>>1391759
Well duh, Mongols weren't particularly culturally intrusive either, generally speaking, being a not very advanced nomadic culture and all. I wouldn't be so sure about Ottoman influence, however.

It's more than their invasion sparked change in Europe rather than direct influence

>>1391968
>>1391986
Ok they weren't intrusive, and yes the invasions facilitated change and opened commerce routes in the long run etc, but when you face an army in that period is not like you just meet up at the designated killing street and fight. There's scouting from both sides and interactions that might lead to cultural appropiations.

It would be very impressive indeed if the hungarian people didn't learn a thing or two from an obvious superior military culture. That involves learning about their weapon systems, tactics and logistics (which includes clothing and food).

>>1391759
In "The Origins of Political Order," Francis Fukuyama claims that the tendency of Russian leaders to adopt despotic tactics towards their subordinates can be partially traced back to the Mongol invasion. I don't have his book with me but it was extensively cited so I guess there is an argument to be made that the Mongols left some sort of impression on Eastern Europe.

>>1392148
A shame that Fukuyama isn't a historian like at all.

>>1392148
>muh Asian despotism
It's meme bro. A 2500 year old meme but a meme.

>>1392148
Mongol control over what'll then become Russia was way stronger than even on Kingdom of Halych-Volhynia, let alone fucking Hungary.

>>1391759
Mongols were a bunch of bitches that couldn't deal with stone walls and Euro-Knights:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortress_of_Klis#Mongol_siege

Dudes couldn't even take the citadel of Esztergom.

>>1392148
>LE EASTERN DESPOTISM
You do realize that bullshit stemmed from the Greeks right?

Who ended up having kings and even worshipping them when they died? Funny how the Persians whom they memed as "despots" didnt even do that god-king shit.

>>1392205
>Dudes couldn't even take the citadel of Esztergom.

Yeah, they just burned down the whole country instead to the point that the Hungarian King of the time was called "The Builder" for all the shit he had to fix.

>>1392216
Still they failed to take the citadel. Hungarian realized and so they fortified their borders with castles the Mongols couldn't take on the next invasion.

>>1392205
Reminder that the mongols Bela faced were merely scouting the place. They were around 25k troops at most and had to go back after Ogedei's death. Look at what they did to Bagdad.

>>1392189

I didn't mean to imply that it was a Hungarian thing. In the book he seemed to imply that it was mostly limited to Russian rulers who would harass neighboring peoples.

>>1391759
What? Like Steak Tatar? Which isn't really Mongol?

>>1392267
>Tatar

It's named after Tatars who supposedly ate raw flesh.
And Tatars weren't even Mongols.

>>1392168

Does one need to be a historian to appreciate and evaluate historical sources? It's not like he's an uneducated rube, or a scholar in a completely unrelated field, his knowledge of history likely dwarfs that of anyone on this board.

>>1392283
>Does one need to be a historian to appreciate and evaluate historical sources
Yes. This is actually what you need historians for. Dude always had a clear agenda (given his background and stuff) and his "historical" thesis merely serve the purpose of spreading it. Not that there is something inherently wrong with this. (American) political scientist often operate like that. Historian shouldn't.
Anyway we were talking about a very specific thing and citing Fukuyama here who clear is not expert in that field doesn't work for me at all.

>>1392339
So we disregard every opinion that does not come from a certified historian? I think you need to step up your argumentative game anon

>>1392148
I dont know if that specifically is true but if the Mongols influenced anyone in Europe it would be the russians