Why can't pan-slavism work?
All rebelled against each other as part of Yugoslavia, Ukrainians rebelled against Poland when under Polish control, all rebelled against Russia when under Russian control.
It's inherently Orthodox.
because slavs are fucking savages that' why
Panslavism is simply another form of multiculturalism. There is no pan-slavic culture. Sharing a linguistic family is nowhere near the same thing.
You're asking distinct peoples with very different histories to pretend like those histories don't exist and to superimpose some sort of manufactured unity that never arose organically through time and natural institutions. You leftist scum.
>>1385916
>very different histories
that's wrong though
>>1385949
It isn't. A Central Bohemian does not have the same cultural history as a Pomor in Novgorod. And there is no reason why they should pretend otherwise.
>>1385916
They share common histories for sure. It's international organizations which encourage self-determination and the breakup of multinational states. The german romanticist movement contained many right and nationalistic leaning pan-germanists including Friedrich Ratzel and Rudolk Kjéllan. Pan-slavism hasn't worked mostly because one east-slavic group sought domination without being an exemplary leader as well as following leftist ideas of internationalism, making all previous cultural unions pointless.
You Wilsonian-idealist scum.
>he thinks creating an artificial multiculturalist state ignoring historical, political, cultural, religious, economic, and natural boundaries is "realism"
My understanding is the problem with pan-slavnism is that instead of making a united language thats a mix of all of them, the biggest language instead just tries to force its own language down everyone elses throats.
>>1385878
Because Of
1) Religious differences
2) Outside Forces with interests
3) Russia wanting complete power and unwillingness to see other slavs as Equals
4) Nationalism
Only Reason why it worked with Germany is because Prussia wiped out all of the local Powers except for Austria who was kicked out and Bavaria who.......well I am not sure why Bavarians nationalism never grow too powerful
>>1385999
You forgot to mention that the German states spoke the same language. There is no pan-slavic language.
>>1386006
Russian :))))))))))
>>1386009
Then Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Kyrgyzstan can form their own pan-slavic state. Enjoy your massive pan-slavic utopia.
>>1386006
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interslavic_language
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovio
>>1386017
You're one of those morons who thinks that Esperanto is really going to take off, aren't you?
>>1386017
it's a meme
>>1386018
Interslavic looks like it has potential.
>>1386023
Potential for what? No one speaks it. No one wants to. It's not going to happen.
Slavs are not united by a language. The Germans and Italians were. Panslavism is a pipe dream.
>>1385899
who hates themselves more? sand people or slavs?
>>1386031
>Panslavism is an outgrowth of Russian imperialism.
FTFY
t. Pole
>>1386031
All you need is to try.
Romans were united, Brits are united, the US is united. What special rule prevents Slavs from uniting and creating a Slavic utopian superpower?
>>1386043
>Brits are united
Which is mainly caused by Scots fucking Up their own Economy on a failed colony to the point that They had to bend over to Nigel McAnglo
Even then British Identity is falling apart right now
>>1386043
>Slavic utopian superpower
>>1386043
>All you need is to try.
but why? everyone knows this would end with russification of all slavs
because they don't care about culture ; only themselves
>>1386043
>Romans were united
By conquest.
>Brits are united
By conquest.
>the US is united
By liberalism. And conquest.
I you want panslavism to work you basically want the USSR back. The fucking Russians conquer everything and impose their language and culture. Fuck that.
Your post only proves my point again: there is no pan-slavic culture from which to form a nation. There can only be empire. And for a variety of historical, cultural, political, and religious reasons, it will never work. The Czechs are far more likely to join Germany than Russia. I doubt the Croats or Slovenes would care to join, either.
>>1386054
we could exclude russia from the picture but then we'd end up with huge polefication
we could exclude poles but then we'd end up with ukrainisation
we could exclude ukrainians but then we'd end up with serbofication
we could exclude serbs but then we'd end up with croatification
etc. etc.
>>1386053
beautiful
>>1386057
The USSR hosted many non-slavic states while missing out on certain important slav ones. The Baltics and turkic Kazakhstan were part of the USSR while the soutwest slav Yugoslavia wasn't.
>>1386061
no, because only russia would be powerful enough to succesfuly subjugate another slavic cultures
but then, pretty much only russia wants panslavism
>>1386076
Yes, and?
>>1385878
Because its just similliar language and culture, not same ethnic composition. Who would think that people that dont look the same will not like each other?
>>1385916
Pan-anythingism is always rightist
>>1386099
The USSR wasn't a pan-slavic empire.
>>1385983
>that stealth Ukrainian flag
>>1386105
it doesn't matter
the idea stays the same: the fucking Russians conquer everything and impose their language and culture
>>1386101
Except it's not. Unless you're prepared to argue that, for instance, the EU is a right-wing phenomenon.
>>1386118
it was created as such
>>1386112
So slavs would rather be conquered by the USA instead of Russia?
>>1386129
some of them, probably
>>1386124
So you're an idiot, is what you're saying.
>>1386135
nice argument m9
>>1386129
Does it matter? The question was about pan-slavism. The answer was that it is a pipe-dream based on the notion that Russia conquers all the slavic peoples. Your answer is, "yeah, but that means they weren't conquered by Americans." It's kind of irrelevant to the question, don't you think?
>>1386135
He isn't wrong if you exclude tje British Right
European Nationalists thought they should unite to avoid being Cucked by Soviets and Americans
>>1386141
I'm not the one claiming that the EU is a right-wing phenomenon.
>>1386129
Let's be realistic, the USA doesn't conquer anyone, at worst the memes about evil illuminati financiers might be true, but Poland is developing quite rapidly so it is at least a step up.
Russia is the natural big brother of the slavs and should have guided them after they finally broke free of their abusive father, but basically he's still acting like a vodka swilling douche into his mid 20s while his brothers are trying to sort their lives out. His relationship with the Ukraine has turned sour just because the Ukraine took Poland's advice and enrolled in community college instead of squatting with Russia and Belarus like they usually do. Russia has nothing to offer them, it is his own fault. You can't really blame le evil USA for stepping in. Of course they are going to do so if you give them the opportunity.
So to speak.
>>1386150
united europe is generally right-wing idea
unless you think that nationalism defines right-wing (but that's wrong)
>>1386076
>hosted
In the same way I host the women in my cellar?
>>1386158
post pics plz
>>1385878
Can pan-Caucasianism work?
What about pan-Latino-ism, or pan-Sinicism, or pan-Arabism
>>1386149
Yes, the Vlaams Belang envision a booming pan-European union. As do Jobbik. And Prawo i Sprawiedliwość. And the FPÖ. And Golden Dawn. And Svoboda. Right wing parties are notoriously in favor of pan-European unions.
>>1386167
You say "pan-European union", but you mean "Bring back Grossdeutschland".
>>1386167
they're nationalist, which is not necessarily right-wing
also they're not opposing the idea of united europe, just current eu
>>1386161
The darkness has made them extremely photo-sensitive, so flash photography is out of the question. Sorry, buddy.
Yugoslavia did work for a while, but it collapsed because of bureaucratic corruption and centralisation of power with one group.
As long as each member group feels independant and has an equal share of power, a federal structure could work e.g. EU for slavs.
civic nationalism would be the political ideology, as it was in rome, as it is in current multicultural states.
it is probably impossible seeing as you cant please everyone, and someone will always feel like they are chaffing at the bit of servitide.
i dont buy the argument that different history = impossible union. everyone in the balkans thought of themselves as greek or christian until 200 eyars ago when the ethnic/nationalist identities came into formation.
a loose coalition with no binding legal powers is probably the only possible/desirable thing for regional cohesion at the moment.
>>1386172
Precisely the opposite. "Bring back Großdeutschland" is much more analogous to panslavism than the EU is. And again, panslavism is retarded in that it doesn't even have a common language to rally around.
>>1386201
>until 200 eyars ago
that's also history
>>1386201
>The difference being that there isn't even anything close to being a common political or economic interest between all the Slavic nations, and there never will. If your union isn't based on slavic identity, then what the fuck do you intend to base it on, and still call it pan-slavic?
There is no reason for a pan-slavic union to arise. That's why it never has and never will arise.
>>1386211
Ah fuck. Dunno how that > got there. Too much vodka, am I right?
>I'm slavic and vodka isn't a thing for us
>>1386211
>There is no reason for a pan-slavic union to arise.
Greater Serbia :))
Even greater Russia :))
>>1386031
italians are not united by language
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Italy
"most regional languages in Italy are better classified as separate languages descended independently from Latin, rather than "dialects" of the Standard Italian language.[6][7]
There are several minority languages that belong to other Indo-European branches, such as Cimbrian (Germanic), Arbëresh (Albanian), the Slavomolisano dialect of Serbo-Croatian (Slavic), and Griko (Hellenic)."
>>1386221
Many seem to think that The Romans wiped out other Italic or even Latin groups when they actually didn't
>>1386217
>Greater Serbia
Yep, all Slavs are Serbs. I'll bet you've got a ton of Sorbs and Moravians and Poles hanging out there.
>Even greater Russia
A disease which exists only in the minds of Russians. No one else in the Slavic world wants this or has any reason to join in. Again, this isn't a refutation of the point that there is no reason for a pan-slavic union to arise. You may want it, but you aren't in charge of any major Slavic political group.
>>1385878
>>1386217
A book published in 2010 forecast a new Cold War and the formation of an eastern european millitary block led by Poland in opposition to Russia, and that said block would later help develop Poland into an influential European and then eventually worldwide superpower.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Next_100_Years
So a pan-slavic union led by a Greater Poland might happen after all.
>>1385878
Did pan~anything ever worked?
>>1386241
Pan-Gaelicism was popular in the 13th and 14th centuries but for obvious reasons it never really panned out
![zx620_2791595[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/gm6uoes.jpg "zx620_2791595[1].jpg")
It didn't happen before Christianity, it won't happen now. It could only be an Orthodox Christianity thing these days, which excludes some slavs, and includes some non-slavs.
![zx620_2791596[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/qWKU7Mx.jpg "zx620_2791596[1].jpg")
![zx620_2791597[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/XHgeFK5.jpg "zx620_2791597[1].jpg")
![zx620_2791598[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/h2sNeFE.jpg "zx620_2791598[1].jpg")
Gunna post a few more pictures for ants, courtesy of Reuters.
![zx620_2791599[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/qUIvt8H.jpg "zx620_2791599[1].jpg")
![zx620_2791603[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/uNUPaA6.jpg "zx620_2791603[1].jpg")
![zx620_2791607[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/2J3mp3k.jpg "zx620_2791607[1].jpg")
L-lewd....
>>1386230
Fuck that. Poles are only slightly better than ruskies.
![zx620_2791609[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/vsuOpny.jpg "zx620_2791609[1].jpg")
Years of only eating vodka and tobacco smoke left these 30 year old women looking pretty dry.
![zx620_2791610[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/pMNGZ0L.jpg "zx620_2791610[1].jpg")
Okay, I'm bored, enough slav paganism.
>>1386260
Not only that, but it's much less likely to happen around Orthodoxy than it would if most Slavs were Catholic. Which many are.
>>1386057
We czechs certainly are more likely to join russia. Our society was ridden of most germanic population and identity as was possibly after end of ww2, socialist marx theory supporters are still alive and remembering, not to forget the modern disdained state of germanistan as is widely viewed by most of the population.
![zx620_2791600[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/kzx6s5I.jpg "zx620_2791600[1].jpg")
>>1386280
The Orthodox Christianity circle can't even get all members to show up for a meeting once every 50 years, let alone wield any meaningful political power.
>>1386274
>thong
Absolutely disgusting.
>>1386281
Most czech people online insist they aren't slavs, and are western leaning germanic type people.
Same as the slovenians, occasionally the croatians, and more rarely the polish.
>>1386278
>>1386295
I don't have that experience. It's not so much that Czechs don't identify as slavs as much as they don't identify with Eastern Europe. Which is entirely correct. They have nothing in common with Eastern Europe. They were a critical part of the HRE and the Austrian empire, and a thoroughly Catholic country.
And thus, they have no ties at all to Russia, and no reason to join Russia over Germany. This myth only exists in the minds of Russians and Internet panslavists.
>>1386230
>armored robotic battle suits for infantrymen that run on solar power.
The author sounds like an idiot, let's check it...
>George Friedman (born February 1, 1949) is an internationally recognized geopolitical forecaster and strategist on international affairs.
Yep. He is an idiot.
>>1386277
This. Given half a chance Poles rarely forgo a land-grab.
Hey, neighbouring Western Slavic, Catholic Czechoslovakia is being ripped to pieces? Time to grab Zaolzie!
They have the ambitions of Germany with none of the engineering or discipline, and the greed of Russia with none of the resources of manpower.
The mentality is not lacking.
>>1386445
Also look at the Kiev Offensive
They literally started a war, Got beaten up all the way to their capital and managed a victory their and pretend to be victims
>>1386454
Well, desu, fighting the Reds is a commendable endeavour with any pretext. So I wouldn't hold that against them - especially since the part of Ukraine that ended up being Poland fared much better in the Interbellum.
If you want moments of Polacks beings dicks just for the sake of beings Polacks - look at the number they pulled on Vilnius 1920-1922.
Then again - the Lithuanians were cunts in their own right, in annexing Memel... just because, and even occupied the Ilūkste district of what is now Latvia in 1920.
And then, when the local squabbling was done, it was all promptly gobbled up by the Soviets anyway.
it's not like anyone has been cool in first half of 20th century
>euromutt
>have ancestors from various parts of europe (vulgar latin, anglo, celt, hellenic, germanic .. even some ashkenazi)
>no slavs
>:^( damnit!
Is this what getting really into trading card games or pokemon is like? (got, got, need, got, don't want etc)
I am pretty good at squatting though .....
>>1386517
I really quite want to do some form of genetic testing, but that shit is ridiculously expensive to order to Europe. Like $150 + $120 shipping.
>>1386502
Slavs aren't a genetic group but a linguistic one.
Balts share genetics with north-east russians but they're not considered slavs because they don't speak slovo.
>>1386538
Latvian share more genetically with Estonians than Lithuanians.
Anyway, don't you mean Nort-Western Russians, Novgorod & such?
Because Slavs have fuck all to do with each other apart from speaking slavic languages.
>>1386031
What we call italian is the language spoken in the Piamonte. The difference with the "dialects" can't be compared with that between czech and russian, but it's okay comparing it with the difference between ukranian and russian.
>>1386553
>Anyway, don't you mean Nort-Western Russians, Novgorod & such?
Yeah, my bad.
>>1386162
What is China if not pan-sinicism? Pan-arabism failed exclusively due to external affairs with little relation with pan-arabism that left pan-arabist rulers without prestige.
oh look it's another >slavs are a singular hivemind entity episode
>>1385916
Thank you. I'm tired of all those panslavists trying to destroy their own nations for "muh slavic brotherhood"
>>1385878
The only way to make this real would be to exclude Russia and her mongol muslim population, and to abandon this Jewish religion which is christianity for the Ethnic Slavic Faith.
>>1387015
You suggest everyone becomes Muslim or just a Bosnian-Kosovan union?
>>1385878
Because:
Russians intent to mold almost any ethnicity they share country with into russians.
Poles are same as russians in terms of minority management but they lack their power.
Belarusians and ukrainians are nations that are constantly kicked aroud since their moder-nation-building began, and panslavism would not stabilize anything.
Czechs would like to lead, not rule, but they are historically burned out.
Slovaks are willing to accept almost any boot on them but after few years they can become threateningly sour about it.
Sorbs will not see second half of this century.
Problems with south slavs are probably clear at this point.
Slavs are simly only a language group. Panslavism died with Russian empire's dealing with Congress Poland.
>>1385916
It's amazing the amount of idiots who think Poles and Czechs have more in common with Russians and Serbians than they do with Germans. It's like they think eastern Europe's history is just the 20th century and nothing else.
>>1387606
Original was better.
>>1386301
Honestly, despite the fact that I think panslavism is laughably retarded, this is the one thing I think all slavs can rally around. Babičkas are lovely and beautiful in their own right.
Because "slavs" literally do not exist.
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?12607-Slawenlegende-(Exposing-Pan-Slavic-lies)
>>1388216
> european
> cultural
> community
Daily reminder I am more similar to Nikolay, living 5000km away in Novosibirsk than Gritte, my cousing twice removed, living 5km across the border.
>>1386445
Beck offer pepiks alliance against Germany but they capitulate. So Poles take land that pepiks take when Poles were fighing reds in 1920.
Blame Czechs for being surrender monkey and backstabbers in first place.
>>1386454
Kiev offensive started with alliance of western Ukrainians and against reds. Poles want to install friendly regime in Kiev not grab it for themselves.
>>1386494
The Lithuanians were so afraid of Polish cultural superiority that they ally with reds against Poles. Wilno in 1916(by German occupation force) have like 3% Lithuanians. Heck city was taken by Polish units formed from local Poles.
Not even mention that before whole hostility started Pilsudki try ally or form union with Lithuanians.
Lithuanians only get number in Wilno after war(massacre of jews and Poles and then repatriate of rest Poles). Dumb lithuanians prefer reds than poles and deserve Soviet dicking.
>>1387606
But slavs are not cucks like germanics.
Must be that Mongol blood.
>>1388403
Almost English: the post.
>>1388429
Want me to write in russian?
>>1388522
Why would you write in Russian on a Mongolian seamstress pen-pal collective?
>>1386445
>zaolzie
you literally tried stealing that from them while they were fighting the commie threat. how pathetic and hypocritical of the czechs to even bring it up.
>>1387606
Poor cringy shitty bait.
>>1387448
Well genetically speaking Poles do have MUCH more in common with Serbs and Russians than with their most hated enemy, Germany. And speaking of the Czech republic the eastern half should just break off and join Slovakia to form Moravia and not give another inch of ground to "immigrants" from the west. Just saying.
>>1385878
Why can't pan-Germanicism work?
Why not pan-romance?
Why not pan-bantu?
Or pan-austronesian?
>>1385878
It would just be Greater Russia famalam.
>>1385878
eh, political and economical ideologies divided us I gues. Western slavs want to be rich and part of civilised world. Eastern slavs want to be poor and isolated.
smth smth
>>1385878
Western powers preventing it from happening.
>>1385878
>Why can't pan-slavism work?
It would if you kept the Russians out.
>>1389471
more like pan-ATOK AMIRITE
Because humanity is hell-bent on decentralization.
>>1385878
Because despite what some people think, we actually are all completely different nations.
>>1386032
Slavs because sand people aren't people. At least Slavs can do decent satire.
>>1386673
Can a new rendition of pan-Arabiabism occur?
By pan-Sinicism I meant removing the SAR status of Hong Kong, and more importantly reincorporating Taiwan. My dad (who lives overseas and I don't talk to much) who works as a business consultant for Americans to make startups in China said Taiwan would've been sufficiently happy to federalise with the mainland a few years ago, but not anymore. Why's that?
>>1389471
>Hungary
>slav
>>1390477
It works until a certain stage.
Yugoslavia worked until Tito's iron hand was no more. America worked until post-modernism became the norm among common people.
>>1386031
>>1386221
>>1386629
Pre-unification Italy indeed didn't had a common tongue. Regular people all spoke their own dialects, only the intellectuals used a "universal italian"
wich derived mostly from tuscan/florentine dialect (not from Piedmont even if Italy's former royality was piedmontese). Dante Allighieri with his Commedia is considered the "father" of the italian language. Many italian writers of the 18th centuries used him as reference, like Manzoni who "washed his clothes in the Arno".
After Italy unification ufficial italian language was born but it took hold on the people with the diffusion of radio, tv and mass comunication media.
Nowaday italian dialects are dialects and not languages and are spoken only by old people, younger generations only know italian and an italianized version of their dialect. Only sardian is still considered a language.
>>1390483
America is still working although I do agree that there are problems
But even today anyone who advocates a Black Nation State would be looked at as a Black Hitler
>>1389471
Hungary is closer to Finnish than Slavic
>>1390483
Monarchies can pull it off
>>1390503
russia is finno-ugric
>>1390507
Not culturally or linguistically
>>1390098
this, I never had any problems, but as soon as I went through my family tree, I found out I'm 1/256 slav.
I got hospitalised with depression, but at least I became a standup comedian after that.
>>1386101
>Ba'athism
