Aztecs killed 30k IN A SINGLE YEAR. I swear some people genuinely believe this shit about Europeans being the most violent people ever while native Americans dindu nuffin, even though native Americans and their descendants have time and time again been proven to be far more violent.
>>1416088
>taking Revelation literally
>spelling it with an S
>>1415870
>listening to fire and brimstone evangelical preacher-types
>thinking they are accurate representations of ALL Christian theology
>>1415962
So you just look at hard to comprehend materials and just go "fuck it, if I don't immediately 'get it' it's bad and I should ignore it?"
>>1415992
That's surprisingly apt for what actually happened.
Don't wanna read this whole thread. But from James Maffie - Aztec philosophy I learned that the Aztecs thought they were in the last age, so called third age, and that it was the last age of humans. They could prolong it by sacrifice to the teotl, the energy that keeps the universe going.
>>1416097
>given an inch and taking a yard
The analogy ends the next morning jackass. Why do twats like you insist on taking it farther than intended? Does it make you feel less bad about having a chode or something?
>>1416062
>the west was more civilized than china, india, japan and all those cultures.
>>1416750
>to prevent the world ending and everyone dying we need to kill everyone
Wasn't their population in huge decline because of it even before the spanish
>>1415976
>white people have committed more genocides than anybody
The only reason you have that perception is because Whites invented history. Just look at Africa today - White people had to figure out their own history for them because they were too retarded to do it themselves. Same for everywhere else in the world. Their many many genocides were either never recorded or deliberately buried, if they even had the grace to feel ashamed about them in the first place.
>>1416026
It's like a wandering extended family with cousin fucking and gang warfare
>>1417354
Stop capitalizing 'white'. It looks retarded
>>1417354
define whites
>>1416081
The holocaust is greatly exaggerated and Jews did the holodomor, Whites were the victims that time.
>>1417354
>Same for everywhere else in the world.
But that's wrong. White people did not 'invent' history. Pretty much every civilization kept records of the past.
>>1417384
>le jews did the holodomor meme
There were Jews in the CPSU, so what? There were more Russians and other non-Jewish ethnicities. The man in charge was not a Jew.
>>1416698
There's no evidence they were using human sacrifice as fertilizer and even if there was that wouldn't excuse the Aztecs
>abloo bloo the aztecs were mean
You guys are a bunch of faggots.
>>1417382
If you have to ask, you ain't White.
But I would say pink nipples is a good rule of thumb.
>>1417392
>Pretty much every civilization kept records of the past.
Campfire stories are not historical records anon. You're really reaching.
>>1415039
I hate this modern world where we have to respect insane beliefs because of muh religion and muh culture.
>>1417466
Really?
If you say 'I disagree with Aztec ritual sacrifice' are you going to be shunned for not respecting their beliefs?
No?
Stop exaggerating.
>>1416033
>Mass sacrifice is evil and can never be justified
Well it can be, if the sacrifice is necessary to sustain the world.
>>1414999
Actually the winning team was sacrificed. Can't let losers be offered to the gods
>>1417549
Why would anyone even play?
>>1414999
>>1415006
Both the Mayans and the Aztecs overfarmed and thus salted their land a few generations later. When your population is starving to death, you generally start taking drastic measures to survive.
If it's genetic, it's, unfortunately, a gene shared by all humans, as you often see this same pattern of human sacrifice and cannibalism in smaller failed agrarian communities throughout the world and in nearly every ethnicity. It's only that these two were among the largest failed agricultural states ever, and had a longer farming boom than most.
>>1418109
Among the Aztecs, if the Spaniards are to be believed, it had gotten to a point where a lot of forms of human sacrifice were made up of eager volunteers and celebratory.
Why is the Christian religion so nightmarish?
All cultures have their war gods and grueome stories, but a deity that threatens to damn all those who don't bow down to him to an afterlife of perpetual and unbearable torture is horrific.
How do you even maintain a society built on such a demonic spiritual foundation.
>>1415972
>As much as I try not to be racist
>>>tumblr
>>1418183
All you have to do is pray and be a holy person to not be damned to hell in Christianity. Are you really comparing that to a religion that mandates the killing of thousands of people every year from your population? I understand that atheists really hate chrisitans type but c'mon.
>>1418191
tumblr gets a bad rap
the political radicals are a small part of the site
There are some cool blogs there and I like the layout.
>>1418204
>All you have to do is pray and be a holy person to not be damned to hell in Christianity
I know this is hard to comprehend for someone as spineless as you, but for someone who actually has convictions, it's decidedly difficult to "pray" and "not be damned to Hell".
>>1414999
>Romans EVER talking shit about another culture being a bunch of sick murderers after they fed conquered slaves to animals and wtached them kill others for entertainment.
ok sure.
>>1417408
I wasn't making an excuse, just putting forth a theory. I'm sorry I think I might have inadvertently trolled you there.
>>1415072
>Krishna cares
Waitwhat. All I've heard about Hindu myths were that Hindu deities were just as bloodthirsty and uncaring and Krishna himself was a bit of a cunt.
>>1415992
Apparently 40 years wasn't enough.
>>1417488
Even their creation myths are hella brutal. Suns are made of exploded Aztec deities, as explained in one myth.
>>1417421
Many spaniards don't have pink nipples.
>>1418109
For the same reason muslims blow themselves up.
>>1417354
History developed independently on different cultures, stop bullshitting.
>>1416668
>hurr durr nazis were bad, american good.
>>1416105
>That really doesn´t defend them at all, in fact, the reason why they are even considered savages is because of the horrible things they did
By that measure all the major WW2 powers would be savages.
![original[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/4znQaOM.jpg "original[1].jpg")
>>1415739
yes they are very good
![UupWMeA[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/FGhNYmK.png "UupWMeA[1].png")
>>1419220
or maybe not that good.
Notice how in Mexico the vast majority of homicides happened in the northern states, were a lot of narco battles were going on.
Furthermore, those people in the north didn't descend from Aztecs.
>>1416077
>Patricides, who were normally drowned in a leather bag filled with snakes (poena cullei),
How do you even come up with something like this?
>>1419547
Brainstorming session?
>>1415984
That's just the cartels' routine.
>what is the San Fernando massacre
>>1417466
>where we have to respect
No-one is asking you to respect them but simply acknowledge them as equally valid motivations as power, politics, wealth etc.
>>1415020
Mexico is fucking central America you god damn fool
>>1419277
Latin America should be nuked
>>1414962
>why isn't Mexico considered central America?
because Geography, you ignorant cunt
>>1417414
they all forget their ancestors did the same kind of shit.
>>1420279
your mother should have been killed
>>1415105
>missing the point of the post this fucking completely
Graduate high school first.
>>1415167
>five days without mass sacrifice
Man that must've been the best parties ever
>>1415489
"And we shall flow a river forth to Thee, and teeming with blood shall it ever be"
>>1415729
>Agrarian cultures very often go cannibalistic
Could you expand on that? I don't know other examples that were similarly gruesome.
>>1415958
Why you'd post any of that low-level shit and not, say, the Gallipoli Campaign?
>>1418209
The only cool part is the porn.
And the Bendthatdick Cuminbitch name generator.
>>1414951
Lets say we created a isolated society, put them in a dome with no education. The concept of good still exists externally to them for their choosing. The same way the earth exists externally from everyone. But this society would have to choose good though, the same way they would pluck fruit off a tree to eat, they have to reach out and choose good, since good is a concept that exists outside and as an offering to be chosen.
My point is that the earth, as with this concept of good exists outside of all of us, neither was created by man, they exist FOR man to utilize.
Now the Aztecs did not choose good. But why?
Israel was once told to kill every man women and child of not only the Canaanites, but of the surrounding territories who did things like put children and babies into fire. The Caananites were evil and God told them to get rid of them all.
Long story short Israel DID NOT listen to God. They only killed the Caananites and not the surrounding nations. And because they didn't listen to God and kill those other nations that worshiped the same gods that Caanan worshiped, it's written that these surrounding nations and their customs in worship infiltrated Israel and Israel began participating in putting children through fire, male prostitution, etc etc.
By not cutting the limb off, the infection spread into Israel and as you can imagine, degeneracy is disguised as something that feels good and so began Israels initial failure as a nation in God's eyes.
So why did the Aztecs do such heinous things? Because the whisper they listened to, the things their "gods" wanted them to do....they did.
Cut a mans heart out on top of this temple, or the crops wont grow, it wont rain, and life will end.
The Aztecs complied.
Now this seems insane.
But only to people who take good for granted and to people who are self righteous. As if they aren't under a similar delusion. That there is no Creator of all things that actually wishes well for all.
>>1421654
The question is, how'd they come up with such a batshit crazy bunch of deities in the first place?
>>1415139
>fairly recently
>1848
Get over it, Pedro. Aztlan is a shitty fantasy, and Mexico was beaten into the fucking ground.
>>1415020
>I'm genuinely curious, why is Mexico not considered Central America?
Are you so retarded as to never have once tried to figure out on your own why a continent is a continent?
Convention boy, convention. Culture, geography, sense? These play no part in determining where one continent starts and another begins.
It's simply a matter of "many people decided it would be so and thus it is"
>>1421690
You really think they came up with them on their own? Fabrications of their own mind? Again, to think that, means you're taking the concept of good for granted. When the concept of good exists as an option to choose.
When good and peace are a viable option for people, its there to be chosen by them...why would anyone choose otherwise?
Deception, lies, a complete fabrication of reality and a twisting of what truly is good and peaceful. Up becomes down and down becomes up. When you are conditioned to have a warped sense of reality, you get confusion from the truth.
1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace,
The image I was attempting to paint above in my earlier post though, was that the earth and the concept of good are things that were designed before man ever laid eyes on them. They exist for us to choose from. The earth for us to live atop of. They have an author, they are already copy-written for.
The Aztecs obviously chose the polar opposite though. But again, the only way that can happen is if an argument is made on behalf of their decision. A lie. A lie perpetuated by fear.
"You have to capture and cut the hearts out of men on this temple....if you dont life itself will end."
I wouldn't be surprised though if that region , had a time of peace.
The same way Israel eventually started sacrificing children when they ignored God and begun a path of degeneracy by allowing other degenerate nations to mingle with theirs, I wouldn't be surprised if at one point the natives in the Americas suffered similar scenarios.
But yeah, knowing evil...it finds a way into societies. It found a way into the Aztec society in heinous fashion. To the extent that the neighboring tribes of the Aztecs sided with the Spaniards, because they were sick of the Aztecs.
Life's interesting...
>>1416752
Thank, I understand now. I wasn't aware you were able to leave hell the morning after dying. I'm now off to sin su'more
Do you think its just a coincidence that every culture that ever practiced child-sacrifice ended up being exterminated by some foreign conquering power?
>>1418221
>he believes the ''gladiators were always fighting to the death'' meme
don't forget ebin horned celtic helmets and double edged axes
>>1418109
Because it was an honor to be sacrificied you dumb faglord.
>>1414962
What's wrong with worshipping grim reaper?
