Do Iberians hold the main responsibility for how fucked Central and South America states currently are ?
>>1306894
No. They've had 2 centuries to themselves with out Spanish or Portuguese interference. If anything it's America and Russia that screwed up most of Latin America during the Cold War.
>>1306910
This.
Constant overthrow and government sponsored coups tend to wear down on a country.
>>1306910
thus liberal democracies
>>1306943
quick question what does a liberal democracy mean to you?
>Mexico and Argentina used to be richer than Spain
>B-but it's Spanish fault! Damn these imperialist scum! WE ARE AZTECS N SHIT!
>>1306910
/thread
>>1306894
Yes. It wasn't fucked up before they got here.
>>1306910
>>1306941
>LatAm fucked before the Cold War even began
>It's the Cold War's fault
No. Just... no. Not to mention, some Latin American countries went untouched during the Cold War such as Mexico and Costa Rica. They're still shit. Hell, Mexico had open relations with Cuba, the Soviet Union AND had a Socialist Party in power for the entirety of the Cold War and the U.S. didn't touch them at all. If the Cold War was responsible for the death of LatAm, then certainly Mexico should be the exception, but it isn't. Cold War didn't do anything except continue LatAm as it always was.
>>1307207
This, we were happily living as the subhumans that we are.
The real illness they gave us was acces to ideology.
>>1307294
u.s.a. fucked these countries up even before the cold war
whole south america belonged to the economic empite of u.s.a. even before 1900 because they took those countries from spanish influence
remember the spanish-american war of the phillipines?
>>1307294
Not any of them but before it was Russians and Americans it was British and Americans. The USA has been exercizing his "america for the americans" way before the Cold War was a thing, and only the inhabitants of the United States are americans in english.
Two words: Monroe Doctrine
Compared to how they were before? One thing I won't shed a tear over is the obliteration of the horrible religion of the Central American Tribes. The only lamentable thing is how many people had to suffer and die for it to be completely obliterated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG8WqEyXIyc
>>1307375
>Hollywood movie
This is exaggerated not to mention it takes place when everyone started dying by the hundreds.
>>1307314
This, Chomsky has made some excellent speeches on US policy towards Latin America.
>>1307314
>whole south america belonged to the economic empite of u.s.a. even before 1900
Bullshit. The largest trading partners with South American countries were Germany and Britain. The U.S. was in third or fourth. The only Latin American countries whose primary trading partner was the U.S. before WWI were Cuba and Mexico. That's it.
>remember the spanish-american war of the phillipines?
That happened 70 fucking years after Spain fucked off from South and Central America and all that happened in the Americas was Spain lost Cuba and Puerto Rico.
>>1307316
Gunboat diplomacy was a thing, but the U.S. rarely intervened in governmental affairs. The only exceptions were Nicaragua, Panama and Cuba and even then it was a very small time frame (1890's-1920's). Again, look at Mexico. Mexico saw no intervention during their revolution nor during their civil war. They're still a giant fucking shithole. Costa Rica NEVER saw ANY American intervention. At all. Ever. Shithole. Latin America is a shithole because Latin Americans are shit. That's it. You can scape goat anyone as much as you want, but Latin Americans are responsible for themselves.
I'm going to wager that both of you are Latin Americans and thus are required to project because that's what you're taught in school (especially Mexico). Sorry to burst your bubble, but your text books are even more biased than ours.
>>1307314
Actually us Flips consider the American Period as a net positive.
Largely because it brought modern infrastructure and education and the lack of racism in part of the Americans (we were treated better than their own fucking blacks for heaven sake). They did try to bring Protestantism as well but we had none of it. I'd also count it a retrospective positive that US plus the Nationalists annihilated Spanish usage in the islands. If we stuck with Spanish, Flips would've had difficulty working in the emerging Globalized world.
Hence the saying "The US did more in 50 years what Spain failed in 300."
>>1307559
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Villa_Expedition
>>1307580
>halting a border raid is the same as governmental intervention
And the crowd goes "No." Ending the Pancho Villa raids had absolutely zero effect on the Mexican Revolution. What it did do was cause the U.S. to watch the events unfold more carefully, but they did nothing.
>>1307559
>The only exceptions were Nicaragua, Panama and Cuba.
This is pretty incorrect, at the very least the US also occupied Haiti and the Domican republic. There's probably others being left out as well but I don't know a lot about latin american history desu
>>1307621
I said rarely intervened and laid out exceptions where they intervened commonly.
>I don't know a lot about latin american history desu
You don't know a lot about reading comprehension either desu
>>1307589
>The U.S. also provided rail transportation through the United States, from Eagle Pass, Texas to Douglas, Arizona, for the movement of more than 5,000 Carrancista forces to fight Villa at the Battle of Agua Prieta
>An additional regiment of cavalry and two of infantry were added to the expedition in late April,[n 8] bringing its total size to 4,800 men. Ultimately more than 10,000 men—virtually every available unit of the Regular Army and additional National Guard troops—were committed to the expedition either in Mexico or its supporting units at Columbus.
>Pershing had virtually accomplished his mission and that it was "not dignified for the United States to be hunting one man in a foreign country." Baker concurred and so advised Wilson, but following the fight at Parral the administration refused to withdraw the expedition, not wanting to be seen as caving in to Mexican pressure during an election year.[31] Instead, on April 21 Pershing ordered the four columns that had converged near Parral to withdraw to San Antonio de Los Arenales.
Also, the Mexican-American War was a thing.
>>1306910
>>1306941
>>1307178
>>>/r/eddit
The answer is that Spain basically took the local structure of a small elite and a huge lower class serfdom and just replaced the local elites with Spaniards
Obviously as time went on, that system didn't function as well
>>1307294
>costa rica
>shit
you just see a latin name and immediately think "shit" without knowing anything about the country
>>1307559
>but the U.S. rarely intervened in governmental affairs.
>Mexico saw no intervention during their revolution nor during their civil war.
The US helped and financed Diaz, Madero, and Carranza. They helped the opposition to overthrow Diaz and Huerta.
Also, the US invaded Veracruz in 1914.
The US DID play a role in the Mexican Revolution.
And no I'm not from Latin America in case you want to go for an ad hominem, you obviously biased Amerifat.
>>1307670
>highest crime rate in latin America
>not shit
>>1307629
Nah, you need to learn to write.
1. If you say there is rarely interventions then say that the exceptions are these countries, the implication is that what makes interventions rare is that they only took place in these countries.
2. You can't say that interventions are rare because they only happened once in a swathe of countries, and a lots of times in a few countries. That is no longer rare.
3. This is assuming only military intervention counts, and ignoring all the aid which was giving to shitty dictators. Which definitely is intervention, you need to use more specific terms when you're trying to cherry pick history.
>>1307662
>Two hundred years of independence
The Spainards keeping us down muh amigos!
>>1307686
That's Honduras, you can blame sHillary for that one.
Thanks for proving you are a retard, if you aren't from a swing state, please kindly kill yourself, Trump doesn't need useless retards like you.
>>1307692
Honduras has the highest murder rate. Costa Rica has the highest crime rate. If you're going to cherry-pick figures you should probably do more than pull off the first thing that comes up on Google.
>>1307683
I have family in Latin America m8. If Latin America was doing fine then the US wouldn't have been able to intervene so blatantly and frequently. Think a little before you spout historical memes
American intervention definitely didn't help Latin America but it's not the reason it's shit
>>1307691
A lot of the richest families in Latin America descend from the Spanish feudal lords. Not saying you can blame everything on them, but still.
>>1307711
I'm not that guy, but I've been to Costa Rica and it's pretty nice. Even knowing it has the highest crime rate I would still want to live there over a lot of other places in Latin America.
>>1307722
Not much "feudal lordships" were granted in the New World, I think that you just mean elites.
>>1307714
>American intervention definitely didn't help Latin America but it's not the reason it's shit
How the fuck is it not?
The US throughout the 20th century helped overthrow elected leaders and implement puppet military regimes.
Political instability isn't good for the economy or creating productive society.
Who else should I blame for this bullshit, Russia?
The only country that they didn't really do this in was Mexico, but they did other ways to buttfuck them like making Mexico ignore it's constitution or helping into power people that were friendly to US interest but could give less a fuck about the indigenous and mestizo masses.
>>1307711
Not him, but crime rate is a silly thing though to dock a country. They could be like Sweden (all /pol/ meme asides) and rape, where anything counts as rape.
>>1307740
>The US throughout the 20th century helped overthrow elected leaders and implement puppet military regimes.
>Political instability isn't good for the economy or creating productive society.
That's why Chile is now a developed country and the rest of Latin America isn't despite suffering the same thing, right?
The ultimate problem is that Latin America is controlled by a small and very wealthy land-owning class. It's essentially still a feudal society.
Only very recently certain countries like Colombia and Peru have managed to begin to leave this economic and social structure
It was the Spanish.
>>1307766
>The ultimate problem is that Latin America is controlled by a small and very wealthy land-owning class. It's essentially still a feudal society.
Had the British colonized Latin America, no race mixing would have happened and the indigenous problem handled, thus creating social stability. The feudal bullshit wouldn't have happened, and Latinos would be more friendly towards capitalism and REAL democracy.
Instead, Latin America got colonized by a third world shithole and therefore imitates said third world shithole. And yes, just because Spain got rich off the New World, that didn't stop it from internally being a third world shithole.
>>1307780
edgy m8
>>1307722
And they were literally the ones that started the independence so they're more Chilean, Colombian, Argentinian, etc. than anybody else. They created the countries.
>>1307785
t. the butthurt Spaniard
Face it m8, the eternal anglo brings civilization, while other Europeans pretend they do.
>>1307787
>And they were literally the ones that started the independence so they're more Chilean, Colombian, Argentinian, etc. than anybody else. They created the countries.
You know that the wars of independence were reactionary in nature, right? They literally declared independence because Spain was 2liberal4them under Napoleon
>believing that the wealthy white spanish elite relate to the native and mixed underclasses
top lel
>>1307788
Yeah, I wish I could live in civilized Pakistan.
>>1307797
>They literally declared independence because Spain was 2liberal4them under Napoleon
Yeah that's why they stopped fighting when an absolutist king was restored to the throne.
>believing that the wealthy white spanish elite relate to the native and mixed underclasses
But I never said that? Also they didn't consider themselves spanish either because they were not fucking allowed by Spain. That's why they invented new nations. They did, not the mestizos and indians.
>>1307780
>"Great" Britain is now Paki
>b-but Spain is a third world shithole
Kek
>>1307815
Mostly because being the elite of your own country is a much sweeter deal than having to answer to a second-rate power a world away. You seem to have the false notion that the elites of Latin America are patriots, they're still colonists from Spain m8, they've just gone rogue
>>1307780
Like in Belize and Jamaica do you mean?
>>1307845
You mean literally every British colony that wasn't a settler colony, right?
Even India I wouldn't call a success story.
>>1306894
Brazil is not perfect, but I would say the Portuguese did what they could.
>>1307375
he would instantly die when he pulls his heart out 0/10
>>1307375
>all Mesoamericans are the Mexica
This meme needs to die. This has to be the worst post in the thread.
>>1306894
Yep. They imported (read: forced) Catholicism and their serf mentality, which forever ruined Latin America. There's a reason why no successful Catholic society exists.
>>1307874
It's a shithole where you can get shot at the street because some half-nigger likes your motorbike. This doesn't even happen in the middle east in a state of peace, you would need to visit Libya or Afghanistan.
>>1307938
You know shit about Spanish history, dont you?
>>1307996
Nice argument
You obviously have no idea how big the Catholic Church has been in Spain and Latin America for most of modern history do you
Communism is basically 'just fuck my country up': the ideology. Every country with a history of communism is still struggling today
>>1308009
As I thought then.
>>1306910
Yep
>>1307559
Ignorant post
>>1307766
Chile was one of the best countries before Pinochet, and only surpassed Argentina after his stupid policies were removed.
>>1308038
>t. ignoramus
Learn some history m8, offer some arguments. Read a little about Franco and his rise to power as well as his policies
>>1308065
Sorry to burst your bubble, but drop your book, that Franco guy was not in charge when Spain discovered America.
>>1308076
>moving the goal posts
We're talking about the influence of the Catholic Church
Just goes to show you don't have any arguments though
You really shouldn't offer opinions on topics you know nothing about
>>1308092
I love the fact that you REALLY think that you have something similar to an argument here.
>>1308157
It's hard to have an argument when you don't present an argument but rather snide remarks
I'm assuming that's only the hide the fact that you don't know much about the topic so here educate yourself
http://www.internationalbulletin.org/issues/2004-02/2004-02-063-klaiber.pdf
>>1308193
Of course I do, after all, you were the one who claimed that LatAm is a failure cause "Catholicims and their serf mentality" and then, told that I should read about a XX Century Spanish dictator to educate myself, and claimed that I was the one that moved to goalpost.
So sorry If I cant take you seriosly.
>>1308212
>you were the one who claimed that LatAm is a failure cause "Catholicims and their serf mentality" and then
That wasn't actually me I was just laughing at your stupid response. If you knew about the topic it should go without say that having a huge amount of land and giving it to a group that wasn't loyal to the state (but rather the Church) is going to do scores of damage in any attempt to have a prosperous society. That's why the first thing Mexico did when it became independent was take all of the Church's land. The fact that you don't know this suggests that you really shouldn't be offering any opinions
Goes to show how you think though
Lula da Silva blamed recently the portuguese because the first university in Brasil was created in 1920 kek
>>1306894
They hold responsibility but not the main responsibility. I'd say nowadays the attempt to spread socialism through Latin America holds the main responsibility
No. it's the inbreeding of natives here, plus mestizaje.
t. Chilean
>>1308226
>Stop goalmoving
>That was not me
>Educate yourself with this link wich talks about LatAm and Jesuits so totally backs my claims even if just tangentially talks about the point
>>1306894
Yes, they couldn't keep their dicks in their pants
>>1307874
t.Alberto Barbosa
>>1307356
this
Also, pirate (UK) trying to extend her claws into latin america.
>>1306894
>Is united fruits and co. Iberian?
No, its not, fuck off
>>1307874
It was pretty great when it became independent, actually.
>>1308248
The first university in Brasil was made by the portuguese king when he fled from Napoleon, though. Lula is an idiot anyway.
>>1306894
No
France is responsible for Haiti, but Spain isnt responsible for the current state of Latin America.
btw, Mexico was ruled by anticatholic freemasons for more than a century until Vicente Fox, recently. The Church isnt the reason either.
Millions of spaniards emmigrated to Cuba, Argentina and Uruguay, and hundreds of thousands emmigrated to other Latin American countries in the late XIX century and early XX century.
Argentina was wealthier than Spain till the 70s, and wealthier than South Korea till the late 80s. What ruined them is their local fascist movement (peronism), and the dictatorship of the 70s and 80s that ended with the Falklands war.
the cold war is the worst thing that happened to Latin America since its independence, but the URSS is to blame as much as the USA, blaming the USA only makes no sense. Commie Cuba was financing terrorists all over Latin America, and even had their army in Angola.
>>1306894
Absolutely
Spain left them with a mentality stuck in the middle ages, where the only legitimate means of social advancement was receiving bribes and extorting people through government office.
![potosi-silver-mine-1590-granger[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/BB6KCYn.jpg "potosi-silver-mine-1590-granger[1].jpg")
>all these people blaming the USA
do you guys not realize what absolute hellholes some of these countries were when Spain owned them? Do you not understand the magnitude of the racial class divide they created that holds them back to this day? Do you know anything about the type of society they left and how much continuity there is between that and the modern countries? FFS I know it's popular to jump on the anti-US train but come on, these places wouldn't have been vulnerable to US exploitation were it not for Spain's crippling of them in the first place.
>>1312945
Why don't they just tunnel through the side of the mountain so they don't have to go up and down the ladder
>>1312945
Latin America has less racial problems than the USA.
>>1313093
80% of indigenous Mexicans today live in abject poverty despite making up over 1/5th of the country. Mexico has multiple secessionist movements by indigenous peoples. They're treated like such shit by the rest of the country that the Chiapa Mayans had to flock to the EZLN to protect themselves and secede.
>>1313093
Racial strife is lesser in latAm, but institutionalized racism is far greater. It's far easier for a negro to be elected in the US as an official than a non-white passing mestizo in any Latin American country. The Casta system still prevails despite not being an official doctrine anymore.
>>1313247
>>1313506
the concept of race in Latin America is different to that of the USA.
There is no one drop rule, and interracial sex has been common since the first spaniard touched this lands, they didnt bring their puritan wife from europe to fuck.
And non whites were always not only a part of the society, but most of it.
In the british colonies, the natives only existed to be pushed westwards, they werent a part of the society.
Obama, who has a white mother, is a black guy in the USA, and wouldnt be a black guy in Latin America.
Evo Morales of Bolivia is a native american/Amerindian, and Alejandro Toledo of Peru was a native amerincan/Amerindian, and Benito Juarez of Mexico was a native american president of Mexico in the XIX century.
Also, whiteness is different in Latin America, it pretty much means caucasian, which means armenians, arabs, jews are considered white, pretty much everybody from the old world who isnt black or east asian.
And the standards for whiteness have never been rigid, a mestizo could bribe burocrats to get white status in colonial times, and if you look at the pictures of the many oligarchic white presidents of latin american republics, many will look clearly mixed to you.
Being white is better than being non white, but whiteness is seen not so much as a race, but as a status that can be achieved.
A mixed race soccer player that becomes a millionaire who marries a white woman, can have pretty white looking grandkids.
the modern descendants of Benito Juarez are much whiter than him.
races are fluid and not separate bubbles that have to be respected because we love diversity.
and south african apartheid style things, like the lynchings against blacks of the USA, are unheard of. Slavery was abolished simultaneously with independence.
Let's try to adress the main problems here.
South america has huge racial problems, we just don't call them racial problems, we have problems with the native population.
The race mixing worked fine, spaniards love for naturally hairless pussy, give us a lot of mestizo population, and only a delusional Natsoc will think that he doesn't have native blood (arg is white).
The remaining native population lives in poverty or near poverty, in Bolivia there's an interesting movement, given the new management by Evo Morales some natives are making more money and they developed a new kind of architecture knows as "arquitectura chola" or "cholets" and is the most amazing shit ever.
Main problem with South america is the land property, the land was given to the spaniards and the church after the conquest and remained that way by heritage, we have gone through several agrarian reforms, that always end in blood baths, and external influence, mainly americans and brits, like Monroe doctrine, make everything more complicated.
Socialism and the cold war didn't change shit, I'm dead serious, most syndicalist and marxist reforms or political parties, pre-date the cold war by a long margin, and nobody here, has never speak russian or seen a russian.
Our political problems are mainly border issues, or problems with free trade deals with bigger players.
For example in Chile, british companies controlled the metals market, this until the nationalization of the copper reserves during the socialist regime of Allende, something that Pinochet didn't eliminate cause he wasn't an idiot.
Current Chilean economy is copper dependant, and most the copper market it's controlled by chinese capitals, worst korea capitals also play a big role in the economy.
We don't have many society issues, racism isn't a problem, except for crazy right wingers that nobody listen to. But there's never going to be a Chilean president with a native last name. Never.
>>1307766
>chile
>developed country
when will this meme die baka
>>1313693
Argentina is white is a meme, but close to half of Argentina is white (if you consider spaniards and italians white).
In 1870 Argentina (1.796 millions) had a smaller population than Chile (1.945 millions)
in 1930 Argentina had almost 12 million people, of which 30% were european immigrants, and many of the others offspring of european immigrants who had come from 1890 on, while Chile had 4.2 million inhabitants.
That difference is explained by immigration.
Argentina was pretty white till the 70s and 80s. You can see it in how the faces of the soccer players changed.
It became a non white country because
A) The whites became middle class people in one generation, and therefore had a much lower birth rate than non white people who are the majority in the northern provinces like Corrientes or Salta, who have over 5 kids per woman.
B) Every time we had a military dictatorship, an important number of educated whites emmigrated, which is very simple for Argentines to do since most have at least one Spanish or Italian grandparent and can get double citizenship easily. Even nowadays over 60% of the population has at least 1 italian grandparent.
Soccer players who work in Spain or Italy often get the double citizenship in order to no longer be considered foreigners by the soccer teams (they have a limit to how many foreigners they can hire)
C) Argentina also has over 2 million Bolivian immigrants, who are given citizenship nonchalantly (and their descendants are Argentines), and over 2 million Paraguayans too. Also hundreds of thousands of Peruvians and Chileans who came in the early 80s (Nowadays Chile is wealthier than Argentina).
Argentina also has hundreds of thousands of Uruguayans but they are considered to be almost Argentines.
In a way, Argentine went through what Europe is going through, decades before. Although no one wants to build a wall or something like that.
>>1313693
>But there's never going to be a Chilean president with a native last name. Never
That's only because the native population is irrelevant in terms of numbers. That's like saying you'll never have a japanese or a kurd first minister.
>>1314232
Peru had a Japanese prime minister.
He was pretty good too.
>>1313567
>Slavery was abolished simultaneously with independence
>what is Brazil
>>1307294
Latin America wasn't even fucked before the cold war. Most countries had small agricultural economies, but most of them were growing.
They got fucked when Americans sided with the agricultural elite (and military dictatorships) to artificially keep the status quo while Russians infected the masses with their communist poison. Tension kept escalating until war broke out, which meant an influx of guns to most countries with the new civil governments not having enough infrastructure to stop crime from growing when (if) the civil wars subsided.
>>1308061
>after his stupid policies were removed.
t. lagordi
>>1314238
>He was pretty good too.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-peru-fujimori-idUSKBN0KH29420150108
>>1314942
This
T. Salvadoran
>>1307780
That's bullshit. The feudal society would have stayed even if everybody was a full-blooded Spaniard. The new Spaniards coming fresh from Spain were always on higher standing than the colony-born Spaniards ("criollos"), even if no race-mixing had occurred.
In fact, that's what lead to the independence movements: criollos had just about had it with the Crown removing power from them in favor of Spain-born Spaniards, so they reveled, but they kept the same structure with all the mestizos and amerindians below them (keep in mind that Spaniard colonies were notoriously low on African slaves unless they had American or British (fruit) companies on their territory, so the quasi-feudal system "just worked" for them).
Without the cold war, there would have been slow political movements to promote the disenfranchised lower classes (mostly mestizos) in a similar fashion to how black fought for civil wars during the 20th century, and left-leaning governments would have struggled with the oligarchy for such movements over the course of the century.
Due to the cold war, peasant-oligarchy tensions rose through the roof and military dictatorships had to be put in place (which only rose tensions even more), and when it could no longer handle the peasants, you got civil wars.
It should also be noted that many civil wars didn't end organically, but due to outside pressure (as the cold war was ending, the collapsing USSR couldn't afford to keep arming peasants half the world over and the US didn't see a reason to keep doing the same) and as such peace treaties were signed but most countries remained polarized.
(cont.)
>>1314990
That's not to say America's influence was all bad. Middle classes grew a lot thanks to American influence, and had the agricultural elites agreed to agrarian reforms (provided they evolved into being industrial elites in exchange of selling their lands), tensions would have subsided and we'd probably have rich economies all over Latin America. Unfortunately, the elites got greedy and everything went to shit afterwards.
>>1314973
It's nice to see there's fellow Salvadorans here on /his/.
>>1313567
>Obama, who has a white mother and wouldnt be a black guy in Latin America.
Except he would. It would just be joked about, though. There's actual racism towards Negros, but people with dark skin just get black people jokes.
>>1307559
>Again, look at Mexico.
Mexico might not be the best example, mostly because if there's a country americans have fucked since it's inception that is their southern neighbor.
>Texas
>the mexican war
>Gadsden
>Sonora
>overthrown of conservative goverment
>overthrown of the empire
>overthrown of Diaz
>Veracruz
>Villa expedition
Wonder if you're simply ignorant or a true dindu
>>1307621
>>1314279
to most latin americans, latin america is spanish speaking only.
yes i know, quite sad. stupid chicanos can't even learn english properly.
>>1314942
>Latin America wasn't even fucked before the cold war
This is wrong. Latin America didn't recover from the Great Depression during the war like America did. Most of the economies were still collapsing or on the verge of collapse despite selling almost everything they could to the U.S. In fact, most of LatAm didn't recover until the Alliance for Progress.
>>1315061
>Mexico's fault
>Mexico's fault which America took too far
>America
>America
>Mexico's fault
>Mexico's fault
>Mexico's fault
>Mexico's fault
>Mexico's fault
>BUT MURICA IS AT FAULT
Fuck off back over the border, Juan.
>>1306894
>muh victimhood
it's their own fault.
>>1306894
This will be my two cents. I personally think that the main responsible for the shitty development was the constant warring of different approaches to government that plagued the post-independence era. Hell I could even argue that the disconnection between the late colonial law, wich was almost completely made by locals and took into account their situation, and the copy of french codes had a bigger impact in today's situation than SPain.
>>1316468
This is a really good reason. The clusterfuck that came after independence was enough to sink latin american economies and societies into disfunctionality for decades if not centuries.
You clearly have gone full dindu here.
>>1315071
This is real and very relevant for the current situation in latin america.
To explain how much you fucked I have to explain you something.
High ranked Military officers in my country (Chile) just to come from very specific back grounds, they just to be the son of a rich family that wasn't smart enough to get a degree or was to violent.
When the little Augusto murdered the cat, the family decide to send him to the military academy, it was a nice way to make him a contribution to society that he wasn't going to be by himself, also if the kid was kind of faggy he was sended to the church.
That's how it worked back then.
After the WWII Americans had the atom bomb, and they started this training camps for young military officers, in a gesture of good faith we send you our violent retards.
And you trained them to be commie killing machines, but you didn't explained to them what a commie was (you probably didn't knew).
I'm not talking out of my ass my grandad trained in Panama, in one of this exchange programs and he stil have the manual to torture communists, your manual.
The whole soviet scare is bullshit, nobody speak russian here, and nobody ever did, there was not a single russian weapon or training, cubans came here talked some shit, and leaved, cause everybody was complaining, but cubans aren't russians.
Socialists fascination with the soviet union was just fanboyism, the texts about marxism leninism of the time were pure fanfiction and you can prove this yourself by reading them.
The one commie that we actually meet and listened to, was Trostky and he was expelled from the soviet union and hated Stalin.
After the military coup de etat, anyone could be labeled a commie, just by having long hair a beard or owning a book, you didn't have to read the book just having it, and most people never read them.
All of this was taught to our officers by your intelligence agencies, and that's bad enough.
