What is the saddest fall of a dynasty/royal family in history?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1CTxa-FuKc
>>1385700
I'm not sure, but I favor the romanovs.
Another possibility is the Sassanids.
>>1385700
What's so sad about Qing. It's not like they were saints.
>>1385763
The Romanov did not deserve to die so gruesomely, but they were awful people, and they were usurpers.
>>1385763
Sassanids were trash though, they deserve everything happened to them
>>1385700
fall of southern song to the mongols
southern song was the height of chinese successful government and barring external conquest might have lasted a long time. they should have never allied with the mongols against the jurchen jin but I guess hindsight is 20/20.
>>1385700
Fall of aztec empire
>>1385787
>they were awful people
yeah those daughters and teenage son were totally awful assholes
>>1385700
Korean imperial family which barbarically killed by evil jap army at ww2.
And jap destroy a lot of Korean beautiful ancient art and archtecture and even they steal ancient Korean Buddha statue.
That's really sad moment of history and art history of the earth
>>1385915
This. Honestly.
>>1385700
Qings had to fall, they were bad rulers. Corruption, bad organisation and decentralisation plagued much of their later period.
Now, the Song dynasty - they deserved to rule. The Ming and Tang as well.
It was sad to see the Romans and Byzantines fall, but a good look at the last centuries of Byzantine rule shows a divided, bickering society that failed to sieze positive opportunities and weakened itself in constant civil wars. It was doomed in the face of any competent opposition.
>>1385851
The Romanov as in the family/house as such.
Awful PEOPLE, not persons, as in collectively, they were an ethicomorally corrupt family/house.
Learn to fucking read.
>>1385700
For me Korean empire which destroyed by jap is really sad war crime of history
(つ﹏<)･ﾟ｡
>>1385937
The Savoys were (and are) way worse
>>1386199
What do they have to do with Russia?
>>1385700
The Qings literally just abdicated.
There are other Chinese dynasties that werent as lucky.
Palaiologos, dying in the streets along with your soldiers fighting off roaches.
>>1385915
>tfw you will never marry a qt Korean princess
>>1386384
>implying constantine didnt die like bitch trying to escape constantinople with woman clothes
>>1386496
Fucking turkroaches
>>1385700
Nobody's going to mention the Bonapartes? Seriously?
It's true that the events surrounding their fall aren't all that sad, but what was lost is what's truly sad, what Europe was robbed of because they fell.
>>1386528
>butthurt greeks
>>1386526
The imperial family established the dynasty through both military conquest and support of the people.
The support and growth of the scholar-literati class. As well as mass expansion of imperial examinations to include people of any economic background.
The development of craftsmanship, economic sophistication, artistic pursuit.
High urbanization starts taking roots, Kaifeng during the Song dynasty starts to resemble a modern bustling metropolitan city.
Social activities diversify, things like poetry club, soccer club, horseriding club, martial arts schools, etc. start popping up all over the place.
It's basically the height of Chinese civilization. And it was way ahead the rest of the world, Europe included.
But everything changed when the Jurchen nation attacked.
>>1386556
>posting the sick man of Europe
>>1385700
Alexander´s empire.
ayy senpai that's a nice monarchy you got there, mind if i join in?
>>1385700
Braganza with Pedro II of Brazil , he was a good guy
>>1385850
He came dancing across the water...
>>1386193
boy fucker
>>1385937
>Learn to fucking read.
I did read.
You said
>The Romanov did not deserve to die so gruesomely, but they were awful people, and they were usurpers.
You specified: "die so gruesomely," which is only true for the immediate family who was executed as
>>1385700
The Solomonic Dynasty of Ethiopia.
The countries of Ethiopia and Eritrea aren't doing so well 40 years later.
(see >>1383647)
>pic By the Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah, His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I, King of Kings of Ethiopia, Elect of God (1892-1975)
>>1385700
Romanovs
The Louis dynasty
>ITT only empire dynasties
Further proof that all 4chan posters (at least in /pol/ and /newpol/ are authoritarian.
>>1387017
Dude fucked up towards the end and paved the way for Commie rebellion.
>>1385778
At their height, Qing rulers were some of the greatest rulers China ever had. Furthermore, their downfall was a slow painful process of a once glorious and powerful nation, being reduced to a giant drug market for Imperialists.
>>1386561
>One of our generals is winning battles?
>Better execute him!
Song logic, everyone.
The fall of the ancien regime Bourbon Dynasty. (not counting the restoration with its constitutional monarchy)
>Royal family imprisoned and treated similar to how the Romanovs would be treated over a century later: repeatedly harassed by guards, humiliated, threatened with death and other torments; at one point one of the king and queen's good friends is murdered and her dead head is brought to the Tower on a pike with the intent to make Marie Antoinette kiss it.
>Louis XVI executed
>Marie Antointette executed
>King's sister executed
>10 year old son violently separated from his mother, aunt and sister, forced to drink and sing revolutionary songs about his father and mother, abused and neglected, abused into accusing his aunt and mother of sexual abuse, finally dies after being left in a cell that was never cleaned for months (he got good treatment in the last weeks of his life, after the fall of Robespierre, but too late to save him)
>Teen daughter watches father be taken away and executed, little brother be taken away and abused, mother be taken away, aunt be taken away, and is left to the mercy of drunk revolutionary male guards who repeatedly harass her and come into her room in the middle of the night for "inspections" and refuse to tell her if her aunt, mother and brother are even alive
If Louis XVI had a backbone he could have pushed his reforms through decades before the revolution, eliminating it as a possibility. Or he could have stamped out the revolution with the force that Louis XIV or XV would have done. But he was so intent on making sure he didn't appear tyrannical that he left himself, and his family, and his monarchy, be ruined.
>>1386556
Did they actually conquer that part of the horn?
>>1385915
>Japan assassinates anti-Japan sphere queen
>Annex country
>Force princesses to marry Japanese dukes; most suicide or live in depression
>Last surviving successor of the Joseon Yi dynasty pressed to become IJA officer; suddenly stationed to Hiroshima just before the A-bombs drop
lmao
>>1386165
Joseon's Yi dynasty was incompetent as fuck I agree. But like what that other anon said (most likely Korean), the biggest loss during the annexation was their culture and national treasures, because they were mostly stolen and they are still in Japan's museum. Korean cultural practices (artisans, martial arts, arts in general, etc) were banned and master tradesmen were either silenced or killed. Also, many culturally and historically-significant buildings and sites were looted and/or burned during this period.
As a history autist that spergs out at any instances of historical and cultural losses (e.g. ISIS and Aleppo, China's Cultural revolution, Mongol's sack of Baghdad, et cetera), what the Japanese did boils my blood.
>>1388024
What happens when your Dynasty was founded by a victorious General launching a military coup.
Honestly?
The Safavids
Sah Ismail I (God) and Abbas the Great were based as fuck
>>1388647
>god
buttlasted iranians still did not recover from the assrape that was Selim
>>1388714
What do you mean? Selim defeating Ismail can be seen in the palace of Chehel Sotun, with representations of the prominent events of different Safavids kings (plus Nadir Shah). How many nations are there humble enough to portray themselves being defeated in battle on their own Hall of Fame, even if the defeat is shown as valiant? I'm sure the turks are not amongst them.
>>1388647
Sad indeed specially because they would not let it just die. The joke could've ended when the afghans dethroned Soltan Hosein yet you still have several puppets and claimants used by the actual contenders fighting for power.
>>1385700
Obligatory
>>1386561
It continued to be good during Southern Song. In fact, the Song made a lot of profit out of trading with Jin that more than offset the cost of paying tribute to Xi Xia and Jin. They were doing better than ever in the South despite losing Kaifeng. Their government was probably more stable than any other Chinese dynasty prior, there was still a lot of economic and technological development and they were even experimenting with maritime trade.
I feel like the Mongols fucked everything up for China a lot more than the Jurchens. The Jurchens even made some positive contributions in founding public schools, in drama and elsewhere, and Emperor Shizong was pretty competent.
>>1386526
They were the last good Chinese Dynasty. The technological and cultural output of the Song Dynasty was unmatched by any prior or later dynasty. The dynasties after it ranged from mediocre to degenerate.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_technology_of_the_Song_dynasty
The is an family after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. Literally were kicked out and into poverty. The guy currently in line to the ottoman throne works at the New York public library
>>1389074
Weren't their exiled followed after decades of misrule though?
>>1386550
>what Europe was robbed of because they fell
The reign of white terror which came to their doorstep anyways? Yeah, they sure got robbed.
>>1389134
>decades
Closer to a few centuries. I can't think of anything the Ottomans did that was worth a damn after the 17th century.
>>1385700
>>1389190
>>1389195
>The family of Citizen Romanov went into the room and arranged itself across the wall then we entered. Nicholas stood in front of Alexei. As I looked over my comrades' shoulders, I saw Alexei, sickly looking and waxy, watching with wide, curious eyes as he followed our movements. I suddenly thought how very short his sad life had been, and I silently prayed we would all be good shots.
>The shooting was complete chaos. Vyrubova [sic] tried to protect herself with the pillows. After the first shots, I saw Alexei frozen in his chair, and his ashen face was covered with his father's blood as he sat there, unmoving in terror. One of the younger daughters died when she was shot in the back. Comrade Ermakov finished off a daughter by stabbing her in the chest over and over, and I remember Comrade Yurovsky shooting Tatiana in front of me; her head seemed to explode in a shower of blood and brains. The scene was sickening: the room was chaos, with blood and body fluids and brains all over the floor, and several comrades got sick at the sight.
>>1386468
You can marry a qt Korean and treat her like a princess though. :3
>>1389025
Qing may have been a shitty oppressive place to live for peasants, but can a dynasty that doubled the size of the Empire really called mediocre?
>>1388082
This. The French Revolution was a mistake. Now we drown in a sea of Republican propaganda. The enormity of this mistake is being revealed through globalization, which democracy + capitalism inherently promote. Once there were Frenchmen, Chinamen, Spaniards, Brits, Americans, Germans, etc.
All of these people were displaced with "men". What are "men"? Completely meaningless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h5M78YVN8M
>>1389664
I'm not memeing here, but I genuinely believe that things like neo-reactionaries, fat acceptance people, unironic communists, anarchists and fascists, will all cease to exist once screening for autism and selective abortions become more common.
It can't come soon enough.
>>1389672
>screening for autism
You can't screen for something that is developed through a dysfunctional childhood, you fucking idiot.
>>1385700
Romanovs, Bourbons in France
Habsburgs in Austria personally bum me out the most, though. Based Otto never got to be emperor as he deserved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMMhfR5i9wA
>>1389676
>>1389695
>>1389700
>>1385700
Non of them are sad. All royalty deserves to die. Sic semper tyrannis.
>>1389626
They weren't mediocre; they were degenerate. The Ming Dynasty was mediocre.
The Qing undid Ming laws allowing scholars freedom of speech, got rid of arquebuses/muskets, halted all technological progress, strait up destroyed a railroad that the British gifted them, and forced people to get a dumb haircut. Their only redeeming successes were Ten Great Campaigns.
U S A
>>1385937
fuck off cunt
romanov true ruler
soviet kgb scums are the usurper fucks
>>1389343
(((Ermakov)))
(((Yurovsky)))
>>1389722
>got rid of arquebuses/muskets
No?
The reason why the Banner System's initial aim to create racial segregation collapsed was because the military system that was integrated with it neccessitated the Chinese Gunners.
Not to mention Musketry and Cannons were the final solution of the Qing towards the Eternal Mongol during the great campaigns of the 1700s.
>>1388024
The Song dynasty was the dynasty right after the T'ang and the 5 Dynasties and 10 Kingdoms. Which had major shit happenings occuring thanks to successful popular generals
Though to be fair, its the fault of the T'ang dynasty for creating the rank of Jiedushi.
>GUYS LETS GIVE GENERALS IN THE FAR PROVINCES THE RIGHT TO RAISE PERSONAL ARMIES, COLLECT TAXES, AND MAKE LAWS.
Though to be fair to the T'ang, that did work vs. the Nomadshits.
To be unfair to the T'ang: that's how An Lushan acquired power.
>>1390515
>To be unfair to the T'ang: that's how An Lushan acquired power.
Han Jiedushi were okay. It's when they started handing out power to the Turkic fucking shits things went off the rails.
Trust a Turk, die by mercs.
>>1385700
Hohenzollerns.
Centuries of good to great leadership going back to near the end of the Thirty Years' War, all of it undone in 20 years to be replaced first by Nazis then by fucking Merkel.
>>1389722
>The Ming Dynasty was mediocre.
Really? Based on my cursory knowledge, I always thought the Han, Tang and Ming were the golden ages of imperial China.
>>1389343
God damnit the Mensheviks should have won
>>1385915
Is there a saltier group of people on earth than the Koreans? Holy shit they hate absolutely everybody
>Jap piggu go die! Korea is free!
>Yankee piggu get raped with bayonets! Fuck off!
>Chink piggu suck my dick! Korean culture not influenced by China at all! Die die die die!
>black piggu get out of my grocery store! I call police!
>>1392386
It's the cry of a people with a plastic culture trying to portray themselves as something other than the second coming of Bubble Era Japan.
>>1392386
not to mention their claims of every kingdom in manchuria being korean and the
>hwan empire
meme they have of Korea ruling the world. They are a really butthurt people after centuries of being the bitch of japan and china.
>>1390515
after the experience of the 5 dynasties and 10 kingdoms, the song decision to privilege the civil bureaucrats and severely cripple officers' authority and military autonomy only makes sense. In fact, it might have been the best thing they did. I'd even argue that they made the right decision with Yue Fei. As I stated before, they weren't severely crippled from paying tribute to the Tanguts, Jurchen and others. In fact, they made more than enough money off of trade with these peoples than the cost of tribute.
if they hadn't been conquered by the mongols or some other group, I think the southern song could have endured longer than any other chinese dynasty. It had a lot of good things going for it. It's not considered the height of Chinese civilization by Chinese because they were severely depressed by the loss of the North. If you can push that bit of nationalism aside though, they really did quite well.
>>1392386
You forgot that they hate Russians and North Koreans too
>>1389343
it gets worse
>But Anastasia was still alive, and Marie, too, for as their bodies were carried to a Fiat truck that stood waiting int he courtyard, first one, then the other, suddenly sat up, coughing blood, moaning, screaming. They were outside now, and the men couldn't shoot them; the bayonets came out, slashing through the air, but the knives struck the hidden jewels. And so someone grabbed a rifle, turned it around, and hammered away at the barely conscious faces, driving a the wooden stock down again and again and again. Battered into silence, choking on splintered bone and shattered teeth, drowning in her own blood--this is how Anastasia died.
>>1389664
>trusting the will of the nobility in the industrial age
You have forgotten history
>>1392479
You'd think WW1 (shit how about the 30 years war) would have put to bed this stupid 'aristocracy/traditionalism is actually always good!' meme
The problem is that we're still conditioned to view WW2 as the only seismic, apocalyptic, genocidal war in history, when in reality there have been several others. WW2 just happens to be the biggest and most recent
>>1392434
>>1389343
>>1389195
jesus
>>1392519
Nah, the problem is people haven't learned that any tyranny cannot be allowed to rule in the age of industry and nuclear technology. Having a king with nukes is like having a suicidal person with a gas oven or a gun in the house, it's not a good idea.
>>1392556
Infinitely worse happened to plenty of other people during that era, plenty of them suffering at the hands of the tsars loyalists
It's still a horrible thing to have happened, but the way conservatives wail and rend their clothes about it is extraordinarily disingenuous
>>1392396
Honestly my favorite Korea Stronk meme is that it should be spelt Corea (an old English translation of the Italian translation of the Chinese word for Goryeo) and that the Korea spelling is a Japanese conspiracy to place themselves above Korea on lists of countries.
>>1392556
They deserved everything, anon.
>>1394291
Fuck off commie
The tsar and his family did literally nothing wrong
>>1389190
>commies wanna kill this
>>1389343
>>1392434
>>1392556
>>1392830
Creamed my pants tbqh famila.
>>1392830
>plenty of them suffering at the hands of the tsars loyalists
Commies murdered x10 times the tzar did.
>>1388829
>>1394579
t. Polska jew
tzarists and counter-revolutionaries deserved everything they got for their recklessness and abuse of our people
>>1385850
It was going to fall anyway. The triple alliance was weakening and the fact that Cortés could show up and completely sit out for certain battles (e.g. Cholula) is indicative that Tlaxcala was going to establish regional hegemony anyway, probably with Zapotec help. Cortes definitely helped and was how the Tlaxcalans were able to *occupy* Tenochtitlan, but they could pretty much spank the Mexica in pitched battle.
My pet theory is that they would have waited until the next Xochitaoyotl (probably would have been near what we now call Noche Triste) and then strike while the Mexica forces were either elsewhere or weakened.
>>1386806
Historical accounts say he was a bottom
>>1385803
t. Roman citizen
>>1394614
"Your" people.
>>1394579
B-b-b-b-but that's okay! It's okay for the communists to starve millions people to death and execute people for being intelligent! That doesn't count!
>>1392386
>black piggu get out of my grocery store!
Kek
>>1385700
>Praising Manchu scum
I'm not even Chinese, I'm Japanese. Japan stopped paying trbiute to China when it was taken over by those northern barbarians.
Han or gtfo
>>1386719
Epic meme, you menshevik fucking shit
Rasputin did literally nothing wrong
>>1387564
Yes, because we should be mourning the CSA and all those poor, poor plantation owners
>>1386526
>Good government(days off for government employees, highest government salary in imperial china)
>All government ministers have to imperial exams to serve. Song society doesn't respect anyone didn't pass imperial exams that ensure highly meritocratic government. Poor talented kids could join the elite of Song society through exams.
>High point of literature
>Encourage trades
>Tight civilian control of military(i.e. no warlords)
>>1388024
Song logic actually made a lot of political sense.
Powerful out of control general wants to invite captive emperors back from Jurchen captivity. What do you Song Gaozong to do? Invite two rivals to the throne back to China or kill the general.
If I were in the same situation, I would kill Yue Fei as well.
>>1388829
lol
>>1392425
Gaozong was still a retard for ceding everything north of the Huai. Even after executing Yue Fei he could have pushed for at least setting the border at the Huang.
>>1389899
Bobby's grandson is a congressman, they'll be back.
>>1389899
It's like Bobby's wearing a rug on his chest.
>>1392386
Koreans are completely open about Chinese influence though.
The Japanese are the supposed special snowflake islands, remember?
>>1385700
For me the Napoleonic dynasty, definitely
You know the one which actually got ELECTED into power, took the vacant throne and tried to make France a Great Empire again! The two Napoleons, succeeding Charlemagne as last French Emperor
Took a bet of price, the "Natural Borders" was the plan, but lost it. The Rhenanie people will never remember their sacrifice. And liberation of the Polish people
People loathe Napoleon III, but he just had too strong of an opponent, there were worse monarchs in history of France in all honestly. Say compared to later leaders.
In the old style of warlords, who crowned themselves, with personal bodyguard proved worthy and they became the knights, druzhina of them. If we will even see return of monarchy, it will be this way, the crowned republics are the c-word.
>>1398729
Other of my favoured is perhaps the personal vendetta of the Ungern Khan, desperate, madness.
Despite crowning that guy, Bogd Khan?, he was the de-facto leader, Tamerlane style ruling puppets. Tamerlane wanted to restore the Mongol Empire, but died too early before restoring Northern Yuans to the throne.
No one postulates return of Dzungharia into Mongolia anymore, aside his idea of annexation of Sinkiang aka "Eastern Turkestan" (southern part of which is Uyghurstan proper) which Ungern had, possibly due to origins of the native Mongol script itself?
>>1392386
WE
>>1398786
baekje was based
they spread buddhism and didn't afraid of anything
>>1398729
>toppled after 7 Jew funded enemy coalitions
>for bringing in liberty and justice for commoners and refusing Jewish banks
is this the worst thing to happen to Europe pre-ww2?
>>1398729
>charlemagne
>french
>>1385700
The only man who could have united Europe and beat the yellow horde.
>>1399312
Napoleon had a huge boner for anything China y'know
While on campaign he would stay up all night reading Sun Zi's Art of War
He's more likely to 'beat off' the yellow horde if anything
Anastiyaaaa~
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--efmat8lF4
The Romanovs and Solomonic Dynasty, why do commieshits have to ruin everything beautiful?
>>1399342
This was largely because the Kingdom of France was Qing China's only European buddy at the time.
Hence the first "Weeaboo" Phenomena happened in France: Chinoiserie.
>>1400408
>"josephine-kun i wuvva you xD"
>"Putain Napoléon , va te faire foutre !"
>>1385710
I hear you scotbro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTRqUvjwkac
