>we want our freedom, leave us alone
>European country eventually offers independence
>whatever infrastructure, political system, education the colony had, it immediately collapses
>colony turns into 'random third world country no. 149'
>"well yeah, we don't have anything to eat, we live in favelas also our kids are illiterate,but at least we're free :^)"
>seeing their example another colony starts crying for 'muh freedums'
>rinse and repeat
Like really? A lot of colonies had roads and houses that rivaled Europe's in quality. But they turned it all to shit. The only exceptions from this rule are a few Anglo colonies. And would you look at that, places where Europeans still rule, the quality of life there is comparable to that of Europe.
Subhumans.
>inb4 "muh education and enviornmental factors are more important than genetics" meme
>inb4 "only 50 years of independence"
South America is still shit
>inb4 "muh oppressive genocidal regime"
look at China and Korea, colonized and massacred by the opium wars and Japanese Imperialism, still ages head of Africa
>whatever infrastructure, political system, education the colony had, it immediately collapses
the only infrastructure was made to suck raw resources and send them to their land, and other buildings to maintain order trough military oppresion.
>political system
"there is a king very very far away, he rules you all and you arent allowed to fight his rule"
>Education
what education? they were taught the basics to perform manual labor and thats it
none of them expected to end up being shit, they all just rebelled at the same time hoping they can finally own the resources, land, food and govern themselves because freedom, but things didint turn out well.
plus it doesnt help colonial empires forcefully drew borders and separated them so they fought amongst themselves, which on the future would cause even more trouble.
>>1297892
I agree with everything you said, but imagine Africa sans European colonization.
>savage warlords eating and enslaving each other
>Arab slavers
>that's it
The problem lies in tribalism. Even though Europeans turned Africa into an accumulation of rather large countries, tribal conflicts never stopped. Once the Europeans left, Africans went straight back to killing each other over age-old feuds. In the meantime they forgot to take care of the infrastructure, technology, ect. that Europe left them.
This is also causing the corruption, which is quite a big problem in Africa; politicians favour those from their own tribe and will put them into prestigious positions.
Not directly addressing the topic, but does anyone know the source of OP's webm? I've seen it so many times but never looked into where it's from.
>>1297898
a lot of african countries were doing well and fought off warlords (like rhodesia) until the cold war happened,the constant communist and capitalist guerillas, coups and dictator installments were what put the final coffin on africa's grave.
who knows how a non colonized africa would have turned out since thats a really big shift in history so im not gonna argue that.
>>1297904
I think it may be from Africa
>>1297904
Empire of dust:
https://youtu.be/A0C4_88ub_M
>>1297904
It's Empire of Dust
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0C4_88ub_M
>>1297892
/thread
It also doesn't help the fact that the Europeans never left Africa, they continued to exert influence over their former colonies by toppling regimes, forcing them to sign predatory trade agreements, and controlling them economically through third party global organizations such as the IMF.
>>1297904
Dust of Empires, I think.
AKA chinks coming to suck up the rest of the resources.
>>1297905
lmao
>>1297911
>>1297912
thank you friends
>>1297904
It's from the "Empire of Dust" documentary. It can be watched here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0C4_88ub_M
>>1297923
There's literally no one who even vaguely implied that you illiterate retarded /pol/ack mong.
>>1297923
how the fuck are europeans not responsable for how shitty africa is right now? it doesnt matter in what alternate universe they were free and still are shit, in this one the europeans screwed things up and all evidence supports that.
but i guess its not totally their fault, when all you know is dictatorship and manual labor, all the dudes with guns just instantly say "fuck it, we own the land" and then run the country like shit because they never got good education and also felt for european predatory deals, but that still dates back to european oppresion.
The worst is when this occurs
>"ughh Europe, you and your culture absolutely suck, and we cannot wait to be rid of you! never again we will let ourselves be ruled by whites!"
>some years later, Africa has regressed into the shithole it was beforehand
>"hello Europe :3, can we emigrate to your country to suck up jobs please :3, we would love to live in your country where things are splendid because of your ingenious white leaders :3 so please can we come over?"
>or alternatively, "sure you can colonize us China! we've apparently fought for decades for our freedom, but lets muddy that with neo-colonialism by China!"
>>1297934
were you dropped as a baby?
it really goes like this
>"it sucks that we are cant own anything in our own land, we should rebel so we can own it and be free just like how europeans always talk about freedom"
>"omg our rebel leaders just became our new dictators and are massacring everyone, this was a mistake, we need to leave the country or else we go back to slave labor"
and alternatively
>"hello yes im a dictator of some african shithole, i dont care about any of the people and i just want to get really rich, yeah sure china you can suck everything out of this hellhole i don't care if it makes everyone else even poorer"
>>1297902
The problems had many more causes and ethnic strife is not the cause but the effect such as strained resources.
Blaming the Bosnian genocide on just plain old tribalism instead of multiple causes is just plain silly.
>>1297886
You posted this on /int/
>>1297934
oh hell those fucking migrants aren't even getting jobs they just sit around all day leeching off the welfare while merkel actively continues to advocate for that open border policy European countries absolutely cannot sustain
>>1297934
>or alternatively, "sure you can colonize us China! we've apparently fought for decades for our freedom, but lets muddy that with neo-colonialism by China!"
Why do the west say this when they engage in the same thing but even harsher?
>>1297923
>>1297886
>this is what /pol/ believes.
>doesn't realise the economic and social factors which make Africa a shit hole.
>thinks that colonialism was a gid thing!
>the colonials wuz gud bois we dindu nuffin.
What's next? You're going to tell me that the white Nordic race is superior?
>>1297886
That basically only applies to Africa.
Decolonization happened because running those colonies was expensive and France and England realized it would be smarter to pull out politically while still hold a firm grip economically on the colonies and their resources. It was also in the middle of the cold war and both the USSR and the US had an interest in dismantling the colonial empires and later create, fund and back up insurgence, contras and puppet dictators in those countries.
>>1297934
Considering that China gives them better deals than European neo-colonialism: Would you not?
The Chinese throughout the Afghanistan conflict continued their mining conditions there uninterrupted. Why?
Unlike Europe they do not fuck their partners over. They are not benevolent, yep. But they do not pretend to be, and they do delivar.
>>1297886
Korea and Japan got massive aid from the USA.
China is still pretty shitty in large part of its nation and does shady shit with its yuan value as well as trying to delay the inevitable freezing of its economic growth and shit like wages as well as a potential crash of sorts.
>all this anti-white bullshit ITT
Kek just stop guise
>>1297938
>>"omg our rebel leaders just became our new dictators and are massacring everyone, this was a mistake, we need to leave the country or else we go back to slave labor"
They should've known that European colonialism were the only elements to be hindering their older traditions from being reawakened. Although African apologist may weep, and I think that Bob Marley's lyrics revolving around an Africa comparable to the garden of Eden, that Europe supposedly confiscated their traditions from them, the only true practices that they forbade Africans from perpetuating were tribalism sometimes, traditions of infighting, and more frighteningly Islamic extremism in Maghrebin colonies. Those colonial subjects ought to have known that in revering the Africa of old, these would the things they would relapse into somewhat purposefully.
The only blame Europe might truly endorse is that they were sometimes too brutal in negating freedom for those colonies, allowing only the most extreme rebel groups to prevail in the end (Islamic fundamentalist within the FLN in french Algeria (heh my gramps tortured some), or Mau Mau rebels in Kenya), certainly dooming those colonies to an unhappy end. Or Belgian forces assassinating Lumumumba certainly did not bequeath a gleeful future for them, but we cannot know for sure whether the Congo would've inevitably gravitated once more towards infighting due to their ancient ethnic disagreements.
As to China, what mong are you! Their most notable partners are all democracies (SA, Kenya, Caneroon, Nigeria). To Africans, the only trait to distinguish colonialism endured Europeans and China is that they conceive subjugation to chinese as less humiliating, because for decades already and since Badoeng, China has been heaving unto itself this false image of being a champion of the Third World. It's an outright lie but Africans eat it up and let themselves be colonized, all smiles this time.
>>1297915
>Muh evil IMF
Fuck off Naomi Klein
>>1297953
>That basically only applies to Africa.
Nope, India, the Middle East, Indonesia, Latin America, etc. are all varying degrees of shit.
>>1297943
Not even the OP from that thread, just interested on the responses on /his/ because /int/ is basically a white supremacist /pol/ echochamber
>>1297958
Like we dump our food into their markets to crush them, sell/donate expired medicine in trade, enact heavily unequal trade agreements that fuck them over, fund and support land grabs, support corruption if it benefits us, doing shit like funding stupid shit like Bridge International academies of organisations that are owned or in the pockets of our governments/upper class, use the imf or wb to chuck poor nations into bring our hoes etc.
What China does is not that impressive.
>>1297981
>As to China, what mong are you! Their most notable partners are all democracies (SA, Kenya, Caneroon, Nigeria). To Africans, the only trait to distinguish colonialism endured Europeans and China is that they conceive subjugation to chinese as less humiliating, because for decades already and since Badoeng, China has been heaving unto itself this false image of being a champion of the Third World. It's an outright lie but Africans eat it up and let themselves be colonized, all smiles this time.
Africans are aware of this though do you not read editorials or news articles?
>>1297981
I call that the Rhodesia effect. Destroying the moderates leaving the extremists to take over. Fuck the FLN.
>>1297988
Welcome to /Pol/ 0.75
>>1297948
Because Africans retort hypocritically to those two. For each neo-colonial "ploy" Europe engages in, Africans are all wary and sometimes unthankful. There were some interviews shown about Africans commenting french military participation in ousting Muslim fighters from Mali (operation Serval) and all the interviewed were spitting in France's face. Meanwhile, they entertain this delusion that "omg China so grateful! China so much like us, once colonized and now great world power! With them, we will be kangz again!".
The actions from both sides are appalling, but so is the African hypocrisy in its reaction.
>>1297997
>Africans are aware of this though do you not read editorials or news articles?
Where could I read some then? I can concede that I pretty much only read European, american and sometimes asian news outlets.
>>1298003
Perhaps because Mali experienced Frances policy first hand and not China?
Stop trying to make this a kangz shit sidea switching is common in places where both sides are a nit ideal but you need someone so you pick your poison.
>>1298012
>>>1297951 #
>>You're going to tell me that the white Nordic race is superior?
>The "Nordic race" consists of whites. Whites are superior to blacks (look at world history, white culture vs. black culture, ect). Therefore, the "Nordic race" is superior to non-white races.
>Your point?
Goodness, can you please desist from this retardation. I'm trying to argue a point that the woes of colonialism have been greatly distorted over time, but you're certainly not helping win this argument.
>>1298012
>The "Nordic race" consists of whites.
Nice stealing the achievements of other euros as your own. Let me guess, new worlder?
>>1298023
>Let me guess, new worlder?
Nope, German.
Sorry.
>>1297886
>look at China and Korea, colonized and massacred by the opium wars and Japanese Imperialism, still ages head of Africa
Yeah but then again, look who lives in Africa..
>>1298016
Like most American elections for example.
>>1298016
>so you pick your poison.
Whatever but can we at least agree that it's sometimes a tad hypocritical? I'm thankful that Africa is seeking out all sorts of measures to perfect itself, because I'm tired of them burdening the human race with their shit, but fact is that how they commemorate their colonial past is made hypocritical by how grateful they seem to the Chinese
>>1297997
Not just Africa. South America is getting sick of Chinese interest too.
And let's not forget Southeast Asia.
>>1298039
But they have a fuckton of criticism towards the Chinese and/or their own governments.
>>1298021
>Goodness, can you please desist from this retardation. I'm trying to argue a point that the woes of colonialism have been greatly distorted over time, but you're certainly not helping win this argument.
Just kill yourself. Defending the white race should be your first priority. You're a traitor to your people.
>>1298060
you must be confused, this is the History & Humanities board.
>>1298062
So?
>>1298064
its not the proper place to take your race war tard rage to.
>>1298060
>You're a traitor to your people.
Says the german that threw us all into Europe's ruin with their selfish and arrogant wars.
My country has done nothing but heave the white subspecies to their rightful place, while germans have had no exploits other than tumbling it down.
But seriously, germans /pol/acks are the worst. "Muh vikings", "muh prussians that had to be saved by Russia", "muh nazis that couldn't even hold some grasp on Europe for more than four years".
So you have no right to utter those words, and accuse me instead of being a traitor, espèce de Boche et de Fritz.
>>1298067
Yeah, but I wasn't talking about your country, I was talking about (You).
>>1298066
>dude just let them slander the white people, iz alright :DD
>>1298071
>I was talking about (You).
I'm advocating that colonialism should've been maintained. How am I did honoring the memory of Europe? I hate to be the one to disclose this to you, but in today's world, referring to "whites as the masterrace" has you lose the argument by default, be it on 4chan or tumblr. Hence, why there are subtler means to argue for European hegemony over the world than some racist ramblings.
Cold War fucked with them. America and Soviets was able to install retarded leaders by a whims if such leaders sign up unto their ideological brand.
>>1298076
learning from other's mistakes instead of attributing them as victories is what retards do.
don't be a retard anon
>>1298077
dishonoring*
Fuck this shit.
>>1298079
>implying white people ever made mistakes
>>1298067
I agree with him. Germans ruined Europe with war and another even more retarded war. You can't be more retarded that this if you care about the race.
>>1298077
>How am I dishonoring the memory of Europe?
By hiding behind rhetoric out of fear.
>>1298088
Of course they aren't! Thats why they need him to defend white people against... I dunno totally non-mistakes of the past and present.
>>1298088
they seem to be making a really big one right now by letting those inmigrants in
which is a consequence of another mistake made by white people called the gulf war
which was also a consequence by white people called the Treaty of Versailles
>>1298097
> Let's use arguments that doesn't work instead!
Better to show how I respect the white people than trying to realistically improve the situation, I guess.
>>1298054
If you want to see that just watch Terraformars you brat.
>>1298077
>I'm advocating that colonialism should've been maintained.
It was unsustainable.
>>1298026
You fuckers destroyed Europe, twice, you are just Africans with an industry.
>>1298102
>Better to show how I respect the white people than trying to realistically improve the situation, I guess
Yes
Other than racism as an explanation, which I don't believe, the main explanation is simply that they have very little experience in running their own affairs as a modern nation, so it breaks down. That alongside other issues like the usual rapid population growth, make it very hard to manage.
They will and are learning and stabilising and some becoming wealthy good countries.
Western nations are built upon centuries if not millennia of ingrained cultural beliefs about how civilisation should work and be ran, other nations don't quite have this.
This is why you simply cannot install democracy in the middle east, they have no idea, as a collective (Which is all that matters in these situations) of how to be a democracy. When one side wins an election fairly, the side that lost fairly, can't take it, they cant understand, and like a sore loser they rise up as a rebellion and try to have a coup or become insurgents.
The only reason this doesn't happen in the west is the centuries of gradual transition from absolute monarchy rule to complete democracy, over centuries, with enough time and pace so that almost every single western person is raised to believe, and does, to their very core, that the democratic, modern system is how we do things, is the natural order, even the most far right of us still finds it totally natural even if they claim to desire a dictator.
Nations without this extremely important cultural pedigree will struggle not just in democracy but also in everything else related to running a modern country from how to maintain a vast and complicated infrastructure to how to educate their children.
Over time, they will learn as we have, and too stand on the shoulders of giants.
>>1298123
That's racist
>>1297983
Not so much. On the surface it can look so but go and live in those countries and life is nice. India and Indonesia especially. They're not like central Africa, there are poor people but they're not even close to the majority of the population and it's not like they don't have malls and nice hotels and proper schools and shit.
>>1297886
>Muh Africa
Youre discounting Southeast Asia and Latin America. Which are shitholes but aren't total losses.
>>1298125
chile is already seeing massive improvements dispite tons of years of bad decisions so anything is possible.
>>1298125
Nobody ever taught China how to do anything, amd back then it was poorer, more overpopupated and ravaged by imperialism and civil war.
>>1298146
China has this myth around it due to the vastness of it, that's amazing and everything is well. The reality is that it is a wealthy country but it isn't much different to India, it has plenty of poor people living in near poverty, contrasted by huge cities full of a rising and expanding middle class.
>>1298134
Indonesia is less shit than what most people percieve, yes.
Howwver, consider that they were, up until the 90s, ruled by a military dictator. And that the political process has to exrend to a shit ton of islands, some of which don't even know that democracy is a thing.
Life is pretty bad there, even on the main islands. But not completely shit.
The Philipines is politically worse off and Malaysia is trying to reinstitute fascism. Myanmar ia slowly transitioning away from a military junta to... yeah, let's just say Aung San Syu Kyi is a chip off the old block and leave it at that. Vietnam is still communist in name, Thailand is several riots away from economic collapse and no one cares about Cambodia or Laos.
And Singapore outperdifies the eternal Anglo.
>>1298175
I don't know, having lived in many of these countries that on the internet would be called complete shitholes, my perspective on them is very different. Life is basically the same as the west, except you eat the same food more often and the walls tend to need a good lick of paint. Also women have to put up with vastly more shit than they ever do in the West which feminists all ignore. Even walking down the street is a chore for them.
>>1298192
I live in Singapore. I've known and worked with peoples from Southeast Asia. I've even forced to read the propagandistic drivel that passes for news in the general area and read as much as my interest held about the issues in the area.
I'll agree with you that living in theae places as a male is fundamentally not much different, save for the amount of cash in your pocket. And females do have it rough in places that isn't Singapore.
There's still a lot of poor and destitute people in Southeast Asia, and in almost all of them, you can see shanty towns and shit.
And I still can't believe the Flip middle class voted in a fucking dictator. I wish Ramon Magsaysay would rise from his grave and run again.
wow op you should write a book
>it's a "LOL NIGGERS XD" thread
Wait, you mean that the infrastructure that was primarily built for extracting and transporting natural resources didn't turn into large megacities after the Europeans left? Truly mind boggling
>>1297902
That's simply not true. In the case of Sudan for example, the British not only reenforced the old tribal system but they created a totally new and more complex tribal and ethnic system.
> pic related
>>1298523
Are you saying the Europeans should have built megacities for the Africans?
>>1298531
>the British are to blame for human nature
>>1298550
how did you get that from what I said?
>>1298523
>infrastructure to help sell other countries resources isn't good
Lmao
>>1297934
I have a proposition.
While all the war refugees are coming here. Why don't we just collectively pack our shit up and move to their place? Just fix it up and create Constantinopel 2.0 or some shit. And then when they inevitably mismanage Europe into the ground and want to go back we can fall back on the ancient rule of no backsies.
>>1298550
The English are to blame for everything.
>t. Scot
>>1297886
>rinse and repeat...
rinse?
wtf
>>1298470
>t. Self-hating German
>>1298088
they did make a mistake anon
that mistake was you.
so when will Africa finally shake off the final shackles of foreign tempering and colonialism and become less of a joke?
>inb4 when hell freezes over
>>1298696
In current conditions, hundreds of years
>>1298696
Actually, Africa will have severe warming and hundreds of millions of climate refugees
There are maybe four or five countries in sub-Saharan Africa that can reach or hold on to less than third world status, the rest will be utter shit, arid and desolate
>>1298470
>
Agreed. /pol/ tards always laments the loss of empires yet they never point out the obvious retard nation which is germany that ruined everything.
British and French colonies were better funded and supported militarily and economically because of WWII.
>>1298696
Next few decades.
>>1298717
I wonder where those refugees wants to go
I live in New Zealand. We did just fine.
>>1297928
Actually, most of those who ran the countries (at least immediately after independence) DID have European educations. Like, actually in Europe. The problem is, they were still a tiny minority, and can't single-handedly run entire civil service sectors.
The US, Britain and France also supported coups against reasonably competent leaders who were a little too 'socialist' for their liking. France also imposed massive punitive 'independence taxes' against newly independent countries.
>>1298039
Do you know any actual Africans? Most do not like the Chinese, and understand exactly how greedy and uncaring the Chinese are. They are cheaper and less humanistic than Europeans, the difference is that they are so desperate for exclusive direct access to resources that they actually build the necessary infrastructure to access it. However, they only build a road from the mine to the airport, for example, and not wider civil infrastructure.
>>1297886
>look at China and Korea, colonized and massacred by the opium wars and Japanese Imperialism
Korea actually grew BECAUSE of Japanese imperialism.
Same applies to Taiwan.
Japan invested more in the Korean nation during occupation than they did their own nation.
>>1298772
sheepshagger
>current year
>current topic
Wew lad
>>1298146
And China was a shithole until the '90s several decades after they had started running their own affairs. And even now they're backsliding because their housing bubble is exploding in their face.
>>1298026
>Germans
>superior
Why would anyone expect most ex-colonies to turn out well?
They threw together a bunch of people who may or may not of hated each other before that point and made little to no attempt to engender a common feeling among them. People accept that being homogenous in some shape/degree is necessary or at least highly beneficial in creating a stable state yet in Africa's case people are shocked that people who were possibly only united in their hatred of those who colonized them descend into ethnic conflicts or dictatorship after the colonizers left?
Most if not all of the governments built by the colonizers served as little more than extraction machines that were often corrupt. The natives inherited these systems (see http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2728287 for an example) creating their own corrupt extraction machines.
After the Europeans left things were bound to go downhill. They natives had little if any knowledge about how to effectively run things like a railroad because the colonizers weren't interested in showing them how to do so. Gaining independence during the Cold War meant any potential government would have to deal with the US/Soviet question. Neither seemed to care much if the governments they set up were good only that they didn't fall into the hand of their enemy.
>>1298088
Edgy sexually frustrated 14 year old /pol/ack memer who gets bullied in school by brown kids
>>1297886
Because they are populated by ingrate non-white (non northeast Asian either) retards.
What the British and French did in North America turned all right. Australia/NZ too.
The British system of colonies was in fact taken from the experience they had in Wales and Scotland and Ireland. For France, some colonial leaders were explicitly taking lessons from the settling of Languedoc territories, in the francization of Brittany, in the settling of the Levant in the 12-13th centuries or even in ancient times. Scotland and Brittany turned okay(ish).
In particular, it has little to do with the cold war itself. The only ex-colonies that went under because of the cold war are actually Rhodesia and Vietnam (and Korea as a Japanese colony).
The same pattern can be seen in the difference between Argentina and Brazil, in the events of Haiti, in Nigeria and Rwanda, some long before and in completely different conditions than the usual excuses for Africa in the 1960s-70s.
>>1299394
>difference between Argentina and Brazil
Which is?
>>1297886
>look at China
The worse China experienced were unequal treaties. More Chinese were killed in the Taiping Rebellion then by foreigners. They had the chance to modernize but failed to losing to Japan who unlike then had gotten wise. They had already gone through the long unification process and already established things like a bureaucracy. The shitshow of 20th century China could of easily been avoided.
>>1299394
>In particular, it has little to do with the cold war itself.
The US/Soviets setting up or supporting certain groups had a huge effect on ex-colonies.
>>1298823
France also stripped shit from their buildings like electric and copper wires like gypsies in Guinea
>>1298470
Your stereotype is outdated.
>>1297934
Deals get signed with the Chinese because they pay for what they take.
Can't say the same for European colonizers.
>>1299596
>The US/Soviets setting up or supporting certain groups had a huge effect on ex-colonies.
The soviet subversion and CIA shenanigans was very effective in some countries but it's a very incomplete explanation. If anything, because we see similar fuck ups from countries that became independent before the USSR was a thing.
>>1297961
>Japan, SK, Taiwan
You are right
>China
You are wrong. Stop sucking up memes. The Yuan has been overvalued for years.
Wages=productivity
Muh China bubble #75468 conspiracy
>>1298134
India is worse than Nigeria anon.
>>1300048
>superpower by 2020
>>1300042
Lol fuckton of Chinese officials and rich folk are immigrating because they know the system can't sustain itself.
>>1298042
Source?
>>1298052
Source?
>>1298159
Source?
Pic related
China was worse than India in 1990, and now is 3.5 times richer. HDI agrees as well.
>>1298881
Source?
>>1298903
>yen
I wonder what happened to the yen in the 1930's?
>>1299176
>housing bubble exploding
Upwards? Because housing prices are up 5% YoY.
>>1299596
>could easily have been avoided
I like how people make these world changing claims without any evidence.
Shit happens for a reason. And one government controlling it is extremely difficult.
Most of history is luck.
>>1300068
Emigration rate in 2015 was the lowest on record mi amigo.
>>1297886
Where is that clip from?
>>1300173
Empire of dust.
Most pics are taken out of context and the film is just plain okay.
>>1298026
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ztOV2wrrkY
fuck off you filthy barbarians.
>>1297886
>when your boss is talking shit but you can't talk back
>>1297945
>I get my facts from RT and Breitbart
>>1300074
>Most of history is luck.
And one of the things that make it interesting is seeing how people deal with it. Merely being lucky in many cases isn't enough to get the job done.
>>1297951
Then they will start bitching about NAFTA, completely unaware its apart of the same predatory system that exploited Africa.
/pol/tards lack the ability to think more than one step ahead.
>>1297886
>you will never be a chinese businessmen and able to bully niggers and tell them how lazy they are with no consequences
If the dude was white he would be all over the internet portrayed as the worst demon in history.
>>1297892
Yeah, no. Most colonies left behind tons of infrastructure such as hospitals, schools, railways and more. If you want someone to blame for the infrastructure shitshow, blame the natives for grinding everything left to them into dust during one of their genocidal civil wars or otherwise neglecting it until it fell apart. Europeans basically dropped what they were doing and fled; there's a reasonable point to be made about segregated services during the colonial period but that didn't mean anything once the white man NOPEd out of there and their facilities were reappropriated.
>>1301243
What is a hospital without doctors? A school without teachers? A railway without engineers? Roads without cars buggies or even a destination? They are buildings; empty buildings. Colonial powers in Africa and in southeast Asia did not treat the natives as their equals. The people that lived in these places were second class citizens in the places they were born and had lived in for generations. I don't know why we still have this thread all the time. The answers have been provided. It's not any body's fault save for those who had the malice in their hearts to oppress people in their own countries. If you want to claim genetics and it as your reason then go ahead but realize external factors can change the way your genes are expressed for the better or worse. Treating people like shit will make people shitty
>>1301243
>Most colonies left behind tons of infrastructure
They didn't and couldn't even if they had wanted to because colonial administrators were restricted by demands that they be fiscally self-sufficient and balance their budget. Large scale infrastructure projects that didn't have anything to do with extraction or the needs of the military would have busted that budget. So you get colonies with good hospitals but they are so few in number that they are of little importance to a bulk of the population.
what marxists fail to realize is that the american colonies were under control for far longer than the african ones, according to their logic USA should be shittier than all of the african countries, and it isn't.
Every colony where the europeans became the majority, the nation thrived, even under the apartheid were the south africans' crime rate lower than today.
>>1297886
Don't ask this on /his/ because "muh evil yuropeans" ask this on /pol/ where there's no bias
>>1301434
I hope this is bait.
>>1297886
Because getting your hands cut off for not bringing in enough gold is an enlightening and civilizing experience.
I don't really think you can say "Europeans dindu nuffin" and you can't really say "Africans dindu nuffin", both have some blame
It's pretty fucking hard to develop though when, even after independence, you are stuck in a constant cycle of US/France/USSR propping up an oppressive dictator and constant wars due to Cold War considerations
Even after we, the French, loss most of our colonies de jure, we were still de facto intervening in the countries in many ways to prevent development so that the countries would keep shipping us resources en masse
Here is a long but good documentary on that policy, Francafrique. Many of the countries really have not been given an opportunity to independently develop due to our interventions. Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp1J7T2YOVA
>>1299253
This
>>1301430
>what marxists fail to realize
Marxists believed that most of the cases colonial occupation had been helpful in modernizing the occupied societies (https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0Izh6GcIA_DUmFMWDJCNUhwNHc/edit?pref=2&pli=1).
>>1301430
Apartheid SA the stats were wonky because Bantustans weren't recorded for crime since according to SA they were separate entities (in name only).
>>1301430
>Every colony where the europeans became the majority, the nation thrived
That's because they had to invest in the fucking denizens in the colony and were held accountable to the colonial settlers there. Compare this to other areas were the couldn't care less about the citizens and had a budget that is more strained then an obese man's waistband
>>1300074
I'm not that well-read with LatAm-China relations, but
http://publications.atlanticcouncil.org/chinalatam//
Seems a good read.
Also, China has been very aggressive wrt territorial claims in Southeast Asia. China has also built the Three Gorges dam, which has reduced water flow throughout the Mekong and has not, in my mind, addressed the issue without fucking relying on Singapore to basically talk them out of it. (It's not working).
>>1301562
Also in the case of Rhodesia in many cases the official statistics just counted for the white population or the more urban black population which, in many cases, was better off than most of the rural black population (where you found most blacks). That's why it looks like in many cases the standard of living for people sharply declined statistically - it's not because it necessarily in reality has, the SOL metrics just weren't counting most of the population
>>1301430
What's funny is, if you think imperialism was a good thing, there's no reason not to just be a marxist, of the tankie variety.
It's the same fucking system. In Kenya, for example, you have forced labor to construct a giant freaking railroad to nowhere, then because no one actually has any money to ride the railroad, the government becomes insolvent.
Cue begging foreigners to come and bring money (Mugabe trying to get white immigrants style).
Things still don't work, so introduce a bunch of various economic controls, including setting prices you can charge for crops, granting monopolies on the production of certain crops, wage fixing, and mandatory labor service on public works.
Things still don't work and begin to fall to shit, and now you've caused an ecological catastrophe on top of it.
So just build a gulag and rely on slave labor until even THAT falls to shit economically.
If you really think European Imperialism was the best thing to modernize Africans, then be grateful to Stalin. He brought the same 'benefits' to Europe.
>>1301610
Oh, and I forgot, even after they fall apart, they work from the same playbook:
Congratulate yourself on 'peacefully dissolving.' Just shows how gentle and good natured you are.
Rely on nostalgia for how good things were back then! At least we had order!
>it's a person reads things written from colonial authorities that say "wow things are great here in my little area!" and assume that standard extends across the whole colony episode
>>1301610
>He brought the same 'benefits' to Europe.
And Central Asia. They built most of the infrastructure in places like Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, and Turkmenistan.
>>1301638
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T65SwzHAbes
>>1297886
America is an ex-colony, and look how we turned out. Best country in the world!
>>1301645
That is some top tier propaganda.
>>1301645
The reason Africa is shit today is because of insane levels of corruption and mismanagement. Nearly every African politician diverted national funds to their own pockets. Mismanagement was a thing as well, you had African leaders making grand constructions like big-ass drydocks and steel mills and then they just weren't used at full capacity. You had leaders nationalizing foreign business or private business and running it in the most inefficient way possible. You had too many civil servants because politics in Africa was based on patronage, you get this guy a job so he keeps supporting you, stuff like that.
This has absolutely nothing to do with race. The point is the educated Africans were denied wealth and privileges and so when they rose to government, they were anxious to acquire a lifestyle that they thought they deserved. Couple that with the tribal mentality of helping one's own (family /tribe) and you have the stage set for massive corruption.
>>1301645
I recommend people check out “Africa's Armies: From Honor To Infamy A History From 1791 To The Present”.
Some interesting notes from the book:
Angola, Ethiopia and Eritrea, Mozambique, Nigeria, Sengal, and Zaire were ravaged by civil warfare soon after independence. Other nations like Burundi, Chad, Congo, Djibouti, Liberia, Rwanda, Sierra Leone, Sudan, Uganda, and Zaire had civil wars still waging in 1992.
Only five of the fifty four governments in Sub Saharan Africa have not had their government seized by a military dictator.
Ghana was the first country in Africa to achieve independence and it was relatively prosperous growing economy until Nkrumah went full socialist going so hard on industrial development (most of which failed) that he almost completely neglected agricultural production. A long series of coups followed.
Founded by ex-slaves Liberia was once one of the most prosperous, peaceful, and stable countries. Though said ex-slaves made up only 2% of the population they ruled the country until 1980. Corruption, ethic tensions (ex-slaves treated the natives poorly), and brutal authoritarianism did it in.
Julius Nyerere was one of the few African leaders that weren't known for corruption. His policies improved the lot of the common man to some degree but also set the stage for massive corruption after he was gone through his Ujamaa polices.
In Nigeria the practice of police corruption is so institutionalized that the police even give change.
>>1297898
That's bullshit though. Africa would have westernized just like the rest of the world. They had no more access to European technology nor ideas while being exploited by European colonialism than they would have if Europeans were simply equitably trading for Africa's goods. Quite the contrary.
>>1301798
Nkrumah did have help but his biggest flaws was kowtowing to powerful people and interests in the nation which hindered industrial development.
A factory nearby a farm would be ideal but to get support he had to place that farm in a location to the group or person her is doing favours for so you had big distances between two building or things that should be very close.
You can say those people demanding him to place stuff near them is kinda greedy but it makes sense once you think about it. You wouldn't want to be left out of modernization when all the useful infrastructure and tech is placed in one location while your people receive little and are lagging behind.
>>1299394
please expand upon this point, I find it really fascinating.
>>1297928
>in this one the europeans screwed things up and all evidence supports that.
Yeah, Rhodesia/Zimbabwe turning from a breadbasket into a country threatened by famine after kicking the Europeans out certainly supports that.
>>1297886
That's why
>>1298054
An eagle and a fucking hummingbird with the retarded alt-right stone lying at the bottom of some pile of shit*
>>1301169
There's almost never a group of powerful people that can influence history in the exact direction they desire.
Hence, it is practically impossible to just claim "China should have done better."
The question really way, could they have done better?
History happens for a reason. Trying to argue that it could have happened differently is nearly impossible to prove.
>>1301603
>I'm not well-versed
Obviously.
Third worlders see China like they saw America in 1980. A new alien group with a lot of money and power in their third world shithole. So not everyone is happy, but the smart ones in power realize they need the Americans/Chinese.
Also, Argentina is housing a Chinese satellite relay base. Venezuela is dependent on China. Brazil is heavily invested in by China. Chile's economy is literally Chinese. Most of Central America has extensive economic relations with China.
So yeah, there is some bad blood among those who now have to compete with the (more efficient) Chinese. But it is nothing compared to the economic and political connections.
>3GD
>Mekong delta
No.
And the proposed damns on the Mekong river were just canceled.
>>1297892
>the only infrastructure was made to suck raw resources and send them to their land, and other buildings to maintain order trough military oppresion.
Who cares why the infrastructure was built ? The fact it was built and they could have kept it.
>"there is a king very very far away, he rules you all and you arent allowed to fight his rule"
better than african warlords
>what education? they were taught the basics to perform manual labor and thats it
better than what they had before
>plus it doesnt help colonial empires forcefully drew borders and separated them so they fought amongst themselves, which on the future would cause even more trouble.
What should they have done ? "ok go ahead guys draw your own borders now" ? They'd never agree with each other it would have ended in a fucking bloodbath
>>1303490
>le jewish explanation of history maymay
>>1300029
lel you really are naive, of course they paid, they paid gold to the african leaders who then willfully sold the people and the land
btw i am myself from a country which is getting sold to the chinese, it's the same
of course they pay, but it's not much in the grand scheme of things
>>1301313
>The people that lived in these places were second class citizens in the places they were born and had lived in for generations.[...] It's not any body's fault save for those who had the malice in their hearts to oppress people in their own countries.
it's funny this is exactly how i feel as an european living in europe
(obviously it's my fault, i personally gassed all the jews, enslaved all the blacks and colonized all the world, i totally deserve it)
>Treating people like shit will make people shitty
yup this is why i vote fn fuck you too
>>1303528
>Trying to argue that it could have happened differently is nearly impossible to prove.
Its easy to argue that things could have turned out differently if X happened. It would be impossible to prove that if X happened it would lead to outcome Y because all the other factors in play.
>>1301524
Modern marxists then,
ie apologetic cultural anti-western marxists that wants equality, as long as it benefits them, but any equality which could be negative for them is not equality, like the draft for women (which they so violently oppose, while shouting about equality an hour before), and then shouts about feminism, while they want mass immigration of uncivilized barbarians which would like nothing more but to kill those same people which wants to import them, and then write on their iphone about how shitty western civilization is, that's what modern marxists are
>>1297958
When was the last time China took a specific side in these international affairs? 1960s? These days they're just trying to make a profit.
>>1303662
>Who cares why the infrastructure was built ? The fact it was built and they could have kept it.
And maintaining that infrastructure costs a fuckton of moment that many countries could not afford.
>better than african warlords
Yet the things enacted during colonial rule were fucked up and in many cases much more fucked up then what a warlord can do. Also not every single African ruler was a fucking warlord.
>What should they have done ? "ok go ahead guys draw your own borders now" ? They'd never agree with each other it would have ended in a fucking bloodbath
The colonial authorities never fostered a national identity at all within the colony. Alongside that there are many groups that are completely fine with living near each other because they had political ties before colonial period.
>>1303686
>FN
Have fun voting a party that has no strategy outside some few issues.
Also how the fuck are Europeans 2nd class citizens in Europe lol drop that persecution complex boy it's fucking with your mind.
>>1303480
-Whites were leaving before the farm evictions but many stayed. The vast majority left not because of the farm evictions but because if lack of confidence in the economy of the country.
-Only complete retards think the majority of Zimbabwean whites were farmers.
-Zimbabwe's finances went to shit because of bad economic policies in the 2000's.
-Current climate conditions would still have fucked those farmers either way but that's just climate change being climate change.
>>1297928
>how the fuck are the umayyads not responsible for current spain
Most peoples' in history have been under foreign rule, yet apologetic fags like you come along and scream about how terrible it was that sub-saharan africa recieved a dose of civilization during the colonial era
>>1305094
Are you comparing the form of Umayyad rule to colonial administration? I suggest you educate yourself on how the Islamic Spain worked, at least from a governance standpoint. They are not remotely comparable.
You're also comparing over vastly different time scales, how the fuck can you compare ruling that ended over 500 years ago to something that ended in the last 50-70 years?
>>1303665
>le jared diamond is wrong because of reasons I can't provide meme
>>1297951
>its the "economic and social factors" are infallible and immutable forces that a people are powerless in the face of
>everyone is innocent and these sentient "social factors" keep them unendingly repressed and there's nothing anyone can do about it ever
>>1297886
I can assume that you are a retard. But well...
The answer - extended to the process of decolonization after World War II - lies in a mix of parasitic socialist politics and ignorant and culturally primitive populations.
The natural result is a dysfunctional economy, absence of the rule of law, and the complete institutional failure of the country.
Not that colonialism was good - nor worked. But the protectionist and restrictive practices of the past have lost their almost infinite funding with the independence of the colonies.
>>1305393
>culturally primitive population
>culturally
You can drop the pretense, they are intrinsecally and genetically inferior.
>>1306393
Shilling hard aren't we, /pol/ster?
That pseudoscience doesn't fly here. Nor has it anywhere important in the west for a while now. Why do your ilk exalt the west, but ignore its scientific achievements when they don't suit you?
>>1306393
Nah anon it's culture.
Turkic people leaving in the post-soviet ~stans is genetically close to Mongols. Those Turkic people are all islamic while Mongols aren't and when you look at their average IQ's, Mongolia has it's as one of the highest in the world while in ~stans have it just a little bit higher than India(where there's enormous brain drain going on, hence all the Pajeets in IT).
>>1297886
It's because they didn't revolt hard enough. Look at what happened in America. There were enough Enlightenment era people around for long enough in the inception of the country that it was able to spark it's own mental stimulation. By the time most of these other countries were granted independence, all those enlightenment ideas had gone.
>>1306406
yeah caucasoid people all have about the same average genetic potential, but subsharan africans have a mean IQ of 85 even when they are born and raised in rich western countries and have access to first world education.
if you had to make a bet at even odds on whether subsaharan africans had the higher natural IQ as caucasoid people or whether they had lower natural IQ , which would you really choose if you didn't want to lose your money?
>>1306430
ok then /pol/ster tell us all how you would go about building and running an entire nation then go ahead i will wait
>>1297886
but many of the french ex-colonies are doing just fine?
>>1306498
Dude what? The former English colonies are doing way better
>>1306509
>SA
>>1297886
>colony turns into 'random third world country no. 149'
You mean "random former European colony no.149" ? Because basically the entire Third World was born from decolonization.
>>1306511
What's wrong with it? It'd have a great HDI/GDP if it wasn't for HIV and violence.
Made pic related a couple of weeks ago
>>1306519
I figure B is belgium but what the hell is I?
>>1306511
Better than the average Subsaharan French colony.
>>1306527
Whoops forgot the chart legend, it's Italy, P is for Portugal.
>>1297886
He must be pretty damn pissed and agreed with that Chinese man at the same time
At this point, the meme of Subsaharan African underdevelopment is increasingly undeserved, and colonialism ended so long ago that its legacy is less significant than each country's recent history and choices, not to mention its resources.
I mean, look at these selected rankings in GDP per capita:
Mexico 10,326
Gabon 10,317
Turkey 10,299
Romania 10,129
Mauritius 9,945
Lebanon 8,844
Bulgaria 7,876
China 7,617
Cuba 7,274
Botswana 7,123
Peru 6,516
South Africa 6,223
Dominican Republic 6,147
Serbia 6,115
Angola 6,054
Thailand 5,977
Namibia 5,589
Algeria 5,484
Iran 5,443
Jamaica 5,004
Bosnia and Herzegovina 4,844
Jordan 4,831
Albania 4,642
Tunisia 4,261
Swaziland 3,532
Indonesia 3,492
Morocco 3,243
Congo, Republic of the 3,125
Bolivia 3,124
Nigeria 3,203
Philippines 2,871
Sudan 2,081
Vietnam 2,015
Moldova 1,951
Djibouti 1,814
Laos 1,756
Zambia 1,715
India 1,586
Côte d'Ivoire 1,546
Cameroon 1,407
Ghana 1,38
Pakistan 1,561
Kenya 1,358
Mauritania 1,283
Cambodia 1,095
Bangladesh 1,088
Senegal 1,067
I've purposefully avoided current warzones like Iraq, Libya, Syria, Ukraine...
What pattern do you see, exactly, besides that everyone who ended up on the wrong side in the Cold War or failed to Westernize got shafted and political instability is bad for business?
>>1306838
What is true is that a group of Subsaharan African countries make up the bottom of the barrel in terms of GDP per capita, HDI etc (along with a couple of Asian shitholes like Afghanistan and Nepal), but the idea that all Subsaharan African countries are significantly underdeveloped compared to anyone else is just false. Some SSA countries do better than North Africa, South and Southeast Asia, or even the poorer half of Eastern Europe.
>>1300376
They don't work though. Eurostat has their employment rate in say, Sweden, at barely 50% BEFORE the recent influx.
>>1297886
>Why are European ex-colonies so retarded?
>Subhumans.
>genetics
Why ask a question if you know the answers?
I like this thread.
The bell curve happened.
And 85 is for african americans, subsahara africa mostly has a mean of 70.
In the western world 70 is the border to retardation.
You know, everytime liberals cry a "mentally retarded" person gets executed they mean that his IQ is 70 or lower.
>>1306838
Many cold war western supported places in Africa are pretty bad though
>>1306406
Mongolian iq stats are erroneous and derived from faulty sources.
>>1301798
Curious because Ethiopia and Eritrea were united after Italians left and there was no civil war as far as I know, at least not until 1975 when Menghistu took power.
>>1307204
Debunked.
>>1307030
>>1307759
>Mongolian iq stats are erroneous and derived from faulty sources.
Prove it, because both IQ studies and actual genetics show that Mongols (Khalkh) should be quite intelligent like other Northeast Asians, and the same mistakes (in both IQ and genetics studies, remember) are mysteriously repeated for other non-Han, non-Korean and non-Japanese ethnic minorities in Northeast Asia such as the Daur.
>>1307926
If Mongolia is so high IQ why is it so shit?
>>1307981
Dunno, I'm not a IQ-supremacist. I'm just telling you the objective truth.
50 years ago you could have asked "if East Asian IQ is so high why is it so shit?"
>>1307990
Korea's IQ back then was dogshit back then though
>>1297886
This only happens if they're not white
>>1306838
they just love killing each other
