Which sect of Christianity should I convert to?
>tell me what to believe
Believe that you are what you are, a huge faggot who begs for others to give him meaning
>>1350570
It doesn't matter what people on this earth claim, or which religion they align themselves with. It matters whether God has written their names in the Book of Life.
Gnosticism
Just read the New law and make your own opinion. Don't let anyone tell you what you should think about it.
>>1350579
Why? I'm in engaging in a healthy Socratic dialogue right now to determine the most logical course of action :^)
>>1350585
How do you get into that
>>1350605
God writes His laws upon our hearts and our minds, and as Christians our lives are to be lived in obedience to the Gospel.
>>1350570
>christianity
First off, Christ obviously only founded one kind of Christianity, not a million. So you can rule out the idea that more than one is valid.
Secondly, you can rule out any that didn't exist continuously since Christ, since he said the gates of hell would not prevail against his church--if it disappeared for over a thousand years, then the gates of hell prevailed against it.
Next you can rule out Latinism. The Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox have been separated for like 1,500 years, and yet he still have no differences than a Christological formula (both versions of which are valid); whereas the schism with the Catholics was only a thousand years ago, and yet they've grown progressively different from both of us.
>>1350636
I was thinking of joining my anglican church
>>1350685
Do you think the Anglican Church is the one Christ founded?
>>1350698
No I guess not
I don't think my city has an eastern orthodox church
>>1350699
Oriental Orthodox works too.
If neither, then send an email to the nearest parish you can find and ask for guidance. They might set up a mission in your area
>>1350699
You're really going to pick a branch of faith based on what one idiot says on 4chan, excellent.
>>1350704
What truthful rebuke did you just righteously utter of me, you worthiest of souls? I’ll have you know I failed God to the deepest of the pit in my class of worldly sinners, and I’ve been involved in numerous shameful transgressions on God's forgiveness, and I have over 300 confirmed faults. I am depraved in wicked thoughts and I’m the top coveter in the entire legions of the damned. I am nothing to thee but just another Satan. I will praise you to heaven and back with the most contrite of hearts the likes of which has been seen all too often from the sinner, mark my unworthy lips. You think you can serve away with your words of wisdom to me over the Internet? God bless, brother. As we speak I am contacting my holy communion of saints across heaven and your love is being traced right now so you better prepare for the Theosis, militant. The mercy that sustains the shining little thing you call your soul. You’re God's gift, kid. I can be all things at all times to all men, and I can bow to you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just while kissing your hand. Not only am I extensively corrupted by unnameable vileness, but I have betrayed to the entire covenant of the Orthodox Body of Christ, and I will plead her to her full benevolence to sanctify your virtuous spirit off the face of the lie, you little star. If only you could have known what holy gratitude your little “meek” rebuke was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have blessed your benign tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re reaping the harvest, you God fearing joy. I will weep thanks all over you and you will drown in it. You've found life, kiddo.
>>1350707
That's nice, but remember you're roleplaying as a 'man of god' on an imageboard notorious for its moral degeneracy. On a par with the most pathetic of r9kers to be honest.
>>1350707
kek
>>1350707
Constantine, how often do you just turn off your trip and just shitpost with the rest of us? Surely you have to let your hair down once in a while.
>>1350704
He seems well spoken
>>1350570
Islam
>>1350716
You're here too faggot
What's that say about you
Don't judge people for doing something you are doing you stupid cunt
>>1350707
Saved
>>1350602
Not religion...
>>1350570
>counter revolutionary religion
>>1350938
Your opinion
>>1350942
Religions are not logical.
This is something they admit themselves.
>>1350940
What do you mean
>>1350570
Pelagian or Martinist.
Islam
>>1350570
Anime
>>1350704
Not him but you gotta accept that having the queen as head of your church makes no sense. I'm not protestant, but I can respect the claim of some other protestant sects who claim to be following christianity like it wasbin the begining. For anglicans that claim makes no sense.
>>1350707
I don't always like you Constantine, but today you made me smile.
>>1350570
to the one true church, the Roman Catholic church... or the Orthodox, those guys are pretty cool
>>1350570
Does it matter? Go to a church that seems the most engaging.
>>1350570
Celtic paganism
Lutheranism
Jesus Christ was a Lutheran
non-Lutherans go to Hell
>>1350602
>logical choice
>religion
choose one.
And before anyone accuses me of being edgy, religion is inherently illogical, it's about feelings not numbers, and it's completely fine that way.
So choose what sect makes you feel best.
>>1352000
You're right it's illogical and irrational, but it's not about "feels"
It's about truth
>>1352000
Do you think there's life on another planet, somewhere?
>>1350685
>I was thinking of joining my anglican church
Why would you consider joining a church that Henry VIII founded to get a divorce?
>>1350570
Yeshua probably doesn't care.
He just wanted Rome to get its comeuppance from God.
It did.
>>1351028
Do you perhaps mean the Catholic Church?
>kyaa, God is filling me with his Holy Spirit
>tfw want to join a religion but I realised I don't know what I want from a religion
>>1352235
Most people want acceptance, a sense of belonging, and to be appreciated for their efforts or talents.
Join a group, club, or society, probably.
>>1352298
I'm a member of clubs yet I have feelings of faith that I haven't worked out yet.
>>1352136
I think that it is probable.
>>1352311
Ask your self what you want, maybe go through some comparisons to determine your preferred activities and sensations.
Live life experiences and believe whatever you find most convincing, that's all we can do.
>>1352235
Truth?
>>1352325
Yes and no, maybe.
>>1352325
>Truth
>>1352317
Good.
How about multiverse theory?
And what do you think of the big bang?
>>1352413
Pilate plz go
>>1352228
Is this a depiction of the virgin birth? Seems extremely sensualized.
>>1352521
Literally does not know Jesus is The Truth.
You are so lost, honey.
You need a man in your life. Seriously.
>>1352500
Unscientific nonsense
>>1351806
But the Catholic Church is not the true Church.
The one where you and your friends are secretly gnostic but you all still attend vanilla church services on Sundays and do a bunch of stuff for charity.
>>1352005
>it's illogical
>it's about truth
Sorry what?
>>1352840
They're animals. They have no idea what the invisible church is. They have to see idols, rub prayer beads, smell candles, hear Latin, eat crackers, and drink juice and try to worship God in the flesh.
>>1352878
And all you have to do to receive God's grace is just say you believe?
Sounds pretty good too. I'm glad that you never have to actually help and serve those around you. Being a selfish cunt and indulging in pride must be all kinds of enlightening.
Read Karl Barth
>>1352897
No, all you have to do is regain the Holy Spirit that Adam lost the very day he sinned, disobeyed, disbelieved, and died.
You're dead right now and don't even know it.
>>1352919
Man, all I see is you falling for a cult of personality behind a contemporary minister that is no more connected to the living church than you. Have fun with your Jesus jams and inability to recognize the hole you've dug yourself into by dismissing the teaching of Christ and his Apostles.
>>1352824
What do you propose as an alternative explanation for the Big Bang then?
>>1350570
First off ask yourself why Christianity over any other faith.
>>1350570
Find whoever told you that joining a sect was important and beat the living dogshit out of him.
>>1353210
Indeed, Christ did not found any sect of Christianity, he founded Christianity as unified, and Orthodox. Sects came later and none of them come from Christ.
>>1353222
Did Jesus originally preach in Latin or Greek?
>>1353222
t. cult sect member
>>1353275
He preached in Aramaic, presumably
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0qLQWwc92Q
>>1353275
Are you asking or testing the bimbo?
>>1353296
A cult of Christ, yes. A sect of Christianity, no. Christ did not found sects of Christianity, he founded one Church. Sects appeared later.
>>1353297
Do you study the original Aramaic transcriptions?
>>1353311
No, only Christians who use Aramaic Scripture today are Syriac Orthodox, afaik.
>>1353307
No. Your cult has nothing to do with Jesus. You're running your own thing. Your own way. Just like Rome.
Exactly like Rome.
You are in a very big cult. Catholics are in a much bigger cult. The two cults are virtually indistinguishable.
>>1350570
>yet another religion shopping thread
when will this shit stop?
>>1353320
No, you are like Rome, both of you invented versions of Christianity that have no continuous existence. If your version of Christianity did not exist continuously since Christ, then it is wrong and invented by man, full stop.
>>1350570
You should not.
>>1353334
You can't even phrase reality properly.
Being a born again Christian dates back to the Resurrection, as Jesus taught Nicodemus.
Your cult sprang off of Mystery Babylon in 1066 for your own cult's reasons.
You're just as lost as they are. You two are the two legs of Rome, east and west. And both legs are going to be destroyed by Jesus.
>>1353317
Who translated Jesus' preaching then?
CONSTANTINE, END THIS CONTROVERSY ONCE AND FOR ALL.
Are you male or female?
Are you a transvestite?
Why do you use the same trip code as a known transvestite?
>>1353340
Your dogmas don't date continuously back to Christ, no. You aren't a born again Christian, either, since your baptism is not valid, and you must have a valid baptism to be born again.
Sorry, but I'm not going to pull any punches on your heresy as long as you insult the True Church.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiemtHphY3w
>>1353348
He doesnt talk about his personal life anymore.
Constantine was a guy who posted on lit and complained about his girlfriend. The whole girl/tranny thing started because a couple of posters for awhile would spam his thread with waifu posts which for awhile actually had the positive effect of him temporarily swallowing his pride and ditching the trip
>>1353348
She gave the impression she was a man and even uses a male trip name because she wants to be left alone, I don't know why you guys keep bugging her.
>>1353348
I don't know what transvestite you're talking about, I'm the only one who has ever used this trip. I'm not a transsexual, or a transvestite, or anything like that.
I privately talked with someone on email about myself a little bit because they seemed decent enough, unfortunately they had to betray my trust and make me into some hot topic on /his/. I left for a long time, so it would blow over. It did, and I don't see why it can't remain that way.
>>1353387
Why would an orthodox person use a trip code from a known tranny? Sure you want people to think you're a guy, why not just use "John"? Why specifically this trip code from another user? I just find it, fishy.
>>1350570
I'm an atheist but I'm convinced that IF there is a chosen people, it's the Mormons.
>>1353406
And if he/she really wanted people to stop asking why not just come out in the open? All this mystery only makes people even more curious.
>>1353355
>since your baptism is not valid,
Holy fuck. A new layer of rock stupidity has been discovered.
Your cult taught you that water washes away sin. It does not.
Your cult taught you that "holy chrism" lets in the Holy Spirit. It does not.
You do not know you are saved because you are not saved.
>>1353406
>>1353422
Let me make something clear to you: there was never a tranny who used this trip. That's a running joke, because it started getting around here that I was a woman and of course there aren't any on the internet, so I was labelled as a tranny. I never said I was a woman on these boards, I don't want attention as a woman, all I want to just post and converse. If I start clearing things up, it wouldn't put the matter to rest, it would make it impossible for me to have regular discussions on this board without being hassled.
>>1353401
Please leave again.
Seriously.
You picked up a guy on 4chan. You're too stupid to live.
>>1353407
That's why we call atheists fools.
You think they're chosen because they're nice.
>>1353434
Why do you feel the need to use a trip when you post?
>>1353424
Mark translated Peter's telling into Greek, Luke translated to Greek, John did as well. Matthew was originally in either Hebrew or Aramaic, not sure who wrote the Greek version.
>>1353434
YOU'RE A LITERAL ATTENTION WHORE
>>1353429
John 3:-3-5
>>1353444
Wrong as usual.
John Mark, Luke and John WROTE in Greek, Matthew wrote in HEBREW so NOBODY could write a GREEK MATTHEW.
>>1353443
Helps posters with questions recognize me easily.
>>1353439
They aren't just nice they are successful at literally everything they do. They also hold more traditional values without being trashy bible beaters.
>>1353449
Yes, they wrote in Greek, but in doing so they were translating the original Aramaic, not making up the sayings.
A Greek Matthew means a Greek translation of the Gospel of Matthew.
>>1353448
>John 3:-3-5
I cited Nicodemus above, you fucking twit.
Being born in water means YOU WERE BORN IN WATER FROM YOUR MOTHER AT BIRTH. HENCE NICODEMUS ASKING IF HE SHOULD CRAWL BACK UP HIS MOTHER'S VAGINA.
Being born in the Spirit means YOU'RE BORN IN THE SPIRIT.
>>1353451
A literal attention whore with WRONG answers.
>>1353453
Yeah, 'cause they're based off the Book of Mormon, not the bible.
Read the CES letter if you want to know all about their fraudulent nonsense.
>>1353451
How does that help them though? Doesn't that just encourage people to accept arguments based on authority at best or reject them by association at worst.
>>1353457
Holy fuck. You are too stupid to live. Please die.
>>1353456
Well, yeah.
>>1353468
It's religion, it's all fraudulent nonsense.
I really can't wrap my head around this idea that one religion is more or less legitimate than another.
>>1350570
waldensian :^)
>>1353451
constantine, how do you explain the russian church being always ruled by the government and the kgb?
>>1353824
Its all good as they dont actually change dogma.
>>1350570
Easy, if your main heritage us from Western Europe or Poland, choose Catholic. If it's eastern European, Slav, or Greek, choose Orthodox. If you're some flavor of mud, pick whichever one is closest to your ancestral clay. Do NOT fall for the protestant meme; the older churches, especially the Roman Catholic Church, incorporated a lot of ancient traditions and customs and truly preserved cultural heritage that would have died out otherwise.
>>1353824
>how do you explain baseless memes propagated by people like Soros
I'm a severe depression survivor. Atheist convert. Choose Catholicism. Trust me.Spirituality,art, Latin Mass, Cultural Contributions, Societal Contributions, etc. are what make it so glorious. Trust me, what you find in the Catholic Church will be unmatched
>>1354221
can you please elaborate, constantine.
>>1350570
Orthodoxy.
Least they still follow the Bible when it comes to usury rules. Whereas the western Christians would rather make money than follow God.
>>1354451
I mean the idea that the Russian Church is run by (former) KGB agents has ZERO foundations or evidence apart from one man who claimed to have seen "secret documents" showing the Patriarch was a KGB agent, without any physical evidence or copies of such documents--compared to how many people who claimed to have seen "secret documents" at the Vatican, this is hardly credible.
Did the communists every try to take over the Church? Of course, why wouldn't they? In fact, they created a "Renovated" Orthodox Church, and confiscated virtually all of the Russian Orthodox parishes for this new Church, which allow things like priests and bishops to get divorced and remarried. Many clergy did defect, those who refused to recognize the new Church were imprisoned. But this Church did not catch on, the Russian people who were still religious did not attend it and knew it was bogus; Stalin, during WWII, knew he needed the Church to instill the people with the spirit to fight, so he legalized the original Church, released the clergy, and returned the parishes; those clergy who had defected, were required by the newly released clergy to do the penance of apostates if they wanted to return to the Church. After Stalin died, persecution resumed, to different degrees at different times, but ultimately, the communist effort to take over the Church failed.
Could they have used KBG agents as plants to make them bishops and take over? Maybe, but there is no evidence to suggest this. Most bishops are picked from monks, which would mean KGB agents would have to become monks and gain enough standing and respect to be made bishops--it's very unlikely, of course it is conceivable, but there is no evidence.
>>1353459
“This means that we go down into the water full of sins and foulness, and we come up bearing fruit in our hearts, fear and hope in Jesus and in the Spirit.”-Epistle of Barnabas
>>1353459
They were obliged,” he answered, “to ascend through water in order that they might be made alive; for, unless they laid aside the deadness of their life, they could not in any other way enter into the kingdom of God. … For,” he continued, “before a man bears the name of the Son of God he is dead; but when he receives the seal he lays aside his deadness, and obtains life. The seal, then, is the water: they descend into the water dead, and they arise alive. And to them, accordingly, was this seal preached, and they made use of it that they might enter into the kingdom of God.” (Shepherd of Hermas)
>>1354476
This is a good homily (sermon) on usury for Orthodox Christians in the West, who often have to cope with no other retirenment options: http://holytrinity-lansing.org/index.php/news/102/109/The-Sin-We-Stopped-Feeling-Sorry-For/d,betterDetails.htm
>>1353459
Justin Martyr, First Apology-“I will also relate the manner in which we dedicated ourselves to God when we had been made new through Christ; lest, if we omit this, we seem to be unfair in the explanation we are making. As many as are persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, are instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we praying and fasting with them. They then are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. . . . The reason for this we have received from the Apostles.” (Chapter 61)
>>1353459
Clement of Alexandria-For it is said, “Put on him the best robe,” which was his the moment he obtained baptism. I mean the glory of baptism, the remission of sins, and the communication of the other blessings, which he obtained immediately he had touched the font. (Fragments, Parable of the Prodigal Son)
>>1353459
Tertullian, On Baptism-“Happy is the sacrament of our water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free, [and admitted] into eternal life! … But we, little fishes, after the example of our ΙΧΘΥΣ Jesus Christ, are born in water, nor have we safety in any other way than by permanently abiding in [that] water.” (chapter 1)
>>1353459
"Born from water" is not any Hebrew idiom for natural birth, and Christ's baptism is follow by the Holy Spirit. Your exegesis has zero basis. The soundest form of exegesis is using Scripture to interpret Scripture, but you are simply providing exegetical acrobatics...not even that, exegetical aerobics.
As a deist, I wish I could believe in this.
>>1354562
Why can't you?
>>1354568
There's no compelling evidence to suggest this God is any more real than any other. I'm more inclined to believe it's all the same.
>>1354579
Here is a pastebin, there is an argument here for the historicity of the Resurrection. It might not change your mind, but it could help you realize there is some evidence: http://pastebin.com/bN1ujq2x
All of the Christians on 4chan are roleplaying, right? With all of the evidence accumulated in the sciences, how is there any room for a personal god? I don't want to say it's 2016, but it's 2016. Get with the times, lads.
>>1354614
There's a meme in society of some kind of entrepreneurial post-capitalist industrial-scientific "productivity" thing, and they are expressing the meme because they are demi-conscious memebuoys floating on a slurry sea of currents you can only see if you zoom out
It's exhausting even trying to give an answer to this question. You need to like phenomenologically bracket every single word and write a book explaining that they aren't even people. They aren't even conscious. They aren't even having "opinions". STEM people are like robots with human skin stretched over them. To say "they are dismissive of the humanities" is implicitly to admit I think there's a "they". STEM people don't even fucking exist. They are a statistical gaseous nebula of random particles wafting across continents and periodically expressing junk they picked up along the way. Why would you even talk to them?
Talking to a STEMfag is literally like being some kind of Buddha, ascending reality, then coming back down and talking to bees who were dudes in past lives. I'm sure these bee niggas can be saved or whatever, but let's just wait until they're back in human form. Don't walk around going "BEES, STOP BUZZING, PUT DOWN THAT POLLEN, LISTEN TO ME ABOUT HOW EVERY CONCEPTUAL CATEGORY YOU HAVE FOR EVEN THINKING OF THINGS WAS SHAPED FOR YOU BY AN UNCONSCIOUS SLUDGE OF MEMETIC POLYALLOY THAT FLOWS IN PREDICTABLE CURRENTS FROM YEAR TO YEAR THROUGH THE HIVE IN WHICH YOU WERE CONCEIVED"
>>1354614
>if you presume pure materialism, how is there any room for anything else?
>>1354614
*tips fedora*
>>1354588
your evidence is an argument, an why would they lie? and why would they die for a lie?
anyone who knows anything about cults would dismiss these arguments instantly, and that isnt even entering into the question of what the apostles actually believed
>>1354642
What evidence is there for anything else?
>>1354671
Cult leaders who lie almost always do so for sexual or monetary gain, which the Apostles certainly did not have. We're talking about eleven leaders who were *skeptics* at first, and later were willing to be ostracized and die for their beliefs, and not one of them recanted. So their being delusion is highly unlikely, and their being frauds for material gain is equally unlikely.
>>1354676
You have a spiritual sense as well, it just needs to be developed.
>>1354687
My erection needs to be developed. It's flaccid now
>>1354679
That is a very narrow understanding of a cult, a cult is any small charismatic religious sect.
Second we have no way of knowing for sure if Jesus had any character flaws that were hidden or forgotten latter on
3rd regardless of his character his death would have effected them much like in a modern cult, that is many would cling even tighter to their faith rather than abandon it.
>>1354700
>that is many would cling even tighter to their faith rather than abandon it.
No, it disillusioned them, like many Messianic followings where the leader failed to deliver. Women were the first to find the empty tomb, and of course the Apostles scoffed.
>>1354707
that only holds if you blindly accept the narrative presented by the bible, ignoring the possibility that events could have been embellished or altered
>>1354486
thanks a lot.
>>1354712
Yes, yes, and Jesus might have been a transsexual Chinese hairdresser preaching against Samaritan horse fish racing.
It's one thing to be dubious of the Gospel accounts, especially the miracles, it's quite another to propose an alternative narrative backed with zero evidence or reasoning.
>>1354720
No problem...comrade.
>>1354721
Not really, historians have doubts like that about documents all the time. expecting someone with an agenda like winning converts cannot be trusted to give a perfectly accurate account.
But even if I do as you suggested, the narrative reads much like I suggested, after a short period of fear and doubt, some of his close followers claim either to have had visions, or seen him risen. From there the cult becomes even stronger than it was during Jesus's lifetime, albeit altered in character
>>1354729
Right, but it's not like they were in denial about his death of not being the Messiah. Which isn't crazy, since there were a TON of Messianic movements, and if the leader died or failed, they almost never continued (except for one in the Middle Ages among Jews, which lasted a few hundred years). When Bar Kokhba failed, for instance, his movement didn't keep on believing he was the Messiah, they just felt bummed out (to say the very least) and disheartened.
So your hypothesis based on what might be probably in a cult (which doesn't have any basis that I know of, but let's assume it does), wouldn't apply commonly here, to Messianic movements.
>>1354687
Elaborate.
>>1354736
That certainly is not the consensus of the academic community, that the pattern is not universal does not apply, and as a completely non magical explanation it is privileged over a supernatural explanation.
That isn't even going into problems with the resurrection narrative itself
>>1354741
I mean that you can *see* (not with your eyes, but with your spiritual sense, which is just as vivid) God directly. This controversy is what Saint Gregory Palamas became so famous for.
Just to interject on the cult leader thing, we have modern examples of cult leaders being executed where some of their followers still insist that the guy was God (the Waco guys). It's not even remotely implausible Jesus' story could play out the same way.
Honestly, it's one of those things I wish modern day theists would look more closely at. We have several modern examples of cults where people were convinced to do some really crazy shit, an even held to their beliefs well past any possibility of them being true. Yeah, I'm sure you believe your guy is different, and that's fine, but you should at least look at these groups to understand why some of these arguments on your part aren't that great.
>>1354687
What evidence do you have that you're not just deluding yourself by "developing" this sense?
>>1354751
Other religions have it too, and it serves the same function of proving them right
>>1354747
Doesn't really go with the narrative, which pains the Apostles as skeptics (in fact, Apostles, the leaders of the new religion, are painted negatively several times, unlikely if it weren't true, since early Christians wouldn't take kindly to slander or libel of the Apostles).
Furthermore, you're using standard cults as your guide, which don't follow the same pattern as ancient Messianic movements..
>>1354751
Couldn't you say the same about the physical senses? Whose to say they aren't lying faculties?
>>1354759
*Who's
Do you believe in the Apostle's Creed? The Nicene Creed?
Read the Scriptures, keeping in mind proper context for everything. Read commentaries from every branch, Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant.
Pray that the Spirit guide you to the one you're supposed to "join".
Keep in mind, it's all the same at it's basic level, all Christians believe the same message that Christ came, lived, died for the remission of sins and was raised from the dead three days later.
Just avoid heresies like Gnosticism (are they still around?), Mormonism, Jehovah's Witness, ect.
>>1350570
Istanbul Orthodox Church.
>>1354754
It really doesn't matter what form this delusion takes, what proof do you have that it's not a delusion?
>>1354756
How are you such a fucking master at missing the point? The cultural particulars are nil. The fact is that you hinge on the "implausibility" of people continuing to believe some dude was the messiah after he was executed, or how it's unlikely Christians would do crazy shit over a bogus story, when that's demonstrably not the case. The narrative is irrelevant, of course they'd write a narrative designed to appear credible, because we can assume they weren't idiots.
>>1354759
There's no reason to assume they're lying, as there's physical evidence right in front of us and they don't need to be developed. But we have all kinds of evidence of people cultivating delusionary beliefs, and absolutely no evidence of anything spiritual.
What kind of truth requires effort on the part of a skeptical party to convince them?
>>1354756
That is all very dubious, very few scholars label Jesus's group as not being a cult.
Nor is a burst of panic and doubt that odd, a crisis of faith often results in an even stronger faith after it passes.
Furthermore their initial skepticism makes the account far more believable, since it fits the story. So the doubters in teh narrative serve the purpose of reaffirming the conclusion. Similar to the doubting Thomas story which serves to shame skepticism
>>1354766
>The narrative is irrelevant, of course they'd write a narrative designed to appear credible, because we can assume they weren't idiots.
So you're suggesting all of the Apostles had hallucinations, right?
>>1354774
>very few scholars label Jesus's group as not being a cult.
This is neither here nor there, since "cult" is just a buzzword. The question is whether it should be categorized with cults in general, or Messianic movements, and the latter makes more sense regardless of whether or not you see them as a subset of cults.
>>1354798
>So you're suggesting all of the Apostles had hallucinations, right?
Not necessarily, its a possibility but there was an esoteric Jewish tradition that they may have had access to, which would have provided them (and possibly Paul) with spiritual experiences.
On the other hand the earliest copies of Mark (the earliest gospel) include no encounters with the risen Jesus, just a mysterious young man announcing that he was risen.
All of these are just possibles, but there is no reason, besides faith to simply accept the biblical accounts as unaltered fact.
And of course from the historical method's perspective, faith does not prove anything
>>1354798
>So you're suggesting all of the Apostles had hallucinations, right?
Possibly. We've seen that groups can reinforce irrational beliefs, this was observed with the Aum Shinrikyo, where the follows would sincerely attest to miracles on the behalf of their leader.
>>1350570
If the answer is yes, follow the greentext, if not, continue with the questions.
Was Jesus only spirit?
>Docetism
Was Jesus only man?
>Adoptionism
Is Jesus lesser than God?
>Arianism
Is Jesus two separate natures (divine and human) in two separate personas? human?
>Nestorianism (Church of the East)
Is Jesus two separate natures, but the divine nature of him completely overwhelms the human part?
>Eutychianism
Is Jesus one single nature, that's equally composed of his divine and human parts?
>Miaphysitism (Oriental Orthodox Church)
Is Jesus two separate natures in one single persona?
Chalcedoneanism (not sure if the word exists)
Now we start with the relevant ones. All of these churches are Chalcedonean, meaning that they ratify the council of Chalcedon.
Is the Roman Pope infallible when it comes to matters of faith?
>Catholic Chruch
Are you retarded?
>Protestantism
Are you still here?
>Eastern Orthodox Church
This is as comprehensive a list as I can make. There's a few other sects but they're less important, and different churches within all those comunions, but that's a little more complex. There's also a bazillion Protestant denominations, but you aren't seriously considering that, are you?
>>1354854
>human?
>Catholic Chruch
>comunions
I guess today isn't my day.
>>1354854
beautiful
>>1350570
the one that teaches about gods grace and the finished works of jesus Christ
>>1354588
Im in a similar boat and have seen the same kind of arguments made by other groups the only real difference is that their moral boundaries and confines seeming more foreign which is more a product of a christian heritage than anything definitive.
None of them really become unique unless you hold one groups axioms as your own.
Here is a work that might interest you
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/When_Prophecy_Fails
>>1352767
No it's berninis ecstasy of St Theresa
>>1351982
Jesus would obviously have been a member of the former Dutch state church. Non-calvinists can go to wherever you're predestined to go.
>>1355952
Damned Continentals. The Westminster Standards are the most beautiful and elegant statement of Reformed doctrine that have ever been produced.
>>1350598
This. If you're going to do it go all the way.
The only correction section, Catholicism.
>>1359135
Apologize to I gays now.
Converting should on the basis of faith, not what /pol/'s cool kids' club are up to.
>>1359141
i couldnt give a shit about what gays do. I'm catholic for myself
>>1350570
Just read the word of God, the word of Jesus. Anything not understood, ask for understanding and guidance from a sincere, believing heart and watch Him go to work. Can't stress how amazing t his really is.
Especially when coming from a world that's problem solving revolves around arrogance, pride, and empty rewards.
>2016
>Being religious
>>1350570
So, I'm going to de-rail this thread a little, sorry.
What the fuck is up with American baptists? I have Hansen's disease, more commonly known as leprosy. Without fail, any time someone from a baptist denomination finds out (and I live in a small town, so people find out fast), the first thing out of their mouth is
>Can I touch you?
I mean, I get it, Jesus healed lepers. Woop. You ain't Jesus, and touching me isn't going to do shit. Why do they keep asking? I have had people bang on my door, to find out they traveled from another town because their buddy where I lived told them we have a real live leper and they wanted to touch me.
>>1359170
Leprosy is a thing they only know about from the Bible, so they fixate on it. They're like that with Jews too.
>>1359170
>What the fuck is up with American baptists?
You realize there are about 33 million Baptists in the United States, and they range from just about every single region to every single culture and socioeconomic group in the country? And that doesn't include nondenominational evangelicals, who are just Baptists in denial anyway? Which Baptists are you talking about, specifically?
>>1359157
>Which ever denomination you can put all of your faith in, is the section of christianity for you.
So basically it's choosing what to believe? This is just you fooling yourself.
>>1359188
Beats me, I'm not particularly religious or up on the divisions between baptist groups. But something like 90+% of the people who randomly ask to touch me seem to come from some baptist church.
>>1350598
>le edgy 'god is evil' sect xDDD
sure is reddit in here
>>1359193
>So basically it's choosing what to believe?
Um, literally every belief functions this way. Nobody believes something they did not choose to believe.
