Is the Caucasus mountain region the original homeland of 'whites' /his/?
>>1355773
1. No
2. There is no such thing as "whites". Japanese people have white skin, but they aren't caucasoid, Spanish people are caucasoid but they are often brown. The original homeland of Europeans, if thats what you mean, is Europe, and the Eurasian steppe.
>>1355777
Good answer
>>1355773
The original homeland of South Europeans is Western Anatolia
>>1355773
No, it's just that a dude decided to name all of us Caucasoids as being like people from the Caucasus. Doesn't mean we originated from there
they're certainly the original homeland of the jews
>>1355777
Japanese are still slightly more pigmented than European Whites.
>>1355893
Only Ashkenazi jews. And that's debateable
>>1355777
Whites are europeans
If I ask what "white" means I guarantee you'll all start ripping each other apart
>Caucasus monkeys
>White
Kek churkas are literally the scum of the earth.
>>1355942
no they aren't. they have black hair and brown eyes but that's it, their skin is really pale
>>1355874
>You'll never marry a thicc Circassian lady
why live
White=light features, mainly eyes and hair. If you have jet black hair and dark brown eyes but are screaming '1488' and are an aspiring KKK wizard, i've good really bad news mongrel-boi.
>>1356239
It's vague enough to be hard to pin down but easy enoughbto alter to exclude.
>>1355773
No, the common homeland of Europeans and Miiddle Easterners is the Levant, then they separated from there.
>>1356799
You have never been to Japan have you? They are fairly swarthy for the most part and their skin color has a different tinge when it's a lighter color, they have separate alleles for skin color than europeans do
europeans are a mixture of native europeans (as in cavemen), neolithic farmers from what is now Turkey (the population of Sardinia and the Basques are the existing populations most closer to them), and the aryans/indoeuropeans horse riding nomads from the steppes of russia and ukraine and uzbekistan who emmigrated/invaded europe.
the proportion changes depending on the country of europe.
the middle east is the craddle of caucasians, as in, neolithic farmers from turkey contributed a lot to the genetics of europeans, neolithic farmers from the zagros contributed a lot to the genetics of iran and pakistan, and neolithic farmers from the levant contributed a lot to the genetics of the current middle east and north africa, and may be the source of afro asiatic languages.
Levantine and Near Eastern people are more closely related to various European groups than Caucasians are. Levantine and Near Eastern people had more influence in founding and contributing to European civilization while Caucasians were/are mostly known for being violent hillbillies and helping Mongols and Russians destroy more advanced cultures.
Yet the former are considered subhuman shitskins who must forever stay out of Europe lest they ruin it while the latter are pure white muh ancestors from muh homeland and get invited to Eurovision.
>>1355773
No, the common homeland of Europeans and Miiddle Easterners is the Levant, then they separated from there.
>>1356915
Well if you mean that, only very few genes influence those so it's difficult to establish, I know that blue eyes were first found in European hunter gatherers, who however had dark skin and hair, but light eyes also started to appear in Central Asian cultures (proto scytians) along with light hair around the fourth millenium bc.
In Scandiavia and Northen Europe however hunter gatherer populations started to develop light hair aswell and a lighter skill, but most hunter gatherers in the rest of Europe still had dark hair and skin.
When Aegean farmers from Western Anatolia invaded and settled in Europe they brought the genes for light skin, however they mostly har brown eyes and dark hair (mostly, not completely I think).
Finally Central Asian who mixed with Northen European hunter gatherers invaded the rest of Europe which had been settled by the Aegean farmers, creating modern Europeans.
>>1356757
T.Gopnik
>>1356988
>cave men
They werent cave men. There is no evidence that WHG were in europe before 12,000bc. It's most likely they entered a few thousand years earlier than neolithic farmers did replacing paleolithic megafauna hunters who's main food source had gone extinct after the end of the LGM.
>>1356999
This image represents the different admixture in nowadays European and Middle Easterner ethnicities.
Blue: European hunter gatherer (native to europe)
Orange:Anatolian farmer (which was brought during the neolithic)
Aqua blue: Caucasian hunter gatherer (brought by central Asian nomads during the bronze age)
>>1357018
Another similar result from a recent study
"Gunther et al 2015."
>>1357018
I'm surprised at how much Caucasian HG ancestry the Balochi and other Gedrosians have. I assume it's because of those Central Asian nomads, but it's still about as much as actual Caucasians have.
>>1357038
Caucasian hunter gatherers were literal(and I'm using this word correctly here) hunter gatherers from the caucuses mountains, it's incorrect to think of them as Caucasians in the modern sense. The Indo europeans were a mix of European hunter gatherers and caucasian hunter gatherers. It also seems the ancient people of Iran were somewhat related to the CHG so it's not a stretch to assume the ancient people of Gedrosia were as well. So they received twice as much CHG like ancestry as europeans did
>>1355777
Spanish people are not brown, idiot.
>>1357073
Here's a good map that should help visualize things
>>1357075
And Japs brown up quite easily, especially when exposed to Mediterranean levels of sunlight.
Some Japs are very pale, granted.
is the source of the north african in spain known?
if it were the islamic conquest then it should be stronger in the south than north, but the cline seems to be west-east, with a lot in the north west, Galicia.
some prehistoric migration perhaps? it is not like it is hard to cross the strait of Gibraltar.
>>1357189
Strait of gibraltar has strong current since it's a very narrow passage from the Altantic Ocean into the Mediterranean sea. It has many storms and is a quite dangerous passage. Ever wondered why so many refugees die when they try to sail to Spain?
>>1357197
Each side is clearly visible from the other. You can literally row across in a couple hours.
>>1355773
No white people came from somewhere in Northern Turkey then migrated into Europe.
>>1357447
Do YOU have an idea of how fucking big the sea is?
>>1357479
Yes.
>>1357482
It would take several months to reach the other side of the strait and it doubt such a travel would be possible with prehistorical technology.
>>1357487
It's less than 15 km you idiot.
>>1357497
And?
Canoas are slow as fuck, slower than men.
>>1357075
Yes we are :)
>>1357501
I honestly can't tell if you're joking. Is this a dank new /his/ meme I've missed out on?
>>1357004
Hol up, so you be saying we wuzn't cro magnon and shit?
>>1357535
Not really, you're probably a self hating perroflauta or a mestizo who thinks hebis Spanish.
>>1357487
>accepting the assumption that prehistoric peoples had no tech
fuckinlol
>>1357487
this is retarded, as in, you dont know what you are talking about
all the mediterranean islands were populated during prehistory, and reaching Sardinia from Spain and Italy was much harder than crossing the straight of Gibraltar.
>>1356757
Russian keyboardwarriors as always. Russian gopniks are the scum on earth. You are just jealous because we Caucasians get your girls and everything you want.
Кaвкaз Cилa
>>1356996
>while Caucasians were/are mostly known for being violent hillbillies and helping Mongols and Russians destroy more advanced cultures.
Never happened. Caucasians fought against the Russians and the Mongols.
>>1356988
>>1357004
>native europeans (as in cavemen)
indeed upper-paleolithic europeans were very robust, heavy-set with, big bones, and big facial features, they were literally cavemen and lived the primitive HG cave life
many europeans are descendant from them and still exhibit these features
neolithic people differ from caveman (upper-paleolithic) by being gracile (not robust) and having intelligent looking features (especially the face)
>>1357749
cro-magnons still exist. they are upper paleolithic survivors in eurasia and north africa.
plenty of moroccans, maghrebis, spanish, anglos, germans, italians, slavs, balts etc exhibit the robustness of their cro-magnon genes
also, the first Homo Sapiens skulls found in Europe looked like a cross between Khoisan and proto-Mongoloid skulls.
Hell, that Manot 1 skull found looks like nothing we have today.
Our model suggests that during this period of climatic upheaval, the descendants of the hunter-gatherers who survived through the Last Glacial Maximum were largely replaced by a population from another source
The new data show that the mitochondrial DNA of three individuals who lived in present-day Belgium and France before the coldest period in the last Ice Age -- the Last Glacial Maximum -- belonged to haplogroup M. This is remarkable because the M haplogroup is effectively absent in modern Europeans but is extremely common in modern Asian, Australasian, and Native American populations.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/02/160204150602.htm
“Prior to the Druids Western Europe was undoubtedly inhabited by a squat Mongoloid race”
- H.P. Lovecraft
tl;dr upperpaleo europe was mongoloids and austroloids
>>1356757
>>1359556
i'm kind of confused. did the cro-magnons coexist with the haplogroup M groups in europe during the paleolithic and BOTH groups disappeared and were replaced by "West European Hunter Gatherers" ca. 12k BC, or did the haplogroup M people disappear and the Cro-Magnons are the same people as the West European Hunter Gatherers? are the people in that article who arrived at the beginning of the Holocene and caused a population turnover the WHG or the Neolithic farmers?
The original homeland of the white aryan race lies on Thule/atlantis which is located within the hyperborean realm. However, the seeds themselves came from the stars. The vril society pinpointed the exact location to somewhere at orion
>>1360014
Nice depiction of the Finnic Hyper war era empire
>>1359571
The two guys at the center may be the weirdest examples of white people I've ever seen.
>>1355777
>Spanish people are caucasoid but they are often brown.
not at all
>>1360014
>this is what snowniggers actually believe
georgians and armenians don't look very white. and if i'm not mistaken, neither group actually got raped by muzzies as much as you think they would.
>>1357075
We are not, but I get what he said. Atleast he said we are caucasoid.
For example im fucking pale as milk and there are a lot of natives who are blonde/redhead, blue-eyed and with a very white skin.
>>1360298
North Cauasians tend to be whiter than South Caucasians. Chechens are the whitest of the Caucasus.
Yes
out of africa """"""theory"""""" is un-scientific bunk
>>1359753
He's some kind of pseudo-scientist spouting bs, ignore him
>>1360878
i know a lot of HBD people are just closet racists but there's certainly legitimacy to archaeogenetics. although since that guy posted some "Borreby" thing i'd assume he's more on the loony end.
but there's got to be some sort of information out there about whether the hunter gatherers of the Holocene, pre-Neolithic farmer era were related to Cro-Magnon or not surely?
>>1360895
I don't know, you tell me.
>>1360949
By the way, Villabruna roughly corresponds to WHG and that turquoise cluster in the bottom right, or the red dots in this map.
>>1360961
"The most interesting feature is that two different populations existed at the end of the Paleolithic period: the green one (El Mirón) is strictly Magdalenian and vanishes with the Epipaleolithic (at least for this sample, which has major gaps), instead the red one (Villabruna or WHG) was initially less common in Magdalenian and spans beyond its cultural borders into Epigravettian Italy too, however it becomes the only thing around in the Epipaleolithic, suggesting the expansion of a single population in that late period, maybe with the geometric microlithism which precedes in most areas the arrival of Neolithic and may well have expanded from France. "
>>1360895
As far as I know the hunter gatherers and neolithic farmers that entered europe after the LGM were genetically distinct than the people that lived their beforehand. The earlier Gravettians themselves were distinct from their predecessors the Aurignacians, although they probably shared an ancestral group.
>>1360981
This is what I was talking about earlier. The group that vanishes, the Magdelanian group of the late paleolithic were most likely megafauna hunters who were hurt by the change of climate after the LGM. Villabruna meanwhile survived and largely replaced them. My guess is they were originally a small group that had adapted to hunting smaller prey in the south of europe rather than Megafauna so when the climate changed in europe and the megafauna went extinct they could easily adapt. I'm not sure how either groups were related to the Aurignacians(I guess they could be called the "cro-magnons") or Gravettians but I dont think there was genetic continuity.
>>1361015
this is all very interesting, thank you
>>1359753
yes they coexisted
the finns are remnants
cromag is more prevalent in europe these days
>>1361029
I'll probably lurk this thread over the next couple days to answer questions, problem is armchair pseudo scientists will as well.
>>1361041
so the WHG are near eastern infiltrations coming after the LGM around the time of the Holocene, while the Cro-Magnons (or the descendants of the Cro-Magnons perhaps) hung up north and merged with people with Siberian ancestry? is that right? i was looking at the genetics of Finns and it looks like they have a mix of Haplogroup N and I plus some other stuff, with N being Siberian and I being related to Cro-Magnon, if i'm reading this right. i'm new at all of this though.
>>1361062
>I is cromagnon, you got that right. I2 is the older one, originating in southeast europe around LGM, while I1 is the branch that headed north and formed into scandinavians of today.
>>1361057
t. butthurt borreby cromag
>>1355777
We wuz japanese
>>1361099
He was posting again like two days ago.
>>1360014
Can't look at this picture without getting the urge to put on Mammoth Rider by Visigoth.
>>1361062
Haplogroup I has not been found in Upper Paleolithic Europeans. They all have mostly ancient and extinct Y-dna subclades like Haplogroups F, C, CT, IJK. The WHG most likely introduced(or re-introduced) haplogroup I into europe during the Holocene replacing the older haplogroups.
Also the WHG are not from the Near East like the Neolithic farmers. They most likely took refuge in Spain/Italy and North Africa while Europe was facing the worst of the Ice age and then re-expanded and took the place of the Megafauna hunters when it ended.
Cro Magons existed from 45-35,000bc way before the WHG existed, there are no Cro Magnon Y-dna haplogroups still around in europe in large numbers. Haplogroup F or European subclades of Y-dna C like C1 would be from Cro-Magnons, not ydna I. Y-dna I correlates very well with the WHG who existed much much later than the Cro-Magnons. Basically I'm trying to tell you that Haplogroup I is not a Cro Magnon Y-dna signature.
As for the Finns Y-Dna I probably came from the WHG and the early europeans of the area. Haplogroup N existed nearby in northern Russia for a very long time. As far as I know these Haplogroup N carrying people lived side by side with EHG(the eastern version of WHG) and were genetically very similar to them but seemed to have a distinct culture, lived farther north and had distinct Y-dna subclades.(EHG having R1a and R1b and not Haplogroup N) Finland shows the greatest distance from other europeand because they retained the most mesolithic european dna(WHG and EHG DNA) Most european have a lot of DNA from Neolithic farmers and the Yamnaya indo europeans which Finns have less of.
>>1362190
So where did they come from?
Spain?
>>1362332
Spain and the parts of Europe that werent buried under miles of ice. I hope when I tell you this you dont assume that they have anything to do with the spanish because that would be completely untrue, they just lived in the region at one point.
>>1362374
I don-t udnerstand.
You said they arent Cro Magnon but they came from Spain and North Africa whichw ere inhabited by Cro Magnons
>>1362190
LOL
O
L
Y-DNA I is most highly concentrated in Bosnia, and Norway. The Balkans and Scandinavia. The Balkans where the Upper Paleolithic Europeans originated and from where they went North, before R haplogroup-carrying tribes invaded from India.
>>1362384
No, Cro Magnons existed from 45,000 to 35,000bc and their lineage disappeared. WHG make their first appearance around 14000bc and have not been genetically linked to cro magons, they just inhabited the same region at one point.
>>1362399
>Y-DNA I is most highly concentrated in Bosnia, and Norway. The Balkans and Scandinavia.
Uh Ok, everyone knows this. WHG took refuge in the Balkans and spread back north to Scandinavia
>ydna R invaded from India
And this is where I completely ignore you
>>1362405
| WHG make their first appearance around 14000bc and have not been genetically linked to cro magons, they just inhabited the same region at one point.
Where did they come from
>>1362475
Some place in Eurasia surely.
>>1362497
Oh yeah really not vague
>>1362507
Not me, let me give a proper response
>>1362475
Let me first say that if you are looking for definite answers then ancient population genetics is certainly not your field. You will not find anything set in stone. Common theories about what scientists believe change rapidly and there are always a host of alternatives. Of course some theories are backed by a lot more science than others, but much about the paleolithic is unknown and will remain speculative for a long time to come.
Here is a more recent study about the origins of the WHG
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v534/n7606/full/nature17993.html
It seems as if I was not completely correct before, the WHG themselves are a refugee of an earlier european population that disappeared around 37,000bc and reappeared around around 14000bc after the disappearance of the Magdelanian people and the end of the LGM. It also seems there was a very severe genetic bottle neck in the population.
>>1362412
Don't ignore me, hit me with enlightenment. Do you believe that atlantis existed and the R haplogroup carriers descended form it to today's great britain? Please edify me.
>>1362574
Uhhh no, I believe like most Scientists do that it was spread by the Yamnaya . We have Y dna sample of both R1b and R1a side by side from around 6000bc in Samara Russia. Before that we have R1* found in Siberia around 24000bc. It's fairly common knowledge R1 was spread from the steppes to both Europe and India.
>>1362604
They carried the subclade of R1b found in Turkey, not Europe
>>1362639
Steppe hypothesis is considered most plausible, there are no other alternatives that are considered remotely credible at this point. The R1b found in the yamnaya is R1b-L23, it is ancestral to both the R1b found in Europe and turkey
who were the dolne vestonice people related to?
>>1362568
>http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v534/n7606/full/nature17993.html
also the excerpt there makes it sound not like the WHG were people who disappeared at 35k BC and reappeared at 14k BC but that there was some group that disappeared at 35k BC and reappeared at 17k BC, then were supplanted by another population from the Neolithic at 12k BC (which couldnt be the neolithic farmers, i would think, since they didnt appear until 8k with Sesklo???)
The ark landed on mountain Ararat.
So yeah, you are close.
>>1363396
Interesting how close this is to were agriculture first started though
>>1362700
but haplogroup A is 300k years old and present in africans and others
checkm8
>>1356987
yeah, white people turn red when they get under the sun, they should be called "reds"
>>1364295
japanese people have brown skin whether they're in the sun or not. Have you ever seen japanese people before retard? Their skin isn't white. Even when its light it looks nothing like european people's skin and the alleles for their skin color are completely different
>>1356988
Does genetical analysis blend in with these linguistic data?
No the original homeland of whites is Atlantis
t. blonde, tall, light-eyed Norwegian
>>1364339
Actually, their females are quite white but males are typically darker
>>1364715
thats because in asia white skin is highly sought after and admired to so women make a lot of effort to keep their skin light which includes bleaching creams and make up.
>>1364377
in the case of europe not because almost all languages spoken nowadays there are indoeuropean, except Basque, and the finno ugric languages.
Iberia before the romans had celts, like lusitanians and celtiberians, but also had other people who didnt speak celtic languages like the Iberians who were probably distantly related to the basques, the earliest writings in basque we have are from tombs in Aquitaine, so it seems south west france, the region of Toulousse, Bourdeoux and La Rochelle, may have spoken basque languages before the romans.
we dont know the language of the Indus civilization, and we know that in Iran before the indoeuropean expansion they spoke elamite, at least in the south west, which some think is related to dravidian, so Iran and Pakistan is another region in which the indoeuropean expansion replaced the languages spoken there before.
but in the levant, arabia and north africa the languages as far as we know have always been afro asiatic, old egyptian was the ancestor of coptic, semitic akkadians were emmigrating to the Sumerian civilization early in its history, and berbers are the oldest existing population there. there was no replacement there after the neolithic, except for semitic languages replaces other afroasiatic languages, like aramaic replacing akkadian, or arab replacing aramaic, coptic and berber. so, it was all whithin the same group.
>>1365607
but semitic replaced sumerian, elamite, hittite, khoisan, nilitic at varoous times
>>1357075
Yes they are.
>>1361099
Anyone got a screen cap of that thread? I wasn't able to save it at the time and I couldn't find it in the archive. Pls
>>1365993
No, they are not.
>>1360076
There are two types of Chechens. First Chechens like Kadyrov, blonde/ted hair and blue/green eyes. The other one have brown/light brown hair and brown eyes, but really fair skin. Despite the colour of eyes/hair the face structures look very similar.
fascinating
>>1355874
Only in US "caucasian" means "white"
In other language/cultures people just say "european"
This creates some funny translation errors once in a while
