How do we prevent the Americanisation of history before it's too late?
>>1367450
Crashing the american empire
With no survivors
>>1367450
>being for the revision of history and denying of American importance
>>1367467
Germans would have been defeated with or without the Americans.
Even Britain's contribution was more important.
>>1367472
The same Britain lead by Winston "awake all night for American ships" Churchill?
Kill the jews, blacks, muslims, turks, and anglos
>>1367450
That isn't very accurate either
France was full of commies back then, no wonder they chose USSR
>how can we stop people from learning more about history
I dunno
>>1367472
>consistently fail to do anything in 10 years leading up to conflict
>get btfo in france and swim back across the channel
>polish pilots from the nation the eternal anglo sacrificed have to defend your shithole island
>cower in the bombed out ruins of shithole cities for 4 entire years while getting btfo by japs in the pacific
>finally come back to europe and let americans do everything
>B-BUT WE CONTRIBUTED
The UK is the Italy of the Allies.
>>1367499
>Neville Chaimberlain consistently tries to appease the Nazi Regime with the vain hope it'll go away
>France fails to hold up its end of the bargain with the whole we'll-do-the-army-part
>Maintain air superiority over their nation
>Stopped the spaghettis in Africa
>Flatten German Cities and took back Burma
>finally come back to europe and face more resistance than most of the US forces
Stop Americanizing everything
>>1367482
>>1367499
Britain cracked the codes, sported naval supremacy and was at the forefront of technological development before surrendering their knowledge to the Americans, without which we'd probably have a Democratic People's Republic of Japan in Hokkaido and the northern part of Honshu.
>>1367490
>I dunno
You clearly do know how to not learn about history if you believe it wasn't the Soviets who beat Nazi Germany.
>>1367524
Well, you're right, but it doesn't matter at all.
If it hadn't been for the Normandy Landings and the subsequent liberation of France, the Red Army would have rolled to the channel, and France would have ceased to exist as anything other than a Stalinist vassal state.
If anything, a Russian "liberation" would have been worse than the Germans.
So French people, having had some time to realize what communism actually does, are going to vote for the people who saved their countries ass.
>>1367573
Yes but the question isn't "which was the morally superior country?" it's "which country contributed most to Germany's defeat?".
>>1367578
People taking polls are going to think in terms of their own lives, which in this case means "who saved my ass."
That said, the USSR probably couldn't have beaten Germany without American help.
The Germans could never have made it across the Urals, but if there was a magical history simulator, I'd bet money the line would have stabilized somewhere in between Berlin and Moscow.
>>1367523
>Stopped italy
I seem to recall a man named Rommel who kicked your anglo ass.
I also recall a man named Patton who saved your anglo ass.
Oh, but you managed to mop up the fucking Italians. Congratu-fucking-lations. You beat the biggest joke of a belligerent in WW2.
>That time America crushed the Carthaginian Empire
>>1367584
Not only did american intervention split german forces on two fronts, the americans also supplied the commies. Commies would've lost guaranteed, even with their shit weather. Just would've prevented adolf from taking all their land, but he'd get plenty of oil regardless.
Should've never supported the damn russians. Maybe western europe wouldn't be so fucked today.
>>1367450
What's wrong with it?
>>1367608
Based Scipio Alabamacus
WE
>>1367483
This
The ango is the eternal ally of the jew
Butthurt surrender frogs still trying to claim karl the large as a frank
>>1367573
The question is
>Which is, according to you, the nation that contributed more in the defeat of Germany in 1945?
US interference was vital for the good of western Europe, but not to the defeat of the Germans. French knew this back in 1945, but don't anymore.
>>1367450
What does it say?
>>1367665
Please tell me this is bait, if you were over the age of 6 you could figure it out without speaking French
>>1367450
doesn't matter, as long as the brits stay irrelevant, as they should be
>>1367664
The short answer being that it couldn't have happened without both nations.
The US contributed more to defeating the Germans that happened to be located in France though.
>>1367662
He was a Frank, but that's totally different from being French.
>>1367687
That could have been done by the Russians, the difference is that the Iron Courtain would have been located at the Pyrenees and La Manche.
>>1367732
>That could have been done by the Russians
I doubt this.
The US gave critical help in a lot of things.
Radar, oil refineries, designing most of the USSR's factories for them, a huge amount of the Red Air Force, three quarters of the entire Red Army truck fleet, grain, oil, locomotives, enough tanks that at historical loss rates, the USSR would have run out of tanks without US help.
what country has a comparable history?
>born out of rebellion
>instituted a form of democracy and capitalism that would be emulated worldwide
>ended the use of slaves
>pioneered science, engineering, and mathematics
>kickstarted worldwide modernization due to two industrial revolutions
>helped develop central america and south america with things like the panama canal
>saved the world in two different wars
>became a beacon of culture through entertainment, science, fashion, and city-planning
and that not even including the 21st century you pleb
>>1367739
Did the Nazis have the infrastructure to keep fighting after Berlin had been taken?
The US could still have provided goods without being directly involved in the war, it was business.
>>1367450
They are all wrong. It was japan, when they attacked US.
>>1367761
I don't think the Soviets had the capacity to push to Berlin.
You may be aware, Berlin and Moscow are far away from one another.
In fact, the Soviets had to push well over a thousand miles to get from defending Moscow to taking Berlin.
Also, US/UK strategic bombing was brutal for German war production, and the second front helped somewhat.
Even when it was just fucking around in Africa, having a second front open creates a tremendous organizational burden.
>>1367483
this would also create world peace tbqh
>>1367483
Why does everyone hate anglos all of a sudden?
>>1367760
>ended the use of slaves
That was Britain, the US only ended the use of slaves in the US.
>pioneered science, engineering, and mathematics
Britain, Germany, France were the pioneers. America made great advancements by virtue of being an economic hub that attracted many immigrants.
>helped develop central america and south america
Read: toppled democratically elected leaders and supported military dictatorships out of fear of gommies
>with things like the panama canal
Which they monopolized and later massacred Panamanian protesters who weren't in agreement with the US ripping all the benefits.
>saved the world in two different wars
The German Empire wasn't evil, the US just picked a side. Stop memeing.
>became a beacon of culture through entertainment, science, fashion, and city-planning
There's a reason Americanization is generally regarded as a bad thing in most countries.
>>1367788
t. Zinn
>>1367793
I don't even know where that name is supposed to be from.
>>1367483
>I'm a stereotypical eaglelander.
No thanks
>>1367808
Howard Zinn,
I wanted to get at least one really worthless post in.
Anyway, it's kind of dumb to compare the US to an idealized state instead of comparing it to the alternatives that existed during the time period.
Oh, and American culture is the best culture.
>>1367812
American culture sucks.
>overt cultural capitalism
>embedded with bullshit magical stories written by bronze age hermits
>sprinkles of bigotry here and there
>racism
>homophobia
>>1367838
Do you think racism is uniquely American?
Because if you start looking at history, you are unlikely to be happy with what you see.
>>1367842
I don't care. All cultures that espouse racism are shit in the sense of failure to uphold equality.
>>1367812
>American culture is the best culture.
No, it's not. Even Latin America has a better culture, not to say with other actual cultures like Europe, East Asia, etc.
>>1367483
found the chink
>>1367838
>There's a reason Americanization is generally regarded as a bad thing in most countries.
You could say that about any culture, many people generally don't want other cultures other than their own.
>>1367472
Yeaaaahhhhh no. The US was important both in terms of direct combat and also due to contributions to the other two combatants economies.
Without the US Germany may well have "won" the war, in the sense of getting a favorable peace settlement anyway.
>>1367760
>born out of rebellion
Like nearly every other colonial nation or european state
>pioneered science, engineering, and mathematics
Only in the modern era, the big science names were Europeans in the WW1 and Victorian era.
>became a beacon of culture through entertainment, science, fashion, and city-planning
The fact you're a nation of a couple hundred million helps with cultural and scientific output
>>1367867
Few cultures have as many negative connotations as American culture.
>McDonalds, rapping, consumerism, anti-intellectualism.
>>1367889
Literally nothing wrong with rap music itself. Ask any European and he'll point you to the nearest terrible regional musical style.
>>1367867
See >>1367889
America has some of the shittiest politics in the west
>Democrats being over run by regressive """"""liberals""""""
>Republicans pander to fears of cultural decline, religious fantasy, """"socialism"""
>both are literally the same on key issues and are corporate shills
Entirety of America is brainwashed into believing American "democracy" is a thing, when it isn't. At all.
Deregulation has allowed for Corporatism so pervasive that corporations like McDonalds pervade Americana. It is part of American life to eat shitty premade slop. Fucking great right?
Rapping points to the degeneracy of African slums, a direct result of their subjugation 100s of years ago. The fact they've become so degenerate, infesting american culture, and the fact that we've allowed their continual economic subjugation are both shit.
>>1367760
>helped develop central america and south america
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>1367929
>what is goldman sachs
>what is the electoral college
>what is the american obesity epidemic
>what was slavery
>what economic oppression carried out by white elites against blacks in the 1800s
>what are african ghettos
>>1367905
The difference being that Rap is a multi-million dollar industry and celebrates themes of debauchery, drug use and prostitution, among other things, while terrible European music is just bad sounding weird songs your dad and some hipsters insist are somehow good.
>>1367929
Terrible use of a terrible buzzword.
>>1367937
Debauchery is popular in music in general.
See: Nasheeds, Narcocorridos, good rock music
>>1367937
>debauchery, drug use and prostitution, among other things,
So many fungicide genre's involve shit like that you idiot Rap doesn't have excursive rights to that.
>>1367936
The ghettos are in America dumbass.
I can understand Black or African American ghettos but African? what kind of moron do you have to be?
>>1367953
You do know there are other points here being brought up here right? Not just blacks and rap?
Also you're just reducing you're argument to semantics now. What kind of moron do YOU have to be?
>>1367959
There's a ton of up thing about other nations that isn't exclusive to America that they did while in the past as the power of the day.
>>1367953
I don't think you understand that Rap is terrible because all of the following:
a) It's terrible music, second only to Latin American Raggaeton in lack of quality (and this is the only reason Rapping isn't the absolute worst music in the world, because all of this applies to Raggaeton too.)
b) It's extremely popular in the US
c) It has a terrible culture surrounding it
>>1367961
Yea no shit, but it pervaded American culture quite viscerally don't you say?
>kkk
>black codes
>separate but equal
>jim crow laws
>>1367964
The funny part is that before gangsta rap hit in the early 90s, rap was mostly either political epithets or party music.
Also, if you can listen to It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back and call that terrible music, I think you just have a terrible brain.
>>1367968
You're joking right?
>>1367787
>all of a sudden
they're legitimately loathsome
they have victimized just about every group on the planet
>>1367787
Anglos and Germans are the source of evil in this world.
>>1367990
>he dislikes Public Enemy
You best back the fuck up before you get smacked the fuck up bitch nigger
>>1367994
Why did those groups let themselves be victimized? Anglos had the means to take what they wanted, unlike the other subhumans on this planet, and should be recognized for their brilliance
>>1367937
All associated with capitalism, any country that had near the amount of military and economic power and culture influence would see the same criticisms. And there are plenty of other cultures that get hate too, that would be even more reviled if they wielded the same amount of power the United States does.
>>1367909
Rap music isn't nearly as bad as you say it is, look past the top 40 consumerist garbage.
>>1368024
That top 40 consumerist garbage is your culture.
>>1368041
No it's not. What's considered good =/= what is considered popular
>>1368045
1. What is popular is considered good my the majority, else it wouldn't be popular.
2. What is popular is what comes to define culture, to an extent.
3. That extent is multiplied in American culture, where shallow entertainment is applauded.
>>1367457
The fire rises
>>1368050
top 40 is just the most listened to songs, not the song that the majority of the population listens to. top 40 is youth-oriented but there are more older people in the states than young
>where shallow entertainment is applauded.
as is 'deeper' entertainment
>>1368058
Ignore him, he probably thinks culture = muh old buildings.
>>1368041
Brah, top 40 is for people who actually listen to radio and buy records.
Which is nobody in the US.
>>1368058
People that enjoy entertainment that actually has depth or do not enjoy shallow entertainment loved by the masses are derided as snobs. It's part of the anti-intellectualism going on.
>>1368063
I never mentioned architecture, faggot.
But now that you've brought it up, while I have nothing for or against American Architecture (which is mostly neo-classical and modern, so the term American is a poor fit, all things considered), I have to say that traditional southern style house construction is hideous. I think you know what type of houses I'm talking about. Obviously that's just my opinion.
>>1367613
>Commies would've lost guaranteed
>Against an overstretched, badly equipped, outnumbered 3 to 1 German Army commanded by a civilian fuckwit who thought he was a general
Yeah, no.
>>1368078
>Russians can fight with no tanks, no planes, no oil, and no food
wew
>>1367760
>>1368084
>What are the Yak-3 and IL-2
>What are the Siberian oil fields
>What is Southern Siberian agriculture
>>1368120
>What are the Yak-3 and IL-2
Not produced in nearly large enough numbers to supply the Red Air Force.
>What are the Siberian oil fields
Inadequate for the red army, and dependent on American expertise for oil refining.
>What is Southern Siberian agriculture
A pattern is beginning to develop.
>>1367673
How do i copy and paste the text from an image
>>1367777
Quads confirm
>>1367483
You forgot the Chinese.
>>1368139
There are browser based image scanners around.
>>1367524
>forefront of technological development
>never had a semi-automatic rifle
>never had a self-loading pistol
>never had a tank with sloped armor
>never had a english designed light machine gun
>>1368139
I thought his point was that through the words "nation", "contribué", "défaite", "Allemagne" and 1945 plus the graph, it's easy to tell what's going on in the picture.
>>1368155
>they had the first computers
>but they didn't have technology because not enough /k/
>>1367909
>both are literally the same on key issues and are corporate shills
isn't that most western democracies?
>>1367450
It's already too late.
We've reached critical mass relevancy.
>>1368186
Yes, but his point is to be contrarian, not informative.
>>1368074
>traditional southern style house construction
do you mean plantations? i always thought they were quite nice
>>1368223
I was hesitant to use that name because I wasn't sure if it referred to the house, but yes.
Like I said, I know it's just my subjective opinion, but I really don't like them.
>>1367490
Nah anon it's not learning history.
Try watching "A Bridge too Far". In the beginning you have "historical background" of the whole thing with phrases like "1944, WW2 was still running like Hitler wanted and then D-Day started" - you know we're talking about the part of war after Bargation, conquest of Rome etc.. And that movie isn't and wasn't alone.
This is the reason why this "shift" happened, not "education"
>>1367591
Operation Torch came after El Alamein.
The Soviets made a concentrated effort to sell the West short, the fact people believed the Russian juggernaut was the primary reason Germany lost is definitely not surprising.
But these people surveyed were unaware of the fact Russians were driving American trucks, wearing American boots, and eating American food. Even if you want to say the Russians made a lot of their own cars, most of the ones they did produce were licensed Studebakers, American trucks driven by Russians were so common they had their own nickname by German soldiers, although I forget the exact nickname.
Now if you want to argue the Russians didn't need direct US MILITARY help I believe that is totally accurate. But both with the voracity with which Soviets denied the importance of Lend Lease, along with the fact many Russians called this a complete lie, along with the fact that Lend Lease gave the Soviets so fucking much vital material and materiel makes me believe Lend Lease was absolutely vital in the Russians winning the war.
Above all, the food was completely invaluable. In 1945 the Soviets were on the brink of famine in many areas, and this was with spam shipments. Take away American Lend Lease and the Soviets experience extreme hunger problems as early as 1943.
An army can't fight without weapons and it can't fight without food. You need both, one or the other isn't enough.
>>1367613
>Not only did american intervention split german forces on two fronts
By the time they've created actually big western front(Italy was significant but not that big), Russians were already sitting on Vistula river.
That's the German part of occupied Poland.
>>1367760
>born out of rebellion
The Netherlands?
>instituted a form of democracy and capitalism that would be emulated worldwide
Most developed nations don't use FPTP and various "proto" capitalistic relations started in the Low Countries and Northern Italy - with things like banks, manufactures etc. Industrial revolution started in Britain.
>ended the use of slaves
Majority of Europe outlawed slavery by 1865, in fact - long before 1865. And there were some countries, like Brazil that had it for little longer.
>pioneered science, engineering, and mathematics
That's British, Germans and French.
>kickstarted worldwide modernization due to two industrial revolutions
British had bigger influence on the first, on 2nd it was split between Germany, Britain, France, US even fucking Belgium, all of them industrialised at around the same time.
>helped develop central america and south america with things like the panama canal
American enforced free trade destroyed local CA/SA economy that was still there
>saved the world in two different wars
WW2 you can argue, WW1 - not really
>became a beacon of culture through entertainment, science, fashion, and city-planning
>entertainment, science, fashion, and city-planning
niggers, chinks, faggots, globalists
sure you showed me great contributions to mankind
Rap is not a music. It's a musical poetry.
>>1367499
>consistently fail to do anything in 10 years leading up to conflict
>not realizing that based Neville was stalling for time since the brit military was shit at the time of the munich agreement
>not knowing that literally the first thing he did after returning from the conference was to phone up the army to tell them to ramp up arms production
>>1367608
Hey, remember that time George Washington killed Napoleon?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxzG5phONsQ
>it's another autistic euros buttmad at the greatest nation thread
>>1368276
>niggers, chinks, faggots, globalists
Still doesn't mitigate American achievements at all.
>>1367483
Chink spotted.
>>1367450
>How do we prevent the Americanisation of history before it's too late?
One way to do it would be having a strong domestic media industry. Japan manages to do this, but European countries somehow fucking refuse this. Maybe they enjoy sucking American cock.
After all, the media tell a story. When it's American media, they tell an American story. Even non-American events depicted in cinema are only events that appeal to Americans. That's why there's almost no movies on WW1, the Thirty Years War, the Hundred years war and the like, and if they exist they're usually black and white obscure French movies literally nobody cares about.
>>1368332
>greatest nation
>president is a nigger
>>1367499
Yea the RAF was 100% polish
>>1367760
>instituted a form of democracy and capitalism that would be emulated worldwide
You mean Britain?
>>1369007
A country that would not become a democracy until at least 1917 and debatably isn't a democracy even today?
At best Britain can claim to be the craddle of liberalism, and even then the political establishment ignored most of Locke writings.
>>1368249
>Americans supported Russians materially, therefore part of the Soviet credit should go to America on top of American contributions
In that case you won't object to conceding that America bears responsibility for the war itself due to what people like Henry Ford did.
>>1369029
>due to what people like Henry Ford did
You're pretending that companies like Ford, GM and IBM were the bulk of the Nazi war machine which isn't true. America was indisputably the largest manufacturer and supplier of raw materials and war materiel for the Soviet Union. If even Stalin and Zhukov can admit it, so can you вaтник
>>1369011
I think you mean 1649
>>1368323
I found that show fun, but Jesus did they have a raging America boner
>>1369046
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recruiter_elections
>For the entire existence of the English Commonwealth, no elections were held whatsoever
>Popular sovereignity wasn't even a concept
Sure thing m8.
>>1369080
>but Jesus did they have a raging America boner
Unintentionally. Despite it being shit, I think there was actually an episode where the Americans lost (Marines vs Israeli special forces or something). The backlash was so grand that the creators of the show decided that America was never allowed to lose again, eventually leading to the Washington vs Napoleon retardation.
>>1367450
It's impossible. The Marshall Plan won. We all lost. Soon we're all going to be fat dumb americans, eating burgers, drinking starbucks.
It's just a matter of time before the whole world will be standardized and will look like downtown New York.
It's a shame really that Europe allowed to be completely dominate by such a cultureless country like USA.
>>1369091
>It's a shame really that Europe allowed to be completely dominate by such a cultureless country like USA.
I wonder who could be behind that!
>>1369085
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recruiter_elections
You forget that the members of parliament as a result of recruiters were taken from the Long parliament i.e. the last elected parliament they had from before the wars. Coincidentally, the rump/long parliament also had one of the highest voting turnouts
>>1369086
>(Marines vs Israeli special forces or something)
Navy Seals vs Commandos and the seals won. It was Green Berets vs Spetsnaz where the US lost.
>The backlash was so grand that the creators of the show decided that America was never allowed to lose again
Well that explains it at least, still stupid though.
>>1368074
>People that enjoy entertainment that actually has depth or do not enjoy shallow entertainment loved by the masses are derided as snobs. It's part of the anti-intellectualism going on.
i just accept this as true because you said it? 'the masses' don't even uniformly love any single particular entertainment. it's a mark of quality when a show gets 2 mil viewers these days. people can tell the difference between quality 'shallow entertainment' and actually shallow entertainment that seeks to cash in on things considered popular
>>1369040
>You're pretending that companies like Ford, GM and IBM were the bulk of the Nazi war machine which isn't true
I'm not pretending that, I'm pretending that they're the ones responsible for making the Nazi war machine possible in the first place.
Also notice I didn't object to "America was indisputably the largest manufacturer and supplier of raw materials and war materiel for the Soviet Union", just that if this "passive" contribution takes away from the Soviets' overall contribution then so should the material and ideological strengthening of the chief enemy take away from the Americans' overall contribution.
>>1367450
People probably realized the USSR mostly only kept fighting due to lend lease, and stopped the "unbeatable scary red" meme.
Economy > Cannon Fodder
:^)
>>1369126
>I'm pretending that they're the ones responsible for making the Nazi war machine possible in the first place
Well, at least you admit you're pretending instead of calling it reality.
>>1367838
>America is racist homophobic capitalism
You're some kind of pinko aren't you?
Daily reminder it isn't the US fucking with women and gay's rights right now. Your beloved antiamerican islamic """freedom fighters""" do so more. China does so more (look up what passes for a woman's right organization there), Cuba was partially made by the hands of a bigot, and what else... even modern american progressivists (aka leftshits that dobmn't even understand the actual left, which by now is dead and buried) are more bigoted than the normal american culture.
t. Immigrant
>>1367524
>Britain cracked the codes
Poles again ;^)
>>1369126
The Nazi war machine was run on German horses.
The Soviet war machine was run on American trucks, food and fuel. Nice try though.
>>1368513
This is your argument.
>>1367450
Kill the globalists
