Tell me about this religion
TELL ME ABOUT ISLAM
WHY DO THEY WEAR THE HIJABS?
Because in Islam they believe men cannot contain themselves when they see half-clad women, so it's the woman's job to keep covered up, instead of men taking responsibility for their actions.
It's a religion of peace. The only reason there are terrorists is because the West bombs them and occupies their countries. If the West had ever bombed or occupied another country that would surely have produced terrorists on a similar scale as the muslim ones we see today.
If you disagree that islam is peaceful you should be beheaded.
>>1261766
It's a religion for alpha men with conqueror genes, whereas Christianity is for women, cucks and gays.
>>1261806
Modesty
When you think about it women being big hair droppers covering the head makes good sense when fleeing from the enemy
>>1261814
Have you even read the quran or just been jew cucked
>>1261806
Christians are supposed to wear Hijabs too. They wear it the same reasons why Christian women do. They wear it to hide/protect themselves from the Fallen Angels.
>>1261831
And judaism is for special people who like poo & cp
>>1261828
China invaded Tibet and I haven't heard of a buddhist terrorist. How strange.
Islam is peaceful!
The only reason they keep killing and terrorizing in Europe is because islamophobes keep spreading their hate!
Just let them do whatever they want and they'll stop being violent!
>>1261903
>attempting terrorism in China.
See how that's working out for Uighurs.
>>1261766
Id hate to say this but i think this might be the only topic where you'd probably end up having a better quality of discussion on reddit or whatever other shit there is due to the current political climate around here.
>>1261903
>China invaded Tibet and I haven't heard of a buddhist terrorist
Well Chinese media isn't known to talk about this stuff
>>1261766
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9sYgqRtZGg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y
>>1261766
It's satanic in nature
>>1261806
Covering of the hair is a normal part of many pre-Islamic cultures and traditions. It's no surprise that it would be syncretised into Islam from the start considering where it developed and expanded.
>>1261903
>and I haven't heard of a buddhist terrorist.
China is well known for its open journalism, free speech laws, and unbiased portrayals of itself historically and now.
>>1262336
>Dr. Warner’s training in scientific theory and mathematics shaped how he analyzed Islamic doctrine. The first step was realizing that the Islamic texts had been made deliberately difficult to read and comprehend. A program, the Trilogy Project (see below), was created to strip away the confusion in the texts. It became clear that Islam is not constructed on the same civilizational principles as the rest of the world. Simple statistical methods revealed that dualism and submission were the foundational principles of Islamic doctrine.
STEMlords, not even once
sanctified sadism
>>1261766
A stain on human existance.
No better or worse than the other Abrahamic religions.
>>1263559
Last i checked irish catholics produce terrorists too.
>>1261766
It's a religion that condones violence as a means of solving problems in very specific circumstances, making it contrast starkly with Christianity which is absolutely pacifist (new testament at least)
>>1261903
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1959_Tibetan_uprising
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chushi_Gangdruk
>>1263622
Yeah, but we don't go behead every fucking protestant, they want their country back the mudslime extremists in black want land that is not bleeding theirs. Kill or convert is that they do, tell me when the IRA go up to the global shit flinging the shit skin mudslimes are up to.
>>1261831
this desu. Even Hitler said he wishes that Germans were Islamic instead of Christcucks
>>1263672
Well Westernerners( Amerifats and nominally their Eurucuck Lackeys) invade Islamic countries and then call any resistance "terrorists"
>>1261766
It's a different gospel about a different Jesus told to a man by an angel, and thus accursed.
It directly contradicts Christianity at the main heart of the gospel, and does so based on the word of an angel 600 years later.
It denies Jesus was crucified.
It denies Jesus died.
It denies Jesus rose from the dead.
It denies Jesus is God.
While it attributes many things to Jesus that it doesn't even attribute to Mohammad, things like being born of a virgin, being the messiah, ascending alive into heaven, coming back to fight the islamic antichrist, by denying the divinity of Jesus it reveals itself to be powered by the spirit of antichrist.
That they hold one of the villains of history to be the "perfect man" is abominable.
Only Islam and Orthodox Judaism aren't paganism.
Only Islam and Orthodox Judaism worship the One true God.
The difference is Jews don't follow all the prophets like they were supposed to.
>>1263683
>The Germans are letting in millions of immigrants to fulfill the Fuhrer's final plan
>>1261831
>this
*applauds*
>>1261766
Muhammad claims to have a vision from Gabriel, shares it with friends and family, and suddenly a large Arab population begin to follow him. The leaders of Mecca, fearing unrest, attempt to assassinate Muhammad and disenfranchise his followers. This eventually culminates in Muhammad's people capturing Mecca. Muhammad then dies, his followers write down his sayings, and thus Islam is born. His nephew, Ali, had his own followers and then there was a clash and thus we have the Sunni-Shia divide.
(most) Muslims are supposed to follow the five pillars of Islam, which are: Alms giving, fasting during Ramadan, making the Hajj to Mecca, prayer 5 times a day, and declaration of faith. Muslims make note of the jihad in their lives; that is a personal struggle against sin.
In the 1700s, a cleric by the name of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab made a pact with emir Muhammad bin Saud. Wahhab's violent ideology (Wahhabism or Salafism), would be supported by Saud's state. Together, they arranged the marauder of Shia sites and Ottoman infrastructure. The Ottomans bitch slapped them, and executed Saud. Saud's family, however, would go on to honor the pact with Wahhab even after his death. And this is where "radical islam" and "jihadism" comes into play.
>>1263707
Islam literally worships a statue of Hubal, aka Ba'al.
Literal pagans.
>>1263703
>being born of a virgin makes someone God
>being the messiah makes someone God
>ascending alive into heaven makes someone God (plenty of people have done this by God's permission)
>Coming back to fight the islamic antichrist makes him God. (God does not need to come down to fight anyone, he can destroy anything he created at anytime he wants)
If he was God, why didn't Moses and Noah tell people about Jesus and that they should pray to him?
>>1263724
[4:48] GOD does not forgive idolatry,* but He forgives lesser offenses for whomever He wills. Anyone who sets up idols beside GOD, has forged a horrendous offense.
>>1263741
Which is why the other 359 pagan idols were removed from the kaaba, leaving only Hubal there.
If you're laboring under the delusion that the Arabs worship the God of the Jews, I suggest you wake up, quick.
>>1263724
Literally never heard of Hubal, I heard of Ba'al the other day and that it's related to sun worship but worshipping the sun is obviously forbidden
>>1261766
>>1263730
>he was God, why didn't Moses and Noah tell people about Jesus and that they should pray to him?
Have you read the OT whatsoever? It's filled with multiple prophecies concerning Jesus.
https://expositorythoughts.wordpress.com/2011/02/24/the-promise-of-messiah-in-the-ot-2/
>>1263751
I wonder who could be behind this post.
>>1263768
God that people were already woshipping needs to be prophecised of to come in the future?
I didn't see anything telling anyone to worship Jesus in that link...
>>1263760
Historical warfare 101, this was the right hand thumb rule nigga.
>>1263757
Hubal was the god of Mohammad's father.
The etymology of Hubal was from the Hebrew "HaBaal", or really HBL as the Jews don't do vowels well. That god, Hubal or HaBaal is the Ba'al of the Moabites, aka Chemosh as recorded on the Meshe stele.
The Arabs have always worshiped Ba'al, son of El, brother to Asheroth and Molech. And when the Jews worshiped foreign gods, it was these gods. And they paid the price for it.
Anyone worshiping these demons will pay the price for it.
>>1263730
Moses and the prophets did speak of Jesus, every single time they spoke of the Messiah.
Moses specifically said a prophet would come, a Jew.
Not Mohammad.
And Jesus said that if anyone believed in Moses and the prophets, they believed in Him, because Moses and the prophets were talking about Him.
>>1263769
Go back to /pol/ and see if they can fix your jewdar.
>>1263781
They did not expect God to be the Messiah.
Even though Abraham told Isaac that God would provide Himself a Lamb for the sacrifice.
>>1263760
context, motherfucker, do you understand it?
When Muhammad said this, the Muslims were allied and fighting a war with TWO pagan tribes and two Jewish ones (one of the Jewish tribes betrayed their treaty).
And the word is not unbelievers. It's polytheists. Specific ones. The ones that were trying to wipe out the Muslims, who stole their land and property and banished them from Mecca.
>>1263811
This is shit the Catholic Church was saying as people were converting to Islam in droves because the Catholic Church was shit. None of this shit is legitimate.
You barely even have to know anything about Islam to know that this bullshit is top blasphemy in Islam.
>>1261814
That tradition isn't exactly from the Quran, it just says to keep modest
>>1261766
The one and only true religion.
>>1263781
In the days of the OT, people were basically damned by nature. To feel religiously accomplished, they had to make sacrifices to God and do very exact things. Jesus would undo such necessities. With Jesus, one only needs to follow His path to achieve Salvation. After all, Jesus was a man who was even tempted by Satan. Yet, He still was God.
Of course, you ought to be seeing this in an allegorical fashion. Jesus' story shows that mere men can achieve union with God. You can take this as reality, or you can see union with God as being a mere metaphor for enlightenment. Either way, the message still stands.
>>1263836
That Jewish tribe was not at war with Mohammad. They lived in peace.
They did not deserve to have their 800 men and boys lined up and decapitated in front of their women, and have all of their goods stolen by Mohammad.
Mohammad is a godless butcher.
>>1263836
Islam itself is blasphemy against God, as Jesus is God.
>>1263867
They signed a treaty with all the other tribes of Medina and the Muslims, and as soon as conflicts started, they warned the Meccans of the Muslims' battle plans.
They also attempted to fight instead of surrendering their leaders.
Sorry, in the lawlessness of the Arabian desert, they got what they deserved. They did not live in peace, and were about to go to war with the other tribes of Medina before the Muslims arrived and united them under the charter of Medina.
Stop trying to rewrite history. Even secular scholar European Scholars agree with me.
>>1263884
They signed a 10 year treaty and attacked during Year 3.
Sound familiar to anyone?
>>1263867
>That Jewish tribe was not at war with Mohammad. They lived in peace.
They broke their treaty with Muhammad and allied with the Meccans during the Battle of the Trench. As such, they aren't innocent and weren't peaceful.
>>1263871
Saying Jesus is God makes no sense, and is blasphemy, because either everyone is (a part of) God, or no one is.
God is all powerful, to believe God has the limits of man is blasphemy. To believe God can't eliminate the original sin effortlessly is blasphemy. To believe that God had to be tortured to forgive sins is blasphemy.
To believe a cruxification, a mild form of torture when compared to all the tortures mankind has made, can delete all the sins of all people across history, implies God didn't know about other forms of torture and is stupid, and is blasphemy.
>>1263893
Bullshit.
There was no treaty with that tribe; they were butchered and robbed.
Your "holy man" was one of the most evil people to ever step foot on planet earth.
Hell was made for such as him.
>>1263890
not at all. You must be making a weak (at best) connection to some stupid modern historical event.
>>1263898
he spread the word of Jesus across all of Asia and Africa, ended brutal pagan practices, and triggered a golden age of logic and reason.
Also, you aren't God, and passing judgement like God is one of the gravest sins in Christianity, isn't it?
>>1263898
>my holy man
I'm a Christian.
You do not know what hell is. Protip: it isn't fire and torment; it's your mind.
>>1263920
You think?
10 year non-nuclear "treaty" with Iran.
As Mohammad did not know that Jesus was God, all he spread was death and misery.
>>1263944
>I'm a Christian.
>I don't believe in hell.
kek
Pick one.
>>1263944
Revelation 19:20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Revelation 20:10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Revelation 20:14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
>>1263632
Rebellion isn't terrorism, anon.
>>1261766
>People ITT actually believing Islam is either peaceful or beneficial towards societal progress
Are you fucking stupid?
>>1263818
Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."
The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh).
However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):
>Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any male intervention.
[Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur'an 3:42-47]
>Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor had children.
>Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)
>Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment. Jesus (pbuh) said, "My kingdom is not of this world." (John 18:36).
>Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime but Jesus (pbuh) was rejected by his
people. John chapter 1 verse 11 states, "He came unto his own, but his own received him not."
>Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not bring any new laws. (Mathew 5:17-18).
>>1263992
What part of those verses says it's all in your mind?
>>1264017
>However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):
Mohammad was a Jew?
>>1264038
>"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren,
Mohammad confirmed to be a Jew!!
>>1263898
The Constitution of Medina was an agreement of mutual support and protection by the Jews and Arabs of Medina in preparation for the inevitable war with the Quraysh. When war broke out the leader of one of the most powerful Jewish clans, the Banu Nadir, met with the Quraysh's leader (in violation of the agreement) and formed a plot to assassinate him. When he discovered this plot, he besieged the Banu Nadir. They surrendered, and Muhammad exiled them to Khaybar with all their wealth and belongings.
Some time later the Quraysh besieged Medina. The Banu Qurayza (the largest Jewish tribe), openly supported the Quraysh, even supplying them with weapons and supplies. Muhammad then laid siege to the Banu Qurayza but had no idea what to do next, so he followed Arab tradition and turned to a neutral arbiter, Sa'd ibn Mu'adh (Shaykh of the Aws tribe) to pass judgment. He decided that their fighters should be killed, their women and children sold into slavery and their belongings divided (the punishment prescribed in the Constitution of Medina).
Get your fucking facts right
>>1263999
>or beneficial towards societal progress
Which is precisely what it did when it came around circa 700AD and for the centuries afterwords you mong.
Then other ideologies/social events came out and dominated - imperialism, industrial age, communism and so forth.
Islam had it's era and it was a great and interesting one no doubt. There are issues but these are more due to greater social events of which Islam is only a lesser factor.
The only people here who are fucking stupid are the ones who just say 'Islam is the problem' and only the problem with no introspection into the events or history surrounding it. You people are historically illiterate and ground in your stupidity.
>>1263951
>all he spread was death and misery.
As much as you hate something that shouldn't be the basis for being wrong about it. Your statement is demonstrably false and narrow minded when one actually reads a fucking book on the history and events.
>>1263717
Concise and informed
Thank you
>>1261831
Islam believes in jesus you dumb cunt
>>1263859
great post
>>1263992
You get it
>>1264109
kek
The facts you stated back up the slaughter of 800 men before their women, on the advice of this other goatfucker.
>>1264154
I don't know what's worse, being an illiterate mong and defending Islam or knowing how to read and still see no flaws in it.
It's just another abrahamic religion, even if it has some poetic writing style or esotherical narrative. We're in the year 2016 and people like you are still treating it as if is a cure for modern day societal ailments.
As a work of literature the Qur'an is nice, as a source of law it should never be implemented.
Why won't you admit that this ideology is turning every society affects into a quagmire? Name any modern day progressive muslim society that has a strong Islamic influence :)
>>1264270
> Name any modern day progressive muslim society that has a strong Islamic influence
Sweden
>>1261943
Fuck off you sanctimonious self righteous blind retarded faggot 4chan is flawed but it is one of the last bastions of free speech we have. Do you want PC socially acceptable wiki definition or do you want to know what people really think?
>>1262337
Christianity is a Jewish trick to subvert the white goyim, Islam is Judaism itself without the legalese bullshit and self deception.
Jews are the ultimate evil in this world and always have been.
>>1264291
Nice /pol/itical opinion, dude.
>>1261828
Except it is literally not the religion of peace. It wasn't founded on peaceful principles. Mohammed was literally was a warlord. He literally led armies, literally conquered cities, literally killed male civilians to literally enslave their women as sex slaves and I've literally said literally too many times in this post.
>>1264154
I don't believe any child of any ethnicity or race is born bad.
But children born into Islam are exposed and taught certain things that turn people bad.
Just like blood and gore aren't evil, but showing a young child blood in gore is. It won't make them a better surgeon or even a better soldier, it'll just make them mentally unstable.
Islam is the blood and gore of spirituality. Concepts that justify suicide bombing can be found in any religion, as a form of martyrdom.
But Islam seems to be crafted for use as a tool to manipulate and create religious control over people.
And who gives a fuck about algebra being invented by a Muslim a thousand years ago. The Nazi invented some amazing technology and advanced mathematics as well. Does that make Hitler a Prophet?
>>1264306
And so what? There was much more peace in the Arabia after Islam than before it. Sometime you need a small war to install big peace.
>>1264312
> The Nazi invented some amazing technology
> invented some amazing technology
> amazing technology
Like what?
>>1264332
The point isn't if it made Arabia more peaceful, it's that it gave islam an violently expansionist culture that has morphed into 21st century cultural imperialism. Mohammed is revered as the perfect man than it is seen as morally and spiritually righteous to violently conquer non-Muslim lands
>>1264338
I'm not the same anon, but they invented and popularized the concept of the assault rifle.
>>1263632
As always the muzzies had it coming for them.
Emigrated illegally and fucked up bhuddist villages.
>>1264338
the radar. automatic encryption and nightgoogles.
>>1264338
space rockets stolen by USA
>>1263964
>Revelation
>Taking butthurt fanfic from Christians during Roman persecution in a literal sense
>>1264154
It's an ideology from a very old world that didn't evolve. You can't be a good person and follow every mandate from Mohammad at the same time.
Imagine if Christians followed Old Testament word by word, it'd be chaos.
>>1264312
islam recognizes the blood and gore of the human condition and attempts to tame it while the rest of the world ignores it.
>progressive society
>everyone cheats on their partners and get drunk every weekend
literally only a strong economy and low corruption in governments are holding up western society.
>>1264481
religions aren't supposed to evolve because humans really don't change at the core level. Just because we have technology and science doesn't invalidate everything else that used to be done.
and that's the reason christianity is a joke religion to me. If you use hacks to change the game as you progressively reach harder levels, you don't feel fulfilled.
>>1264493
> attempts to tame it
They are literally doesn't have enough discipline to not be triggered by a pictures, to stop killing each other or even just to participate in serious science.
>>1264513
> religions aren't supposed to evolve
Well, why you don't stick with, I don't know, pagan gods like humans did for thousands years? It isn't like core of human being changed that much from that time anyway.
>>1264513
Humanity is the total of people alive. If all people change, does humanity change?
Outside of isolated groups we don't hunt wild animals for survival, we aren't nomadic and we don't consider sex without the purpose of procreation a sin. Shouldn't religions change such as everything else?
>>1261766
1. It's not a religion.
Go from there.
>>1263631
>Christianity which is absolutely pacifist
Don't tell the Christians that
>>1264560
christians are literally atheists that "believe" and nothing else because it's a religion that evolves
>>1264264
The facts I stated showed that there was something of a treaty that the Banu Qurayza violated. I'm not saying it was justified, I'm saying that when someone spouts horseshit it ought to be corrected.
>>1263992
>If you take the Bible word's literally, then you are unfit to read it.
>I-it's all a m-metaphor guys!
>>1263836
>When Muhammad said this, the Muslims were allied and fighting a war with TWO pagan tribes and two Jewish ones (one of the Jewish tribes betrayed their treaty).
>And the word is not unbelievers. It's polytheists. Specific ones. The ones that were trying to wipe out the Muslims, who stole their land and property and banished them from Mecca.
Gee, it sure is nice that the people you'r accusing of being oathbreakers who should be slaughtered for potentially the actions of a few of their leaders aren't here when you start making shit up to justify what you did to them.
>>1264564
> How can you change something that you believe was made by god?
Just change it. God created all things, not only an eternal things that couldn't be changed by human.
>>1264621
what do you change?
>>1262368
Nothing wrong with stem
>>1264560
Christ literally flipped over tables and and went apeshit over literal merchants in the Temple. There are clearly times when anger moving a person towards action is just.
>>1263992
>implying hell isn't the rejection of God and His love
>implying that there still isn't going "much wailing and knashing of teeth"
>>1264589
So when you read Aesop's fables, do you really believe a fox was trying to eat grapes?
>>1265729
>implying the wailing and gnashing of teeth isn't a poetic description of the absolute grief one will feel in life without God and His love
>>1265735
>implying the wailing and gnashing of teeth isn't a poetic description of the absolute grief one will feel in life without God and His love
“The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace.
It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire…where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.
It is a place. It is fiery. It is very painful. This suffering is compounded by the absence of God , but there will be physical suffering.
>>1265751
>'I can't think for myself or ponder the possibility that words in literature have a meaning that is deeper than face value' : the post
Do you honestly think Jesus talked about mustard seeds just to describe how seeds are dispersed?
Again, take a high school freshman english class.
>>1265751
how can I have physical suffering when I no longer have a physical body?
>>1265767
No you are too stupid to fully understand the meaning of those words.
Hell is indeed a deprivation of God. We are deprived of God and all things associated with God. Happiness, joy, pleasure, all these things cannot exist without God, leaving only pain and suffering, both physical and emotional.
>>1265768
At the end of Times, will return to men their bodies, so they may be united together again as they should be. Both in heaven and hell.
>>1265895
>At the end of Times, will return to men their bodies
how can I be returned to my body when it has been decayed, turned into soil which plants grow on and then possibly eaten by other humans so that what was once my body is now part of the bodies of other humans?
>>1265902
God is omnipotent, stop being facetious.
>>1265935
so then he's creating new matter only to allow a copy of every human ever born to be made, most of them remade only to feel an eternity of torture. how do you know it will be my consciousness that feels this torture and not just a perfect replica of me? it would be like threatening me by saying you are going to harm my identical twin that has had all the same life experiences as me
>>1261831
I wonder who could be behind this post?
>>1261766
It's a religion invented by warlords.
It's primary text is the koran, which is an obvious work of christian fan-fiction. The secondary texts which are equal in weight with the quran are called hadiths, or sayings of the prophet muhammed, the legendary founder of the religion. The hadiths constitute the vast bulk of the religion, numbering in dozens of volumes whereas the quran is a slim book that can be read in a single sitting. Most islamic traditions, like praying toward mecca five times a day, are from the hadith, but the command to kill infidels comes from the quran. Hadith are appealed to by authorities in the Arab world in order to hold on to power.
Part of the mythology of islam is that it immediately conquered massive tracts of land. There's no evidence for this. Arabs did conquer it but there is no evidence that they were muslims. Many decades after these conquests, islam was used (possibly even invented) as a means of control of the population. islam also justified various conquests, such as that of jerusalem, because it argued that it was promised to the Arabs by god. There is no contemporary evidence of a man named muhammed, the first mention of him comes decades after his supposed life and the first biographies over a hundred years.
muslims are taught that the quran is without error and unchanging, but older copies have been found with significant textual differences. It is obviously an evolved text and displays many obvious theological errors where it misunderstands christianity. likely it was an adapted christian text written in southern syria. muhammed did not come from mecca and there is also no real evidence that mecca existed at that time. The first muslims prayed towards jerusalem.
>>1266889
That's some nice Evangelical revisionism you've got there.
>It's a religion invented by warlords.
Define Warlord and which ones?
>The secondary texts which are equal in weight with the quran are called hadiths
So we're only talking about Sunni Islam then.
>but the command to kill infidels comes from the quran.
No, they come from the hadith, which like you say are much larger.
>Part of the mythology of islam is that it immediately conquered massive tracts of land. There's no evidence for this. Arabs did conquer it but there is no evidence that they were muslims. There is no contemporary evidence of a man named muhammed, the first mention of him comes decades after his supposed life and the first biographies over a hundred years.
There is evidence, there are references as early as 634 outside Arabia to Muhammad and a new religion. The earliest discovered Qurans date to within the time of Muhammad or just after. Regardless of that the hadith are evidence of Muhammad, why should they be discounted as sources for being written later, the vast majority of sources on ancient historical figures come from writings about them usually made decades if not centuries after their deaths, yet we all accept those, at least to the degree of believing the figures in them exist.
No, this reoccurring argument that Muhammad did not exist has no basis, is not widely accepted at all, and is generally only put forward by people with a personal bias against Islam.
>but older copies have been found with significant textual differences.
No they haven't, they've been found with spelling differences or slight word order changes. There is extremely little evidence of it being an evolving text, historians remark how unchanged it has been. You are pretty much making shit up now.
>>1266913
>muhammed did not come from mecca and there is also no real evidence that mecca existed at that time.
Mecca was possibly mentioned by Ptolemy, it isn't certain but it seems to match up. Mecca is mentioned in the bible but again it is not confirmed. The fact is we don't have a rich amount of sources from pre Islamic arabia, on anything really, yet there were Kingdoms there lasting for over 1000 years like Saba. The Nabateans had a great Kingdom yet we have none of their documents. It's easy for things to disappear, but ultimately, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
>>1266915
>No, they come from the hadith, which like you say are much larger.
The quran is no friend of the infidel. It's entirely reasonable by muslims to assert that it advocates their demise.
>There is evidence, there are references as early as 634 outside Arabia to Muhammad and a new religion.
i.e. after his death.
>the vast majority of sources on ancient historical figures come from writings about them usually made decades if not centuries after their deaths
I don't deny that he existed, but the evidence is, as you say, indirect. At the least he existed but the stories about his life are without much evidence and only the vaguest and most general ideas can be accepted. The same is true for jesus.
>they've been found with spelling differences or slight word order changes
Which is significant for an 'inerrant and constant' text. It was technically an evolving text by default in the islamic tradition, being written in bursts in medina and mecca, with suras being unordered in the book but able to be chronologically organised by muslims.
>>1266915
>absence of evidence is not evidence of absence
Actually, it is. Look it up. Absence of evidence is the major problem islam has in regards to its history.
>>1261903
Chinese media calls the Tibetans who self-immolate terrorists.
Anything against state propaganda is terrorism in China.
>>1266944
>The quran is no friend of the infidel. It's entirely reasonable by muslims to assert that it advocates their demise.
Friend? No, but doesn't call for the murder of all non Muslims, and before you go quoting specific verses, know that they will be entirely out of context and can easily be explained by the situations around them, they do refer to specific historical instances.
>i.e. after his death.
Two years after his death, so in those two years the entire Muhammad myth was invented?
>I don't deny that he existed, but the evidence is, as you say, indirect. At the least he existed but the stories about his life are without much evidence and only the vaguest and most general ideas can be accepted. The same is true for jesus.
Yes the hadith are only reliable for a general overview.
>Which is significant for an 'inerrant and constant' text. It was technically an evolving text by default in the islamic tradition, being written in bursts in medina and mecca, with suras being unordered in the book but able to be chronologically organised by muslims.
By that logic every text ever written is an evolving text. The majority of great works were not written in one go but over many years. Even a short novel takes a year if its to be any good. The meaning of the quran never changed, Arabic spelling did.
>Actually, it is. Look it up. Absence of evidence is the major problem islam has in regards to its history.
It isn't though, not to the point that you can claim that if there are no uncontroversial sources (and lets be honest, any source when it comes to Islam is going to be argued over) then something entirely did not exist.
>>1262368
Nothing wrong with dualism and submission to be honest.
>>1265958
Your consciousness will be returned to your body. It will be you.
>>1263703
>While it attributes many things to Jesus that it doesn't even attribute to Mohammad, things like being born of a virgin, being the messiah, ascending alive into heaven, coming back to fig
The message of Islam on Christ is this.
Christ was a prophet, he was not God. No man is God, no person or thing is God, God is transcendent. To claim a man, a prophet, is God, is idolatry, it flies in the face of all the prophets before Christ and the central tenants of the religion which Abraham worshipped. The reason Islam does not allow drawings of Muhammad is to prevent Muslims eventually idolising him, worshipping him, and eventually claiming he is God. Islam believes that humans have a natural tendency to turn things and prophets into Gods, which is the biggest blasphemy against the actual God. Therefore, to claim Christ is God, is the ultimate heresy, not Satanism, but believing Christ is God is in fact Satans work.
>>1267493
There are many people that claim that modern Christianity is made up and that Christ was a prophet and not god. They say Constantinople made it up.
