I have been 'struggling', one might say, with religion the past year or two. I'm 18 years old, and somewhat intellectual (for the average 18-20 year old), so I suppose this is normal. I have always been fascinated by Celtic beliefs and they have resonated with me. I went from paganism, to Christianity, and then back again. The thing is, I naturally SENSE the divine (I think everyone does). I believe that in nature, there exists a spirit that is sacred. I can't, however, be sure that this divine spirit exists BEYOND reality/the universe. There is no logical or even intuitive reason for me to think so, because all the ways I sense the divine are through things that exist in reality.
Does anyone else literally sense the divine spirit of nature and the holy thread that connects everything in existence? It's so subtle but having realized it is so beautiful...
Get ready to get ridiculed by autists whose idea of the sublime is free donut day
> I believe that in nature, there exists a spirit that is sacred.
Why? What argument or evidence overcame your rational skepticism?
Contemporary religion is all about how you (not others) "connect" with your environment and find inner peace. No religion is more correct or incorrect than another.
Basically, if it works for you, keep at it. People might call you autistic though, but whatever.
>>1337690
>What argument or evidence
I plainly stated that I sense the spirit, as in it's an intuitive thing, and not something to be rationally analyzed.
You should never struggle with religion, or try to hard to find a spiritual hugbox. There's no rush and you end up wasting your time with crap on par with wicca, just do some homework and wait for things to fall into place for you if they ever do.
>>1337706
You realize that you like many other people before you have interepeted gut feeling such as that incorrectly, right? Millions of people have had very similar gut feeling as you about spirituality and come to many different conflicting conclusions. Obviously such gut feelings aren't sufficient reason to believe in something.
>>1337716
>Gut feeling
>"Incorrect"
There is obviously no rational or scientific evidence for spirituality or the divine, which is why intuition and gut feelings are literally all we have. Religion is basically:
1. Sensing/acknowledging divinity
2. Applying your own principles/morals to that divinity
That's how it appears to be, to me, anyways.
>>1337730
Incorrect. Spirituality is a very broad term that to many means living for something bigger than yourself, and more specifically something not tied down to specifically human organizations such as nations.
If belief requires gut feelings and gut feelings are unequivocally unreliable then maybe you should reconsider your stance on such belief being necessary.
Me too anon. Except 28 and still struggling.
I've read books about every kind of religion and mystical philosophy and still am a spiritual pauper, going from hyper skepticism, despair, nihilism, to child-like credulity and fanaticism and bliss, sometimes on the same day.
Mankind is hard wired for religion. It's the default mode of thought. Maybe it's a evolutionary vestige like the reptilian brain. Or perhaps there are more things between heaven and earth... Who really knows?
>>1337749
Have you seen Life of Pi?
>>1337784
>Mankind is hard wired for religion.
I'd say we were hard-wired to seek rewards, but religion is only one of them, and spiritual affirmation is completely free so it's convenient.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAEfeNLKwd0
>>1337788
No what is it?
>>1337797
It's a movie, don't want to spoil any of it but it's absolutely a contender for my all time favorite, and relevant to your post.
>>1337801
Thanks I'll check it out.
As a Christian, this board disgusts me.
But as a fellow human being, this board has made me somewhat curious.
Maybe you should into paleolithic culture. From what we can gather, they had animistic views like some native tribesman do today. Personally, I was always fascinated with the Cro-Magnon, Nenaderthal, and modern Aborigines cultures.
And I'm sure that primitive tribes sense the divine in Coke bottles and video screens, hence cargo cults.
This fascination with things you don't fully understand is an offshoot of our species' evolutionarily-encouraged curiosity, but attributing "divinity" to them is not constructive.
Nature (biological life) is innately important to the humanity and from a human perspective is important to the universe at large, but that doesn't mean it is "magic".
>>1337669
Does anyone else literally sense the divine spirit of nature and the holy thread that connects everything in existence?
Schizophrenia is a disease OP
>>1337840
I don't think you know what schizophrenia is.
>>1337669
>I'm 18 years old, and somewhat intellectual (for the average 18-20 year old)
>>1337669
>Does anyone else literally sense the divine spirit of nature and the holy thread that connects everything in existence?
I'm not sure if I can claim to have such a gift, but I try to see God in all things as a Sikh. The best effort I can make is to meditate and conquer my ego.
"To see with my eyes, and hear with my ears - every limb and fiber of my being, and my breath of life are in bliss. ||1||Pause|| Here and there, and in the ten directions You are pervading, in the mountain and the blade of grass. ||1|| Wherever I look, I see the Lord, the Supreme Lord, the Primal Being."
"Throughout the mountains, trees, deserts, oceans and galaxies, permeating each and every heart, the sublime grandeur of my Love is totally pervading."
>>1337694
This
just dont be a faggot about your beliefs
If someone ask a shallow question give a shallow answer
>>1337690
Believing something doesn't require it to be true.
It only requires that you act as if its true, regardless of it being true or not.
See: every religion ever.
>>1337669
Panentheism across the World's Traditions is an excellent book, it's a concept that kind of gets ignored in modern religious discussion
>>1337669
>Does anyone else literally sense the divine spirit of nature and the holy thread that connects everything in existence?
No, religion is man-made to comfort themselves, or sometimes fuck others over.
The human brain is very capable in making shit up.
>>1338941
>do you feel that reality is inter-connected and so much greater than we can ever imagine?
>lol no dude fairy tales lmao
What an autist
>>1338587
Typically humans care whether or not something they believe is true.
>>1338962
Objectively false.
For my examples I cite fat people who believe they are healthy, ugly people who believe they are pretty, stupid people who believe they are smart and so on.
In fact most of us believe in things we can't "know" to be true, as in we can't prove them true, but we choose to act as if they were true. Often in the face of evidence to the contrary, in fact.
Bump
>>1338976
What the fuck are you even arguing at this point? Faith is okay because idiots are okay with it?
>>1337829
I never used the word magic. Do you know what the words sacred and divine mean? Do you know what spirit means?
>>1340924
traditionally magic is divine. magic is just another form of petitioning the gods for a favor
>>1337669
Fuck you. Join the military. You're being a faggy teenager. Yes, you're being a faggy teenager. Despite the deepest assurances of your being, you are a faggy teenager. Our "deepest assurances" change as we experience the world.
Do deadlifts and eat only meat, eggs, nuts, and dairy.
No, fuck you. Your divine shit is a fucking mental parasite that pretends to place you on some lofty hidden pillar amidst the grand "sex and status" game but is really a fucking bluff with no backing.
You'll be more "divine" by learning a competent trade, performing it competently, and seeing the world as a prize to lick mental teeth to.
Wisdom loves a warrior, not a faggot.
>>1340924
I don't think you do.
Sacred means something traditionally important.
Spirit means essence.
Divine means relating to deities, which is supernatural, which is magic.
>>1340949
PS: You actually want to participate in the sex and status game
So pay deadly serious attention to it. There are many stupid participants and many many stupid possible moves.
Anything else is...onanism I guess. Unless you can help capital leave this world to colonize outer space.
>>1340949
I don't know really what to say to this. I actually do lift weights and go hiking every day, but how does any of this relate to my original post?
From what I can gather, you basically mean to say "Stop thinking about the beauty of nature and existence because that makes you a homosexual. You should fight for your government's interests or get a job and excel at that job. Being smart means being a 'warrior' (there are no warriors alive today), not being a homosexual who cares about nature and existence at large."
Basically, you're stupid.
>>1341234
You son of a bitch, as you grow up you realize how deeply men have to compromise with the scenarios they are given.
If you don't experience the world, you are going to be delusional and hence ineffective at your goals and dreams unless jacking off under a dreamcatcher every day suits you.
You lift weights? Fantastic. There's a level of play and phenomenology available to the ape that can climb a tree that is either forbidden or unknown to the ape forever grounded.
But by definition, you are a stupid faggot. It comes with being a teenager. You'll understand once you hit past 21 let alone 25 or 30 or... Keep thinking and being in error though, it's the only way to learn.
"But how do I know if I'm in 'error'?"
That's why you experience the world motherfucker and because, to rip off the bard, I could count myself a king of infinite space while bounded in a peanut shell. It is the world which tells you that your shit sucks, is bullshit, and needs to be improved.
That's why you practice a trade and a skill. It will not suck your dick for being so "wise" and "intuitive". The mistakes shred away malignant faggotry and fat.
But you weight-lift so you have much better odds.
>>1341271
I understand what you're meaning to say, but I still think you're stupid. The whole "Once you get into your twenties you will just accept the world for the way it is and find a way to be happy within it" is a joke.
I will tell you, my goals are to find a woman to settle down with in the countryside and rid myself of as much technology and mass media as possible. Of course I need a job to achieve this, and I'm taking college courses right now, as well as working part time.
If this makes me a "stupid faggot by definition" then so be it.
Be like the humble orang-utan. He does not care for beliefs, nor concern himself with anythibg other than his own survival. If you wish to honor nature, then do what it has made you to do. Follow your instincts.
>>1337669
> i think everyone does
hi. i'm an atheist. i know that my pineal gland releases DMT when i dream. stop being naive.
>>1341364
Come on man, don't be an ass.
>>1340774
Why wouldn't faith be okay?
There are many things we don't, and can't know.
You cant prove logic, or mathematics, or love, or aesthetics, or honor and so on.
We believe in these, without knowing them to be true.
We assume them to be true, and live as if they were true.
In the case of free will, for example, we KNOW its not true, yet believe it to be true, and live as if it were true. This is done on faith. Faith is fine, and necessary. We can't properly function if everything needs to be proven, and only things that are known for a fact be considered.
I think that in your hatred of organized religion you are dismissing the spiritual as a whole, and the abstract in general.
>>1342650
>Why wouldn't faith be okay?
>There are many things we don't, and can't know.
So then don't claim that you know it.
>>1342670
I don't. You are building and burning strawman, and dancing as they set aflame, celebrating your victory... over what? I am not there.
Stop putting words in my mouth only to insult me for "saying" them.
>>1342681
YOU are claiming I am building a strawman?! HA! Just read your post >>1342650. I typed two sentences and then you built up some elaborate position that I didn't even imply and then proceeded to argue against it.
And yes, you are claiming that you know something that can't by know, because that is exactly what faith is.
>>1342725
Faith is acting as if something is true, without knowing that it is true.
I wrote that multiple times in this thread.
I can tell you are upset, because you try to make this into an organized religion vs organized science clash, and are mad you can't.
Its okay. Step back, relax, and with a clear head, neutral, gray, look at what I wrote and how you responded to it. Stop being biased, and stop avoiding "defeat". Being proven wrong is how we improve. You were a simpler man, now that I showed you that you were wrong you are wiser, you know more. Celebrate this.
>>1342738
>Faith is acting as if something is true, without knowing that it is true.
Semantics.
>I can tell you are upset,
Wew. Thanks Freud, but actually I couldn't be calmer.
> because you try to make this into an organized religion vs organized science clash, and are mad you can't.
You are the one bringing up religion. I've NEVER mentioned it.
>>1342789
>Semantics.
How the fuck is this semantics?
Acting as if an idea is true, without knowing its true, or even if you know it isn't (free will is a good example) is absolutely not the same as knowing that idea is true.
It is nearly the opposite of it in some cases. It isn't at all a case of arguing semantics, and if you think so you fail to comprehend faith in the first place.
Faith and belief do NOT require knowledge, or truth, or fact. Acting as if what you believe in is true does NOT require it to actually be true, or for you to know it to be true.
>>1342789
I think he confused religion and belief for the same thing. They tend to do that.
>>1342808
If you have faith in X, would you say that you know X is true or would you say you aren't sure if X is true?
>>1342827
No, you would not say that X is true, however you would act as if it were true.
If you believe that you will grow up to be a great athlete, you will make sacrifices in your personal life and push your body in ways that can permanently harm it, because the outcome that you believe in, and thus you act as if it were fact, is worth these.
However you wouldn't say that it is a fact you will be a great athlete. You would say you believe it will be so.
>>1342812
Where would you draw the line? At what point does a belief become religious? Or are the two mutually exclusive?
>>1342833
>belief and religion being mutually exclusive
You are trying waaaaaay too hard here.
>>1342833
Possibly when you start to practice rituals of some sort, be they derived or self-made.
>>1342849
In that case would you say OCD is a religion, since you practice rituals that you believe make your life better, without knowing or having tested that they do?
>>1342829
>No, you would not say that X is true, however you would act as if it were true.
Semantics. You obviously are acting like it is true. Why? Because you believe it is true. Not that it MIGHT be true.
>>1342878
You believe its true, but you don't know its true.
The athlete training example I gave very simply explains the difference.
It is most definitely not semantics.
>>1342860
Perhaps. Superstitious practices before football games might also count.
>>1342887
Is love a religion? You believe that a person deeply cares for you, without being able to tell with certainty, and you perform rituals to express and nurture this live that you can't possibly confirm is factual.
Is honor, aesthetics, arts, all religions?
Is mathematics a religion? It can't be proven, we just assume it to be true. Its completely made up and non existent otherwise.
Your definition seems very flawed, since its too broad, and loses its purpose.
>>1342881
If you have faith that you will be an athlete then yes, you believe you will be an athlete. Faith goes beyond mere confidence or intent.
>>1342899
You believe that you will be an athlete, but you know that it is a fact you aren't one yet, and you know that the possibility that you won't be is real and exists.
You are aware that you might get hit by a car tomorrow, or break a leg sprinting or any such thing.
You believe you will be, and act as if you will be, and make decision based on the faith that you will be, but you know that there is a possibility you may not be.
You can tell the difference between belief and fact.
>>1342920
>You believe that you will be an athlete, but you know that it is a fact you aren't one yet, and you know that the possibility that you won't be is real and exists.
That isn't faith.
>>1342922
This is exactly what faith is. Believing something is true, and acting as if it were true, without knowing if its true.
You continue to ignore my other example. Educated people know there is no free will, yet they continue to act as if there was. Our society and justice system and everyday life acts as if free will existed. This is a species wide belief, a religion. This is faith. We act as if free will exists and is true, even though most of us don't know if it exists, and some of us know for a fact it doesn't.
>>1337749
>going from hyper skepticism, despair, nihilism, to child-like credulity and fanaticism and bliss, sometimes on the same day.
>sometimes on the same day.
You should see a doctor for that bipolar disorder anon.
>>1341271
its time to stop posting buddy
>>1342933
>This is exactly what faith is. Believing something is true, and acting as if it were true, without knowing if its true.
We agree on everything except you the exact definition of know. You apparently define it as requiring empirical observation. This is semantics, like I said before.
>>1343476
How is it semantics when it completely changes the definition?
If this is semantics, then reality also is a semantic issue.
For you to know something, it must be observably true, and there must be no chance of it not being true.
Believing I'll catch the bus if I run isn't knowing I will, because there is a possibility I won't, and I am aware of that possibility. I know that I don't know I'll catch the bus, but I believe I will, so I run.
The difference is very clear and easy to spot, as well as defining.
![52[2].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/JoW3R3N.jpg "52[2].jpg")
