So is Central Asian history essentially just Mongols > Turks > Soviet Satellites? Anybody here knowledgeable on the place?
Before Genghis Khan mongols weren't active so much in Central Asia. most of people was turk in there . Then mongol guys came and took the Turks under their rule but in time their became Turk too. So most of Central Asia history belongs to Turks actually. If I were you I would say Turks > Mongols.
>>1298376
t. Turk
Isn't it other way around?
Turks > Mongols > Soviet Satellites?
>>1298378
But its true you idiot. This isn't TURAN shit.
>>1298378
I'm trying to take this matter objectively. Look history books I'm sure they'll tell you these too..
T U R A N P R I D E
W O R L D W I D E
![87755497[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/JBOQAT4.jpg "87755497[1].jpg")
Well that was fast
can't you guys make fun of me. can you try to disprove my idea
> turkics=turks
>>1298378
*t. Anatolian "Turk"
You Anatolians are not TURKS, you are turkified Anatolians (Greeks, Kurds, Armenians, Georgians, etc.)
>>1297224
It's basically Nomads > Nomads cucked by Persia > Nomads who cuck Persia > Nomads cucked by Persia > Russian cucking for everyone.
Ethnically and linguistically it's iranic>altaic.
The chinese also had influence there.
one word: Andronove
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andronovo_culture
Gokturks were Mongolid. thru genocide they replaced the indigenous Tocharians, Scythians, Parthans, Sogdians, Bactrians
the Donghu, Shiwei are Mongolic and created the Xiongnu, Xianbei, Mongols.
the Xianbei created the Tan, Nirun, Rouran etc...
The Tan created the Tūjué aka Gokturks
All this time the Mongolids lived in the periphery of Scythian civilization and learned/adopted the Scythian lifestyle and gradually advanced westwards until they erased Scythians/Tocharians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donghu_people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xianbei
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiwei
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rouran
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6kt%C3%BCrks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiongnu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuoba
>>1299762
why is the thought, or fact of mongoloids genociding the indigenous caucasian iranics so infuriating?
>>1299824
mongoloids were cute little eskimos before the Caucasoids taught them everything they knew and what did the Caucasoids get in return?
>be prehistoric Central Asian
>member of heavy-bearded, aquiline-nosed Yamna, Afanasevo, Andronovo, Tocharian, Scythian, Bactrian, Sogdian
>invent the wheel and chariot
>first to domesticate the horse
>build prehistoric cities
>meet innocent looking Eskimo-like people in the periphery of your civilization, in the tundra
>teach them your ways of the horse and lifestyle, transfer your knowledge and technology
>they adopt and adapt to your Scythian ways
>they expand from their tundra, permafrost territory
>gradually take ownershership of Scythian clay
>for the next couple eons you fail against their onslaughts
>indigigenous Scythians of Asia is now replaced by Mongolids
>>1299824
>>1299854
>be China
>monopolize on technology (porcelain, silk, paper..) secrets for eons
>Europeans beg for trade secrets of Chinese technology
>fuckoffgwailo.mov
>Anglos start wars to open free trade
>allow trade on condition that your Chinese citizens move to US and learn technology of west
>ban westerners from controlling business and doing the same in your land
>continue strategy of extracting all of western science and technology secrets for the next hundred years
>copy and replace western products
>westerners transfer all technology to you
>settle Chinese in western lands
>total replacement of gwailo
>mission complete
>repeating Scythian/Andronovo failures
the west never learns from history
>>1299824
>iranics
persians today are a mix of elamites, semites, mongols, australoids, and andronovos
>>1297224
>So is Central Asian history essentially just Mongols > Turks
Dumb anime poster.
>>1299958
yes but I'm sure they looked like pic related (too big to upload) but with higher frequencies of lighter hair/eyes/skin and like pic related
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0e/Afghan_men_praying_in_Kunar-2009.jpg
>>1299993
Even the clothes somewhat remember to some carvings in persepolis.
>>1299973
Pretty sure central asian turkics call themselves turks too.
They may or may not consider the anatolian turks to be real turks, I don't know and I don't want to put my nose in the realm of /int/ memes.
>>1299993
we should look at ossetians as an example of early iranics
we do know early iranics had alot of red hair and light eyes
those guys in that pic are pretty mixed
What's the difference between Mongoloid and Mongol?
>>1301057
mongoloid is a phenotypical class
mongol is an ethnicity
>>1302697
>phenotypical class
are turks mongoloid then?
>>1299993
Is that Iranian Adam Sandler?
Op here, thanks everyone for explaining. So correct me if I'm wrong but:
Scythians (basically Persians) > Mongoloid > Turkic > Soviet Satellites
Central Asia is the original homeland of white peoples, and yet they got genocided from there. A harbinger for the future of Europe.
>>1299857
It should be reminded that it was Indo-European peoples who first taught the Chinese to farm and work bronze.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarim_mummies
>The possible presence of speakers of Indo-European languages in the Tarim Basin by about 2000 BCE[27] could, if confirmed, be interpreted as evidence that cultural exchanges occurred among Indo-European and Chinese populations at a very early date. It has been suggested that such activities as chariot warfare and bronze-making may have been transmitted to the east by these Indo-European nomads.
>>1302943
This is cute, is it part of a series?
>>1303710
Otoyomegatari
>>1303715
Thanks. So no other regions covered in this style? Too bad.
>>1303725
The artist did an earlier series on Victorian English society. It even got an anime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpaPJni5o28
>>1303737
>animu
Jesus Christ just threw up in my mouth and also all over my laptop why would you do such a thing omgwtfbbq
>>1303745
I don't know. Why would Jesus throw up in your mouth and all over your laptop? That doesn't seem polite.
>>1302943
Is this map official or fan-made? I read the comic (although I had to pause it) but never saw that.
>>1303758
Here's the skinny on JC: He's a cunt, turns out that Bible shit was just fanfic bout the Buddha.
>>1303768
Seems official with Mori's little self-insert at the top right.
>>1303581
Yamna/Afanesevo > Andronovo >Scythians/Tocharians/Bactrians/Sogdians > Mongoloids > Soviet Satellites
>Persians
not in the modern sense, since they mixed with Elamites, Semites, Turks, Mongols etc...
Persians mixed heavily
>>1302933
Original Turks are mongoloid: Yakuts, Kyrgyz, Kazaks etc..
then there are turkified people like Azeris who are cacuasoid
remember they were east asian mongoloids that later raped the original Indo European people of central asia/west china.
However their invasion resulted in the rape and genocide of Indo-European peoples living throughout all of central asia and the middle east. Central Asia is now full of mixed race Elliot Rodgers thanks to them.
>>1303581
>Scythians (basically Persians)
That's a bit of a stretch. They're cousin peoples but it's like saying Norwegians (basically germans) or Portuguese (basically french). Also scythians were not the only inhabitants, there were other indo-europeans iranic like Sogdians or non-iranic like Tocharians with the same relevance as the scythians (if not more) since they were settled and survived for a longer time. Sometimes the chinese and persian empires had control of parts of those peoples.
> Mongoloid > Turkic
No, turkics came first. If you want it like that it's >turkic>mongols>turkics. But turkics were never completely replaced in the area by the mongolic peoples. Anyway those turkics and the mongols were not really that different if you're gonna consider scythians basically persians.
>>1301057
Mongoloid="yellow" people basically.
>>1303668
>who first taught the Chinese to farm
What is millet
>>1303833
>Portuguese (basically french)
Is this true? I thought the Lustitanians were't actually Celtic. Furthermore, Iberians are descended from the Visigoths while the French are from the Franks.
>>1304278
Neither franks or goths left a significant genetic mark, and you can't be genetically celtic, it's a culture.
>>1303659
history repeats
whites are docile.
mongoloids have proven proficient in adopting our technologies, science, civilization, without becoming tamed and succumbing to a weak spirit. they remain wild in spirit, yet proficient in adopting foreign marvels.
>>1303659
Boo-hoo. Who cares? White people owe their identity and entire existence to Europe. Newsflash. Hungarians and Finns aren't Indo-European therefore that term can't be used as a by word for white since those people are far more whiter than Iranians and Indians.
>Harbringer
I'll await the day you cucks wake up and save your real homeland.
>>1304357
History doesn't repeat, it rhymes.
>>1298376
i heard that even the moon is turk, mashallah
>>1300037
Well, Ossetians are mixed with Circassians, Chechens and Georgians too.
>>1304496
He's mostly right though. Specially if by "took the Turks under their rule but in time their became Turk too" you understand he's saying that the Chagatai Khanate and the Golden Horde, the mongols in central asia, were mostly populated by turkic peoples and the lingua franca became a turkic language (tatar and chagatai, related to kazakh and uzbek respectively).
>>1303962
millet means nation in Turkish.
>>1303668
>may have been transmitted
That doesn't make it a statement that indoeuropeans definitely taught Chinese people how to farm and make bronze you dumb cunt. Learn to read. Get the fuck out of here with that history claiming bullshit on the level of stupid afrocentrics. Tocharians were closer to China than Europe culturally anyways. Cultural exchange does not confirm that they taught the Chinese everything.
>>1304703
>millet means nation in Turkish.
Panicum miliaceum/Setaria italica
Crops were spread both ways. http://hol.sagepub.com/content/early/2016/06/01/0959683616650268.abstract
>>1304758
>Get the fuck out of here with that history claiming bullshit on the level of stupid afrocentrics
inb4 Chinese stole sericulture from the Tocharians.
>>1305004
Agriculture began in the Fertile Crescent around 13,000 BC, 5000 years before China
>common millet first appears as a crop in both Transcaucasia/Fertile crescent and reaches China about 7,000 years ago
>an area largely dominated by IE steppe people who introduced many things to China
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proso_millet#History_and_domestication
>>1303668
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seima-Turbino_phenomenon
>>1303659
Poor white people I wish I could shed a tear.
>>1299958
>Persians are a mix...
And Egyptians were Blacks
>>1302943
>Tajiks
>depicted as dark skinned and with dark hair
Tajiks are Caucasoid whites with blond hair.
The artist has no idea what Tajiks look like.
>>1306359
They look like any other brown person desu. The whites are a minority.
![Otoyomegatari v01 c01-05_iichan.zip-Otoyomegatari v01 c01-05_[iichan]-Otoyomegatari v01 c02-Otoyomegatari v01 c02 - 06-07.png](https://i.imgur.com/xV02pb3.png "Otoyomegatari v01 c01-05_iichan.zip-Otoyomegatari v01 c01-05_[iichan]-Otoyomegatari v01 c02-Otoyomegatari v01 c02 - 06-07.png")
OP that image is disgusting
>>1306359
he just needed an excuse for more little brown girls
>>1306553
>he
>>1306159
>Quotes wiki
>but it first appears as a crop in both Transcaucasia and China about 7,000 years ago, suggesting it may have been domesticated independently in each area.
Dishonesty at its finest. Tocharian nigs are even worse than Afrocentrists.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303781524_Between_China_and_South_Asia_A_Middle_Asian_corridor_of_crop_dispersal_and_agricultural_innovation_in_the_Bronze_Age
>>1302943
>Showing kashmir as pakistan.
God this pisses me off
>>1306359
100% nordic blondes
>>1306176
Indoeuropeans in the area had cities, not all of them were scythian steppeniggers.
>>1307170
Isn't the part shown in the map mostly under pakistani control?
People outside of the subcontinent doesn't care that much about petty conflicts between indians and muslim indians. It's hard for us to depict it in some way without rustling jimmies so it's normal the artist didn't rack her brain with this.
>>1297224
>anime
Leave
>tfw Turkey is the least Turkic out of all the Turkic countries
>tfw Germany is the least Germanic out of all the Germanic countries
Why does this happen?
>>1307450
They're called like that because, mostly surrounded by nations that are not turkic (or germanic) at all, being turkic is a highlighting feature. But at the same time this is also what makes them receive influences from the outside in a way that the turkic (or germanic) hearthland will never suffer.
Romania is also arguably the least romance out of all the romance countries.
>>1307450
>tfw Turkey is the least Turkic out of all the Turkic countries
Rape babies descended from rape babies.
>>1307541
Wrong, the correct answer is the scholars-imams etc that were mainly imported from persia that islamized and turkified the area.
>>1306359
This never gets old.
>>1307350
Those are pretty pale and need to get out more.
>>1307576
My point is Anatolian Turks are mostly derived from the pre existing population.
It blows my mind that modern day Turks claim the Xiongnu and Gokturks as their ancestors.
>>1307363
Scythia's later history is mainly dominated by sedentary agrarian and city elements.
At the same time, both the nomadic and agricultural Scythian populations increased along the Dniester river
besides cities of tocharia, bactria, sogdiana, khwarezm, parthia...
scythians were nomadic, agricultural, and also had cities.
http://discovermagazine.com/2006/nov/ancient-towns-excavated-turkmenistan
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/europe/4000-year-old-Aryan-city-discovered-in-Russia/articleshow/6683681.cms
>you will never live in a yurt
>you will never be able to chill on a comfy fur rug in your yurt while your qt wife smokes beef right outside so everything nearby smells really good and in the meantime your two sons get in an archery contest while your horse shits like five steps from the tent flaps but no one really cares because you're probably going to pack up your yurt and move in a few days
It's an abstract sort of feel
>>1307733
Actually Gokturks and Huns are their ancestors culturally.
>>1308978
Barely, language aside Turkey is undeniably a mediterranean nation first and foremost.
>>1308991
I wouldn't say foremost.if you look their culture you can see so many things from Tengrism(religion of old Turks) even this shows us their culture haven't took damage like you thought.
>>1309056
Turkey is the ultimate cuck nation. Here's why:
The people are mostly Anatolian, and originally had native Anatolian culture(which nobody knows really anything about).
Then they were cucked so much by invading Indo-European Hittites that they forgot their old culture.
Then came Assyrians and Persians, briefly cucking this nation once again.
Afterwards they were cucked by Greek invaders and again forgot their previous cultures. The Greek cuckoldry literally lasted for so fucking long that many people believe to this day that Anatolia is rightful Greek clay (muh Constantinople).
But then, something extraordinary happened. The ultimate final bosses of cuckoldry came to cuck this land once again: The Turks.
They themselves were originally steppe nomads who honourably worshipped Tengri. As they raped their way down south from their ancestral homelands in Siberia, they became a rapefest-mixed race of Persian-Arab-Levantine-turco-Mongol Muslims.
In the case of Anatolia they cucked this land so much that to this very day the native Anatolian people fail to recognize their true origin, adopted the barbaric steppe-language and truly believe that they are rightful sons of Turan, and somehow at the same time worship a sandnigger religion and look nothing like true turkic peoples.
But it did not stop here.
The fake "Turks" of Anatolia were one with their cuckoldry so much that they forcibly exported it to other parts of the world, most notably the Balkans, and West Europe today, like cancer, genociding the brave, based peoples who stood against them (Armenians,Assyrians, Greeks).
They created nothing, so they just blanda upped and stole from other civilizations. Their country is the proof of the horrors of multiculturalism.
Next time you see a Turk, tell him to look into a mirror and ask himself one question:
"Do I look like a Mongol"?
Tl;DR: "Turkish people" are neither Turkic, nor are they people, and their historical cuckoldry would make Sweden proud.
>>1310047
nah turks actually cucked a lot of people, they've cucked iranians/arabs/balkans/euros for quite a while
I'd say either indians or iranians are the most cucked/conquered people on earth
>>1310064
Pretty sure there's nothing more cucked than a rapebaby (that's you, Mehmet) adopting the language and identity of their rapist.
It's like if Spaniards decided to call themselves Moors and speak a Berber language, despite having like 5% moorish blood.
>>1310078
I'm not a filthy turkroach m8
in fact, I have no lot with any of the aforementioned, turks are cucked and extremely deluded into believing they are in any way related to turkics, but they're not as cucked as india/iran imo
>>1310096
>iran
They were cucked, but unlike the anatolians they at least kept their language/identity. Not to mention how turks follow the same sandnigger religion as the iranians (and a sunni version at that).
>India
How so? They're still (mostly) Hindu and they've kept their language and culture. If anything they're stronger now than they've ever been, considering the Indian subcontinent has never been this unified before the Brits came over.
>>1310121
kek can tell you're a pajeet
no nation/peoples have been conquered as much as indians have, ultimate cuck non-people, anyone who set foot past the indus saw indians for what they are, smelly subservient betas, it's why they've been fucked and ruled by indo-european invaders, iranics, turkics, euros so on and so forth throughout history
>>1310078
Armenian detected.
>>1310167
Hello mehmet. Butthurt over the fact that you and your "people" look brown and arabic instead of turkic?
>>1310047
What the fuck are you on about? Turkic is a cultural thing. If they speak the language they're Turks.
>>1305009
This thread made me have faith in /his/ again.
Thanksguys, I'm reading on ancient Tocharian sericulture right now and having a fucking blast.
>>1308093
nomadic life is fucking terrible tho
>>1306707
what is the Seima-Turbino phenomenon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seima-Turbino_phenomenon
>>1310344
You can't take anyone who tries to contextualize his own sexual insecurities into historical discourse seriously
>>1310344
>Turkic is a cultural thing.
>there is no such thing as ethnicity that is /pol/ propaganda
>we are one race the human race
>we are all african
>>>/reddit/
>>1297224
>Wewuz Turkics
>Wewuz Scythians and invented everything!
What is it about Central Asia that creates super-retarded claims?
>>1310804
Its a bukkake region of the world where shitload of cultures have intermingled for so long.
And them come the 19th Century and Nationalism, which led to shitloads of retarded claims.
Lets add in Russian Imperialism too which pretty much goes in two directions
1) Wewuz Scythians. This place used to be Scythians. Ergo Russian Rule is the norm.
or
2) All of you are Turkics desu. Russia rules many Turkic people. Ergo you join your Turkic brothers,,,under Russian Rule.
>>1310794
>Ethnicity is only genetic
Look up the definition of ethnic group.
>>1310838
>semantics
>>1303815
>not in the modern sense, since they mixed with Elamites, Semites, Turks, Mongols etc.
What a retarded commentary.
There was a genetic study published literally two weeks ago that discussed how the population of Iran closely matches that of Neolithic Farmers and Caucasian hunter gatherers present in modern-day from 4,000 years ago.
Iranians can be very mixed but Persians not as much.
>>1310047
Yeah they were cucked by so many nation genetically but they are speaking Turkish and they believe that they are Turk. You shouldn't decide what nation someone is by looking his appearance and genes. You should look his culture and language.
>>1310064
t. Mehmet Attila
>>1310804
None of the peoples of Central Asia except the tajiks and the turkmens has an actual history before the ~16th century, they're very recent invaders and immigrants. Even the arrival of the turkmens is relatively recent.
>>1311048
Gokturks ,Huns or somethings?
>>1311048
The ethnic divisions we see today were basically invented by the Soviets. Ethnicity and culture were far more fluid up to the advent of the USSR.
Any good books on Central Asia? 16th-19th century preferred, but I'll take anything.
Also A Bride's Story is one of the best mangoes I've read desu.
>>1311094
The Horse, the Wheel, and Language: How Bronze-Age Riders from the Eurasian Steppes Shaped the Modern World (ISBN 0-691-05887-3) is a 2007 book by David W. Anthony, The book explores the origins of Indo-European languages (now spoken by three billion people) in the context of the domestication of the horse and invention of the wheel in the Eurasian Grass-Steppe
>>1311058
Central Asians were called Sarts some Russians called them Muho-Srats
>>1311048
this
Uzbeks, Kazaks, etc all came very recently
>>1310861
>t. Turko-Elamo-Semitic-Iranid
>>1310804
Central Asia was the home to ancient civiliisations that advanced technology (wheel, chariot, horse, advanced metallurgy etc), trade, and progressed countless civilisations. They were erased by genocide.
>>1311394
No they didn't came recently they have been there for 2000 years or more.
>>1310779
Nomad life was chill as fuck. They only moved twice a year. Somewhere cool and windy in the summer. Somewhere (relatively) warm and dry in the winter.
>>1311394
>Center of Ancient Civilizations
>0 cities until some Iranics, Persians, Alexander, and his successors built some
>The ones in the Tarim basin literally rose up due to the Chink-to-Med trade routes.
Such advance, much civilized.
>>1311057
No Gokturk country in Central Asia. The closer (and only barely) would be Turkmenistan and that's why I gave them a separate place. The Gokturks and specially their presence in central asia is still recent historically speaking, 500BC is very young.
We don't know if huns were turkic or what and by the time they attacked Rome the "empire" was mostly germanic and the lingua franca gothic anyways so ethnicity was not important at all for them.
>>1311094
Russias steppe frontier by Michael Khodarkovsky is a great book. Obviously russia centric but gives great idea about on steppe politics, interactions with russia, etc.
The Turkic peoples did a lot of the Mongols work during their invasions. And if it was not for their support, like that of the Uyghurs (who had a pretty respectable empire of their own beforehand), Ghengis's original place in Mongolia couldn't have gone on to expand southward.
And after the Mongol empire fell because of Ghengis's imbecile sons, Turkic peoples carried on what was accomplished by the mongol empire. And in terms of trade and culture, actually surpassed them. This was because the groundwork had been laid down for them by Ghengis. But even considering that they did pretty well keeping the legacy of the Khan alive for several centuries.
>>1311431
>Scythian Cities
Laughed fucking hard.
They weren't sedentary until the cunts near the Black Sea started leading Hellenic Style lives due to Sarmatai forcing them off.
>>1311094
The new Central Asia by Olivier Roy is probably a good introduction, although it deals with modernity.
>>1311398
>cant into history
Kazakh, Uzbeks appeared mid-16th century in their current territories
>>1304385
>>1304357
>>1302697
>>1303815
>>1302943
I want to have a nasty threesome with the Tajik twins.
>>1311445
heard of Sakastan, Sogdiana, Saka, Khotan?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Khotan
>>1311455
Their names have been in Gokturk Inscriptions and these are only name of clans. you cannot start history of Turks from 16th century..
Does anyone know of any books on post imperial mongolia?
Ive been search for ages for something on the Northern Yuan/Four Oriats.
>>1311425
You said turkmens don't have actual history before 16 century. They have Seljuks, Gokturks and all other Turks countries.Turkmens,kazakh... these are only names.
>>1311425
>Turkics in Central Asia
>500 BC
Lmao no. Modern Turkmenistan and Transoxiana (Uzbekistan) was Parthian clay even during Sassanid times.
The first recorded Turkic invasions of Scythian lands were in 400 AD, and the Turks came in waves over the course of hundreds of years.
>>1311538
>You said turkmens don't have actual history before 16 century.
Never said so, learn to read.
>these are only names
Literal wewuzism
>>1311484
>the retard is strong in this one
Sogdiana, c. 300 BC.
Four old Iranian ethnic names: Scythian – Skudra – Sogdian – Saka
cities: Samarkand, Bukhara, Khujand, Kesh
The first Saka king in south Asia was Maues (Moga) (1st century BC) who established Saka power in Gandhara (modern day Pakistan and Afghanistan region) and gradually extended supremacy over north-western India
cities Sigal, Taxila, Mathura
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Scythians
>Sakastan, Capital Zrang
>Khotanese, a dialect of the Saka language
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Khotan
http://discovermagazine.com/2006/nov/ancient-towns-excavated-turkmenistan
4000-year-old Scytho-Aryan cities
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/europe/4000-year-old-Aryan-city-discovered-in-Russia/articleshow/6683681.cms
and fuck off now
>>1311608
>meme
upon further investigation, apparently not!
Seres Kingdom of Tocharians
>IE Europeans invented silk!
Seres was a confederacy of Tocharian people, who invented silk and traded it with the Indians, the Chinese and, through the Parthians and later the Sassanid Persians, the Romans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serica
>>1311761
>Being this retarded
The earliest evidence of silk was found at the sites of Yangshao culture in Xia County, Shanxi, where a silk cocoon was found cut in half by a sharp knife, dating back to between 4000 and 3000 BCE. The species was identified as Bombyx mori, the domesticated silkworm. Fragments of primitive loom can also be seen from the sites of Hemudu culture in Yuyao, Zhejiang, dated to about 4000 BCE. The earliest example of silk fabric is from 3630 BC, and was used as wrapping for the body of a child. The fabric comes from a Yangshao site in Qingtaicun at Rongyang, Henan.[1] Scraps of silk were found in a Liangzhu culture site at Qianshanyang in Huzhou, Zhejiang, dating back to 2700 BCE.[2][3]
Greco Roman accounts date to historical times.
>>1311753
>Scythian
>Mention Iranic Cities built by non-scythians.
Maybe you should stop using Scythian for shorthand for IRANIC because you're one confusing fucker to read.
Anyway, of the ones you mentioned, only Samarkand (then known as Marakanda) and Bukhara are the most ancient. Khujand was built by Cyrus (hence the name. Cyrus is Kurush in Persian) and I dunno which Kesh you refer to.
All attained prominence during the rise of the Silk Route trade. So they cant be these SOOPAR HIGH TECH PLACES CENTER OF CIVILIZATION N SHIET you're claiming them to be. If so then they wouldnt be peripheric places in ancient human history. We literally know of them only via Greek and Chinese sources. Some advanced people these guys are.
>>1311885
Scythian is Iranic you fucktard
various Scythian nations existed, not all were nomads.
Scythaic / Eastern Iranian includes:
Saka, Khotanese, Bactrian, Khwarezmian, Sarmatian, Pashto, Yaghnobi, and Ossetian
all being dialects of Scythian/Eastern Iranian
get that thru ur thick skull fucktard
>>1311885
also Merv of Scythaic Bactria existed since 3rd millennium BC
now stfu
You can leave the thread now.
>>1311823
weak b8 m8
two lands to the east of the Syr-Darya (Jaxartes) River that were part of the Bactrian empire: Phryni & Seres.
Strabo in Geographia 11.11.1 states, "Apollodorus (of Artemita, a Hellenic writer of the 1st century BCE) in short says that Bactriana is the ornament of all Ariana. They extended their empire even as far as the Seres and Phryni."
> part of the Bactrian empire: Phryni & Seres.
> part of the Bactrian empire: Phryni & Seres.
Seres (Serica) produced was silk and Seres means 'of silk' in Latin and Greek. The fabric was so noteworthy so as to find mention as a fabric worn by Cleopatra
Pliny and Ptolemy states Seres, "within the confines of Bactria" were known for "silk of remarkable quality.
>>1312338
>of Artemita, a Hellenic writer of the 1st century BCE
Yangshao 4000 and 3000 BCE,3630 BCE
Hemudu 4000 BCE
Liangzhu 2700 BCE
Where's the archaeological evidence of Tocharian sericulture that predates the Chinese neolithic?
Repeating the same debunked shit over and over again doesn't make it true.
>>1312305
>>1312282
Merv, Marakanda, Bactria, Khwarezm, Sakastan, Indo-Scythia, Khotan, Sogdiana have all been mentioned as Saka/Scythaic but there is heaps more of Scythia that your avg thick-sjulled autist would like to deny:
Scytho Kingdom of Shule and Kashgaria
Kashgar capital of Shule Kingdom
Chokkuka, Guma, Pishan
Kingdom of Saka
Scytho Yarkand
>>1312415
>Qijia culture region of Gansu (centered in Lanzhou)
>The Yuezhi (Indo-European) originally lived in Gansu and lasted until around 100 BCE, when they finally succumbed to Xiongnu (Turko-Mongoloids) and were forced to emigrate.
>Siberian and Central Asian cultures, in particular with the Seima-Turbino complex.
>domesticted horses found at many Qijia sites, of Indo-European culture
>The Qijia culture and Majiayao culture took root in Gansu from 3100 BC
>The State of Qin, later to become the founding state of the Chinese empire, grew out from the southeastern part of Gansu, specifically the Tianshui area. The Qin name is believed to have originated, in part, from the area
>The IE people extensive contact with Chinese in this area birthed the Qin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gansu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seima-Turbino_phenomenon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qijia_culture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yumen_Pass
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yang_Pass
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunhuang
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaanxi#History
>>1312442
>Fails to address argument
>Spams stormnigger shit
The ancient Rong/Qiang were descended from Qijia/Majiayao/Yangshao and anthropologically Mongoloids.
Technological diffusion =/= population replacement.
No one is arguing against the the eastward spread of metallurgy,agriculture(barley.wheat etc.),chariots and horses.
This doesn't change the fact that sericulture and millet have Chinese origins.
>>1312442
>The State of Qin
>grew.
The State of Qin wasn't founded as a State, nor grew as a state, but it was a Dukedom of the Zhou Dynasty, created and granted to the family of some cunt named Feizi. He was good in commanding cavalry and chariots so he was given the Western Marches for his military abilities since that area was always plagued by barbarian raids.
It only became a state when the Zhou Dynasty broke up and the dukes and marquises declared themselves Kings, starting the warring states.
>>1312282
Scythians are Iranic but not all Iranics are Scythians, fucktard.
>>1299993
Those men are ethnic Uzbeks. They're Turkic (or Turkic/Persian mix). I can tell because no other ethnic group in Afghanistan wears those kind of hats (black with white patterns, symbolizing fertility).
>>1313792
Not him and no idea about uzbeks, tajiks, etc. but the dudes on the photo of the link are completely different.
>>1313792
nope, those are tajiks from tajikistan
>>1299762
>>1299824
>>1299854
>Caucasoids taught Mongoloids everything they know t. Atlanto-Aryan
>Get genocided by a supposedly inferior people
I have a hard time believing that desu
>>1299824
Weak Iranian cucks fucks got fucked by superior Mongolian bulls, it's natural selection
>>1313756
>Qijia culture
>Whites
Pick one
We came down on them like a flood,
We went out among their cities,
We tore down the idol-temples,
We shat on the Buddha's head!
Idols of "infidels" were subjected to desecration by being defecated upon by Muslims when the "infidel" country was conquered by the Muslims, according to Muslim tradition
Why are muslims so disgusting
>>1312579
>being this mongoloid
Thank you for outing yourself as a retard.
Scythaic / Eastern Iranian includes:
Saka, Scythian, Khotanese, Bactrian, Khwarezmian, Sarmatian, Avestan, Sogdian, Pashto, Yaghnobi, and Ossetian...
all being dialects of Scythian/Eastern Iranian
You can leave the thread now shithead.
>>1312532
>sericulture have Chinese origins
>white mulberry native to central Asia (area inhabited by Tocharians)
>white mullberry leaves are used to produce silk
>Serica is the Kingdom of Tocharians
>Serica is where white mullberry grows
>Serica is the land where silk comes from (where it was originally produced on a large scale)
>Serica attracted many traders from China, India, Persia, Greece etc
>Serica/Tocharians got KHAN'd in ancient times
>silk now and forever associated with Chinese
today white mullberry is naturalized throughout the world, but originated in central asia
the land where white mullberry is native to was the land of tocharians
the chinese now control this land
> It is native to Central Asia and was introduced to Europe and naturalized elsewhere
SUMMARY
FAMILY: Moraceae
HABITAT: Central Asia
FLOWERING: Spring
PART USED: Bark, leaves and fruit
CASTILIAN: Morera blanca
CATALAN: Morera de cucs
BASQUE: Masustabe, parra
GALICIAN: Moreira branca
>>1313922
>>1313925
>t. bow-legged, slant pin-hole eyed, bucktoothed, long-torso, shortlegged Chang Khan Chin
>>1314551
He's right you know
>The Scythians (/ˈsJθi.ən/ or /ˈsJði.ən/; from Greek Σkύθης, Σkύθοι), also known as Scyth, Saka, Sakae, Sacae, Sai, Iskuzai, or Askuzai, were a large group of Iranian[1][2][3][4] Eurasian nomads
Iranic is the larger group. Scythian is a subgroup. You can't call Persians Scythian.
>>1314562
There is no archaeological record that Silk was first produced in Central Asia while we have Prehistoric samples deep within China.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sericulture
>>1314562
Oh and Serica is a hypothetical country named by Roman-Period sources who have never been in Central/East Asia
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serica
Might as well start taking Blemmyes seriously.
>>1314592
Scythaic/Eastern Iranian is a subgroup of Iranian, it covers the Scythian dialects:
Saka, Scythian, Khotanese, Bactrian, Khwarezmian, Sarmatian, Avestan, Sogdian, Pashto, Yaghnobi, and Ossetian...
the Oxus civilization, Tanssaxonia, Khwarezm, Herat, Bactrian, Sogdian, Sakastan, Khotan, Khasgar, Yarkand, Balkh, Merv are all part of the greater Scythian family
in fact Zoroastrianism is Scythian.
>>1314598
>>1314592
Seres (Serica) produced was silk and Seres means 'of silk' in Latin and Greek. The fabric was so noteworthy so as to find mention as a fabric worn by Cleopatra
Pliny and Ptolemy states Seres, "within the confines of Bactria" were known for "silk of remarkable quality.
Pliny the Elder states: The first people that are known of here are the Seres, so famous for the silk that is found in their mullberry tree forests. After steeping it in water, they comb off a white down that adheres to the leaves; and then to the females of our part of the world they give the twofold task of unravelling their textures, and of weaving the threads afresh (this describes silk thread extraction). So manifold is the labour, and so distant are the regions which are thus ransacked to supply a dress through which our ladies may in public display their charms.
>>1314628
Oh wait, youre THAT guy.
Sorry not speaking to you. Might as swell spend early mornings talking to Black Egyptian theorists. Good day
>>1314562
>More stormnigger dishonesty
The white mulberry is native to eastern and central China.
https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mulberry.html
The earliest archaeological/textual evidence is from China.
The earliest evidence of silk was found at the sites of Yangshao culture in Xia County, Shanxi, where a silk cocoon was found cut in half by a sharp knife, dating back to between 4000 and 3000 BCE. The species was identified as Bombyx mori, the domesticated silkworm. Fragments of primitive loom can also be seen from the sites of Hemudu culture in Yuyao, Zhejiang, dated to about 4000 BCE. The earliest example of silk fabric is from 3630 BC, and was used as wrapping for the body of a child. The fabric comes from a Yangshao site in Qingtaicun at Rongyang, Henan.[1] Scraps of silk were found in a Liangzhu culture site at Qianshanyang in Huzhou, Zhejiang, dating back to 2700 BCE.[2][3]
I never understand why /pol/ hates the Turks.
Anatolian Turks are basically Greek people. Some groups are shitting up the place lately, but they're mostly secular anyways so even the usual Muslim hate doesn't make a lot of sense.
Central Asian Turkic people are almost never heard of outside of Kazakhstan, who are cucked by the Russians and /pol/ loves Russia anyways so I don't get it.
Especially when they love the Kurds, who are even more middle eastern (pretty much Iranian) and even more Muslim.
>>1314883
>I never understand why /pol/ hates the Turks.
Because they're muslim and muh Constantinople
>Anatolian Turks are basically Greek people
Wrong. They're a mix of Greek/Balkan, Arab, Persian, and true Turks.
>but they're mostly secular anyways so even the usual Muslim hate doesn't make a lot of sense
Turkey is most definitely not secular
>Especially when they love the Kurds, who are even more middle eastern (pretty much Iranian) and even more Muslim.
/pol/ does not love Kurds. That is not true in the slightest.
>>1314927
>Wrong. They're a mix of Greek/Balkan, Arab, Persian, and true Turks.
That's true for Greeks living in Greece too, though.
>Turkey is most definitely not secular
Except it is. It hasn't been in recent years, but it's as secular as a muslim nation gets without drinking the communist kool-aid.
It may return to a shitty Muslim state if Erogan's party stays in power, but the chances of that are slim.
>/pol/ does not love Kurds. That is not true in the slightest.
Well, I've seen some praising the Kurds for killing Turks and wishing them luck.
>>1311408
keep being delusional
>>1302943
This is actually a pretty good series, I'm reading it at the moment
It's got tiddies
>>1311408
> They only moved twice a year
You got at least that part right
Indeed central asian nomads usually had two more or less fixed camps that they alternated betweeт -- winter- and summer- places however they did not for comfyness as describe but out of necessity
Summer place needs to have a lot of grass and within that time cattle destroys all vegetation there
Winter camp was chosen to reduce the damage of an extremely harsh winter in Central Asia
>>1314824
The Shahnameh of Ferdowsi placed Serica (Kingdom of Silk) to the east of Airan and also to the east of Sugd east of the Syr-Darya (Jaxartes) River and part of Balkh (Bactria).
The oldest known example of silk outside Serica comes from the hair of a 21st Dynasty (around 1000 BC) Caucasoid female
mummy from Dar el Medina.
Silk has also been found in the Scythian nomad tombs at Pazyryk in the Altai, dating from the fifth to the third centuries BC (figure 4), and even in Celtic tombs of the La Tène culture, 21 in sites as far apart as Scotland and Germany, where silk threads were used in embroidering the clothes of the aristocracy. It is also likely that raw silk, reaching Greece by way
of the Black Sea and its Scythians, was woven into textiles at Cos.
Parthian Persians have used silk for their battle banners.
But if sericulture took time to establish, the art of weaving silk began in Iran a great deal
earlier. In 224 AD the Persian Empire came under the control of the Sasanian dynasty, who
rapidly established dominance of the silk trade, and went into the business of establishing their
own government-controlled silk weaving industry, developing distinctive and sophisticated
designs (figure 5).
Sasanian weavers,developed a compound weft silk twill with elaborate repeating motifs such as winged lions,
hunting scenes, tree of life patterns, and opposing birds, each motif enclosed within a pearl-like
roundel, and each group of roundels separated by scrolling, geometric plant forms
>>1314824
the land where white mullberry is native to was the land of tocharians
the chinese now control this land
>the chinese now control this land
>it is now part of china
>chinese conquered this tocharian land
> It is native to Central Asia and was introduced to Europe and naturalized elsewhere
SUMMARY
FAMILY: Moraceae
NATIVE HABITAT: Central Asia
FLOWERING: Spring
PART USED: Bark, leaves and fruit
CASTILIAN: Morera blanca
CATALAN: Morera de cucs
BASQUE: Masustabe, parra
GALICIAN: Moreira branca
http://www.mtplantas.com/eng/plants/morera.htm
>>1315274
Otoyomegatari is one of those manga series most people agree they're art.
>>1314883
>I never understand why /pol/ hates the Turks.
They love muh Europa and hating the Ottoman Empire (i.e. the turks) is one of the pillars of european identity.
>>1316292
I thought that was only true for Balkanniggers.
>>1316301
You know nothing about european early modern history, then.
>>1314883
I never understand why progressives love an empire built upon conquest and slavery.
>>1316306
The French were quite fond of the Ottomans until the Ottomans ended up being a Central Power. They preferred them over their European rivals.
>>1316324
>Modern day Turkey
>Empire built upon conquest and slavery
Nice ad hominem by the way, of course I must be a "progressive" for not absolutely hating the Turks.
>>1316392
>The French were quite fond of the Ottomans
Because they were stable. The same reason the English liked them as well and later the Austrians.
>>1316392
Modern Turkey is built upon the Armenian, Greek and Assyrian genocides. It isn't much better.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confiscated_Armenian_properties_in_Turkey
>Historians argue that the mass confiscation of Armenian properties was an important factor in forming the economic basis of the Turkish Republic while endowing Turkey's economy with capital. The appropriation led to the formation of a new Turkish bourgeoisie and an exclusive middle class.
>>1314628
>Trusting anything written by Ancient Greeks
These were the people who monstrously fucked up and distorted the history of the Persians and Egyptians who lived right next to them. What makes you think that they would be any more accurate in describing nations on the other side of the earth with whom they had almost no direct contact except through Bactrian intermediaries?
Even 19th century scholars were forced to concede that "at any rate, from wheresoever the intelligence was drawn, there is so much confusion and inaccuracy in all Pliny's Persian geography, that it will rarely admit of verification" (from a treatise on ancient Iranian geography)
>>1315337
Holy shit, this is hilarious, I'm reading the paper on Sassanian culture from which this text was extracted, and this is a direct quote:
"Sericulture originated in China, and rapi
dly became important as the defining female
contribution to the family economy, practiced by
all classes from the em
press to the peasant.
According to legend, around 2700 BC
Leizu, wife of the mythical
and creative Yellow Emperor
Huangdi, sat beneath a mulberry tree sipping her tea, when a fat, white cocoon fell into her cup..."
"In reality sericulture developed in China possibly as early as 7000 years ago, as evidenced by fabric fragments and spinning tools from sites along the lower Yangzi River."
"While there are several species of silk-producing moths found in a number of countries, sericulture in China focussed on the slow development of a particular type of moth, Bombyx mori. Blind and flightless, it can exist only with human intervention, and it will eat only the white mulberry, which was also unique to China."
>>1315342
Also, nice, getting your information from a random website about "medicinal plants." Here's the correct information from a more authoritative source:
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/taxonomydetail.aspx?id=24607
Notice that it says that it's native to China.
>>1318345
>>1318309
>what is now part of china was once tocharian
>the land where white mullberry is native to was the land of tocharians
>the chinese now control this land
see >>1315342
>>1318223
>extensive trade, contact between Greek diaspora of Eurasia for centuries
>I was saying that Greeks in Greece did not know what was going on with the Greeks in Asia because they are too fucking far away.
The interaction of Greek and Buddhist cultures operated across Eurasia and over several centuries until it ended in the 5th century AD with the invasions of the Hephthalite Empire and the expansion of Islam.
The length of the Greek presence throughout Eurasia including northern India provided opportunities for interaction, not only on the cultural, commercial, but also on the religious plane.
thats your ignorant opinions that conflict w/ facts
the silk road was not a mongol or a chinese phenomenon, it existed eons before and connected cultures all over eurasia, not just to link to china
the greeks lived throughout the ancient silk road and it would be retarded to go against historical facts claim they had no contact with eachother and were isolated
greco-bactria much?
buddhism became christianity thanks to the intimate relations with greeks
>knew so little that they provide a detailed and accurate of silk-making process
see >>1314628
>>1319465
The white mulberry is native in central and eastern China, not Northern China where the Tocharians were.
https://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/mulberry.html
>>1319588
My bad. Tarim Basin is in Western China.
>>1319588
> chinese rare fruit growers
>mullberry
>rare
so much for your source
also you can play all day and pick certain cidf sites to back up your false claim.
>Morus alba (White mulberry) Native from central Asia to China.
http://www.biodiversityexplorer.org/plants/moraceae/morus.htm
>White Mulberry Native to east and central Asia
http://www.irgardencentre.com/product-p/morus-alba.htm
I'm sceptical of any claims coming out of China today. They are extremely tight lipped when it comes to archeology that it just sends like they have a political advisor telling them to find only correct history.
>>1319617
>Chinese Rare Fruit Growers
>Chinese
Are you illiterate? CRFG means California Rare Fruit Growers. It's not a Chinese website. Also, the "rare" part is just a name and has no major bearing on the stuff they list. They have cranberries. Are they rare? There are other sources that confirm that the white mulberry is found in central-eastern China.
http://www.bellarmine.edu/faculty/drobinson/WhiteMulberry.asp
http://innvista.com/health/foods/fruits/mulberries/
http://afghanag.ucdavis.edu/a_horticulture/fruits-trees/mulberry/Man_Fruit_Mulberry_CRFG.pdf
All this and you have yet to prove that the Tocharians' sericulture is older than China's.
>>1319617
>I'm sceptical of any claims coming out of China today. They are extremely tight lipped when it comes to archeology that it just sends like they have a political advisor telling them to find only correct history.
You're just a delusional stormnigger who thinks the Qin are White.
Where's the evidence of sericulture that predates Yangshao,Hemedu and Liangzhu?
>>1319651
>california, australia, canada
>not china 2.0
fuck off chang, the origin of white mullberry is tocharian lands, now occupied by mongs/chongs
none of your mental gymnastics can hide that
