Where did the meme " asians are good at martial fighting" come from ?
I bet none of these clowns in the pic could beat guys like Klitschko or Tyson.
>>1280849
Do you live under a rock? Did you ever hear of hollywood?
>>1280849
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaolin_Kung_Fu#Ming_dynasty_.281368.E2.80.931644.29
I'm sorry, did Tyson go to war versus Japanese pirates? No?
Then Tyson a nigger.
>>1280849
The 80's.
Deadly combination of Kung Fu films and Chambara.
Alright. Bruce lee beat up jackie chan right? I remember seeing that in that jackie chan cartoon.
>implying those manlets could take the Viking warriors
>>1280849
They keep a good collection of Martial Arts so we can enjoy some movies.
>>1280849
Underaged/socially retarded, either way, I think /r9k/ is more your pace friendo
![1436293417388[2].png](https://i.imgur.com/o0zQ1pN.png "1436293417388[2].png")
>>1280849
>>1280851
He probably means before Hollywood got a hold of it. My guess would be that the martial tradition of the Orient has simply been better preserved than that of the Occident.
In Western Europe there were entire schools dedicated to both armed and unarmed martial techniques, with many different styles (some of them surviving to this very day). However, most of them fell out of favor after the introdution of gunpowder weapons and faded into obscurity. The key element here is that Europeans fashioned these weapons themselves.
In the orient, the change of the way wars were fought were seen as a Western thing that needed to be adopted out of necessity. Local martial arts were seen as truly "their" way of fighting and thus painstakingly preserved. It also helped that Japanophilia was huge in France at around the same time as the Meiji restoration. It was actually so big that the French ended up designing Savate: a combination of boxing and oriental martial arts.
That's my guess for why oriental martial arts are better preserved and ended up inspiring so many martial arts movies.
>>1280849
>Klitschko or Tyson.
You know they would get raped by anyone who knows Judo, right? If you had named MMA fighters then I would've agreed with you.
>>1281322
>Their martial arts are better preserved.
Meme actually.
Azn martial arts are similar to Western ones in that both cunts are working on the basis of 1700s-1800s Martial Arts. Memes aside, both China and Japan were actually pretty gun-crazy during that period. To the point that like in Europe the combination of large armies + firearms usage led to the demise of mass-armor usage and Chinese and Japanese soldiers started wearing uniforms.
Besides military manuals we have no idea how cunts in, say, 1500's Japan or China, dealt with using swords versus armor. Slants could benefit with the same approach to academic/living archaeology martial art studies the way HEMA does it.
>>1280849
>martial fighting
There is no optimal martial art imo. Every fighting style was efficient enough to be used and teached under certain circumstances.
Romanticization of asian martial prowsess has been seen throughout the centuries before hollywood or movie era.
From the noble japanese samurai to ninjas to shit like boxer rebellion.
>>1280856
> The monks suffered their greatest defeat at Taozhai, where four of them fell in battle
>four
>>1281538
>>1281538
This is somewhat inaccurate. While most surviving japanese styles come from 1600's on, there are a handful that date before that, and any number of arts whose founders fought on the battlefield and preserved battlefield weapons and armored fighting techniques. Unlike HEMA these are living lineages. Since the knowlege was never forgotten, many newer arts founded in later centuries still include a study of armored fighting in their curriculum.
Japanese sword arts are actually doing just fine, there is little need for experimental archeology because the living lineages still exist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRfQjj8ltEg [Embed]
>>1281693
IIRC Four masters.
Which meant "four dudes who have studied buddhist texts, taught younglings, and did martial arts for years." Huge blow that.
>"killed" 700 millions Japs a year
http://offbeatchina.com/700-million-japanese-soldiers-died-in-china-in-2012
Chinks are confirmed kungfu masters, too bad they did not use that at Nanjing.
>>1280919
oh look at me! i can kill unarmed peasants with my sword and shield!
t. viking
>>1283129
>>1280919
>Vikings
>Good warriors
Dude... They were average on the best days and on their worst they may as well have not even shown up to battle. If you want an example of good western warriors then you're better off going with a knight since many of them were actually trained to fight.
>>1281538
>HEMA
>academic
>archaeology
That's a funny way to say ren-fair autism.
>>1280849
what are some good (trustworthy) sources on the shoalin monks? preferably academic sources
>>1284111
Well for one instance you should stop thinking of Shaolin Monks and start reading Imperial Chinese Legal codes.
You see, in China, if you live in the vast Rural countryside far away from the main army garrisons that tend to gather near cities, you're responsible for your own policing. To help you do this. You are
1) Allowed to buy weapons n shiet sans "military weapons" like crossbows, and later on, guns & cannons. But this was hard to enforce and sometimes villagers made their own cannons from metal (rare), tree trunks (common) or even fucking stone (super rare).
2) Sent legal officers to manage 3-4 villages with duties such as to judge crimes, to mete out executions, and to train the posse in basic military maneuvers. Judge Dredds basically.
And included in this system were various Chinese monastic orders of multiple faiths. With monks though there are key differences
1) Regimented discipline and shitloads of free-time.
2) Monasteries -thru state & private donations- are large storehouses of food, money, and other precious items.
This made them train harder than peasants since:
1) Martial Arts = Exercise
2) They have to protect their shit from bandits who will most likely attack them than a village.
3) All that free time and discipline meant their training was almost paramilitary.
So when the Militia was called for emergency shit - like the pirate threat of the 1560's in Coastal China, the Monks were considered prime civilian fighters because of their paramilitary training. ALL Monks, not just the Shaolin Monastery guys.
Pic related, Mt. Wudang. A Taoist Sanctuary. Also famed for martial arts.
>>1283129
Just as the Americans couldn't use their Call of Duty skills in 9/11 lol
>>1281322
>Yasuhiro Yamashita in his prime would likely defeat them in less than a minute.
Prime Tyson would literally have killed him within a minute.
>>1283244
Hema is based upon historical fighting treatises, it's hardly made up. Obviously there are some weapons and periods which do not have very good documentation but those are so rarely practised that it is hardly worth bringing up.
>>1285202
At least they have the balls to invade and bombed the shit out of those sand nigger's home. Unlike Chinks, who could only make some C-rating tv shows to "take revenge" on the Japs.
>>1285252
as compared to American TV were every Russian,German, Arab and Asian are evil?
>>1285207
And you base this upon what?
Knowing both fighters well, I think that Yasuhiro could have Tyson on the ground with a dislocated shoulder and in submission within 5-10 seconds. I say this as somebody who has trained in both boxing and judo for 15+ years.
>>1285258
>as compared to American TV were every Russian,German, Arab and Asian are evil?
And Muricans themselves, Aliens, Blacks......... Funny, most of Hollywood's memorable villains are Muricans. Like Joker, Norman Bates, Jason Voorhees.....
>>1280919
>Viking warriors
that's an even bigger meme
at least Chinese had a large ass empire to speak of
>>1285258
God that show made me mad. I knew it'd miss the point from the start.
Dick is based af.
>>1280919
>tfw no burly bearded Viking bf
famous Asian martial arts are more accessible to civilians since they were created with civilian use in mind.
not only can the people in your country can practice it more easily it lends itself to the type of underdog stories Hollywood loves
>>1284840
Bumping for this guy's great explanation
>>1285252
> Unlike Chinks, who could only make some C-rating tv shows to "take revenge" on the Japs.
wew lad, but you know what's even more pathetic that C-rated TV shows? Bombing the wrong countries as you are too cucked or too dumb to realise that Bin Laden was from "your loyal ally" Saudi Arabia, not Afghanistan or Iraq.
>>1287331
>>1285263
You base your opinion on what exactly?
>I say this as somebody who has trained in both boxing and judo for 15+ years.
You seriously think that gives your opinion any weight? Think about this. There are two mountains, mount A and B, and Mr. Dickeater who has been a mountain climber for 15+ years. Mr. Dickeater has not climbed either mountain or has no information that allows him to determine which mountain is taller. You are Mr. Dickeater. Mount A and B are Tyson and Yasuhiro. Eat a dick, faggot.
>>1280919
I really hate this meme.
The best 'Horde' army were the Mongols, but they were actually well trained since birth.
Vikings were just barbarians with ships, no better than War tribes in Southeast Asia.
Comparing modern athletes to history.
In a word, Asian marital arts were more rigorous and developed in the 1700- early 1900s.
Shit like jousting and pistol duels were more popular.
Asians likely were much better with swords and nonfire arms at this point because they actually used them a decent amount. Samurai used sword in the 19th century a lot more than Americans or Euros. Granted a Colt revolver beats a sword 99 times out of a 100.
>>1288675
>Samurai used sword in the 19th century a lot more than Americans or Euros
>>1288581
BOOOM, is that an intellectual checkmate? Ball's back in your court anon.
>>1288581
I'm surprised you can actually type.
>>1285207
>Prime Tyson
Meme fightfan identified. Tyson was notable for crushing cans harder than previously thought possible. He wasn't an incredible fighter in his own right which is why he struggled against real opponents. His best asset was his trainer and the deterioration of his skill is notable after the dumbass fired him.
>>1285249
He's probably a buttmad fencer.
>>1289250
That may as well be larping. Fucking antenna tag doesn't deserve to be called fencing.
>>1289255
I see you have a well-thought-out and informed opinion there.
>>1289274
and on cue the fencer shows up to defend his interpretive dancing.
>>1289274
Mostly shitposting but really, sport fencing has many significant differences from classical rapier and smallsword fencing. The entire focus shifted from covering angles while exploiting your opponents to tapping the opponent a microsecond before he gets you.
>>1288810
http://www.tameshigiri.ca/2014/05/07/european-vs-japanese-swordsmen-historical-encounters-in-the-16th-19th-centuries/
1879
“In Japan, it was necessary for every man to carry a pistol; but the Japanese [with their swords] invariably got the better of every man carrying one, even when he had it in his hand… …I maintain the great fault in our swords is that they will not cut. Use them as much as you like, unless you have them specially sharpened the night before, they are useless. In the cut, our swords are useless in nine cases out of ten. The Japanese use two-handed swords; if we could use them, I should say cut by all means; for they never want a second cut.”
“On Military Equipment,” Journal of the Royal United Service Institution
cited in Swordsmen of the British Empire
In the main he is complaining on the poor quality of weapons issued to soldiers
The reason Asians preserved their martial arts was because it wasn't just about the fighting aspect but a tool for human development, like a spiritual system. That said the myth is that Bodhidharma (basically the supposed founder of Zen or rahter Chan Buddhism) came to China and encouraged the monks of the Shaolin to stay fit in order to have a balance to meditation. Later they actually managed to defend themselves against bandits and the like and their power grew.
The monastery (actually there were more than one) got burned to the ground more than once and after the last time most of the old knowledge was lost and the new one doesn't have much in common with the old tradition, considering the culture revolution etc.
>>1280869
Kung Fu shit was '70s, not '80s ya dingus.
>>1288810
Because it's true. Calvary charges were the only time most Euros were using swords.
Duels were carried out using pistols.
In Japan they still trained with swords.
>>1290274
There was actually a decent sword culture in Europe up to the turn of the 20th century, though it seems like it was in the decline by the 19th century compared to Japanese traditions which were still very strong at that point.
Still there were men in Europe who could used sabers and epee to effect.
That said no one in Europe that that time seemed to have an interest in preserving the methods of battlefield swordsmanship and pole arms of the 16th century like you see in Japanese tradition, because Japan froze its war technology in time for two hundred and fifty years. Even after the introduction of modern firearms some of those systems survived through luck and cultural reasons.
Another difference is highlighted in this article.
http://ejmas.com/proceedings/GSJSA05ham.html
Japanese teachers tended to pass down the methodology their teacher used with perhaps small adjustments In Europe every teacher tended to make their own pattern sets, with those of the previous generation discarded.
This meant once something fell out of fashion, it was essentially gone, even from the minds of expert swordsmen.
