![george-patton[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/bGyD2f4.jpg "george-patton[1].jpg")
Who was the best commander in WW2?
Unironically, Hitler
Manstein & Guderian
>>1384501
General Winter
Hirohito
Eisenhower
>>1384614
Hirhito was a meme
>>1384574
I'd probably go with Manstein as well, although take his successes with a grain of salt because a lot of information comes from his memoirs.
I would put Kesselring ahead of Guderian myself. Guderian had his moments of brilliance, but he could also be extremely erratic.
>>1384620
this guy gets it
>>1384559
You forgot this
>
>>1384501
Definitely not Patton. To my knowledge he is remembered for his tough guy persona and populist speeches, but he was an adequate general at best who always had huge casualties.
>>1384867
Tell me where did he have those huge casualties and how did they compare to your average general?
Tadamichi Kuribayashi. Serving a country that was overzealous and rigid in everything, he proved flexible and adaptable to changes. Mostly because of his time living in the United States, he was able to understand that support for the war came from the American congress, and support for the American congress came from the American people. So he set off to fight a very grueling war on a very desolate island, and that included compromising some of long-standing Japanese doctrine. He did not permit Banzai charges and refused to build fortifications on the shoreline (which was a standard).
He turned from a General that was sent there to die (mostly for his Americanism) to become more than a cannon fodder.
>>1384501
Rokossovsky
>>1384867
The only time he suffered huge casualties was assaulting the Siegfried Line, which would have led to massive casualties and did lead to massive casualties regardless of the commander in charge of the men attacking them.
Engaging fortifications tough enough to survive direct hits from 155mm artillery shells is going to be an ordeal. That said, I don't think Patton was the best. He was good at what he was good at, which was aggressive attacks. He liberated the fuck outta France in record time, even faster than the fuel trucks could keep up. The Germans could never set up any serious defenses or strongholds because he pushed his men to their limit, knowing the Germans had already been pushed past theirs.
He was also one of the few commanders to realize that Germany was not beaten by Christmas and had taken measures to ensure a massive counterattack would be available in case of the Germans attacking, as they did in the Battle of the Bulge, although I do wonder if his efforts were even necessary. Although the other Allied commanders were slow to react the Germans beat themselves to exhaustion against the existing and rather sparse defenders, the counterattacks were much more mopping up German resistance than a push against a spearhead.
Of course, his early counterattack did help to speed up Germany's defeat during the battle, as well as quicken the relief of a great many units, including the 101st. Of course they could have held out near indefinitely as long as they remained resupplied by air as the Germans had simply ignored the city with the bulk of their forces and only left one Volksgrenadier Division and one regiment from a Panzer Corps to assault the city, which of course went absolutely terribly for the Germans because the bulk of their forces were an AA battalion re purposed for infantry work and the one breakthrough they achieved with armor had half of their armor destroyed when they split up and drove into four tank destroyer and an AT brigade
>>1384726
>although take his successes with a grain of salt because a lot of information comes from his memoirs.
And don't forget that his memoirs tend to blame everything that went wrong on Hitler, and when he can't blame Hitler (like with the failed first assault on Sevastopol) he conveniently forgets it.
>>1385357
There's no denying that there was a serious lack of accountability in the German high command but most of them were afraid of losing their jobs if they spoke out. Hitler did ultimately cost them the war due to lack of preparation and his profound hatred of the Russian people.
>>1385039
I think that was the only time I could remember that Japan inflicted more casualties on the US than they lost.
>>1385375
nein. Hitler was absurdly prepared. The problem was he would micromanage every fucking thing. He would quiz his generals on battlefield minutiae, under the sweet sounding logic that they should know of all developments on the front line. Which sounds good in theory, but in reality it meant they spent all their time studying expiring positions just for the purpose of being quizzed by Hitler. Hitler would also issue specific orders to front line units, despite the obvious difficulty in communication and time lapses.
I mean this is why the Germans invented the fucking staff system. Hitler was a brilliant buffoon.
>>1384501
>Who was the best commander in WW2?
Patton.
"The rapid pursuit o the German frontier created problems for the Allies. On 11 September 1944, the first day that U.S. Army troops entered Germany near Aachen, the Allies were along a phase line that the Operation Overlord plans did not expect to reach until D+330, 2 May 1945, some 233 days ahead of schedule."
-- Armored Champion - Zaloga --
Patton is a meme general who managed to get idolized due to his early death, he was a capable but not a great general and was despised both by his superiors and inferiors.
Those who have their fav general as Patton probably don't know much about WWII, similar to Justinian the meme emperor.
>>1384501
Zhukov
>>1385258
This. The man was absurdly good
>>1385411
>nein. Hitler was absurdly prepared. The problem was he would micromanage every fucking thing. He would quiz his generals on battlefield minutiae, under the sweet sounding logic that they should know of all developments on the front line. Which sounds good in theory, but in reality it meant they spent all their time studying expiring positions just for the purpose of being quizzed by Hitler. Hitler would also issue specific orders to front line units, despite the obvious difficulty in communication and time lapses.
>Underestimated the capabilities of the Red Army
>underestimated the Russian winter
>Overestimated the abilites of his personnel
>Ignored the advice from members of his own high command
Hitler had a plan, a brilliant plan but his undoing was the fact that he wasn't prepared to accept that he'd have to change his strategy. He was a great planner but a terrible field commander.
>>1385395
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cottage
Gustavus Adolphus is the obvious answer, but Spinola and Wallenstein too
>>1385540
>Hitler had a plan, a brilliant plan
If you are talking about barbarossa, then it was hardly brilliant as it literally never had even the tiniest chance of succeeding militarily
>>1385561
For ww2 commanders?
>>1385593
Are you trying to imply the swedish empire wasnt the greatest military power of WW2?
>>1385593
Did I fucking stutter
>>1385597
No, I'm directly stating it.
Sweden's military was actually pretty decent in WW2, but they were in no way a major power.
>>1385587
It was, the biggest problem being that they grossly underestimated Russian man power.
>>1385602
No, you just said something obviously retarded and nonsensical, and I thought you not reading the OP was a higher probability than you being fucktarded.
But I now see my error.
>>1385608
>grossly underestimated Russian man power.
Seems like a massively glaring flaw in your brilliant plan
>>1384867
Patton was at least equal to Zhukov.
Patton was the tactical minded General you needed when you wanted in an armored division. Someone that knows how to a retreating force's life miserable.
>>1385480
If Patton had not been held back by politics. He could have beat the Russian to Berlin and Czechslovakia.
Zhukov
>>1385608
They didn't underestimate shit. The summer of 1941 was their best option to invade the USSR, had they waited another year it would've been even less likely. They did that they did because it was their best option to defeat what they saw as the enemy.
Hitler was not smart. His demand for his generals to fight to the bitter end when better options were available was childish, moving units to Stalingrad away from more important fronts was idiotic, and refusing to relocate Panzer divisions to stop the Normandy invasion was moronic. He was a stiff neck, pig headed, dummy.
>>1385697
If you don't know shit about the military situation during 1945, don't talk. You don't know shit.
>>1384559
Got his ass kicked
AH was a terrible military commander.
The answer is Zhukov.
>>1385781
>>1385718
Zhukov definitely
btw this is unrelated but....
>Grow up in small village in mexico
>best friend is white mexican named Zhukov
>only realize a decade later that he was named after the guy that won the Eastern Front
Think small town in the middle of the mountains in central mexico. When i was growing up the streets were cobblestone and only the rich had telephones.
Model. Constantly fought and defeated forces far outmatching his in every battle on just about every front.
>Saved entire eastern front several times during the war while it was collapsing
>Pulled a victory out of his ass in the clusterfuck known as Market Garden
Criminally underrated general. Unlike other German commanders he wasn't autistic so he kept his mouth shut about shit he couldn't do anything about. This let him have basically free reign at a time when Hitler wanted to micromanage everything his generals did.
This guy is literally the reason Germany held out until 1945 instead of 44.
>>1385780
>ERADICATE THE SPIES AND DIVERSANTS, TROSKYIST-BUKAHRINIST AGENTS OF FASCISM
>applying nazism/fascism to all and any enemy of the state regardless of his actual associations
Wew, russians really never change.
Bukharin yesterday, Ukrainians today, Americans tomorrow.
>>1385503
This
He was so irrelevant that the Germans didn't even know who he was until the final days of the war. Omar Bradley outclassed him in every capacity.
You called?
>>1385898
The Germans knew who he was, but only the ones actually in charge of the Western Front and only some of them.
It's a tad silly to think Germans from the Eastern Front would know who he was, he was only a 2 star general after all. Although the reason he wasn't a 3 star is because he refused to tow the party line and was a total dick. That hit soldiers.
>>1384960
He had fairly high casualties in Italy and also at Hurtgen Forest, but these were pretty expected when they happened. What's fucked up is that the Hurtgen would have been completely avoidable if the British hadn't fucked up Market Garden so badly.
>>1384501
Hermann Balck on division level, by a wide margin.
>>1385788
cool story to be honest
>>1385694
>Patton was at least equal to Zhukov.
Zhukov is the worst general of all time.
This lad
>>1387962
give me facts and an argument. I do not disagree but just saying that is stupid.
>>1387817
Seriously underrated and one of the best armor, and divisional commanders of all time. Stone Fucking cold. However, I don't remember anything about him post promotion.
>>1387978
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a160703.pdf
Douglas MacArthur
>>1388505
utter shit, unless you need a desk jockey to administrate a country.
he almost redeemed him self in korea, but china's zerg rush caught him totally unprepared. then he gets fired for wanting to nuke everyone.
>>1385503
This maaan this. Justinian only had luck and a very good general. He was at best a bad emperor.
>>1387817
>http://www.historynet.com/the-greatest-german-general-no-one-ever-heard-of.htm/5
wiped out an entire soviet tank army, with a single division.
>>1385561
WW2 Not 1632...
Stop reading Eric Flint and get your head in the game
>>1385507
/thread
>>1387968
>>1385535
>>1385258
Patrician's choice, though Zhukov was obviously excellent as well. I also like Vatutin for his creativity and daring, even if he had the occasional disastrous fuckup (eg Kharkov 1943)
>>1385818
Model stands out for a lot of reasons when compared to the other Wehrmacht generals: a master of defense and stabilising crises (the "fireman" of the German army), a fiercely ideological Nazi, a non-aristocrat... The only stain on his record I can think of is at Kursk, but admittedly that was more a case of being given the hardest side of Citadelle while not being an offensive specialist himself, and against the great Rokossovsky to boot
/his/ has a Soviet bias because they're a bunch of /leftypol/ cucks. The real patrician choice is Omar Bradley.
not this gentleman here
Admiral Nimitz
Bill Slim was a good one.
>>1389346
Or maybe because the Eastern Front was unarguably the largest front of the European theater, which means there are lots of battles and that means lots of commanders.
Also Omar was pretty good.
>>1389496
Too bad he was a kid-fiddler.
>>1385729
What situation? The one where the US had nukes before anyone else? Or that the US were relatively untouched from the war casualty wise? Or maybe how the US had the world's largest navy and logistics train? Which one Vlad?
>>1389512
>Faced and beat more Japanese troops than any other commander in the war
>fucked prime boypussy
He lived the dream
>>1389509
Even so, the Eastern Front didn't have good commanders. They were pretty shitty planners who were good at throwing bodies. Even the Stalin was impressed by the plans Bradley was capable of and were afraid of how good Patton was at executing said plans to the point he admitted that the Soviets would never have been capable of retaking France as quickly as the U.S. did. Being a good commander is more than just winning battles. It's doing it well.
>>1389513
Nah.
>>1389545
I forget, who led the operation that led to the largest Wehrmacht surrender on the western front?
>>1389655
Who caused the Colmar Pocket in the first place? Giving Devers credit for closing the Colmar Pocket is like giving the janitor credit for brain surgery because he cleaned up after the surgeon.
>>1387817
>here, take some time off, take this large sum of cash to take your wife somewhere pleasant
>nah, i'd rather spend the cash with my men
>hey Hermann, you're pretty fucking amazing and not a hitler dicksucker like that fuckface rommel, wanna join the krigsacademie? We'll even write your recommendation letters!
>no thanks, i wanna lead from the front, together with my men
Based.
>>1389662
>Colmar pocket
>Largest surrender on Western Front.
Are you stupid, or just extremely ignorant? Because no, I wasn't talking about Colmar, I was talking about Anvil/Dragoon, a party that Bradley was definitely not invited to.
>>1385253
Literally based Schneller Heinz
>Patton
A mediocre general who was butthurt that the German kids he fought did not surrender quickly enough for him to reach Berlin first, so he decided to keep a diary where he bitched about jews and how subhuman russians are. Bradley was far superior.
>>1389545
>Even so, the Eastern Front didn't have good commanders. They were pretty shitty planners who were good at throwing bodies. Even the Stalin was impressed by the plans Bradley was capable of and were afraid of how good Patton was at executing said plans to the point he admitted that the Soviets would never have been capable of retaking France as quickly as the U.S. did. Being a good commander is more than just winning battles. It's doing it well.
Are you fucking kidding me? You realize the sheer amount of men on the Eastern Front dwarfed anything on the Western Front?
I'm so sick of Americans and Anglos belittling the achievements of the Red Army in an attempt to make themselves feel good. The truth is that BOTH the Western Allies and Soviets relied on throwing men and materiel at the enemy with the difference that the Red Army had extremely capable officers who understood and applied principles of deep operations and out-blitzkrieged the Wehrmacht.
What would casualties among a 1943 D-Day have been like if the Wehrmacht hadn't been bled dry after horrendous losses in the East? You fuckers are so ungrateful.
