Why is the pattern with with Dharmic religions so overtly contrary to middle eastern Abrahamic religions? Dharmic religions (Hinduism, Buddhism, and more recently, Sikhism) have never seen any sort of rapid expansionism similar to that of which Abrahamic religions used to spread their religion. Sure, all religions, if not most have had their fair share of nut cases applying religion to further their own political interests, but in comparison to Abrahamic religions, there's no correlation between the two in terms of rapid expansionism, and a surge in sudden conversion among the population.
Daily reminder in the strictest sense Buddhism cannot be considered a religion.
>>1221824
Replace Buddhism with Jainism then.
>>1221818
It's pretty hard to believe in the guardian spirits of the Ganges and the Himalayas when you're in Wyoming.
Abrahamic religions have simpler concepts to follow for your average layman.
Also literacy helps rather than just being prescribed instructions by you're local priest although Christians did partake in that in the past too.
>>1221836
This is actually a very interesting and a good point and i'm inclined to agree.
>>1221818
The Dharmic religions don't require conversion to be saved while the Abrahamic religions do.
>>1221836
But its pretty easy to believe in guardian spirits of the Egypt and Israel when you're in Wyoming?
kek
>>1221862
>>1221891
Similarly the more geographically centered Abrahamic religions such as Judaism and Islam have a greater difficulty in attracting converts than Christianity which scripturally obliterates the epicenter of Judeo-Christian culture and turns the focus away from it although Catholics did seem to create a new cultural center for themselves with Rome and the Vatican.
Buddhism is growing in popularity across the world but it's complexity slows it's growth compared to fire and brimstone preaching of Evangelical Revivalists and Muslims which is good for attracting masses of followers.
The simpler and more superficial ritualistic forms of Buddhism that are practiced by lay people born into Buddhist cultures are less likely to be adopted by westerners who are more likely to be interested in the mainline philosophical teachings.
Because they don't worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob
>>1222048
But they do, they just don't know it.
>>1221818
While they are welcoming on many outward levels, the actual practical side is an initiatic guru lineage where the first thing you are told is to fuck off if you aren't a practicioner and to fuck off if you want to be one. Most people take it seriously or wash out and decry it if they do get in. It only attracts hipsters, so the pool of aspirants are limited. Also buddhists are anti-proselytization.
On the more public side, they are founded in very nuanced cultural philosophies and mores that prohibit outsiders from mainstream practice. The exceptions are radical tantrikas, which include most buddhists, or cults like ISKCON and a good number of gurus in the west. For everyone else that shit is hereditary and you are infringing on shit that isn't your business.
There's also the issue that they have reached saturation in their current form.
>>1222091
I have to see how you can relate the cosmology of kashmiri shaivism or buddhism to that of judaism.
>>1221936
>Judaism and Islam have a greater difficulty in attracting converts than Christianity
>According to [...] the 2003 edition of the Guinness Book of World Records, Islam is the world's fastest-growing religion by number of conversions each year: "Although the religion began in Arabia, by 2002 80% of all believers in Islam lived outside the Arab world."
>Ethiopian Jews, Sephardim, etc.
>>1221824
wrong
>>1222226
Is Confucianism a religion?
>>1222222
>>1222223
Ethiopian Jews and Sephardim aren't really converts in the same sense Christians in say Zambia or Muslims in Indonesia are converts.
They're largely descendents of converts who assimilated into the diaspora Jewish community as opposed to just picking up Judaism as a religion within their own community.
>>1222248
Including the ancestor worship, yes. Not including it, yes. It was also parallel to and syncretic with other religious practices.
Buddhism had a period of tremendous expansion after its founding and managed to work its way into China, Japan and much of Southeast Asia.
>>1221818
The rapid spread Christianity: one of the basic tenets of the religion as it is practiced is evangelism -- spreading the good word, gaining converts.
This has always been done for altruistic means, but also at times it's been part of a political agenda (e.g., in the Spanish/Portuguese conquest of the Americas, gaining converts meant gaining people who would pledge loyalty to the monarch, and ultimately the Vatican).
The rapid spread of Islam: not so much through evangelism, but more a matter of conversation under force: convert, or either become a dhimmi, or get murdered.
The other Abrahamic religion, Judaism, is much more tribal. It has never embraced evangelism and is to some extent reluctant to accept non-Jews as Jews (this is a generalization).
So... to lump all of the Abrahamic religions together as ones which spread rapidly is a fallacy, dewd.
And as far as Hinduism, it did undergo rapid expansion -- first, within India itself, and beyond -- primarily eastward, toward Southeast Asia. Its influence has faded over time, but you can still find ancient Hindu temples scattered all throughout Southeast Asia.
Buddhism? It did gain rapid expansion, whatchew talkin' 'bout. Look at all of East Asia. Started a few millennia ago, took hold as it spread, and now it's pretty much the only game in town (to the extent there is a game in town -- suppressed, to some extent under the current PRC regime). Though it did face competition from Confucianism, which was off-and-on favored by the pre-PRC state, because Confucianism has quasi-legal directives (that is, it often describes responsibilities that are owed to others) that be more readily be adapted into authoritative legal codes (consider Chinese legalism -- heavily influenced by Confucianism). Buddhism is less concerned with the specifics of who should do what. And yet it spread like wildfire, from India to Japan.
>>1221818
Dude..
In the 60's and 70's, people soaked up all that swami stuff, it spread like a wildfire of cults. I mean it got legit crazy at one point. Just youtube that stuff. You see people worshiping these teachers like gods, giving them their money, cliaming they'll do anything for their "teacher"...
I think it became like a competition at one point, a feeding frenzy, those swami dudes just came from over seas and just started gathering followers. People trying to claim their teacher was better than the next etc etc...
Abraham was the military leader and high priest of what must have been thousands of colonists and their servants. He was promised a great nation.
Basically, he was Muhammad's direct personal inspiration.
Same with Moses. Though it's more likely that the mythical Abraham was changed to fit Moses' image, if you agree with Freud's view.
European kings and emperors realised how powerful the Moses narrative was, and cast themselves in the same role.
And again from Freud's view, Moses drew his religion from Atenism, which itself was a desire to give the Pharaoh of an empire much larger than the Nile valley a more universal god.
Universalism comes religions founded in large empires and during migrations.
Confucianism is very tightly bound to Chinese literature and the writing system, so it's more of a "universalism in one country" religion, so it lacks the conquering instinct.
Caste system India automatically rules out universalism, except in a passive form consisting of checking out of society. The elite there doesn't care if its regional gods and ancestors aren't for everyone, so Buddhism lacks the conquering instinct.
>>1221824
No. Religion = life under monastic vows
>>1222223
>Guinness book of world records
>80% of all believers in Islam lived outside the Arab world
Really.
Birth rates don't count.
>>1222557
>mythical Abraham
epic meme bro
>>1221818
Buddhism spread throughout China, Japan, and SE Asia. As a religion.
>>1222583
the US is a shade too dark
there are less than 1% here
>>1222583
Not him, but I just looked up the list of Arab countries by population and it's 390 million in total, while Indonesia is 250 million on it's own.
>>1222591
Pew Center data indicates that it's 0.9%. That figure may be slightly higher or lower according to different sources but that color represents a 1.0% - 6.9% Muslim population.
It's the same color for Europe, Argentina, China, and Australia. You can check it with paint.
>>1222408
>The rapid spread of Islam: not so much through evangelism, but more a matter of conversation under force: convert, or either become a dhimmi, or get murdered.
Just fucking stop already with this shit. It's proven as total horseshit with even a cursory glance at the facts.
>>1222226
Not at all.
>>1222644
Most of those places are a stones throw away from the Arab sphere of influence, it's mostly population growth in said countries and not conversions that are the reason for the current growth of Islam.
>>1222048
*Ahura Mazda and his later interpretations
FTFY
>>1222557
>Caste system India automatically rules out universalism, except in a passive form consisting of checking out of society. The elite there doesn't care if its regional gods and ancestors aren't for everyone, so Buddhism lacks the conquering instinct.
This describes Hinduism and not Buddhism. Buddhism had a long history of missionaries spreading it to foreign areas.
>>1222091
>Buddhism explicitly denies the importance or relevance of gods to solving your own issues
>they worship the Semitic god
you wut m8?
>>1221818
The fuck are you talking about? Buddhuism spread to all over East Asia
Hindusim also spread to Southeast Asia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvFl6UBZLv4
>>1221818
Doomsday fervor. While modern Christianity/Islam are concerned about stable social fabric and whatnot, their earliest forms were in essence doomsday cults where the end of the world was nigh and as many people needed to hear the good word before it came or else they'd be damned. Christianity and Islam assumed their later, more modern forms centuries after this fever pitch period when the organization that originally spread the message evolved into an imperial bureaucracy to maintain itself.
>>1224298
sounds good
I think the simplest way to describe the contrast is that one is extroverted and the other introverted. Abrahamic religions told us how to conduct ourselves towards one another, and therefore how to judge and control one another.
Hinduism and budhism do practically the opposite; asking for calmness and peace to understand why we are aggressive and judgemental in hopes to pacify ourselves.
No doubt those in control will see errors in the other's model while those without control will critique their own ideologies.
they also learned writing long before 'us'
>>1221818
Why do useless things wither and die? Is that your question?
>>1222205
>>1224217
Basic gist of it is that God reveals his attributes through divine messengers and differences appear due to the different capacities of people in a specific time and place to understand God. Buddha, Zoroaster, Krishna, the Abrahamic prophets and more come from the same divine source and their essential message the same.
>>1221818
>Buddhism
>No rapid expansion
K there bud
>>1225266
Thats speaking about it through the lenses of one particular religious perspective though, you can't get anywhere talking about something like this that way.
>>1225858
Not sure what you mean. Why is a particular religious perspective not allowed to be discussed. It's not like further investigation is forbidden.
>>1224981
diseases spread.
>>1227136
Because you stated it in a matter-of-fact and objective way which is a mistake to do so because many people here don't believe in god.
Its okay to say "from a Christian perspective this is what our opinion would be on this etc" but when people come looking for answers about Buddhism and you give an answer based on Christian thinking it just confuses and misleads people who want the opinion of experts on Buddhism and not a Christian non-expert opinion on it.
>>1227204
I'm not Christian though. I responded to someone else and some others asked why I thought that. I responded back giving a very general answer. That's it, dude.
>>1221824
>he thinks religion has one definition
>>1222205
Is Buddhism anti-proselytizing? As far as I'm aware the entire point is to spread the word to help eliminate suffering, very meritorious
>>1224217
kek, ahura mazda is not yahweh. the god of abraham is a mishmash of canaanite gods you can trace back to sumer
>>1227276
So you're one of those people. Ahh I thought the newage shit died around the early 2000s.
>>1227773
No, I don't think I'm one of "those people." I'm a Baha'i and the religion began in 1844 so it's a little early to be new age.
>>1227505
Proselytizing is different than sharing. Proselytizing is associated with someone trying to shove the thing down your throat. Tends to get in the way of quieting the self when your focused on thinking you're the only one who knows anything. Makes sense that most schools don't encourage it, though they can sometimes go a little far in the other way. That's how I understand it anyways.
>>1227921
Every Baha'i text that I have read (admittedly not many) smacks of NWO "one-world" religion, religion of generic "humanity" etc. Can you prove me that this is not just another UN style generic religion?
>>1227921
Can you differentiate your own beliefs and facts/other's beliefs?
This is the problem with your presentation. You stated your beliefs as a matter of fact.
>>1228312
Sorry it came off that way. I saw a comment that I thought was made in jest and responded in half-jest, which admittedly wasn't the thing to do. Thought people would write it off and ignore it as shitposting. When I explained the viewpoint I meant to just present it. Looking back on it I could have been more specific in my wording to prevent confusion.
>>1227996
I'm not really sure what you mean by U.N. style generic religion. Do you mean something that centers on world unity but is light on formalized theology?
>>1221818
christianity and islam encourage their followers to seek converts through any means necessary, whether it be war, persecutions and if you're not powerful enough for that yet just making an ass of yourself in public. They also have a strong far element too them where their followers are constantly worried about eternal punishment if they slip up.
That's the real simple answer.
>>1228753
You know the way that every declaration by UN officials sound like hollow, generic, feel-good phrases?
I mean a religion whose every dogma sounds like a declaration by a UN official (or Pope Francis).
Our main goals are peace on earth, solidarity, children and the elderly... There are secular organizations that already do that! When I come to a religion, I want to know about metaphysics, about God and how to know and worship him, the ultimate nature of reality, the origin and the end of man and the universe, in short, the truth!... Charity is supposed to be just a part and not even the most important one of religion. It sounds like every major religion nowadays is competing with the UN to see who is the greatest SJW.
>>1228878
Jesus was a sjw
>>1228999
True, but roman and medieval christianity overcame the more anarchic and universalist aspects of primitive, judaic christianity, and basically turned it into a hierarchical indo-european religion. If people only adhered to that instead of the gospel. The Maistre said, without the church the gospel is pure poison. But now even the church has fallen, so...
>>1229969
In many ways the hierarchy was an adaption to circumstance.
These were brutally poor times and civil authority was in a state of terminal collapse. The church was the only thing stabilizing society in the days when Ostrogoths and Byzantines were burning all the infrastructure to the ground trying to destroy one another, and the only reason Italy hadn't been ravaged by Attila the Hun was because Pope St Leo the Great talked him out of it.
It's an interesting twist that in western society the church stepped into the civil vacuum previously filled by a powerful centralized despotism, and that created perhaps the first large, permanent society that didn't worship its chief executive as the divine incarnate, but who instead took the title "vicar of Christ", the word vicar coming from from the Latin word for deputy or substitute.
And later on in medieval history this hierarchy proved invaluable for both preserving civilization in the west and expanding on it, creating a network of monasteries which became universities, which even when fully sacked could be back up and running with fresh monks within a single generation.
>>1228858
>through any means necessary,
Whilst both were heavy on proselytizing and both had their means of doing so to say 'any means necessary' is simply gross exaggeration and false slandering.
>They also have a strong far element too them where their followers are constantly worried about eternal punishment if they slip up.
In fact in many of these 'conquests' it was more earthly and human desires (political, financial etc) forces coming into play than some head constantly peeking over the shoulder worried about the afterlife.
Your post is idiotic just like you.
>>1228878
>>I want to know about metaphysics, about God and how to know and worship him
No religious organization has definitive answers to this question, for all we can really know on this matter there may be a multitude of deities or none.
>>the ultimate nature of reality, the origin and the end of man and the universe, in short, the truth!
Science is a lot closer to finding the answers to these questions then religion will ever be, and we still probably won't know what happened before the big bang for hundreds of years at least.
Actually, we already have a pretty decent idea of human origins, our end is a different topic.
>>1229969
>without the church the gospel is pure poison.
This makes Pauline Christianity seem even less authentic and more snobby.
If anything it's radicalism and scriptural literalism that's problematic especially when you take the Penteuchal literature in to account.
Same can be said of Islam.
