>how do you want your civilization senpai?
JUST
It was pretty good while it lasted.
It took centuries before it all turned to shit spectacularly.
Why did the elite of non-European countries fear modernization so much? Was technology really that much of a threat to their authority? It's not like guns and tactics are intertwined with Western philosophy.
>>1403626
The Conservatives feared the foreign aspect of modernization, not the technology itself.
Also its a Mao Period meme to say that teh Qingz did not try to modernize. They did but the politics of Tianxia turned against them after a famine, mismanagement of weak emperors, losses to foreigners, and a huge rebellion. So a lot of people were trying to remove Qing as opposed to trying to maintain it.
Let's throw in Chinese nationalism to the mix for fun.
>>1403626
Guns can be used against the establishment, though.
>>1403651
Not if the establishment has all the guns, you dumb hick.
>>1403648
To be honest, the Mao era meme said that the Qing weren't strong enough to modernize, rather than being totally against it.
I'm also concerned that according to /his/ the Qing didn't have guns, for some reason.
>>1403655
Foreigners arming exclusively the establishment makes little sense from an imperialist and economic standpoint, I'm arming both sides and making sure whichever is most loyal to me wins, my dear non-dumb non-hick.
>>1401842
I just like how it's a straight line between China and Korea. It's like the Koreans said to the Chinese: "If you cross this line *draws line on ground with foot* I will insult your mother"
>>1401842
>queen in a sink basin
>>1403666
You don't have to have a European power giving you thousands of guns and canons, Satan. You just need to buy a few and reverse engineer them like Japan did. Also pay some old alcoholic military vets to advise your military.
Well the fact that the Qing were foreigners themselves keeping the Han man down didn't endear them to the population at large. In Japan the emperor was the ultimate symbol of Japaneseness, in China the Manchu Emperor was the symbol of the destruction of Han political power (the Ming).
>>1403651
The average Chinese person in Qing China and in preceding dynasties was armed, Cletus.
They were supposed to help law enforcement in a particularly vast country where the Army garrison may not be able to reach you in time from the fortified cities & regional provincial capitals in case you were being robbed by bandits. If you live in a rural backwater, it was part of your job to defend yourself AND arrest criminals, and the Government sent a legal official with basic military training to be judge jury and executioner for your villagemates whenever you rounded up the local posse to catch malcontents.
Also why the Chinese historically could easily rebel versus JUSTing Dynasties.
>>1403700
>in China the Manchu Emperor was the symbol of the destruction of Han political power (the Ming).
That's implying Chinese Nationalism existed throughout Qing reign.
In reality, the Manchu Emperor of Qing had Mandate of Heaven and was rightful Chink Emperor.
Bringing peace, justice, and security to your new empire (your new empire?) was all it took to be Emperor of China in the eyes of even the Han. Hence Mongols and Manchus were able to become one.
>>1403718
>Mandate of Heaven
this idea was brought back from the hyper religious west by xiongu1,huns2,mongols3,manchus4,current lasting dynasty of xiao
damn cavalry arch techs..
>>1403718
Ah fair enough. But once 19th century nationalism reached East Asia, the Han hatred of Manchus came back with a vengeance. Look at how the Taiping considered Manchus to be literal demons and slaughtered them to the last whenever they took a city.
I guess I should have continued my example to say, to Japanese nationalists they could rally around their Emperor, to Chinese Han nationalists the Emperor was the enemy.
>>1403724
Lolno. Divine Right is younger than Mandate and I doubt Xiongnu ever visited the west.
>>1403728
To be fair, a dynasty's foreigness becomes utilized when it starts fucking up even earlier than Nationalism. Mongols for example.
>Yuan Dynasty at its height.
Praise the Emperor.
>Yuan Dynasty at its decline
OMG steppe ppl in the throne!
>>1403728
>the Han hatred of Manchus came back with a vengeance
The Taiping rebellion was put down by ethnic Han.
Boxers were pro Qing not anti Manchu.
>>1403718
>In reality, the Manchu Emperor of Qing had Mandate of Heaven and was rightful Chink Emperor.
Yeah ignore those writings all throughout the Qing period that was anti-Manchu
Can't have that in my theory about Chinks being submissive strongmen worshippers, nope.
>>1403758
>The Taiping rebellion was put down by ethnic Han.
Because the Eight Banners were severely weakened
They also sent Han generals to put down Hui and Uyghur rebellions
>>1403772
>Because the Eight Banners were severely weakened
So were the Green Standard.
>They also sent Han generals to put down Hui and Uyghur rebellions
Universal anti Manchu sentiment is a meme.
Qing had the support of the local gentry.
People act like as if there were no rebellions/massacres prior to the Qing.
>>1403758
Boxers were pro-Chinese. Cixi supported them so they were pro-Manchu, but if she had not, then they would have been anti-Qing.
>>1403828
My point is they weren't anti Qing. History is a lot more complicated than Han vs Manchu.
>>1403767
>Can't have that in my theory about Chinks being submissive strongmen worshippers, nope.
You do know the Mandate of Heaven has a strong public recognition aspect to it.
The same masses that acknowledge you have it will be the same cunts that will rebel against you. This isnt "Eastern Despotism" bullshit, its how Mandate works for the Chinese.
>>1403669
That's the Yalu river, you dolt. Also, Chaoxian was a Qing dependency and the Chaoxian King formally received seals off office from the Qing Emperor as if he were a subordinate and part of the Qing bureacracy.
>that cheeky inset of the south china sea
WE
WUZ
ISLANDERS
>>1404197
Joseon was really WE WUZ MINGS AN SHIT too lol. They looked down on the Qing as uncivilized Manchus (whom they had their own long history of war with) and they preserved the Ming court rites, clothing, and even used the Ming legal code.
they barely lost anything wtf...
mongolia and a bunch of turkestan desert is nothing
>>1407146
nigga you don't understand
>>1403655
Yes, because it's very hard to rob the guns from them. Dumbfuck.
Wasn't what IRA did? They killed police officers and rob their weapons to fight the English monarchy.
Wasn't what the Algeria guerillas did it as well against France?
Fidel Casto's army did it as well.
kek are you that stupid to think that just because people don't have guns they will not do what's necessary to get them?
