So this shit pretty much wouldn't have happened had France not been all "muh colonies," right?
>>1405853
It's more complicated then that
Somewhat.
If France had managed to create a plausible administration for Indochina that wasn't communist, the Vietnam War wouldn't have happened.
As it stood, they held onto the dream of keeping Indochina until they eventually got blown the fuck out and then left and pretended it didn't happen.
It's the typical mix of arrogance and incompetence you see in 20th century French history.
France didnt matter at all.
>>1405853
It wouldn't have happened if Ho Chi Minh had stayed quiet and subservient, like a good chink.
>>1406041
t. Vincent Auriol
>>1405853
They honestly should have quit Asia altogether and focused on North Africa. At least then they might still have something to show for the effort.
Honestly, if the United States wasn't trying to uphold this 'War on Communism' and worried for itself and itself alone, then the war wouldn't have been dragged out as long and as painfully as it was. It would've solely been France, North, and South Vietnam's issue alone, give or take the Soviet Union's involvement as well.
>>1406041
Ho and the Viet Minh were assisted by the USA during WWII against the Japanese. After the war, Indochina was handed back to France.
We turned against Ho, and supported our Ally.
Abandoned by the west, Ho turned to the USSR.
>>1406096
Ho Chi Minh turned to Leninism over a decade before WWII even began. Specifically, he turned toward Lenin in the immediate aftermath of WWI after being snubbed at Versailles.
>>1405870
Indochina had been a colony of France since the mid 19th century.Vichy turned it over to Japan.
After the War, France was handed Indochina, to resume their colony.
The French weren't "blown the fuck out".
After the surrender at Dienbienphu, the French decided it wasn't worth it anymore.
The US - backed South Vietnamese government was created after the French departed in good order.
Many French veterans wrote to the Pentagon during our war with advice on what not to do.
They were ignored.
We made the same mistakes.
What about the arrogance and incompetence of the USA, especially after WWII?
>>1406115
That does not change the fact that we supported Ho during WWII.
The OSS and military Intel were in-country during the fight against Japan.
Read the outstanding book "Embers of War" by Fredrik Loge valley.
>>1406131
I was just pointing out the fact that this statement:
>Abandoned by the west, Ho turned to the USSR
Is wrong. Ho was already on their side and had been for a very long time.
>Read the outstanding book "Embers of War" by Fredrik Loge valley.
This is absolutely irrelevant to the conversation at hand. Ho wasn't an ally by any means. He was a co-belligerent.
>believing american propaganda trying to "we dindu nufin blame dem mufuckin french"
>>1406141
Not during WWII.
Fredrik Logevall's book is all about this very subject, and has everything to do with the subject.
How fought against Japan and the USA supported his Viet Minh against our enemy. I don't care that he was a Communist, so was the USSR.
>>1406246
>Not during WWII
Over a decade before WWII.
>How fought against Japan and the USA supported his Viet Minh against our enemy
So was the USSR. They weren't our ally.
> I don't care that he was a Communist, so was the USSR.
And the USSR wasn't our ally so keep shilling your horse apples, comrade.
>>1406119
>What about the arrogance and incompetence of the USA, especially after WWII?
>achieve global hegemony
>be called incompetent by neckbeard commies on an anime imageboard
It's like saying Rome was incompetent because Hannibal fucked them up a few times. Context and perspective is important. Without them you end up with a very narrow world-view and believe stupid ass shit.
>>1406119
>lose conventional pitched battle to a non-state actor, with tens of thousands of dead
>not BTFO
Sorry, brah.
>>1406257
>They weren't our ally.
They definitely were. Uneasy allies, sure, but definitely allies.
>>1406262
>They definitely were
They definitely were not. They were co-belligerents.
>>1406272
That's not accurate. We supported them economically, politically, and logistically to the fullest extent during the war.
>>1406287
>We supported them economically, politically, and logistically to the fullest extent during the war
That doesn't make us allies by any means. That just means that we were helpful co-belligerents instead of individual co-belligerents. There's a reason that no academic literature places the Vietminh or the Soviets into the Allies. They weren't allies. They were co-belligerents. That's why it is always: The Allies and the Soviet Union. Even during WWII it was referred to as such.
>>1406257
>USSR not an ally during WWII
Say wut m8?
>>1406314
>give money and arms
>cooperatively invade and destroy a country
>not allies
>>1406259
>>achieve global hegemony
>then get memed on by a bunch of rice farmers with AKs
yeh okey bred
>>1405853
Decolonisation was a mistake and a tragedy. None of these countries were ready for independence.
>>1406382
>Memed by rice farmers with AKs
That would be true if there were any US soldiers in South Vietnam when the North invaded again in 1975, which there weren't
>>1406382
>>then get memed on by a bunch of rice farmers with AKs
We didn't completely destroy them so we got "memed on"? Anti-American commies really are stupid as fuck.
>>1406398
Like they could support the colonies after the Pandora box has been open.
>>1406420
And the natives could?
>>1406414
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting
>>1406438
>everyone who disagrees with me is shitposting
when will this meme finally die
>>1406428
It was better to cut the burden and let them deal with the issues (and still run the show in the background).
>>1406486
Like for France how would the voting and government change to accommodate the interests of the colonials?
>>1406414
>Implying there were no Paris Peace accords
wowzers dude
>>1406509
there were no Paris Peace accords.
>>1406398
Considering that Vietnam fought for their independence and had been requesting aid in the endeavor for decades prior, I'd say they were pretty damn ready for it.
>>1405853
What do you mean? As far as i know, Vietnam was in a civil war state.
It was the USA that decided(once again) to interfere in the history of another country.
>>1406947
It's like a sixteen year old saying she's ready to be independent. Just because she wants it doesn't mean she is ready for the responsibility. Judging by the political and economic situation I have a hard time seeing how they were ready.
>>1405853
Vietnam would've turned communist sooner if France didnt oppose it for a decade after WW2
And since the US were already busy with Korea, the Vietnam War would indeed have probably not happened
>>1408456
They're not that bad off. Probably the most benevolent communist regime on the planet at the moment.
>>1406119
Eventually we took their advice to retreat though
>>1405853
It wouldn't have happened if the french had done something genuine unfrench and put a competent commander at the head of their forces
>>1406347
>implying Germany and the Soviet Union were allies between '39 and '41
Lad...
>>1406078
Islamic Terrorism?
>>1405853
If not France then one of the other powers that be would have.
Vietnam War memes on /his/ and /k/
1. We never really tried!
2. HCM wasn't even a communist!
3. We could have nuked them!
4. They were about to surrender!
5. We didn't lose! It was the Democrats stopping the funding!
6. We signed the Paris Peace treaty! That proves we won!
7. McDonald's in Hanoi = Victory
8. Muh Kill/Death ratio!
9. We stopped the spread of Communism!
10. Vietnamese people are pro-American so we won in the long-run!
>>1409772
I think the Americans militarily blew out the North Vietnamese overall but were misguided in fighting an insurgency and were not pursuing policies that were turning over the hearts and minds of the local populace
Always find it funny when fellows Brits bring up the Malayan Emergency and say "haha we're so much better than Murikkka" when they aren't really comparable.
>>1409803
>and were not pursuing policies that were turning over the hearts and minds of the local populace
You seem to think Commie governments that control extensive territory aren't good at propaganda, especially within that territory.
>>1409818
What the fuck are you talking about? The Americans were not as effective in turning the population to their side as the North was, yes that's what I said, what's wrong with you you fucking cunt?
>>1409824
You imply by "misguided" that America could have done a lot better than it did in Vietnam by "winning hearts and minds."
When anyone with half a brain knows that we were never going to beat the Communists at that. Most Vietnamese simply saw the North as liberators and the Southern government as Colonial traitors.
>>1409835
What country are you from you dumb cunt, you need to fucking learn to read proper English
>>1409835
no they didn't, the communists were notoriously brutal in the their treatment of people and committed lots of massacres that don't receive anywhere near the amount of publicity that american atrocities have. there was even a mass movement of people from north to south after vietnam was divided. unfortunately the us was unwilling to invade the north.
America went there to try (and fail) to destroy the independent communist government. It had nothing to do with France.
