Will we end up in a socialist utopia?
Since nobody described whatever the end game was supposed to be, by the time we get there we will not know it was meant to be a socialist utopia.
>>1242009
No because scarcity. We'll probably end up hooked up to some kind of matrix, which we could design to be Utopian, but the economic model will be "welfare capitalism", not socialism.
>>1242009
Yes. Universal income will be inevitable once automation takes over 99% of jobs
>>1242009
In heaven. Dialectical materialism is wrong as all materialist STEMtrash onthologies are.
>>1242009
utopias can't exist. that's the point
socialism being more efficient than capitalism isn't possible at the moment. even when you aren't accounting for the amount of work needed to transition from capitalism to socialism (which is a lot), capitalism is still more efficient than socialism at the moment.
in order for socialism to be more efficient than capitalism, we need better technology.
in a true post-scarcity society, capitalism is very inefficient. the question is if the technology needed for post-scarcity conditions is possible.
>>1242104
>utopias can't exist. that's the point
>>1242009
Either we go full communism or mankind goes full extinct.
>>1242104
See then invisible
Do the impossible.
>>1242114
a utopia is a place that cannot exist by the nature of economic/political systems. there will always be problems in development/maintenance that degrade it down from utopia status which is the point assuming that the society is stable which is very unlikely
thinking that a socialist utopia is possible anytime soon shows a lack of understanding of details, which is actually fedora philosophy
>>1242009
No. Even if we end up in a socialist society, there will necessarily still be issues.
>>1242135
if the terminology is the issue here, then don't use the word utopia. use 'society that has all basic communist characteristics' like public ownership of productive property and a low necessity for human labor.
No because socialism is inherently dystopian.
>>1242135
>it's not even worth trying because humans are fundamentally broken
>>1242220
where did I say this? oh right I didn't.
>>1242251
not an argument
>>1242291
Neither was yours
>implying Marx and Marxism in general isn't just IRL divide and conquer shilling funded by industrialists to damage unions
>>1242009
If everyone stops being lazy and envious of another.
>>1242339
How so?
>>1242355
http://mileswmathis.com/marx.pdf
>>1242360
Jesus, dude. I'm reading this, and this is some major tinfoil hat shit, goddamn.
>>1242220
Humans ARE fundamentally broken. The very fact that we suffer is proof of this.
>>1242291
Hi Stefan, how ya been?
>>1242634
Nah, that's nonsense. We'd be more broken if we were unable to suffer. How are we supposed to function without negative reinforcement for things that harm us? We have to FEEL that they are harming us, or else we'd be oblivious to it.
>>1242120
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgpytjlW5wU
no any prosocial (socialism) system requires the nonexistance of antisocials (sociopaths)
since sociopaths have spread their seed deep into humanity, it would require the removal of sociopathic genes or gmo humans to be prosocial
which would never happen
>>1242699
this maymay?
>utopia
Marxists aren't utopians, they're materialists. Communism is the "end of history" but
>Socialist
>utopia
>>1244162
Not sure why my post got cut off but:
Communism is the "end of history" but it's not the like ushering in a literal heaven or the 1950's fantasy of the sci-fi utopia of flying cars and shit.
>>1242450
Keep going down the rabbit hole anon
>The Trinity test never happened
>Gandhi was secretly a Muslim
>Apple is a CIA front
>Lennon faked his death and appears as a celebrity impersonator of himself in a 2009 film
>>1242699
what? sociopathy isn't a gene
>>1244188
kek
>>1242291
come on m8, even /pol/tards b8 better than this.
>>1244865
Selfishness is the natural outcome of rational thought
>>1244865
>>1246436
A pathocracy may emerge when a society is insufficiently guarded against the typical and inevitable minority of such abnormal pathology, which ?obaczewski asserts is caused by biology or genetics. He argues that in such cases these individuals infiltrate an institution or state, prevailing moral values are perverted into their opposite, and a coded language like Orwell's doublethink circulates into the mainstream, using paralogic and paramoralism in place of genuine logic and morality."
sociopathological disorders are caused by genetic factors
just like some people are genetically predisposed to schizophrenia, psychosis, bipolar etc
it can also result from environmental factors
some people are genetically predisposed to sociopathology and are predatory and antisocial
it would require the removal of sociopaths from society by isolating them and deporting them to antartica or modifying
Sociopaths control of every hierarchial society, and exploit it for their personal benefit and profit as they see fit, with law and as a tool to punish and keep the poor enslaved.
Their parasitism has no end.
>>1246998
There is a legitimate debate that malignant narcissists should be labeled psychopath and also that the sociopath should be labeled the same. The difference between the last two is mostly higher functioning vs. lower. One is more likely to end up in prison the other will be a banker.
None of them have any real human empathy but some narcissist have a tad. Many people have narcissistic traits but that doesn't make them a milignant narcissist. Aslo psychopathic women are commonly misdiagnosed as histrionic among other things. Just like everything else, the psychology field and diagnostic system is a fuqing mess.
Psychopaths have always been around and sought power but we may be dealing with something different now, at least in scale. We have psychopaths aligning together in a very large and organized fashion. It's organized psychopathy going global. I am not sure anything like this has ever happened before.
>>1247018
>the corporate entity is 'an institutional psychopath' and a 'psychopathic creature.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticisms_of_corporations#Psychopathic_behavior
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Corporation_%28film%29
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4ou9rOssPg
>The organizational psychopath craves a god-like feeling of power and control over other people. They prefer to work at the very highest levels of their organizations, allowing them to control the greatest number of people. Psychopaths who are political leaders, managers, and CEOs fall into this category.
>According to Dutton, the ten careers that have the highest proportion of psychopaths are: CEO/managers, Lawyers, politicians, Media (TV/radio), Salesperson, businessmen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_in_the_workplace#The_organizational_psychopath
http://www.mnn.com/money/sustainable-business-practices/stories/the-business-world-is-full-of-psychopaths-grad-student
>Before the Stanley Milgram Experiment on Yale students, experts thought that about 1-3 % of the subjects would not stop giving shocks. They thought that you’d have to be pathological or a psychopath to do so.
>Still, 65 % never stopped giving shocks.
65% of the Yale subjects showed psychopathic behavior.
Alot of Yale students even said they felt a rush of power, joy, excitement when administering the fatal shocks to the victim.
>>1247033
The corporation externalizes all costs and damages to the masses, while internalizing all profits. Corporations literally do not spend a penny, because it is the masses that pay all the costs including unlimited profit.
value is set by the externalization of all costs to the consumer. the consumer literally owns the corporate assets, but without title to it
earnings from increased productivity are not passed down to the common worker or employee.
End the concept of corporations. Corporations by definition have no personal responsibility, and the creation of entities who are wealth transfer vehicles for individuals who share no risk in the bad acts committed by those vehicles is one of the pillars of what is wrong with our system.
But it would require ending The State. The State created the Corporation. So long as The State exists, so will corporations. They are simply a vehicle for limiting the liability of the Nobility.
Yeah, sure. We just need infinite resources and to completely blot out selfishness.
>>1247119
Selfishness is a result of material conditions lad. If we change those, we can change behavior.
That infinite resources meme is unsubstantiated. We have a finite amount of people with a finite number of needs, all of which can be fulfilled with little more than a slight reduction in overall resource abundance.
Ultimately, all human societies are doomed to collapse in the far future due to the lack of resources, nothing new to communism. The key word is "far future"
>>1247033
>>1242120
>>1247018
>>1247165
>>1246998
>>1242699
>>1247043
so capitalism is a sociopathic system?
we have 2 differently evolving human groups: sociopaths and socialists
does this mean that humanity should separate under pathologies?
antisocials live in a separate antisocial society, populated with only antisocials (sociopaths, psychopaths). only anti-socials are allowed to exist in this society. all sociopaths get to realize their biological potential by living in the society that their biology is fit for.
prosocials live in a separate society from antisocials, with antisocials being deported to their respective sociopathic society. prosocials finally achieve socialist reality programmed in their prosocial genetics and biology.
>>1247532
Capitalism is as sociopathic as the people that compose it.
I think people eare just going on about sociopaths and psychopaths because these armchair psychology terms sound spooky. You might as well accuse capitalism of having an oedipal complex.
>International Socialism
>>1242009
mayhap
it's all about the means of production
the more people work for themselves and not for a boss, the closer we are to socialist utopia
>>1247578
t. sociopath
>>1247532
Yes.
Well adjusted normal systems don't decide boiling the entire planet is a good idea because it makes fat profits.
Also notice how cold and divided advanced capitalist European and East Asian nations are.
>>1247685
>Well adjusted normal systems
are practically nonexistent thanks to antisocials
>>1242104
>more efficient
What do you mean by this?
Serious question. Efficient at what?
