If the history spoken by non-assblasted anglos is true, how do Unionists in NI still act so ironclad about the IRA ever being seen as anything other than ISIS tier terrorists?
Everyone I ask about that backwards country says "Irish people were oppressed. Political means to help were met with violence by protestant paramilitary groups who were in cahoots with the very protestant police force. So the IRA stepped in."
Any Unionists on this site chime in with "no surrender" memes and Britbongs talk shit about how irish people in NI were fine and the IRA had no justification in ever attacking anyone.
So what's the story here, lads? Which side is the retards in denial?
There were no laws that said 'Catholics have half a vote'; just laws that made it so Catholics had half as many votes per head than Protestants. Own your home? You could vote. Renting? You could not.
The IRA won voting rights for Catholics, and stopped, allowing the rest of the process to continue peacefully. Of course, some elements didn't stop, either for ideological or financial reasons.
Wanting equal rights for catholics is not the same as being republican.
Being unionist is not the same as wanting to treat catholics as second class citizens.
Unionists and republicans are against eachother. Protestants and catholics are 'against' eachother. There is some overlap between the two issues, but they are not one and the same.
>>1360579
>Wanting equal rights for catholics is not the same as being republican.
It's sort of the same thing. Republicans wanted equal rights for Catholics in the United Kingdom as their minimum necessary requirement, and they got it.
Unionists /do/ want to treat Catholics as second-class citizens, when they oppose votes that would bring counties into the Republic, they're denying those individuals full citizenship (which naturally includes the right to leave).
>>1360579
>not one and the same
Sorry, probably could have worded it better. I often see protestant and unionist grouped together, same with irish/catholic and republican.
I just don't understand that if the IRA had such cause for irish people, how come unionists or protestants in Northern Ireland's media try to portray them so hard as causeless terrorists who where enemies to everyone who never should have existed?
It sounds like while everyone agrees they have no place in NI today, back during the conflict they had every right to be there.
>>1360526
NICRA was justified, IRA was not.
IRA always wanted NI to leave the UK and only took up the civil rights ideas to gain support.
The worst decision made by the Ulster Scots was to deny rights to the catholics but that does not justify the IRA actions.
The Protestant paras were/are scumbags but they mainly formed in reaction to the IRA.
The south has no claim to the north unless if the majority of the NI people want to join the south.
Source: Unionist who hates the paras on both sides and doesn't care if you are a prod or a catholic so long as you don't attack anyone. A lot of Catholics couldn't care about joining the south now anyway which is good.
I actually sympathise with ISIS more than the IRA as ISIS act due to a religious imperative and due to an absolute instead of the IRA's stupid unabsolute politics. If they really cared so much about the republic why don't they vote with their feet and go live there?
>>1360607
>I just don't understand that if the IRA had such cause for irish people, how come unionists or protestants in Northern Ireland's media try to portray them so hard as causeless terrorists who where enemies to everyone who never should have existed?
Why do you THINK?
People who upset the status quo are bad-guys. Even if the status quo is fucking them over.
>>1360590
They have every right to leave by moving to dublin
No, not all unionists supported the discriminatory practices of the sectarian Orange State. Terence O'Neill tried to bring in reforms before he was sabotaged by the radical supremecists inside his own party. And indeed there are still many hardline bigots within the mainstream unionist parties today.
The IRA was nota force deticated to achieving equal legal rights within the British state (although it certaily helped to achieve that), it was a revolutionary nationalist movement to undo the injustice of partition and illegitmacy of British administration over Irish people.
t. Irish Republican from the north
>>1360622
Oh, you so you reckon while the IRA just wanted "brits fucking out" they actually instead got irish people their rights and their "shared future?
I hear a lot about politicians in NI having IRA backgrounds, is it generally accepted that some of them are still involved or are today's IRA a different bunch of guys?
>>1360621
Or by voting to leave the UK. There would be two or three counties that would vote to join the Republic if they got the chance.
I don't have an issue with a county in the Republic voting to join the UK, or with an Irishman deciding to swear fealty to the Queen, either.
>>1360616
>I actually sympathise with ISIS more than the IRA
wew lad
If you were to say that to me IRL I'd fucking beat the shit out of you because that is just wrong.
>>1360616
>The Protestant paras were/are scumbags but they mainly formed in reaction to the IRA.
The first murder of the troubles was the loyalist killing of an RUC officer in 1966, 3 years before conflict exploded and the IRA was resurrected in the Provos. Loyalist gangs always existed since the start of the state, they were quietly tolerated since they were supportative of that state
>>1360627
The headline was 'Brits fucking out', the reality was a comprehensive campaign to secure political rights for Catholics in the North, with a mind towards a future vote for independence and union with the Republic.
Once they got a shot at doing this peacefully, by securing equal voting rights for Catholics, most of the IRA stopped being violent.
>>1360616
>I actually sympathise with ISIS more than the IRA
Unionism, everyone.
>>1360627
If we are discussing the Provisional movement, it certainly started off with the revolutionary agenda of expelling British rule from Ireland but by the end of the 80's during to a result of war weariness on both sides and acceptance there could be no military victory over the other had moved towards a political settlement with Unionism and the British government. Sinn Fein used it's leverage to campaign for favourable reforms in the peace agreement, while this was no the original aim of it (and many republicans split to become dissitants) it did become a powerful force for political reformation in the British system
As for the other statement, the PIRA is gone. There are plenty of ex-IRA in Sinn Fein but are just involved in political activism
>>1360642
Intredasting.
Obviously I don't "side with the IRA" since I'd prefer no violence, but it's extremely easy to look at Unionists condemning them constantly and say "well it's alright for you."
There's lots of talk about protestant culture being oppressed or attacked, which seems absolutely bizarre to me. Don't they do that march everywhere and light a bunch of shit on fire?
>>1360659
>the PIRA is gone
Go be fat else where americans
>>1360667
>t. Jim Cusack, Sunday Independent
>>1360616
>I actually sympathise with ISIS more than the IRA as ISIS act due to a religious imperative and due to an absolute instead of the IRA's stupid unabsolute politics. If they really cared so much about the republic why don't they vote with their feet and go live there?
You don't. You honestly don't. There is NO religious imperative for either one, and they developed in very different environments.
And besides, which IRA? There are at least three we could talk about.
The one from the Seventies and Eighties phoned in their attacks first; they were not trying to create casualties, they were trying to cost the UK /money/. In most cases when you find out that an IRA bomb killed people, it's one where the authorities did not believe the tip off, or they say there was no tip off. The IRA insists they always gave a tip off except when dealing with military targets.
>>1360660
Don't listen to him.
Do the research yourself. The IRA were not a peaceful organisation who gave up their arms as soon as Catholics were no longer being 'discriminated' against.
This is the modern narrative they give, dressed up in the language of civil rights. They were bloodthirsty terrorists who were dedicated to using violent means to drag Protestants into their 32 county dream.
>>1360675
Oh yes I forgot. The IRA is completely gone.
>>1360526
The crushing irony of the Trouble in NI is that the "Brits" who were settled in the North mostly came from Scotland, and are the descendants of Irish invaders who invaded and colonised Scotland after the Romans left the islands. It's kind of like how the modern Israeli state is mostly made up of Eurojews, who have "returned" to their homeland and now oppress the fuck out of the Pallywogs.... who are in fact Hebrews who converted to Pisslam.
>>1360697
They surrendered on good Friday,they are irrelivant
IRA are just scumbag terrorists. Without the excuse of living in the desert getting bombed all the time.
>>1360697
That poster is like 40 years old, so I'm not sure what you expected to prove by posting it
>>1360692
>Do the research yourself. The IRA were not a peaceful organisation who gave up their arms as soon as Catholics were no longer being 'discriminated' against.
Nobody said the IRA was a peaceful organization.
But they did cease to engage in major operations once they won the rights they were after. Splinter groups, not the main organization, continued with violence.
>>1360716
Nothing really, was just (You) fishing. I would consider myself broadly Nationalist. I just dislike how Republicans try to have it both ways by saying the IRA have left the stage on one hand but sort of mutter pic related on the other.
>>1360732
Who in the Provisonal movement do you know is still claiming the IRA still exists? The only people claiming this are conspiracy theorists in unionism and the D4 media
The only Republican groups still operating have been estranged from Sinn Fein for a long time. For dissitants, they never left the stage
The whole bloody thing is an awful mess.
So many mistakes, so many missed opportunities.
It'll never be made right, it's just going to take time, some distance before people can sit down and talk it rationally. I don't know how I feel about NI, frankly. It's really up to them.
This coming from a chap who had his local pub blown up by the IRA.
>>1360748
>Who in the Provisonal movement do you know is still claiming the IRA still exists?
You ask this as if the Populists who make up Sinn Féin have any credibility at all.
>D4 media
kek
>>1360798
I'm no Shinner anymore but they're not under any illusions about the facts, the IRA confirmed its decommisioning in 2005 and that is a good thing for them.
>>1360808
>the IRA confirmed its decommisioning in 2005 and that is a good thing for them
agreed
They haven't stopped existing though, which is not necessarily a bad thing. It was probably the best course of action to take in order to preserve the post Belfast Agreement peace.
wew
e
w
>hear that unionists are triggered by anyone messing with muh 12th july
>hear about camp twadell
>it's real
tippity toppity fucking kek, what a bunch of babies
>>1360526
*Eternal Anglo and his friends takes a chunk of the Irish people's land for themselves*
WE DINDU NUFFIN WE GAVE DEM IRISH CIVILIZATION THE UNION IS FINE
>>1360526
The Anglos and proddy tards are retarded. The Ulster Loyalists are the worst.
Any questions for a Unionist?
>>1362445
Are unionists largely aware that the Red Hand for ulster existed previous to the British setting foot in Ireland?
Also, why the fuck do you guys get so fucking triggered?
>Flag protests
>Camp Twadell
>muh orange order
>muh PSNIRA
>muh "unionists and british did literally nothing wrong"
>muh IRA were all unforgiveable terrorists
>muh all irish republicans are terrorist sympathisers
>muh voting the same god awful party into power every fucking year
>muh battle of the boyne despite being largely ignorant of the history of it
>muh protestant culture """""""""oppression""""""""
I don't get it. Why are you guys so fucking mad?
>>1362445
do unionists not do history in school
>constantly saying fuck the pope
>constantly sucking King William's dick
>not knowing that the Pope was one of William's biggest allies during the Battle of the Boyne
>being a unionist and knowing history
w e w
My actual question is why haven't you killed yourself yet?
>>1360590
Yeah, but that's not just limited to the NI conflict, that's true of most separatist movements (here, I'm classing the IRA has separatist because they want to leave the UK and join the Republic). The UN still hasn't figured out how to balance countries' rights to territorial integrity against people's rights to self-determination. While your perspective is certainly valid, the Unionists' argument that NI is their homeland and any counties leaving it would prevent them from traveling within their country and being subjects of the Crown is equally persuasive.
>>1361498
The eternal Anglo must fulfill his insatiable desire to displace local populations, whether that be the Irish, the Palestinians, or the Native Americans
My Irish people are only 'Irish' and nationalist when it's either paddy's day or when Ireland are playing in the Euros; they'll wave the flag and sing the songs then, any other time no one cares and those who supposedly do are either crooked IRA members or Sell out Sinners who don't mind latching onto Cultural Marxism - 'It's the green island, not the white island.' says Gerry Adams.
All it took was one generation after the troubles for us to end up like every other peaceful western nations; a shambles with a dying or dead identity and our past leaders all dead or well in line with what it means to be a politician: An oleaginous faggot serving their interests.
>>1366386
>my irish people
Who are you describing?
Ireland used to be cool
What went wrong
>>1366859
"Used to be cool" meh.
Cool stories, but most of being Irish is about being that guy alongside lots of other more relevant guys, but still making an equal amount of noise.
Ireland has essentially been cucked by bigger, more relevant nations for ages, but we've also always annoyingly forced ourselves into relevance through cultural/religious means or by having annoyingly good fighters.
We aren't relevant, and never will be relevant, other than providing great workers, but that's part of it, I guess. You can't be a tiny island next to somewhere like the UK and be an equal to them, but by fuck can you be a thorn in their side till the die they tear themselves apart into obscurity.
>>1366866
I guess we're basically Finland or Korea. Doomed to forever play second fiddle to our bigger, badder neighbours.
We used to command a bit of international clout though, even if it was something as simple as the King of France going "oh yeah I like those guys". Now we're basically "not England".
>>1366918
>Now we're basically "not England".
This is really true. I'm English, when i went to Ireland as a kid I genuinely didnt realise i was in another country. Your streets and shops are all the same, your tv channels are basically the same, same cars, same architecture, same culture basically. Only difference is the accent but i can go to places in england with more accent variation than ireland
>>1360616
>I actually sympathise with ISIS more than the IRA as ISIS act due to a religious imperative
I cannot believe someone actually wrote this.
>>1366918
>>1366936
>doomed to play second fiddle to bigger, badder neighbours
Don't look at it like that.
You're Irish. Look at your history.
>"Stronk vikings came to conquer shit, and they conquered a good lot of the british isles
>Ireland managed to remove them with brutal efficiency
>Britain, the nation which conquered half the world, conquers all of Ireland
>Ireland actually managed to rip a majority of the island out from under them, and even the arts still in their control are full of people who identify as Irish and would return it to Irish control in a heartbeat
>Irish monks are known as some of the most essential parts of cultural and technological development during a point in europe
>Ireland constantly chatted shit at nations FAR bigger than they are, with smaller forces or "insignificant" earls or kings absolutely triggering English kings to hell and back
>Through all of this, we come to modern day Ireland and we aren't bitter
>We aren't upset or outraged by history
>We instead just sling savage bants at mainland fags and chuckle as they get triggered
It's a beautiful thing, my guy. Ireland may not have conquered the world, but we conquer any craic we encounter.
>>1362561
They are yes, because it remains as a symbol of the province (of which we mostly own) it is adopted.
A lot get triggered very easily I'll agree. It comes largely out of fear that Irish Nationalist culture is creeping in as the sensible people in the country try to integrate. As much as I love Unionist culture I think it's necessary that some restrictions come in (such as Parade's Commission) in order to make it no longer "a Protestant State for a Protestant People" and what not.
The ignorance part is self explanatory, you'll get uneducated people everywhere you go.
>>1364832
history in schools in the UK (well at least here in NI) is very limited because of how much history we have. So in Primary School (age 4-11) you might do WWII (although only the Blitz usually), Vikings and Egyptians (learn basically nothing) and the Titanic. For Secondary School (11-14) you will do a basic look at The Tudors, Irish Politics in the late 19th and early 20th Century (the necessary stuff for understanding Ireland and Northern Ireland) and you may do a small bit on the Williamite Wars but at that age not in any great detail. This is largely the height of history education unless you choose to continue in it for GCSE, A Level etc.
As for your "actual question": I will soon don't worry x
>>1366936
The "real" Ireland is in the wesht, pretty much. If you go to Connemara or even some parts of Galway you can get a picture of what a modern non-anglicised Ireland might be like.
>>1367005
Thank you for the information.
Unionists still seem like a dying race in denial though.
>>1367024
My 2 cents on it is that as liberalism rises, Unionism declines. All of the Unionist parties (bar one which never gets seats) are conservative parties, although the UUP are centralising which could help it survive. The Nationalist parties being subscribers to the belief in the Socialist Irish Republic and all that have gotten very liberal while maintaining a stance on the union. The Alliance Party will probably grow too as it's liberal with no stance on the union only that a referendum should decide it when the time comes.
Personally as a Conservative and Unionist it's frustrating but some changes are unavoidable. I give my full support to the UUP as a party that is in touch with the people and is the best chance for unionism to survive. In saying all this, Nationalism is at an all time low here with only 32% of Catholics being Unionists, so I'm pleased with that.
>>1367060
Yes, absolutely. I notice that they are all associated with conservative policies, and NI is the only place left in the British Isles without gay marriage, right?
Other than those guys you seem to have nationalist parties, irrelevant parties or parties that don't do anything at all.
I assume the shitty parties get voted in so that the nationalist ones stay out, more than anything else.
>>1367103
yeah tribalism is pretty high. There's no problem with voting for a Unionist party because you are a Unionist but the issue is that for both the DUP and Sinn Fein, they're entire campaign is based off "we're the only unionists/nationalists that can win" so people are afraid to vote for the UUP and the SDLP who were stabbed in the back despite being responsible for the GFA. If we could remove that attitude and have people vote for the party they truly agree with I think we would see a better range in Stormont to govern.
Truthfully the UUP are a lot less Conservative than my beliefs but they are exactly what NI needs, they'll bring unity rather than division.
>>1360590
>>1360579
>doesn't know about the many prominent protestants who have been integral to the development of Irish Republicanism over centuries
>Theobold Wolfe Tone was literally a Protestant and the founding father of Irish Republicanism who set up the United Irishmen to unite both Catholic and Protestants.
>>1365413
The IRA aren't the separatists, they are the Irish ones who were occupied/ colonised. If at the end of British rule in Kenya, some of the Brits threatened violence and got to break away and form their own gerrymandered statelet where they continued their discrimination/ exploitation over a Kenyan minority- you wouldn't call the Kenyans separatist for wanting the Brits out and to be reunited with the rest of the Kenyans
>>1367568
Original IRA of old at the start of the 20th Century could be argued as that, but the PIRA and INLA etc. of the Troubles were not acting in the interests of the majority of Northern Ireland
>>1360667
They literally invited a load of prod ministers to watch them blow all their weapons up.
>>1360526
NI won't even be a thing anymore in 2 years after they rejoin Ireland.
Republicans and IRA supporters won in the end.
>>1360642
>Once they got a shot at doing this peacefully, by securing equal voting rights for Catholics,
How's that? Catholics were not allowed to vote or what?
>>1360616
>The Protestant paras were/are scumbags but they mainly formed in reaction to the IRA.
>UVF formed before the fucking Volunteers
wew laddie
>>1362445
did you vote in the EU referendum?
why do anything democratic if Northern Ireland is a state brought about in opposition to democracy
>>1360616
Why doesn't everyone just move to the place they want? Money. If you think people from West Belfast can afford that then you're not with it.
>>1360616
>The Protestant paras were/are scumbags but they mainly formed in reaction to the IRA.
Literally the other way round you mong, the UVF started the troubles. They were active like 2 years before the 'ra.
>I actually sympathise with ISIS more than the IRA as ISIS act due to a religious imperative and due to an absolute instead of the IRA's stupid unabsolute politics. If they really cared so much about the republic why don't they vote with their feet and go live there?
Obviously a prod can sympathise with religious insanity
>>1366936
I thought this as true until I went to England. You people are weird as fuck, I felt more at home in Greece.
