how would you rate this?
>"holy" "roman" "empire"/10
>>1203013
meme yourself to death
I will shoot any motherfucker that will use quatation mark or memearrow.
>>1202947
>how would you rate this?
expensive/10.
Why does it have to be so much?
>>1203370
dunno, i just wanna know if it's worth the price
>>1203402
>dunno, i just wanna know if it's worth the price
Have read his book Europe's Tragedy: A New History of the Thirty's Year War?
It's good, but my god, is it DENSE.
>>1203413
does dense mean detailed as hell in this sense?
>>1203438
Yes. The dude goes into super autistic detail. It's fantastic.
>>1203452
i hope his HRE will be similar in detail
>
>>1203492
kys
the what what what?
>>1204394
Holy Roman Empire you egotistical frog. Yes the way it exists in your lifetime might not be any sort of actual holy Roman entity, but that doesn't mean it never was, and besides to dismiss an entire state based on literal meme arguments is retarded. God I hate you so much.
>>1203356
oh shit dude sorry
>>1203370
Only £20 on amazon uk.
HOLY
>the kaiser was sanctioned by the pope
>the papal states were a part of the reich for a long time
>protector of christendom
ROMAN
>it included northern italy
>it included rome and the papal states
>it continued the Roman tradition
EMPIRE/REICH
>it's literally an overarching structure of smaller units
>independents units, but sworn to a common ruler
stop this meme
they changed it to Holy Roman Reich of the German NAtion when they lost Italy
Reich =/= Empire
it's a poor translation
Norway is a Kingdom, which in Norwegian is "kognerike" = "king reich"
we don't translate it to Norwegian King Empire
>>1204431
>Protestantism
>continuing the roman tradition
pick one you mongoloid
>>1204450
nice ad hominem
reported
>>1202947
I want to read it for comfy Habsburg adventures desu
>>1204450
>christianity
>continuing the Roman tradition
>Holy
Maybe at it's conception, I'll give you that.
>Roman
No, just no. What is this Roman tradition that you speak of?
Yes it included northern Italy at some point, but throughout its entire history it was mostly located in Germania
>Empire
Again, No. Yes the official ruler of the HRE was called emperor, but I challenge you to name one other empire in history where the ruler/rulers had so little influence over his/their "subjects".
>>1202947
All you need to know is the Holy Roman Empire's history and you basically get Europe's history in a nutshell. A common pleb reading this would be sufficiently knowledgeable of Europe's history. Hell reading this alone could probably give you a 4 on the AP European History exam alone.
Is it available in audiobook?
If not are there any audiobooks on the HRE that are good?
>>1203356
> :^)
>>1204547
I've read the author's previous book and I really doubt you'll be able to follow this book in audio form.
>>1204431
germanboo detected, ptobably from /pol/
>holy
Like all christians kingdoms, need the sanction from the pope. Then protestantism happened aka anticatholic, so not holy.
>roman
Neither the capital was in the italic peninsula, neither latin was the official language(not even close), and they were not even influencial in the mediterranean.
>Empire
Yeah sure, a clusterfuck of mictostates "obeying" a king. Almost as Empire as the actual European Union.
>>1204575
>defending simple facts
>germanboo
water tight logic there, my swarthy mediterranean friend
>>1204785
>then it was AIDS
how so? I explained that the German words used by the HRE themselves was REICH, not EMPIRE. In Germanic languages, 'reich' does not perfectly translate to 'empire', and I gave an example from Norwegian.
I'm Norwegian, and we, for example, when speaking of national security will say 'rikets sikkerhet", which literally translates to 'the reich's security'. It would be retarded to translate it to 'empire' in that instance. 'Realm' is a better word.
>>1204787
generic germanic confederation
>>1202947
The book is very dense and not a chronological history, so it's definitely not a casual read. The gist of it is that the Empire shouldn't be viewed as a failed nation state. The idea that it was 'weak' is rejected as superficial. Instead, power relations became more impersonal and institutionalized as the Empire evolved from a medieval kingdom to a somewhat modern state with a fixed election process, an imperial diet and not one, but two supreme courts.
Despite that, the book isn't exactly revisionist. It doesn't deny that the HRE couldn't match the military might of its centralized neighbors. But it shows how the Empire worked for a thousand years before it stopped working, and that's pretty damn impressive.
>>1204575
>Yeah sure, a clusterfuck of mictostates "obeying" a king.
Literally what an empire is you autist
>>1204512
a 4 out of what? how high a score is that
i just bought it. thx op. let u know in like a year or so.
>>1205808
cuck?
>tfw you realize >H>R>E meme was forced for months to promote this book
>tfw there are PR companies specializing on marketing goods on 4chan
>>1205858
are you saying it's not a good book?
>>1205862
I have no idea. I kinda liked his previous book, yet I was lost halfway through, it's to hard to follow all these names, places and events.
>reading pop history
>>1205167
5 is the best. A 3 or above is considered good by most colleges.
>>1205889
What do you consider pop history? I find it hard to believe this is flying off the shelves into normie hands.
>>1205889
name a better book(s) than faggot, i bet you can't.
>>1205889
>reading
The book has sold more audiobook copies than actual print copies
>pop
There is nothing popular about literature on the Holy Roman Empire. Go and ask Stacy and Chad on facebook how many written works on the Holy Roman Empire they've read and I gaurantee you the answer will be 0
>history
Peter H. Wilson is the pen name of Penny H. Wilson, changing her name so that the HRE research community would take her opinion seriously. It's HER STORY.
>>1206022
>There is nothing popular about literature on the Holy Roman Empire. Go and ask Stacy and Chad on facebook how many written works on the Holy Roman Empire they've read and I gaurantee you the answer will be 0
then answer would probably be them asking what the HRE is.
>>1206022
and people try to say that
>
>
>
isn't a forced meme.
>>1206076
how did this meme start
>>1206336
this smug piece of shit right here.
>>1206352
why'd he say it? and is he right?
>>1202947
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3c8WHFPhrE
Here's a little interview with the author
>>1206387
He was right. He was also so annoying that Frederich the Great banned him from RL shitposting in Prussia.
>"Holy" fought the pope, created their own popes when they disagreed with them. even sacked Rome or threatened to, not sure.
>"Roman" The heartland of the Empire was always Germany
>"Empire" Totally decentralised the "Emperor" had very little power over his vassals.
>>1206022
>Peter H. Wilson is the pen name of Penny H. Wilson
Wat? Is this some new meme? Because it isn't true.
Just a reminder that the Holy Roman Empire, traditional and dysfunctional as it was, lasted a thousand years.
Countries based on the ideas of Voltaire, on "reason", either last a few months, such as Jacobin France, or last a few decades before collapsing in terrible ways, such as the Soviet Union.
>>1204431
>>it continued the Roman tradition
the only Roman tradition it continued was being at war with itself
>>1206471
I agree that it wasn't remotely 'Roman' after they lost territory in northern Italy
but in the beginning, Rome and the Pope was connected with HRE
Holy German/Deutsche Empire/Reich would be better after that
>>1203370
I pirated it, do the same.
>>1204575
>holy
what could be more holy than getting crowned by the pope himself?
>roman
the nation was called holy roman empire of the german nation it also protected rome
>Empire
>Yeah sure, a clusterfuck of mictostates "obeying" a king. Almost as Empire as the actual European Union.
what is feudalism?
>>1204431
>the pope
>holy
>>1205812
the fuck, i thought i wouldn't get a reply a minute after. I'm from /pol/ so that's my favorite word, that's all. I can't believe I really bought the damn book either. I don't even like the middle ages apart from the fighting techniques and armor.
I guess since if you learn about the HRE you learn about Europe and how it came to be so it's a grudging read through.
Funny, because I thought France was the one that influenced how the middle ages would play out the most.
>>1207744
well he has a book on the 30 years war
>>1203356
"memearrow"
what is this
>>1203413
Seconding this, I bought Europe's Tragedy last week and it's fucking great. THe going is slow though.
>>1204431
Don't forget that 3 of the 7 electors were bishops, making it a bit more holy
>>1204575
>HRE
>Protestant
The emperor was a catholic monarch until the end you nerd
>>1203356
>
" "
______
>>1209488
fuck you
HREEEEEEEEEEE
>>1204431
>they changed it to Holy Roman Reich of the German NAtion when they lost Italy
So they lost Rome, yet "empire" was the part of the name they dropped? Was the >>> trans-Roman or something?
>>1204421
Stay mad you illegitimate fuck
>>1206038
>then answer would probably be them asking what the HRE is
"Uh - you mean like Julius Caesar and stuff?"
>>1206526
It simply needs to be called The Empire, which is what a lot of western european contemporaries thought of it as because for much of Euro history until Napoleon there could only be one "Emperor"
>>1206392
Thanks. This was great :)
>>1215311
This.
>>1205095
Reading it a bit kind of reminded me of The Pursuit of Glory (maybe because Wilson's books, between this and Europe's Tragedy, are structured in the same sort of way?) though I don't think I've enjoyed either as much as that one. Maybe because Blanning's a much better writer than Wilson who can be kind of dry.
>>1205889
I don't really think I'd consider an autistic examination of the machinations, national identities, religious identities and such of the Holy Roman Empire "pop history". There really needs to be a term for something inbetween what you'd get from an academic journal and what you'd get out of pop history (which I'd consider to be more people like Tom Holland, Roger Crowley, John Julius Norwich and the like).
Writers like Chris Wickham or Gordon S. Wood shouldn't really under the "pop" umbrella IMO.
so I just read that Charlemagne had the title "Imperator Romanorum"
when did the HRE emperors use "Kaiser"?
>>1216178
Carolingian Emperors were not the same as the HRE, they were two different polities really in the same legacy as Western Successor states. HRE and the term Kaiser was probably more used once Otto was crowned Emperor as well as being the King of Germany, which meant his German subjects would have thought of him as Kaiser.
>>1216196
ok, that makes sense
I think you hit the nail on the head
it's interesting stuff, I wonder what the state of the Frankish language was at that point of Cahrlemagne
would they (Frankish subjects, and the other Germanic tribes) have used the Latin title for Charlemagne?
>>1216250
Well, considering the education program set out by Charlemagne and the fact that many of his Frankish subjects were gradually assimilating with the Latin subjects they may have been calling him Imperator, or some later ancestor of the word Emperor.
