Will Iran secularize in our lifetime, at least de facto?
>>1397603
Possibly, Iran seems like a weird place. I think I remember seeing something like the government pays, with the people's money, for sex change operations since it's better then sodomy.
>>1397608
Yeah, that's a real thing.
Iranians are surprisingly not-racist but their homophobia is pretty off-the-charts even in urban centers.
>>1397619
>Iranians are surprisingly non-racist
Kek. Confirmed for never having met an Iranian.
They're easily as racist as Indians and Chinese, perhaps almost as much as Turks even.
>>1397640
t. Faisal bin Salman ibn Saud Al-Saud
>>1397645
That isn't my name.
>>1397640
They want every Saudi alive to be strangled to death and think afghans/pashtuns are backwards and dumb. They're probably not crazy about Turks either but no one is.
That's about it. They dont give a fuck otherwise.
>>1397653
So do most Americans.
>>1397650
t. Mohammed
Statistically like a 60% chance im right
>>1397669
Are either of us wrong?
>>1397603
I think so, in that the Ayatollah will no longer be the Supreme Leader, but I doubt that will make a big difference both in the level of religious conservatism in society or the level of democracy in Iran. The Middle East is still volatile and doesn't look to be improving anytime soon, and conservative Islam doesn't seem to be declining either. A military one-party state, like Syria or Iraq was, seems most likely; they will probably work with religious leaders and conservatives to make sure society remains stable, allowing for private application of Sharia law.
>>1397619
>Iranians are surprisingly not-racist
Nah, we're racist as fuck, especially against Saudi Arabians and Turks. But, most of us are open-minded enough to be convinced to be non-racist
I hope not. There's a ton of corruption in the govt, it becoming secular would sure as fuck not come through peaceful means. I'd rather die not seeing a secular Iran than see it become like Iraq or Syria due to infighting and violence
I doubt it, the Ayatollah has a ton of sway in the region (as will his successor), you'd be surprised
>>1399955
If only you were open-minded enough to not be Russian proxies
>>1399975
The Iranian relationship with Russia is born of necessity. Murrica bullies literally everybody who doesn't play nice with its girlfriends Israel and S Arabia
>>1399988
Murrica bullies countries who kill journalists and have rape chambers for female protesters
>>1399979
What did you mean by this?
If you're trying to say this is proof of a nuclear weapons program, the IAEA has proved that repeatedly not to be the case
If you think Iranians don't like the US, you're somewhat right. Most political people dislike the US, but most people, as in all places, don't give a fuck about grudges or politics
>>1397653
>They want every Saudi alive to be strangled
that's pretty understandable though
>>1400003
You mean like S Arabia, the ideological source of groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda? The same country that's killed thousands of children in Yemen with bomb attacks?
I appreciate your idealism, but to insinuate the US is trying to spearhead moral goodness, especially in the Middle East, is incredibly naive.
>>1400025
http://www.barenakedislam.com/2009/08/16/young-iranian-woman-arrested-but-not-charged-then-brutalized-raped-and-sodomized-in-prison/
Don't you have IED's to be making?
>>1400046
Do you know how corrupt Irans govt is?
Rape is a crime punishable by death in Iran--odds are that those guys just receive a blind eye in exchange for some favors, especially so since they're IRGC. They're not exactly paraded up and down the street for raping someone. The govt is making concerted efforts to remedy the corruption problem, as opposed to certain US allies, who are content with things staying the way they are in the M East.
>barenakedislam
Don't you have some sophist arguments to be making?
>>1397603
Yeah I can see it happening for sure.
Can't say the same for it's neighbours though
>>1397645
t. Alireza Hossein Mehranbezinzadeh
>>1397603
If militancy dies, then yes
Shia authority is based in Iran. And without the theocratic institutions shias will be shoahed.
It wont secularize until the middle east finally civilizes, which wont happen if...
1. Saudis are in control and monarchies still exist in the area.
2. Mecca is owned by a nation instead of being am extranational entity
>>1397608
Yes but still the trannies are treated like faggots to ebe honest.
>>1397603
I strongly hope that the situation gets better for this beautiful country, and having travelled there I'm quite optimistic about it. Saying it will secularize is expecting too much though. Maybe the cities or parts of the cities will, to some degree, since some groups of the urban society are already quite secularized.
>>1400102
>the government is making a concerted effort to stop corruption
Are you claiming that you are personally acquainted with the internal policies of the Iranian government?
>>1397645
That is the best one of these I have seen
Unlikely. Not without another revolution.
The Islamic Republic is here to stay, and Vilayat-e Faqih isn't going away anytime soon. Iranians want more freedoms, but they're perfectly happy being Islamic.
Sorry, Iranian expats, but hey, the US is better anyway.
>Will a theocracy secularize when it was established in an overthrow of a secularized govt.
Cmon man
>>1400792
I think the spirit of the question is valid; could we see the islamic aspects of Iran's governance become toothless to the point of being de facto non-existent?
We're not asking if they'll have an outright regime change, we're asking if the current government will liberalize to the point of contemporary western standards.
Maybe by the end of our lives.
The Iranian youth are a lot more liberal than the elders, and they will become the next wave of politicians, and so forth. The entire world is liberalising because its just much more fun than shitty religious indoctrination and NO FUN ALLOWED lifestyles.
>>1400792
madder shit has happened
>>1400003
lmao get a load of this bluepill redditor
Shah dindu NUFFIN wrong. Or remember that time where the US played both sides of the Iran Iraq war and gave no shits when chemical weapons were used against the Iranians? Fucking kys
>>1397669
We want to glass the entire region. 50% of our adults dont even know the names saudi arabia, iran, qatar, kuwait.
>>1401224
Iran hates the u.s. They are one of the most u.s. hating countrues on the planet, alongside palestine, russia and pakistan
Need to be invaded again. Uppity cunts.
>>1401262
>Pakistan
What reason do they have for hating America?
>>1401262
They hate it for good reason though.
>>1397603
Yes, but it will probably be bloody. They have a largely secular youth, but a huge number of literal psychos who think that martyrdom for the faith is the highest honour. They threw themselves in ridiculous human waves at Saddams army and just died in their thousands, no weapons or anything just tonnes of kids marching in a wave into the iraqi lines, dying from gunfire, from mines, from electric traps, from nearly everything, just marching and dying. It was apparently pretty effective as the iraqis were completely traumatised by having to kill thousands of defenceless kids.
Metal af.
>>1401309
That generation is old now though. The ones who aren't dead, of course. The generations that never suffered the war, not even as children, are in their mid-late twenties now.
>>1397603
I certainly hope so.
>tfw no qt persian gf
>>1401262
Almost everyone I've met from there has been a normal, decent person. They are one of the only countries that nationals can't get US social security if the reemigrate back to Iran. The US literally defrauds people who pay into the system, simply due to their nationality. The only other countries this happens to are North Korea, and Cuba.
>>1397619
Not racists against asians, mexicans, black, etc. But racists against arabs and their neighbors, kek.
Khamenei's gonna go soon. Who he picks as his replacement will be the answer to this question.
He picks his son, Mojtaba, and people will definitely seek some sort of reform. They'll accuse the position of becoming hereditary like the Shah's regime was, repulsing the old and young alike.
He picks a reformist, and I can see the govt lasting a century or so, slowly reforming in pace with the (hopefully) increasing stabilization of the nation's economy.
He picks a militant sort of guy, probably a little younger than himself, and shit may escalate both domestically and with the Saudis.
Or maybe he becomes an absolute madman and dissolves the position in his will (though I highly doubt it). Who knows?
>>1397603
No.
Upper-Middle Class Tehranfags and Delusional Diaspora are in a minority, majority of the country is very conservative, and rural birthrates are way above the urban educated elite. I expect the country to become more religious as the voting base of the rural-undereducated-religious masses grow, same with Turkey.
>>1397603
Maybe
I dunno if anyone here watches that hack Anthony Bourdain, but he got granted the right to film a show in Iran, and the people were actually very nice and moderate, despite the "kill america" propaganda lining the streets
They seem like people who are aware of their own situation, just too scared to make a move against religious police and an authoritative government
Also food looks amazing
>>1402529
for every moderate there are 10 religious folk, where do you think religious police come from?
>>1400003
Murrica also backs up widespread Pedophilia in the Iraqi army & police force and its well fuckin documented literally ask any soldier whos been there
So your point is...?
>>1402546
fair enough
What in your opinion, is the ratio of moderate to religious folk?
>>1397603
Probably not, the temptation will be there though to do so though.
But when they look at america, they see how kids play violent video games that revolve around murder, how we have a society that actually glorifies the violence that's frequent in that part of the world, how we glorify sex and basically preach consumption.
You have to assume they examine us as hard as we examine them....and can pin point the true uneasiness and unhappiness a lot of westerners display. Lyrics to certain types of music that the west produces etc etc
Basically it's going to come down to their conviction, if it snaps, then sure...they'll secularize.
>>1397603
I doubt it. Maybe the big cities like Tehran, Isfahan, Shiraz etc. (Tehran is already pretty secular from what I've heard) but the rural parts of the country are very very religious and due to the rugged geography there is little chance of wide scale urbanization as there was in Europe.
>>1397603
It already was secularized before the CIA decided to install the Shah.
>>1402830
>install
>Shah
>>1397608
>>1397619
Oy vey, why do they not accept my fetish?
Just get over it, gay culture was one of the reasons the west is completely fucked in a societal and cultural sense, it gave rise to all the other shit. Nobody blames you for loving another man but just do it at home, where everyone else with self respect lives out his sexuality as well
>>1402566
11+ years old isnt pedophilia
>>1399979
Daily reminder that the U.S shot down a Civilian Iranian Aeroplane, killing Iranian civilians
>>1404600
My post didn't have much to do with fags in the west. I just think it's absurd that Iran uses the people's money to pay for the luxuries of a small group of mentally ill people.
>>1398373
Nope, we should be friends!
>>1397603
Much of Irans apparatus of state are already secular in their daily functioning, the clergy/religious bureaucracy duplicates much of the welfare state and social services in a totally unaccountable fashion, so auditing and reform would be beneficial.
>>1404600
>just do it at home, where everyone else with self respect lives out his sexuality as well
then why do strip clubs exist?
>those noses
And they hate the Jews?
>>1407028
The government does.
The people don't care, or find it funny that jews and arabs are killing each other.
In fact I'm actually sure they hate arabs a lot more.
>>1400836
A lot of islamic countries tried to liberalize 100 years ago though, but apparently muslims are just retarded and they don´t want to liberalize
>>1407028
It always been a Semetic/Roman trait though
>>1407028
They hate Israel, there are still some Jews in Iran although not many.
No. As long Iran keeps a supreme system based on Ja'afari sharia it's impossible to become secular, unlike above posts, actual Iran seems to be impenetrable and strong.
>>1397603
It's far closer to it than any other middle eastern country.
>>1397653
Apparently I'm Iranian and didn't know it.
