I work at a consulting firm that assists manufactures in designing machined to make their products. We take the end product, brake it down into components and figure out how to make each part than make the tools to make that part. Than make tools to turn parts into products. It could be biscuits, power line insulators or carburettors, we do anything.
In a slow period a few weeks ago all us tech types met up in the conference room and the boss gave us a task.
Build HMS Victory at a green field site. No legacy tools or equipment. Just wood, wool, pitch, hemp, iron ore, copper ore, lead and tin.
He than handed us the ships guide book, the RN Handbook of Seamanship and the full set of plans.
We broke the ship down into parts. Sails, spars, masts, rigging, details, minor hull and major hull.
We than took each part and figured out how it was made then what tools it took.
We than worked on making the tools and so on down to what could be made with hands,teeth and fire alone.
We failed.
At every turn we found that we needed blacksmith tongs.
You can't make tongs without tongs.
You can manipulate the bloom with green sticks and hammer it with a rock but you can't punch the hole for the rivet without tongs.
Making tongs by casting copper can't work either. Copper conducts heat too well and softens before you can start hammering the bloom.
We went into the workshop and started mucking about with iron.
We managed to make an iron bar with just charcoal, iron ore and two rocks.
We bent it into a set of BBQ tongs but when it cooled it was brittle. We tried again with six different styles of tempering and the one piece tongs where either too brittle and snapped or too inflexible to be used.
Another job making a factory to make LED lights came I and the Victory project was shelved.
There is a legend that the first tongs where given to man by the gods. I'm sort of believing that.
>>1346809
did you try punching the hole with a pump/cord drill?
>>1346809
kek
>We were idiots, so the gods must have given mankind tongs.
>>1346809
>your boss makes you build a 19th century warship
Your boss is based as fuck.
>but you can't punch the hole for the rivet without tongs.
yes you can. and even if you couldn't you wouldn't even need to.
>>1346809
Such a cool job. Kudos for you
Also, try to talk with a real blacksmith. Maybe he can give you an idea
>>1346809
Fascinating.
The legends also say that the gods taught men language and writing.
I've always found it amazing that ancient tongues such as Sanskrit and Latin, and reconstructed PIE, are incredibly more complex than their "descendants", when it should be the other way around, starting more simple and primitive and developing complexity...
>>1346809
use two sticks for temporary tongs retards
>>1348749
Isn't this strange?
>>1346809
>uses the wrong break
>>1348812
Nope. Must receive tool from gods, or no can build.
>>1348812
Ever tried to hold a half inch long rivet with two green sticks?
You are a moron.
>>1346809
Make the handle of the tongs out of wood and the business end out of metal.
OP you've been had by somebody trying to push a religious agenda on you, or something. There's evidence of African blacksmiths in the 1800s using wood tongs to work iron.
http://www.anvilfire.com/AnvilCAM-II/index.php?video=zulu_blacksmiths
>The engraving above was published in the British illustrated news magazine The Graphic February 23, 1879 a weekly publication printed (1869 - 1932).
>Between the film and the illustration there are some minor differences several of which may be attributed to artistic license in the engraving. However, the differences are few considering the 58 years time difference. One is an artists representation of Zulu village life in the 1870's and the other a film of actual village life in 1932
>In the film the blacksmith is holding the work with wooden tweezer type tongs. In an iron poor society that was also nomadic these make a lot of sense as they are easily replaceable with local materials. In the engraving iron tongs are being used. However, in the engraving it also appears that the smith in the foreground is handling a bloom (fresh iron ingot). These smiths may be smelting and refining iron, not just making spear points.
>In the film there is a moment when another pit forge (and possibly a third) is seen in the background. Both shown have shield walls or a "fire back". This is difficult to discern in the engraving but we know from other primitive pit forges that the bellows and the operator need protection from the heat.
>While the smiths in the film are being prompted (possibly directed) while being filmed it seems obvious that these men are actual blacksmiths. The fellow operating the wineskins is well practiced and at ease, he stops pumping at exactly the right time, the striker with the large stone hammer hits exactly where he is supposed and the smith does not flinch.
>>1348749
>ancient tongues such as Sanskrit and Latin, and reconstructed PIE, are incredibly more complex than their "descendants"
That's not true. I mean, I don't know anything about Sanskrit, but Latin is simpler than any of the modern Romance languages. And English is more complex than any of them.
>>1346809
The HMS Victory required an entire nation's economy in a millennia-old civilization. Of COURSE you're not going to be able to do that "from scratch."
>>1353020
Latin has five declensions and seven grammatical cases. Proto-Indo-European has eight cases for singular, six cases for plural and three for the dual number, which has disappeared from the majority of modern Indo-European languages, with the exception of Slovenian IIRC.
English doesn't even differentiate between you (singular) and you (plural).
You're confusing complexity with vocabulary.
>>1353100
>English doesn't even differentiate between you (singular) and you (plural).
dialects of it do yes
>ye
>yiz
>>1353100
y'all
>>1353716
>y'all :^)
>>1353100
That's just the thing. We don't need complex differences with singular or plural you because context (vocabulary) explains it in every case.
>>1353046
The project is an intellectual exercise to get us out of the automation rut.
Making a toaster on a semi automated production line with legacy tooling and process takes less thought than building a ship.
Taking the process back to a green field site encouraged us up think of the construction not as handing the drawings to a craftsman but creating the craftsmen as well.
>>1346809
Why didn't you try something like a hardy holder? Or simply tying the two pieces of iron together with hempen string as a temporary measure? If you put the tie way back you could have avoided burning the string.
>>1354376
>english has no formal "you", just casual nsa sex "you"
Wrong, English /only/ has a formal "you". It used to have a casual version, "thou", but it died out for unknown reasons.
>>1348749
Who /hyperborean/ here?
