26th of June, 2016
On immigration
>Such an important aspect of modern life like mass migration is not left unattended. Unlike the Catholic approach that unduly favors migrants, particularly in Europe, the Orthodox notices the negative nature of the process, as well as the fact that it leads to confrontation of different identities and value systems. In addition, the Orthodox Church propose to look at the roots of this phenomenon. The reason for the migration is the liberal, hedonistic ideology bleeding the peoples of Europe and the interests of the capitalist elite, who need a cheap and disenfranchised workforce:
>Attempts by indigenous people of the rich countries to stop the migration flow are futile, because come in conflict with greed of their own elites who are interested in the low-wage workforce.
On usury
> The only alternative to the global fictitious liberal economy can only be a real Christian economy.
>Business expectations in lending, often ghostly becomes more profitable than the production of tangible goods. In this regard, it must be remembered about the moral ambiguity of the situation, when money is "make" new money without the application of human labor. Declaring credit sphere to be the main engine of the economy, its predominance over the real economic sector comes into conflict with the moral principles, reveled by God condemning usury.
Let's throw off the globalist shackles, lads!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNKAb75Cj_k
>>1373226
When they say 'liberals' do they mean United states liberals, or libertarians/classical liberals?
Oh boy, that's unexpected. An Orthodox church arguing against the enlightenment.
>>1373239
They mean "not Orthodox."
>>1373239
>When they say 'liberals' do they mean United states liberals, or libertarians/classical liberals?
They mean both, since both are in favor of usury and globalism.
Of course the Orthodox would oppose immigration. After all, they are in essence nothing but a glorified ethnic club for Greeks and Slavs.
>>1373251
>I've never been to an Antiochian parish
>>1373226
When are you disgusting subhumans going to pay your debts?
>>1373255
>I'm an autistic LARPer
I love the ERE as much as anyone else, but you fucks are seriously cringe-worthy.
>>1373251
>he hasn't converted to Orthodoxy
>>1373261
Huh??
All the LARP'ers are Catholics. "Deus Vult" is a crusader call, we never had crusades, we just got sacked by them.
>>1373226
funny how they've meshed Marxist theory into their religion. Guess that Soviet education still has a hold on the older generation.
>>1373261
His point is that the Church of Antioch is filled with Arabs you mong
>>1373267
>All the LARP'ers are Catholics
And Orthodox.
>muh Constantinopolis!
>muh Russian Empire! muh Whites!
>>1373275
disregarding tradition leads to degeneracy such as anime
>>1373267
Catholics are the ones playing D&D with foam bats, Orthodox are the ones whining because someone's costume has a fastening that wasn't invented until four years after the war they're re-enacting. At the end of the day, it's all LARP.
>>1373272
The Church of Antioch is extremely small, even for Orthodox denominations. The overwhelming majority of the Orthodox denominations are comprised of Greeks and Slavs and their progeny: in essence, it has become a ethnic religion, embraced less out of actual devotion and more as a cultural marker.
>>1373281
Nobodies stopping the Dutch from wearing wooden shoes. Or whatever.
>>1373275
I don't think any sane person favors what the Bolsheviks did
>>1373281
I forgot that aside from being autistic LARPers, Orthodox are also known for being cringeworthy reactionaries.
>>1373226
on immigration
>no mercy for poor people fleeing war.
on usury
>liberal economics is bad, just ignore that countries with liberal economies tend to have higher standards of living.
Greece and Russia are doing just fine, why do you ask?
>>1373289
how difficult is it to convert?
>>1373287
It's actually pretty large in America, relative to the other Orthodox
You must remember: we didn't have colonialism. Considering that we're doing boss. Not as well as Protestants, no, but our conversion is harder and when we *do* get converts, we retain them for life in virtually all cases.
>>1373303
Your "converts" are literal history buffs (i.e. the very definition of LARPers). Aside from them, your only new members are the offspring of third generation immigrants.
>>1373289
They're using Marxist terminology and logic. They're claiming that any value not derived from human labor is fictitious, which is how Marx described it (fictitious capital).
>>1373301
It's not hard if you're willing to read a lot of books and consistently attend liturgy. It will most likely require a lot of effort on your part though, and can take a year, but there is not set method to converting. Generally the easiest parishes to convert through as missions, as their priests are there mainly to minister to converts. But Antiochian parishes in the West are also mostly converts, and that includes their clergy, but they tend to also be stricter and the most traditionalist.
>>1373301
Very, because as one user said, these churches tend to be 'ethnic clubs'. They are very insular.
Imagine a white person trying to become a member of a black church. Sure, they can attend services, but they won't "belong", which puts many people off.
>>1373316
You're absolutely a liar, I'm a convert and they're extremely welcoming.
>>1373318
do i need any familiarity wth russian or greek?
>>1373318
You're absolutely a liar. You're a shill, fuck off.
>>1373318
What country? How did you go about it?
>>1373320
Nope. They might do part of the liturgy in another language though, but the priest can give you a bilingual book translating it. And if you go to an Antiochian parish, I guarantee you it will al be in English. But no matter what parish you go to, converting does NOT require you to learn another language.
>>1373314
misunderstanding economics nine hundred years ago can be forgiven. Not changing those views in light of overwhelming evidence can not.
Its like insisting on a young earth
>>1373328
America
I went about it by going to a service. The priest came up to me and talked to me and then introduced me to the parish. He told me to come to a study every week if I wanted to learn about the faith in depth. Then I told him a few weeks later I wanted to convert, and so he gave me some books to read and eventually announced me as a catechumen when he thought I was ready, and I got chrismated on Pascha.
>>1373226
>ORTHODOX CHURCH ON IMMIGRATION AND USURY
Who gives a shit, the Orthodox establishment is even more irrelevant than the Catholic Church
>>1373332
You don't understand, for the Church it is a question of morality. The view isn't going to change anymore than the Church's stance on abortion will change because "overwhelming evidence" suggests there's nothing wrong with it.
>>1373339
a better example would be refusing a blood transfusion because your church has a moral objection to it, and then issuing a public statement condemning blood transfusions and proposing " a Christian alternative" to live saving medicine
>>1373300
>poor people leaving war
>>1373349
There's no dogma against blood transfusions
If our moral doctrines changed with time, then how could we call ourselves the Church founded by Christ? We'd be the Church of the current year.
>>1373239
Classical E. G. Neo-Liberalism
>>1373314
Show me when and where the Church decided that the present value of expected future cash flows isn't real, and what logic they used to determine this.
And why would Aquinas' writings have an impact on the beliefs of the Orthodox church?
>>1373318
>admitting to the world that you're retarded
>>1373357
Aquinas is just the guy who elaborated on it the most, the injunction and the reason had been there since the beginning.
Cash is not a product, it is just a medium of exchange.
>>1373336
sounds interesting tbqh thanks
>tfw might find God through 4chan
>>1373303
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodox_missions
>>1373353
>There's no dogma against blood transfusions
It was a theoretical example.
>If our moral doctrines changed with time, then how could we call ourselves the Church founded by Christ? We'd be the Church of the current year.
Well then you have a clear quandary, do you follow moral doctrines clearly contrary to reason because they supposedly stem from Christ?
A Catholic would say that if reason proves a doctrine wrong they must have misunderstood something, though there loath to ever admit a doctrine might be wrong
>>1373360
Pure cringe.
>>1373360
Orthodox scum will burn in hell hotter than the worst fedora
>>1373360
https://warosu.org/lit/thread/S6706189
>>1373365
We're Orthodox, not Catholics. Amending or even having a "new understanding" of doctrine is forbidden (and that itself is doctrine).
>Orthodox view on usury just happens to take a Marxist stance
The backpedaling is great.
>>1373339
econ pro tip: enabling a credit system benefits everyone by creating a wealthier society.
Medieval theologians had no clue what they were talking about when it came to economics. Their opinions on the matter should be totally irrelevant to yours because that field of study hadn't even been invented when they were writing.
>>1373380
The Church has always had this stance. In fact, the Catholic Church did too throughout the Middle Ages.
The stance predates even Christianity, Aristotle espouses it.
>>1373378
>We're heretics who will burn in hell, not Catholics
>>1373359
Money, including fiat, is a commodity in and of itself. This was obvious in ancient times when things like gold dust and salt were used in lieu of minted currency.
>>1373380
>orthodoxy
>amending doctrine
>>1373384
>The Church has always had this stance
Only in theory. In practice, the Church establishment - Orthodox or Catholic - has always been noted for its irreconcilable thirst for temporal power and accumulation of wealth, all while preaching voluntary poverty and moderation.
>>1373395
Okay Dawkins go shitpost on twitter
>>1373384
>The Church has always had this stance
What's the earliest evidence you have to support this statement, and what ethical argument did they make to justify this stance?
>>1373408
>"valid criticism of my church must be shitposting"
Typical Christcuck.
>>1373414
the old testament
>>1373395
Monks have pretty much always been the heart of our Church, and there was never an issue about decadence with them, that I assure you.
We do love gold and things like that for worship, but so? We worship him with all the gifts of the Magi. And the temple of the old testament was certainly ornate.
>>1373292
just a majority of the world's fourth most populous country
>>1373445
This, pretty much.
>>1373445
I don't think this has to do with condoning the actions of the Bolsheviks, this has to do with political unity. Even the Communist Party of Russia today now strongly supports the Church.
>>1373300
>poor people fleeing war
>Greece and Russia are doing just fine, why do you ask?
Based ignoramus.
You do realize that the reason Greece is as shit as it is is exactly because of the economic system this statement goes against, right?
And Russia is doing more than fine, what with them seizing Crimea and now the second largest member of their embargo leaving the EU
>>1373482
>Russia has the most college-level or higher graduates in terms of percentage of population in the world, at 54%.[311]
>>1373255
>>I've never been to an Antiochian parish
Thats not really that surprising given that there are less than 2 million of them world wide. Antiochian Parishes are rarer than Mormon and Jehovas witnesses for instance.
It seems rather odd you would use one of the smaller jurisdictions as an example
>>1373303
>It's actually pretty large in America, relative to the other Orthodox
They are less than 1% of all orthodox Christians in the US how on earth do you figure that to be pretty large?
http://www.hartfordinstitute.org/research/2010-USOrthodox-Census.pdf
>>1373422
>ark of the convenant was decorated
>therefore decking out priests and temples in gold and precious metals whilst people are literally starving to death is good.
>>1373490
They're smaller because their native population was conquered by Muslims and never won independence. But outside of it, in the West, they are building missions very quickly, several every year, and many are Western Rite. Their parishes have grown about 400% in the U.S. over the past few decades, mostly from evangelism.
>>1373498
8%, actually, if you factor by Church attendance instead of just identification.
>>1373512
Not just the Ark, but the entire temple was decked out
![1467426910603[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/MOZQQdv.jpg "1467426910603[1].jpg")
>>1373226
Spot on. Easily exposes the problems with mass immigration with actual arguments without resorting to racist stormfag rhetoric. /pol/ could stand to learn something from this.
Reading this has let me depressed though.
-I really like the Orthodox Church culturally and want to be part of it, but the idea of a god actually existing is silly to me and I couldn't believe in it even if I tried. Even as a kid, I stopped believing in Catholicism the moment I started being just the slightest bit introspective.
-Likewise, I would love to leave this shithole of a country and enjoy Russian culture, but it'd be hypocritical of me to do that when I don't support mass migration and don't consider myself better than other people who would be willing to do the same as me. What's more, I'm not even a low-skill worker, I'm an engineer, and I would hate it if I was accepted in order to get lower wage engineers over native Russian engineers because it's a policy I can't agree to even if it benefits me.
-Even if I moved there, I would never completely part of the culture, no matter how much I tried. I would just be a silly foreigner wannabe Russian.
-I will never get another chance at life, so I either live my whole life in this shitty country attempting (and failing, I've pondered this for quite some time but it just isn't feasible within a generation) to get it back on its feet, or swallow my pride and live where I want like a shallow hypocrite the rest of my life.
Might as well end it today. Sorry for the blog, /his/.
>>1373396
Aww, someone triggered :(
>>1373226
That's it, that's ll I needed to hear. If I'm gonna leave the Lutheran church, I'm converting to orthodoxy. Enjoy your refugees, papists!
>>1373419
So what made them decide to keep that prohibition? Why didn't they just toss it out like they did with so much of the other OT crap?
God bless the Orthodox Church!
Post hymns n shit!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dTnxFgmQLKc
>>1373569
>wanting to be a Russian
here https://www.rt.com/business/345022-russia-far-east-free-land/
Now shoo, go see for yourself how wonderful Russia is and maybe you'll learn to appreciate what you had where you are now.
>>1373691
I'm Latin American, and Russia has twice the GDP per capita of my country.
It's not about economics though. I don't mind living in a poor country as long as I don't have to fear for my life just for walking at night.
It's about the culture. I have similar feelings towards pretty much all countries in Eurasia, I'm just more infatuated towards Russian cultures because its elements resonate with me more than other cultures'. I would also love to live in Spain, Italy, Czechia, Austria, Hungary, Bulgaria, Greece, Turkey, (peaceful) Syria, Iran, Azerbaijan, etc. I wish I could look at my city and see thousands of years of history, and look at my people and see a shared heritage and a cultural identity.
The New World was a mistake.
I feel better after posting the last post though, I needed to vent a little. Once again, sorry for the faggotry.
Confirmed true catholic and apostolic church.
Gates of Hades BTFO.
Papists BTFO.
>>1373569
There is an Atheist FAQ here, please read it.
http://pastebin.com/bN1ujq2x
I will pray for your life, anon. Please come into our fold, our love. God wants you to come home.
>>1373295
You have no idea.
>>1373762
>I'm Latin American, and Russia has twice the GDP per capita of my country.
ah, that makes more sense
>I don't mind living in a poor country as long as I don't have to fear for my life just for walking at night.
Then don't go with Russia. I'd say try Peru if you want nice culture and history without going too far.
>>1373518
>They're smaller because their native population was conquered by Muslims and never won independence. But outside of it, in the West, they are building missions very quickly, several every year, and many are Western Rite. Their parishes have grown about 400% in the U.S. over the past few decades, mostly from evangelism.
Read my post, I wasnt arguing about their size I was simply stating that they are a rather poor representation of the church given that they are so very small in the US and the World at large.
Statistically they are literally an outlier.
Side note have you got any good reports or documents on that as in what they are doing? all ive seen is them having an internet radio station likewise there doesnt seem to be much info on the actual sizes of those parishes.
>8%, actually, if you factor by Church attendance instead of just identification.
So 92% of Orthodox being non antiochian makes is something you consider big? Thats hardly helping your case
>>1373985
Most Antiochians in the West are converts, so yeah, 8% of the Church being converts is something I consider big.
>>1373526
>Not just the Ark, but the entire temple was decked out
The temple Christ himself is going to build during his second coming.
Why not have 1000 wives and concubines while you are at it.
>>1373786
Why do priests bless weapons? Is that biblical?
>>1374001
>Most Antiochians in the West are converts, so yeah, 8% of the Church being converts is something I consider big.
I can see your issue here, Im not saying that having a church which doesn't suffer from ethnic problems (which is a serious issue for the church now and histrocially) isnt significant or important only that as this group is such a small percentage of the Orthodox faithful worldwide and in the US it is faulty and dishonest reasoning to hold them to be representative of Orthodoxy.
As a result its pretty unreasonable to expect people to be familiar with them or to view other orthodox churches as being simmilar.
>>1374001
Also do you have any information of the evangelism efforts/?
How different is Orthodox service from Angl*can?
>>1374053
It's not really a problem, the only reason it is so "ethnic" as you like to put is, that the Orthodox Church was never backed by colonialism.
>>1374058
>Some 70 percent of Antiochian Orthodox priests in the United States are converts, according to Bradley Nassif, who, as a theology professor at North Park University in Chicago, is a leading scholar of the religion. A generation or two ago, Professor Nassif said, converts made up barely 10 percent of Antiochian clergy.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/03/us/03religion.html?_r=0
>As a result of its evangelism and missionary work, the Antiochian Archdiocese saw significant growth between the mid-1960s and 2012. The archdiocese had only 65 parishes across the United States in the mid-1960s and by 2011 this number had increased to 249 parishes.[5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochian_Orthodox_Christian_Archdiocese_of_North_America
>>1374070
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeRXbLAIPcU
>It's not really a problem, the only reason it is so "ethnic" as you like to put is, that the Orthodox Church was never backed by colonialism.
It is a serious issues, so much so that they had to a have a council on it.
>never backed by colonialism.
Nonsense Orthodoxy had the Roman and Russian Empires meanwhile groups like the JWs and Baptists and even groups like the Buddhists and Mormons managed to spread beyond race and ethnicity despite not having imperial backing
Even in my country where Orthodox have been here for over 100 years nearly half of all parishoners are born overseas.
>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/03/us/03religion.html?_r=0
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiochian_Orthodox_Christian_Archdiocese_of_North_America
I know those sources see my question in >>1373985 I actually want to know what they are doing. Saying "evangelizing" doesnt answer that.
>>1374109
Just to clarify that last point. Merely saying there are more converts and a story about a man seeking out the church on his own dont really answer the question of what the Antiochians are doing when they evangelise
Also to clarify do you think it is statistically reasonable and honest to hold the Antiochians as being representative of Orthodoxy as a whole in their approach to evangilisation given they are between >1-8% of the of Orthodox population in the US and even smaller world wide?
>>1374109
>It is a serious issues, so much so that they had to a have a council on it.
That was because some parishes were being strictly ethnic over a hundred years ago, that doesn't happen anymore, no parish designates which ethnicity is to go where.
>Nonsense Orthodoxy had the Roman and Russian Empires
Neither Byzantium nor Russia was a colonialist power.
> groups like the JWs and Baptists and even groups like the Buddhists and Mormons managed to spread beyond race and ethnicity despite not having imperial backing
It's a lot easier to convert to them, and they have power retention rates for converts: while we might get drops outs from people raised in our faith, our retention rate for converts is extremely highly.
>I actually want to know what they are doing. Saying "evangelizing" doesnt answer that.
They build missions and host community projects and volunteer works and encourage parishioners to witness the faith.
>>1374117
Converts in Europe are more handled by Russia and Romania, but they have much better activities there, including Western Rite parishes.
We have plenty of missions.
You Orthodox guys really have to make a point on everything. It's like you're having some kind of existential crisis or some shit.
>>1374109
There's literally nothing wrong with the church being divided according to ethnicity, as God intended, and not be Tower of Babel 2.0, as long as there is unity of faith and doctrine. It's what differentiates the orthodox from papist filth. Now get sandwiched by Mohammed and Mahmoud simultaneously.
>>1374158
The failures of the Catholics must be righted
>>1374201
From the outside it looks like a ridiculous slapfight
>>1373239
>When they say 'liberals' do they mean United states liberals, or libertarians/classical liberals?
Yes.
>>1374225
Why do you care? Fuck off back to r/atheism.
>>1373251
Churches should be ethnic and focused on each community, separate but equal.
>>1374255
It's fun to watch. If you're going to fill this board with religious shitflinging then put on a good show at least
ITT: people are buttblasted that there exist people in this world who would rather pray in peace with their community than be in a multicultural cesspit 247, even though this doesn't affect their lives in the slightest.
WHY DO YOU CARE? Why don't our go disturb a Jewish synagogue, or an African animist gathering, or a Japanese Shinto temple and complain that they are not diverse enough?!
>>1374270
The same reason they scream about MUH MISOOGENEE but don't give a shit about the middle east.
It's all psychological issues
>>1374134
>That was because some parishes were being strictly ethnic over a hundred years ago, that doesn't happen anymore, no parish designates which ethnicity is to go where.
Well we are certainly feeling the hangover.
>Neither Byzantium nor Russia was a colonialist power.
Clearly false when it comes to Russia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_colonization_of_the_Americas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_conquest_of_Siberia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansion_of_Russia_1500%E2%80%931800
And of course
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification
>The campaign also promoted the Russian Orthodox faith over Catholicism. The measures used included closing down Catholic monasteries, officially banning the building of new churches and giving many of the old ones to the Russian Orthodox church, banning Catholic schools and establishing state schools which taught only the Orthodox religion, requiring Catholic priests to preach only officially approved sermons, requiring that Catholics who married members of the Orthodox church convert, requiring Catholic nobles to pay an additional tax in the amount of 10% of their profits, limiting the amount of land a Catholic peasant could own, and switching from the Gregorian calendar (used by Catholics) to the Julian one (used by members of the Orthodox church).
As for the Byzantine Empire they too engaged in imperialism and suppression of local faiths.
>>1374302
2
>It's a lot easier to convert to them, and they have power retention rates for converts: while we might get drops outs from people raised in our faith, our retention rate for converts is extremely highly.
Source, or is this just based on the Antiochian church in the US? If the baptists and other such groups such as the Mormons who had violent government opposition to them had such low retention rates how come they have managed to last centuries and spread?
>They build missions and host community projects and volunteer works and encourage parishioners to witness the faith.
Can you show me some US examples? are the Antiochan churches the only ones doing this?
The fact that the Baptists mangaged to secure a strong and lasting presence in the US and Africa seems to demonstrate that you can spread without colonialism or state backing.
>They build missions and host community projects and volunteer works and encourage parishioners to witness the faith.
I was asking for sources and documents about missionary works in the US not vauge statements.
>We have plenty of missions.
In the same way that you have "plenty" of converts with a church that represents less than 1% of the orthodox population
>>1374322
sorry had a formatting issue
>>1374200
>There's literally nothing wrong with the church being divided according to ethnicity, as God intended, and not be Tower of Babel 2.0, as long as there is unity of faith and doctrine. It's what differentiates the orthodox from papist filth. Now get sandwiched by Mohammed and Mahmoud simultaneously.
When you combine it with myopic and unorganized evangilsation efforts
>>1373226
>hedonistic ideology bleeding the peoples of Europe and the interests of the capitalist elite, who need a cheap and disenfranchised workforce:
The Orthodox Church is so fucking based.
The true Church of Christ!
>>1374703
yes, a strict immigration policy sound exactly like something Jesus would endorse.
That and blessing missiles
>>1374730
t. atheist liberal
Funny how all of a sudden these people care about what Jesus did or did not teach...
>>1373287
Most Americans Greeks and Slavs also have significant Germanic ancestry
>>1373332
Opposing usury is not anything like young-eartherism, is this what the capitalists are teaching nowadays?
>>1373286
Fundies accuse the Game Master of being the literal Anti-Christ.
gotta love the Orthodox banter
usury must be taken as dogma however it's perfectly fine to forget "go and preach the gospel" because >muh ethnic club
>>1374758
I think you should care, being as you believe he is God...
>>1374779
It makes no sense if you know anything about economics.
I'm sorry if you subscribe to some backwards system that economists have rejected since the days Adam Smith
>>1374730
I do not think Jesus would endorse allowing wolves into your home
>>1374802
You don't understand economics truly if you genuinely believe that the academic discipline of economics is worth anything at all.
>>1374802
It makes no (simplistic) sense from a private business/lender perspective. Hypothetically, if usury was banned and private businesses no longer engaged in money-lending because there were no interest rates then the government taking up the slack may work because lending money to candidates that meet requirements is in the interests of a government because it would mean more tax revenue down the road.
Of-course to pay for the large bureaucracy that would manage this money you would either have to increase taxes or privatize education or something.
>>1374821
Jesus ate with sinners and told stories about good Samaritans, basically heretics to Jews of his time. The idea he would not welcome these people is laughable
Frankly your just wrong on this and you hate these people to much to see it.
>>1374863
>N N NO! you dont understand economics is useless because it does not validate my world view!
Ok buddy, sure,
>>1374905
Color me surprised, the anon who thinks that usury is good also supports mass immigration.
Also, my opposition to usury isn't biblical it's because unrestrained usury inevitably leads to a situation in which the institutions of high finance become the absolute epicenter of power.
>>1374905
So, you can show us somewhere in the bible where Jesus told nation states to take in immigrants?
>>1374905
Your pic's approach is correct, by the way. If the bible indeed said 2 + 2 = 5, the correct approach is to figure out how men got it wrong lo these many years.
Oddly enough, the bible says nothing akin to 2 + 2 = 5, but there's enough in there to contradict "mainstream liberal thinking" in exactly the same manner.
>>1374932
I think an economic system could withstand some usury, especially one outlined in the bible where all debt is eradicated every 7 years.
No economic system can withstand the assault of compounded interest. Compounded interest makes money fictional, and that fictional money continues to make more fictional money until there is an inevitable collapse.
A steak dinner used to cost $0.25 a century ago; it's not the quality of the dinner that drove the price up to $50.
>>1374961
Read my lips: The bible is a collection of documents written by people living in different times. I'm not gonna say whether they're better times, or worse times, or whether they people were better, or whatever. They were different.
Why on Earth do you think God directly mandated a human write anything down ever? Isn't the point for us to find the right path ourselves, through free will? Why reject all that with prophecy and arbitrarily scheduled visits and flesh incarnations as unlikely people living under the Roman Empire?
Why the utter confidence that these documents aren't just people enforcing their contemporary worldview, which, while insightful in some regards, is arguable in others? Why rely on the wisdom of one set point in history, and disregard all that has come to pass just because some fallible jackass didn't sign -God at the bottom?
>>1374977
The point you make is the thing that stops me personally from committing to Orthodoxy. I respect Orthodoxy because while some values may change I don't think all values should change and because of this Orthodoxy is...a useful societal tool in my opinion. But, as you pointed out, it is hard to accept the bible as the word of god assuming there even is a god who would bother with humans.
This leaves me in a conundrum because I know the emotion/feeling that is Faith/spirituality but I can-not direct it in a way that would seem genuine to me. This leaves a part of me hugely unsatisfied.
>>1373267
>>1373275
I post on /x/, and while they have "succubus" threads or whatever, I've never seen worse roleplaying and hypocrisy than I do from Orthodox and Catholic Christfags.
>muh crusades (I only participate in via the keyboard)
>muh evil shitskins (praise the hebrew messiah pls thnx)
>muh YEC are irrational (but exorcism cures demon posession)
>muh heretics (ignoring that the Catholic and Orthodox churches both have significant doctrinal deviations from Oriental Orthodoxy, which itself has a better claim to historical legitimacy)
>muh evil West (Russian troops in Ukr? Post proofs pls ;3)
>muh globalism is bad (Hello indigenous person, may I interest you in the Word?)
>muh degeneracy (posted to a website with 16 or so porn boards)
I'm sure not all Orthodoxfags are this bad, but the recent converts posting here and elsewhere sure as fuck are.
>>1375039
Are you a Catholic? You're reminding me of Saint Augustine's quote: "For my part, I should not believe the gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church." Meaning tradition and the divine nature of the Church are what legitimizes the gospel, and not the other way around.
>>1375045
Orthodox converts in the US are the fucking worse. They're babies in the faith, Protestants at heart, and run around making asses of themselves instead of dedicating themselves to learning and experiencing the faith.
This isn't just Orthodox converts, but they're one of the most prominent recent examples. Another example would be the "Young, Restless, Reformed" types who discovered Calvinism on the Internet and instead of learning their traditions start running around whacking people over the head with "TULIP" and John Piper sermons.
Any convert to anything needs to sit down and shut the fuck up for at least 5 years before they should be allowed out in public.
>>1374905
>Jesus ate with sinners and told stories about good Samaritans, basically heretics to Jews of his time. The idea he would not welcome these people is laughable
Good job missing the point of those stories.
>>1375058
I forgot:
>muh tradition (spoken from a movement that's had multitudes of internal fracturing and significant tweaking between recensions of practice and doctrine)
>>1375065
You have to remember that liberals pretty much reject the Old Testament and any New Testament writings that don't feature a story about feeding the poor, etc. Essentially they know that these stories have a context, and they don't like them.
>>1375072
Cry MOAR.
Liberal tears delight me.
>>1375045
>muh globalism is bad (Hello indigenous person, may I interest you in the Word?)
>Orthodox
>evangelizing
Quit your bullshit son
>>1375089
>anyone who accepts that traditional codes are always in a state of flux is a hardline poison-haired liberal
Swing and a miss.
>>1375091
http://www.ocmc.org/
>>1373445
This does nothing to prove your point.
>>1373382
>Medieval theologians had no clue what they were talking about when it came to economics
>>1375098
All of the people Jesus saved from sin wanted to be saved, and their sin hurt themselves most of all.
These barbarians are not the same
>>1375146
>these barbarians
Name me three (3) figures in Syrian culture or literature. Tell me which fiqh you have the most problems with, and why, using citations and those you find more acceptable to Western inclinations.
Otherwise you've got little room to call others barbarians being an undereducated oaf yourself who complains about a group he has zero working knowledge of.
>>1375091
Evangelization is not globalism. Especially not how the orthodox have done it, that is by helping to set up a church and then leaving.
>>1375154
I am talking of the mass of refuse currently flooding Europe, which is not made up exclusively of Syrians, but other Middle Easterners and Africans, who use the mischance of war as a way to profit.
And why should I care for their culture? They are coming to my country, not I to theirs. And their barbarism is plain to see; their way of life at odds with Western secularism.
You defend them as a dog does a master, but they'd slit your throat the moment it'd benefit them
>>1375157
>Evangelization is not globalism
>coercing people into economic systems that aren't part of their tradition is evil
>coercing people into religious systems that aren't a part of their tradition is fine, and certainly does not contribute to global interconnectedness between dominant and subservient groups, nor does it homogenize culture
Top lel, mate, supplanting the ideologies and traditions of one group with that of a dominant first world tradition is the very definition of globalism...unless only things you dislike are globalism.
>>1375166
No I was just checking to see if you had any working notions of the cultures you label as barbarous, not actually defending the Salafism of extremists.
>>1375183
Syrian culture by itself is not barbaric, but the actions of these migrants definitely are
>>1375193
I've worked side by side Syrian and Yemeni migrants. Didn't seem like human refuse to me.
Probably worked better than you would in context.
What's hilarious to me is you got all these keyboard warriors who wanna halt the brown menace, but are too cowardly to go fight the cause of the mass migration...that or they don't want to help the Kurds because >muh marxism.
>>1374977
2 Timothy 3:16-17
>>1375154
Syrian = Assyrian.
Show me in the bible something good about the Assyrians. The people who skinned their enemies alive and impaled them on stakes to die.
>>1375220
Every people did evil things 2 millennia ago. Who the Syrians are now is not who they were in biblical times.
Having said that. I still don't want them moving here.
>>1375173
You don't force anything on people politically, they themselves must decide what direction they want their nation to go.
And from a Christian perspective, there is nothing foreign about Christianity to anyone, as it is God's eternal truth.
>>1375220
The crime rate in my modest midwestern large town is almost nil, and when there is crime, it's not the evil Assyrians staying true to their dark biblical roots, it's almost always some trailer trash fuckwit spun out of his mind on crank.
So, why the Catholic church panders to the progressive left, the Orthodox church is doubling down and pandering to the other side of the Alt-Right?
Yeah, that sounds like typical ideological poaching.
>>1375243
>it's only globalism when I don't like it
>my desire for a one world global Christian brotherhood is different from the Salafist desire for a one world global Islamic caliphate, I swear
I see.
>>1375235
From what I've seen of ISIS, they're the exact same people, and nothing has changed at all.
>>1375248
I have a great idea! Let's put 1000 Syrian refugees in your nice quiet town and see who turns whom to their own way?
>>1373789
Not him, but I would like to point out that Eater in not a Catholic name of Passover, it's a Germanic heathen name for it. It's still called by its original name (albeit modified for the different languages) in romance languages.
Germanics, not even once.
bump for the one true Church of Christ
>>1375705
>Eater
lel
>>1375146
>These barbarians
If Ive missed the point than so did the western church because their opinion on the issue is the similar if not the same as mine.
and while I am a liberal, I am a classical liberal, not a bleeding heart progressive
>tfw you will never have an orthodox qt gf
>>1373378
The Orthodox are like Catholics that were put on pause for 1,000 years. They have absolutely no development, more so because they can't agree on anything as a whole than not wanting development. They can't even come to an agreement on how many councils were ecumenical and this is a church that is supposedly run by ecumenical councils for fucks sake. Basically if an organism doesn't adapt to its current environments over time it dies, the Catholic Church is like a living organism that survives wherever it's planted. This is why the Orthodox have been on a decline since the split and always get the short end of the stick.
