So just finished watching the 2nd season of Marco Polo .
Obviously, seen as its for entertainment and everything happend 700+ years ago, most of it is fleshed out for the show but how much of the main events are real and did Polo really play that big of a role in Kublai' empire
Also, I know there are translations of his journal but if anyone has recommendations on which one would be best it would be appreciated
(And sorry if this is a common shitpost at this stage)
Marco Polo basically made up most of his stuff. It's likely that he never actually went to China.
>>1409558
>It's likely that he never actually went to China.
It's more likely that he actually went. Several details point genuine fist-hand experience.
>>1409445
>id Polo really play that big of a role in Kublai' empire
No idea. Though Khublai actually did extensively uses foreigners in his administration (most of them were Muslims though).
>>1409558
Well fuck
>>1409578
And yet he never mentions things that would be the first to be mentioned by any European, the strange foot binding practice for example.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/8691111/Explorer-Marco-Polo-never-actually-went-to-China.html
>>1409595
>Great Wall
Was in a state of disuse. Not to mention the Epic continuous wall was a Ming Thing. If Polo saw the Great Wall, all he'd see was walled up mountain passes with checkpoints.
>>1409587
>foot binding
Travel to, let's say, Germany and write about your experiences. You will almost certainly fail to describe one thing or two that the locals do.
Scholars generally believe that Marco was in China, although he more than likely exaggerated his own role there. There are many details that he most likely personally witnessed, for example he is the very oldest surviving source for some historical events.
Follow up question.
Was the Christian backing Kublais opposer just made up as well or did the Vatican actually send a force of crusaders in as well
Also I'm guessing the fathers role was totally made up for the plot
>>1409558
Polo himself says he did not retell much of what he saw. I may be reaching but isn't it possible that he witnessed foot binding and the great wall but thought he would not be believed. Even most of what he did tell was called into questioned until later confirmation.
>>1409626
What about no mention of basic shit and curiosities like the fact all the Chinese eat their food with fucking sticks. Seems like a big thing to forget.
>>1410227
And you can't say no one would believe him. It's easy enough to demonstrate.
>>1409445
>Crusader army in fucking china
Legitimately laughed at that
>>1410258
That's a mongol army
>>1410261
Have you not seen the latter part of season 2?
>>1410267
Shit...no...stfu don't tell me
>>1409641
The Vatican and Catholics in general are fucking crazy.
They attempted a similar style Crusader-coup in Japan, but failed miserably.
So it might be in the realm of possibility.
>>1409595
>Author never mentions things ever only partaken of by 1% of the population.
>Hurr it's all faaaake
>>1409445
I read Marco's book on penguin edition (direct translation) and its actually quite acurate for the point of view of a medieval italo-croatian merchant.
He most likely never went to the south of China though, but very probable went on some missions or tours for Kublai as far to Tibet (reporting the lama monks and related tibet shit) since he was not locked on a dungeon or killed on sight, but he was certainly a prisoner at court since he escaped in a shady way because he knew that when Kublai died he would be dead one way or the other and kublai was old and unhealthy (far older than the show depicts, like 60 when met marco)
We will never know his role but it probably was minor or very minor since he was by far not the first european (kublai had fucking russian bodyguards) not the first italian since yangzhou had a minor italian community (attested on records and a tombstone of a chick called Katarina Villioni of 1342)
Btw
> all this history revisionist faggots who claim he was never there because there was no record on China and he didnt saw one or two shits
You fucking cucks, as if more important people on kublai administration wer ever accounted for, if marco had the remote chance of ever appearing on a written report on mongol administration it was probably on mongol script and probably went on fire since every single fucking chinese government purged all previous written record of the previous administration. Maybe you enjoy the same kind of fetish yourselves.
Also he never mentioned other shit awe inspiring like Constantinople cathedral or Jerusalem dome then why he would mention a fucking ruinous hadrian wall like ruinuos hemp of rubble mostly coming from the warring states period
He accurately mentioned random facts that almost no european knew at the time like the end and legend of assassins, the multiple trade oasis of center asia, the mongol postal system and even India fascination with poo
>>1409445
Virtually everything that happens is wrong, and the odds of him being important at all are very low.
Trebuchets taken from the west-namely Persians, taken form arabs, possibly invented by franks-really did royally fuck up the song.
>>1409641
Made the fuck up.
>>1410758
Nah, the counterpoint trebuchet was invented by the Persians under the Caliphates, since the Persians got the idea of a trebuchet from Chinese style catapults from the earlier dynasties, whose counterweight was a team of pulling men.
Franks had Roman tier siege engines which was torsion based. While ingenuous, Trebuchets can hurl heavier loads given that all you had to do was put more men on the pull line or add more counterweight.
>>1409445
The show is a huge fucking meme
>Kublai cuts Ariq's fucking head off
>Polo is suddenly a military leader after being nothing but a merchant his whole life
>now Polo is a siege engineer too and he helps the Mongols build a trebuchet (seriously what the fuck)
>Polo's dad brings crusaders over to China for some stupid reason
>tons of other made up shit that never existed and didn't happen
>>1410327
100% of chinese used chopsticks
>>1411661
Nope.jpg. 100% Chopstick use was during the Ming Dynasty.
Though it started in the Song dynasty. Earlier the Chinese used spoons, forks, but mostly hands.
Pic related: these are ancient Persian but the chinese fork was similar. Though the poor Chinese used forks made out of bone.
>>1411888
>these are ancient Persian
>>1409445
Marco didn't bring pasta to Italy, they always had it. I don't know who even came up with such shit
>>1409587
>foot binding
>Evidence from archaeology indicates that footbinding was practiced among the wives and daughters of officials in the thirteenth century.
Why would Marco Polo ever experience foot binding if he doesn't ever interact intimately with girls in the officials' class?
Okay history aside, is the show worth watching?
>>1409595
>he does not mention the Great Wall
the way it is now was only built during the ming dynasty
>the use of chopsticks as eating utensils
Most peasants used mostly hands, but also forks
>tea
Either didn't think much of it or he wasn't served it
>foot-binding
as if he'd get a chance to see a girl's bare feet, and a noble one's at that
>Chinese calligraphy
Would probably consider it boring
>>1411658
Yeah they really jumped the shark with the crusaders shit
>>1412023
Some things are obvious whislt other plot points are really interesting
More historical and fun than GoT
>>1409445
did any christians really worry about the mongols? surely it would have been extremely inconvenient to actually go far enough to get at them in any world.
>>1412048
The ones in Eastern Europe did. The principalities and republics in what is now Russia consistently worried of the next big Steppenigger invasion.
Mongs dont discriminate in their conquests.
>>1412029
>Most peasants used mostly hands, but also forks
Chopsticks were extremely common even back then, if he set foot inside any city he would have seen at least one pair.
>Either didn't think much of it or he wasn't served it
Again, same thing, tea was very common, for him to not mention tea at all which a lot of Chinese drank, is quite odd.
>as if he'd get a chance to see a girl's bare feet, and a noble one's at that
Abnormally small shoes would stand out, would it not?
>>1412058
He would've seen a pair but he might not have made much of it
>gain, same thing, tea was very common, for him to not mention tea at all which a lot of Chinese drank, is quite odd.
Maybe he didn't think it anything special.
>Abnormally small shoes would stand out, would it not?
Seeing as he'd see 1-2 official's daughters, he might just think they were females with really small shoes, and it would be rude to just ask them why they've got miniature feet
>>1409587
Yep because that's the first thing you do when you meet a foreign culture look at their feet
According to the show it had been discontinued for awhile
He's like Herodotus he knew a lot but didn't write it all down
>>1412061
But don't you find it odd he recorded miniscule details about things that no one else cared about, yet left all these details out?
>>1412056
alright I said stupid things there. I meant vatican and whoever they would have been particularly affiliated with.
>>1410276
Do you mean Portuguese were told to ally with the Otomo clan
>>1410258
Use Byzantine ports to cross Black Sea? And go across
>>1410512
Did the Mongols already know about catapults and was marco the first to use them
>>1412069
Ye m8 just cross half of fucking Asia, it's not like that would be a logistical nightmare or anything
>>1412072
Catapults were invented by Persian engineers, Mongols brought a few Persian engineers with them to China and had Chinese workshops upgrade them
>>1409587
footbinding didn't become a mass phenomenon until the ming dynasty senpai
>>1412074
The crusaders were near Karakoram not Khanbulac
And couldn't they just use horses at the way station
>>1412076
Thanks
>>1409587
Marco Polo did mention paper money though.
>>1412114
he did, lol wtf. read a book bait nigger
>"With these pieces of paper, made as I have described, he [Khubilai Khan] causes all payments on his own account to be made; and he makes them to pass current universally over all his kingdoms and provinces and territories, and whithersoever his power and sovereignty extends. And nobody, however important he may think himself, dares to refuse them on pain of death. And indeed everybody takes them readily, for wheresoever a person may go throughout the Great Kaan’s dominions he shall find these pieces of paper current, and shall be able to transact all sales and purchases of goods by means of them just as well as if they were coins of pure gold. And all the while they are so light that ten bezants’ worth does not weigh one golden bezant. "
>>1412065
yeah they tried a mongol/catholic alliance which may explain why there are some catholic (not orthodox) on the series and a "justification" for the atrocity of the crusaders (although crusader mercenaries where not unheard of)
>>1410512
I disagree about the assassins, Jean de Joinville's Life of Saint Louis talks at lenght about it, and presents a badass meeting between emissaries of the Old under the Mountain and Saint Louis
>>1412080
>hey guys you want to ride thousands of miles through unknown territory, over mountains, across deserts and at the end of it all get in a fight with people that have nothing to do with us or our culture and even if we win it's not like we could hold those lands or feasibly bring back enough loot to make this all worth it?
>yeah sounds good to me
>>1412864
> normal mediocre european
> guy is companion of Saint Louis, seneshal of France
> One of the best-known account of the crusades, even at the time
Meaning every crusader knew about the hashishins. Of course a peasant or a noble ( although for the noble it's likely ) won't know about the hashishins, like they won't know who is currently king of, say, portugal.
>>1412864
I'm not disagreeing about any other thing you presented, though, but saying this sect wasn't known in europe is akin to saying no nestorian knew about the vatican.
>>1412048
Fun Fact: Nestorian Turks in Mongol armies made Nestorian Christianity unpopular in China.
And that was a serious loss: China's nestorian population in the Song Dynasty was the 3rd biggest religion. But when they saw barbarians being Christfags, they dropped it like a hot potato and now its almost non-existent.
