Was the South as glorious as they say? Serious question since I know little about Southern history and I haven't traveled much.
As glorious as who says? Glorious when? Regardless, probably not, since it had really never been "glorious."
>>1305500
Glorious in what?
>>1305500
If you owned a plantation it was probably pretty fun. If not you were probably a slave or a small hold farmer. Not much industry or non agricultural buisness opportunities. Hard to compete with slave labor.
So like in any society if you belonged to the wealthiest and most powerful class of folks, things were good.
/pol/ please at least make your questions a little more specific
"what were crusades" and "was the south glorious" are kinda hard to answer succinctly
If you find this appealing.
They had a unique thing going on. Plantation owners were essentially the continuation of feudal oppression in Europe brought to the Americas that developed its own flavor. Aristocracy had a suffocating amount of social conventions comparable to any court drama in Europe. Not to say they weren't extremely privileged, they essentially did no work. But spending 6 hours at ballroom classes because any proper lady simply MUST know how to waltz could get pretty grating. Large urban centers never developed due to this very segregated, agrarian economy.
Suffice it to say the south did not have a lot of social mobility but there was a wealth of culture that came out of this environment. Southern gentleman and ladies were some of the most educated and articulate people that side of the Atlantic. They just really didn't believe in spreading this education anymore than necessary to the common people. And of course those same wretched poor folk started many artistic traditions that continue to have massive influence such as many elements of our folk music and nearly all of our rock n roll.
Glorious? If you have a thing for unapologetic social darwinism, heredity aristocracy, and monopolization of economic power and education in the hands of a very arrogant few then yeah maybe. Aesthetically I think there's a lot to appreciate with the antebellum south but you couldn't pay me to live in that period.
If you like cities, republics, and industry there's nothing to appreciate though.
There was a great essay I read on this topic, basically describing the various ideological groups from Europe that went to the new world to form their own state. Like the Quakers in Pennsylvania, the puritans in the north-east, redneck shithead borderers in Appalachia, and the frightened nobility of Europe migrating to the south. I can't for the life of me remember the name though, I'll try to find it.
>>1305500
It's the south. There's not much to say except there are hilly places and communities are more conservative and well knitted.
>>1305500
On a scale of green to Neptune it was an estate tax. Does that answer your poorly defined question you fucking child?
>>1305613
If the south was more of that, it would be more appealing.
>>1305631
Sounds like Collin Woodard's American Nations to me. Breddy gud analysis as well t b h.
I'd add that the South really did develop a separate culture and a unique underlying ideology to excuse their lifestyle. Slavery was wrong, but excused by contradictory claims about how slavery was for the good of blacks as well as whites.
It was thought that for the blacks, it kept them out of trouble and provided guaranteed meals; if left on their own, they would be too stupid or lazy to survive (despite many big plantations run in their masters' absence by black overseers, or even common plantations relying on black managers of sorts).
Keeping blacks enslaved was thought to be good for poor whites, because it meant the labor market was not overflowing with cheap black workers (despite the fact that blacks working for free was even cheaper and dragged poor whites' wage potential down even more even as most poor whites did the same labor, often for the same long and hard hours, as enslaved blacks).
The plantation owners formed an aristocracy by virtue of their effect on dampening economic mobility (via slavery) and by political and social/community control of their regions. Appalachia and hill country was largely underrepresented in State legislatures even from the earliest colonial periods; political control was easy thanks to their wealth and entrenched position in gerrymandered legislatures. In the lowlands, the plantation owners exercised social control by providing regional cultural functions (such as barbeques, holiday festivities) and access to their capital (like mills, smithies, etc). Any additional wealth they acquired was plowed back into land or slaves, so industry was anemic in the South; this was because it was thought that laboring away at manufacturing was uncouth, and the idea that a real man of worth made money as the ancient Romans did - with large slave plantations.
If you want more, I'd highly suggest William Freehling's The Road to Disunion.
>>1305631
A lot of Scots in the South.
>>1305868
Yeah on that note one of the more interesting things I read about their justification is that they were actually extreme libertarians. Except that they believed that true freedom could only belong in the hands of the few who didn't have to work and sweat for a living but be completely free to pursue any endeavor. The slavery of hundreds was worth the pure freedom of one.
It sort of adds up, but of course who would agree to such a proposition unless they were the chosen few.
>>1305500
Southern culture was glorious in it's own right. The South, in general, was not. The Civil War was as much a culture war as it was a war of secession. Some things remain from the era of Southern Knights and Labor such as Southern Hospitality. Most of it died during reconstruction. The majority of what remained fell apart between 1917 and 1965 or so. Sad really.
>>1305917
President Andrew Johnson was a weak willed Democrat. He destroyed the South's institutions, let Carpet Baggers buy everything up, and then gave up on Reconstruction.
Dooming the South to a century of poverty and racial strife.
>>1305613
Who wouldn't? That looks cozy as fuck. I would love to have a beer on that porch.
>>1305500
>glorious
uh huh
>>1307753
I can't blame Johnson as much as I can blame Lincoln. Johnson just followed the plan that Lincoln laid out for him and when it became obvious it wasn't working he gave up the ghost.
>>1305868
>the idea that a real man of worth made money as the ancient Romans did - with large slave plantations.
Complete with giving slaves roman names.
Georgia resident here,
It has the good and the bad just like everywhere else. If you go to a historical city like Savannah, you'll be amazed by the architecture and layout.
There's plenty of small towns left that look untouched by time, and farming is still big so you can buy local eggs,milk, bread, and meat.
And the Appalachian mountains are beautiful, I try to visit north GA and TN as much as I can.
The really derogatory rednecks that give the land a bad image are few and far in between.
There is a lot to this state I haven't seen yet.
>>1308086
>The really derogatory rednecks that give the land a bad image
You forgot about the niggers that give the land a bad image and they are not so few and far between.
t. Alabama
>>1305631
>There were only wealthy slaveowners, slaves, and a few dirty whites in the South.
End this meme
>>1305500
I am in that portion not shaded on Louisiana, why is that not counted as part of the South?
And to answer your question, no.
>>1308160
Not OP, but it's a map of the divide between pronunciation of the word "pen". We're not included either.
t. Virginia
Sadly it is pretty shitty now desu. Most of the cities are just stripmall after stripmall and filled with niggers.The countryside is filled with meth and prescription pill addicts. Also it is normie central, super fucking hot and full of bugs. Hopefully I can get out of Texas soon and back up to northwest. Mountains>hot fucking pseudodesert.
>>1308196
How strange, thanks for clearing that up
It was pretty comfy desu
>>1305500
California confirmed glorious South
>>1308132
Sorry senpai I was just speaking very broadly. Can only be so nuanced over the course of 2 paragraphs.
>>1308110
Thank God for Alabama. It keeps Mississippi from touching us.
t. Georgian.
>>1309800
Thank God for the border. It keeps Mississippi in Mississippi.
t. Alabama
>>1305500
They literally only had Agriculture, and were going to rely on Europe for their major industry needs. So...It had no logic, when there were countless factories in the North. But in short, no, the South wasn't glorious in any sense of the word.
>>1308086
Another Ga fag
Yeah Savannah and Charleston are really the historical high points in the deep south. They even bring in non civil war stuff with the Uss Yorktown
Southern culture is doing p well there and in small towns
I fucking hate Atlanta tbqh, but really I probably just hate the people there
>>1310418
Northern mills ran on the cotton, that was part of the plan, since they thought they could get Euros to get it, but they didnt expect the anaconda plan to work out as well as it did
>no logic
cause its not like these people were educated right?
>>1305500
Virginia's planters built some big houses, had good manners, and popularized our notions of rights. They had slaves do pretty much everything for them so they could enjoy life at a slower pace and spend all day perfecting their rhetorical skills, etiquette, and studying law. The rest of the South's planters weren't so influential and for the most part were little more than an oppressive lordly class like the hacendados of Mexico or knights of medieval France, though with a far better aptitude for profit.
Yeomen farmers and free black folk had it pretty alright at first but after the frontiers were settled the wealthier planters boxed them in so they stagnated financially and transformed into the lower middle class rural types you see today. They devoted a lot of their spare time to music-making. Being a white tenant was kinda shitty but at least you were white. Being a slave had no upsides unless your master was really fond of you and you never showed any kind of resentment in his presence, and in that case you might live fairly comfortably as a butler.
Does that answer your question?
>>1310418
The Civil War was a LOT closer than you seem to think it was. European powers were always a danger to either side until Lincoln was able to use a large victory to make the Emancipation Proclamation not look like desperation (by making the war about slavery he basically ensured that England and France could never overtly help the South), and at several points much of the Mid West was also seriously considering seceding.
>>1310457
>and you never showed any kind of resentment in his presence
I always wondered if the South ever had a Wooster and Jeeves situation.
>>1307920
What was Lincoln supposed to do? Just let half the country leave?
