ITT: We discuss the denial of holodomor.
Worse than the holocaust?
Probably.
>>1374280
>>1374287
>>1374291
>>1374296
>>1374280
During the Holodomor millions of citizens of the Ukrainian SSR, the majority of whom were ethnic Ukrainians, died of starvation in a peacetime catastrophe unprecedented in the history of Ukraine.[9] Since 2006, the Holodomor has been recognized by the independent Ukraine[10] and 14 other countries as a genocide of the Ukrainian people carried out by the Soviet Union.[11]
Early estimates of the death toll by scholars and government officials varied greatly; anywhere from 1.8[12] to 12 million[13] ethnic Ukrainians were said to have perished as a result of the famine. Recent research has since narrowed the estimates to between 2.4[14] and 7.5[15] million. The exact number of deaths is hard to determine, due to a lack of records,[16][17] but the number increases significantly when the deaths inside heavily Ukrainian-populated Kuban are included.[18]
>>1374311
>Ukraine
There is no real denial.
There is denial it was planned genocide, and that it was directed against Ukrainians.
And they are correct. It was a failure of agricultural policies, criminal failure sure, but not a genocide.
In fact, not only Ukrainians died, your own map shows that.
Holodomor narrative was invented for purely nationalist reasons by Ukrainians.
The fact they literally blame Russians for decisions of a communist Georgian dictator just shows what a joke they are collectively.
>>1374428
This tbqh desu
>>1374280
Holodomor is a meme that ukarinian nationalists love to use every time someone reminds them that they're killing people of their own ilk in Donbass.
>us? killing ukrainians in Donbass? nonsense! all native ukrainians in Donbass died out as part of the Holodomor, current Donbass "ukrainians" are descendants of russian settlers as part of commie attempts at russifying Ukraine hence they're not real ukrainians! killing Donbassians is the right thing to do in this age of de-communisation and de-russification! gib dollars pls
>>1374298
Fuck off with this shit right now
The Holodomor happened, but so did the Holocaust. The latter is even more well-documented
>>1374411
>dont believe that genocide happened, but do believe this genocide happen
Good one /his/
The amount of salt in this thread is hilarious.
>>1374647
I honestly have no idea which side you think is butthurt
>>1375138
There's nothing tankie about shitting on Ukrainian nationalist fantasies.
Yes mass starvation happened, no, it wasn't a genocide directed against Ukrainians.
Well, the famine did happen, but it was probably not directed at the Ukrainians, the Holocaust was obviously not 6000000 jews, but it was directed at them.
I'd say around 15 million died in the "Holodomor", which is not a genocide.
Around 100.000-500.000 Jews in the Holocaust.
>>1375171
Damn dude you're pretty dumb
>>1375162
Hello Mega Ultra Deluxe Tankie
>>1375171
>And not a single thing said was cited
You're a moron case closed I think
Yes certainly
Pretty much:
>First five year plan (and desu early second five year plan) has high expectations for increased grain output
When quotas can't be met because expectations are too high. Soviets blamed it on the kulaks, whether it was the Soviets paranoia and belief that there were wealthy peasants hoarding grain to sell at an inflated price or a cop out because they either didn't want Stalin to think they failed at a time when he was sending a lot of people to Siberia or Stalin with a heart made of coal wanted nothing more than to kill Ukrainians.
>Yellow journalism rampant in the West, American Red Baiting plus Hearst
A good story that both shows Depression-era Americans that while you may be in bread lines living in a tin shack at least you're not Ukrainian. Keeps them spooked to gommunism and sells a lot of papers.
It was a time of paranoia and confusion, Stalin was purging and no one wanted to look like they were doing wrong, so Ukrainian peasants got the short end of the stick, though it wasn't as bad as the media made it out to be
