>if god exists why is there evil in the world?
>evil
>implying that's not totally made up bullshit society wants you to believe
There is no self-improvement without suffering, nor any context to appreciate the good things in life,
Achieving mastery and self-discipline via the wilful subjugation of the self is a central point of Christianity, and indeed many other religions.
The ways of our Lord are mysterious.
>>1257672
Because He hates you.
>>1257685
>There is no self-improvement without suffering, nor any context to appreciate the good things in life,
This would be true if there was no absolute division between good and evil and if your religion considered suffering and evil useful tools to be used for good.
Which it doesn't
>>1257672
BEcause God isn't the one who made this evil world, nor does he manage it. It is the handywork of the Satan, the Demiurge, the Imperfect One. He tried to match the greater Creator but everything he creates turns out ugly.
Everything material is his creation. He captures our souls, locks them in his creation. In a sense this is hell. Death gives us freedom, we return to that Paradise Lost which we all sense in us, where we lived with the Father, our true Creator. Reincarnation is however unfortunately a possibility.
Therefore, sexual reproduction was regarded as not desirable, as you lock up another soul from its divine state before birth into this sad and impossible world of tears and misery.
This was what some early Christian sects believed, rooted partly in the teachings of Plato, Socrates and Mani. This belief system flourished over the whole of Europe and parts of the Middle East (Armenia) between the 10th and 13th century, believers were called cathars in France, bogomils in the Balkan, patarenes in Italy and paulikians in Armenia, Byzantine Empire and Bulgaria. They were violently persecuted by both the Roman and Byzantine Churches, some small remaining pockets survived: into the late 15th century in Bosnia, they are the ancestors of the muslim Bosniaks of today, and into the 16th century in Bulgaria (last paulikians became Roman-catholic by intense Jesuit missionary work). Although in Armenia the paulikian sect Thonraki survived into the 19th century.
It is the only religion which really made sense to me, which readily explains the conditions we live in and our own nature.
The very fact that it was persecuted to extinction so violently (Inquisition was created to kill the French cathars, the Albigensian Crusade was organized against them), only proves that they were right: evil rules this world, and the higher the positions of power, the closer to the prince of darkness.
The task of humans is not to become corrupted by the evil that is in us
define evil
>>1257734
This is btw confirmed by Jesus in the Gospel of John: he specifically said that Satan is the ruler of this world.
>>1257740
bad stuff
>>1257672
Because humans are flawed
Remember Cain and able
The first murder was committed by the second generation of humans
Cain knew God but it didn't stop him from killing his brother
>>1257672
Original sin
>>1257672
God and the Devil are two sides of the same coin.
Isaiah 45:7:
"I form the light, and create darkness
I make peace, and create evil
I the Lord do all these things."
God wills it.
>>1257796
>creates evil willingly
>tells people to deny an intrinsic part of reality he created
What a dumbass
>>1257786
Satan is a regular angel in the OT. He is a celestial prossecutor, just like in SMT.
Were humans created good and later became evil (no longer pure, original sin etc), or due to our biological origin we were never pure in the first place?
So rather than something completely good reaching down to the world, what if we have both good and evil, but aspire towards good, while never having previously been in a 'good' state (and this likely doesn't exist except as a general direction to strive towards).
>>1257672
First of all towards what religion do you direct your question, secondly from what background / belief system do you come from.
>>1257672
>if evil exists why is there god in the world?
>>1257806
Satan's just another facet of God. The Snake in the Garden of Eden was the phallus of God.
>>1257786
retard, devil works under god
god isnt = good
god is good, evil, and all the other things anyone might ever imagine
>>1257967
>god is good, evil, and all the other things anyone might ever imagine
For example, the devil? Kinda fucked yourself with that statement.
>>1257672
>trying to impose our narrow-minded way of thinking on a divine being
>>1257672
If existence is evil why is the world in god?
>>1257734
rip :'''(
>>1257672
>If a zebra is on Pluto, how does it breathe?
This is what this question sounds like to me.
Why does God test us with the devil if he loves us?
If one believes in predestination, why does God even need to tempt us in order to know who is worthy of the kingdom of heaven? Wouldn't he already know the answer?
>>1257786
Is there any Christian theology that elevates the devil to this extent?
The only time I ever hear this are from non-Christians who think Devil is anti-God. The devil is ultimately subservient to God. It would be blasphemy to suggest the devil is God's equal.
>>1258056
>Why does God test us with the devil if he loves us?
Because that is the nature of love. He does not send the Devil to tempt us, but he does not make it impossible for us to be tempted.
If I was to try and save you from temptation, I'd probably have to make sure you don't use 4chan ever again to start. I'd have to screen your friends, I'd probably have to make sure you never speak to certain family members again. And being a sinner, I'd probably have to deny you my companionship as well.
And even if I succeeded, and walled you off from temptation, I wouldn't have brought anymore love into your heart. You would be lonely, and isolated, and trapped in your own sin.
This is a key to understanding the Christian ethical framework. A good and an evil do not negate each other. They are not sums you add. And good is ultimately more important than evil. This is the fundamental reason and purpose of existence. Goodness/love is so precious that it is what matters most of all.
God loves all of, and wants us to love, even those who hurt you, and even those who tempt you. We all have that person in our lives. Maybe it's in the form of drugs. Maybe they're an asshole and they tempt us towards anger. It can take on countless forms, but we love them anyway.
That is all the Devil is on a cosmic scale.
>>1257677
anthony fantano pls go
>>1258096
That's an interesting perspective, thank you.
>>1258130
That's an interesting monkey. Thank you.
>>1258063
And yet we hear repeatedly that God is everything, can be everything, is limitless and infinite. So how the fuck can that be, yet there exists something other than God, that God can't be, like the devil? Why is the devil not ultimately considered just another aspect of God, like everything ELSE is considered as such?
This seems like the perfect thread for Aelian the Aenternet Aeutist. Let's summon him, shall we?
AEUTISMA AETERNA
AEUTISMA AETERNA
DIES IRAE
DIES ASPIAE
AEUTISMA AETERNA
>>1257672
Because god left humans alone and we fucked up.
>>1257672
Because either (this first being much more likely, given what we've learned about our universe) god doesn't exist, or if for discussion he does, and is along the lines of what is described in a given mainstream religion, then he is, as far as any human being ever need be concerned and without any real need to craft a more technically precise phrase, I say that in that event, he is clearly /an evil inhuman fuck/ who is /undeserving/ of our worship, veneration, etc. Oh sure, he could part the sky tomorrow and go "derp tolja I'm real now bow down", and you might be obliged to do this in order to avoid hell or some other unpleasant outcome, but it would not change the basic injustice of the creature. And it would /also/ not change the fact that unbelievers were /right/ in their unbelief right up until such a hypothetical moment, because their unbelief was in better accord with reality up until this "gotcha" moment. The Christian fetishization, for example, of the "gotcha" moment is therefore a false victory, /even in the event that it is actually true/.
But as we all know, this is simply a thought experiment about fictional creatures onto which we project our own human impulses. At no time do we ever really, seriouly entertain their existence.
The appropriate conclusion, therefore, is to cease to believe in any god, and particularly in the god of abram (whoops remove foreskin pls)/abraham, as a moral, intellectual, and aesthetic consideration.
>>1257967
"Have you ever try to draw something, only to realize that what you wanted to draw, came out so laughably ugly, and the more you try to change and fix your drawing, the more abominable it becomes. But with all your effort you still continue, headstrong, whilst smiling sarcastically, because you ask yourself: is there no boundary to the ugliness I'm creating?"
t. Demiurgos (call me Satanael)
>>1258049
godspeed my beloved brother
would you stand before me, I'd embrace you in tears
>>1258185
lol
>>1257745
define bad
>>1257734
This. We are ruled by the demiurge and his archons. The Nag Hammadi makes it clear.
>>1258287
I would tip my fedora at you but it partakes of the evil nature of the material universe.
>>1258175
>that God can't be
Says who?
God delegated tasks to angels and a few are named in the bible. Satan is one such angel. That doesn't inherently suggest he's incapable of doing any of it, he's just capable of creating and ordering someone to do it for him.
Suppose in some distant forest lightning strikes a dead tree, resulting in a forest fire. In the fire a fawn is trapped, horribly burned, and lies in terrible agony for several days before death relieves its suffering. So far as we can see, the fawn’s intense suffering is pointless. For there does not appear to be any greater good such that the prevention of the fawn’s suffering would require either the loss of that good or the occurrence of an evil equally bad or worse. Nor does there seem to be any equally bad or worse evil so connected to the fawn’s suffering that it would have had to occur had the fawn’s suffering been prevented. Could an omnipotent, omniscient being have prevented the fawn’s apparently pointless suffering? The answer is obvious, as even the theist will insist. An omnipotent, omniscient being could have easily prevented the fawn from being horribly burned, or, given the burning, could have spared the fawn the intense suffering by quickly ending its life, rather than allowing the fawn to lie in terrible agony for several days. Since the fawn’s intense suffering was preventable and, so far as we can see, pointless, doesn’t it appear that … there do exist instances of intense suffering which an omnipotent, omniscient being could have prevented without thereby losing some greater good or permitting some evil equally bad or worse?
God is either not all powerful, or not all good, or does not exist.
>>1257734
>>1257786
>>1257967
>god is powerless and/or he lets it happen
Then why worship him?
>>1258479
>Then why worship him?
Why obey a tyrant? Because he's a wrothful nigga who doesn't take any shit, that's why.
I'm not Christian, but the reality is a god doesn't need to be nice to be worthy of worship, and many gods in history have been worshipped exactly because they're fickle cunts who need to be appeased.
>>1257796
Reminder that "evil" is a mistranslation, and "calamity" is the proper translation of the Hebrew
>>1258500
They were worshipped and appeased for power. YHWH is worshipped and appeased out of fear.
>>1257991
sure but the point is it's not "a side of the same coin"
one of them is a tool and the other is the master
>>1258479
That's not how it works
>>1258509
No. Poseidon was appeased out of fear. He will sink your boat if you don't.
>>1258509
>They were worshipped and appeased for power.
A lot of the time they were worshipped and appeased so Poseidon didn't wreck your shit. Either way, worshipping and appeasing a wrathful god out of fear is better than snubbing a wrathful god and getting your ass drowned by a giant flood or sent to eternal damnation. The rationale doesn't hold up that "if god is real and he's an asshole, why would you worship an asshole god?", so long as there's the presumption that there is a god it's pretty smart to worship the guy.
You can consider worshipping a wrathful god out of fear like taking life boats on a ship in case it sinks, doing something out of fear doesn't mean doing it is a bad idea.
That said, I think the new testament fucks with the concept with all this preaching of god loving you and shit. The Jews had the right idea with "god and us are in a contract, hold up your end of the bargain or he'll get real fucking pissed."
>>1258521
Oh really? Enlighten us.
>>1258508
Ra = calamity? nah
>>1258096
>This is the fundamental reason and purpose of existence. Goodness/love is so precious that it is what matters most of all.
Exactly my brother, this is the essence, the root of the meaning of the Greek work gnosis
as there were 3 Greek words for knowledge:
epistelè: knowledge from books
tèchnè: knowledge from personal experience
and finally gnoosis: knowledge from the heart
pre-programmed in us so to say
(remember the brilliancy, that the people who realised this were living in late iron age Europe)
>>1258450
Thinking that anything is separate from God is false, even the angels.
>>1258096
>And good is ultimately more important than evil.
Evil is good for some.
>>1258096
never change my friend <3
>>1258564
My point was that they're servants and tools of God, Satan isn't some opposing entity that's counter to God's will like he's popularly believed to be.
>>1258479
>god lets it happen
>Then why worship him?
god isn't "good". god is "power".
"how should things be/do?" is not a question christianity or such necessarily concern themselves with. they're about a connection with an unreasonably powerful idea. the thing about power is that whatever specifically it is you want or should want, a large enough amount of power probably includes it.
god is infinitely powerful so whatever you want is with him. this kind of certainty is compellingly orienting.
>>1257672
Because original sin.
You are born it means you are already a sinner.
The only way to not get sent to hell is to love and accept Jesus
>>1258622
I never understood this. It might make sense for humans inflicting evil on each other, use of free will etc.
But how does it explain natural evil? Hurricanes destroying lives, parasites eating eyes out, children getting cancer from random mutation. None of this can be justified by humans having original sin. Surely, why doesn't god make nature good only and let evil only be caused by other humans?
>>1258479
why does the fawn's life/pain matter more than the bacteria, ants and other insects that will feed and flourish? As long as the fawn lives the millions of bacteria in it's body, that rely on its life, do as well. If no good is accomplished by quickening it's death and no evil is created by it's suffering then what is the point in intervention?
>>1258635
God's ways are misterious
>>1258635
yes it can you retard. if you pass by a baby forgotten in the cold and leave her to die in it then you're clearly doing wrong. same principle.
people just take this arbitrary point and say "nope not my problem" and stop looking for ways to address or predict things. then someone suffers and they make up bullshit about not being responsible.
>>1258273
not good
>>1258635
This is blending pleasure with good, and pain with evil.
>>1258621
If god was power he would give power, but the only thing he gives is a feeling of terror in the minds of cowards. God has never answered a single prayer.
Satan is power.
Hail Satan.
>>1258657
Define good
>>1257672
Because there is freedom in the world, and because people are free to choose between good and evil, as are angels and demons.
The problem of evil is a temporary problem.
2,000 years from now, there will exist nothing evil that is not confined in the lake of fire, the outer darkness.
>>1257745
Define "stuff"
>>1258665
god made satan who gives you power
your mistake is being satisfied with so little of it
It exists though merely as an idea
>>1258622
>The only way to not get sent to hell is to love and accept Jesus
The original sin is ignorance of ourselves. We are all of the Godhead. Entering the world not knowing this is the original sin.
By knowing yourself you overcome that sin.
>>1258666
Yo mommas pussy boi
>>1258516
It's the same coin, the coin of power. The same exact power. Some people revere the power and call it good, others fear it and call it evil. It gives to some and takes from others.
I know this is not according to Christian scriptures. I don't give a shit about Christian scriptures. I care about the scriptures of the Antichrist, which is what this is from.
>>1258911
You're in the wrong religion. Try this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinduism
>>1257693
/thread
>>1258635
Sometimes, shit just fucking happens. No kidding. Cancer and other shit happening by random genetic mutation falls under this.
Other times, it's humanity making shitty choices. Hurricanes destroying lives? Why the fuck did you buy a cheap house in a FUCKING HURRICANE ZONE, especially if you can afford to pay a little more for a house not in the predicted path of a hurricane. Parasites eating your eyes out? Did you read the fucking sign that was clearly put up saying "DO NOT ENTER: EYE-EATING PARASITES IN WATER" assuming such a sign was already put up?
![apple-19[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/r6k3teu.jpg "apple-19[1].jpg")
>>1257672
Look what I just picked OP.
Want a bite?
>>1259039
>Sometimes, shit just fucking happens. No kidding. Cancer and other shit happening
But WHY would God allow these to happen?
>>1257672
If a reason does exist, it's probably the same reason they add conflict in stories
>for entertainment.
Just face it, life would be so fucking meaningless and boring if everyone was good and perfect.
>>1257672
Because God loves us enough to give us free will.
God, being all loving and desiring only what is best for man, gave us humans free will. Man in turn choose to use this for evil, and with that began salvation history. Throughout this history God does nothing but good. All evil comes from man, because we choose it.
To blame God for evil is cowardly, as one attempts to put the blame on something else, rather than admit man's intergral role in continuing evil in this world
Because God created evil. It's even written in the Torah.
>>1262338
He hates us enough to damn us for eternity if we exercise that free will he so lovingly gave us, too.
