tell me 1 thing that is wrong about quran
pro tip:you'll never find it
>>1196038
Jesus died.
Jesus was crucified.
Jesus rose from the dead.
Jesus is God.
/thread
>>1196043
what is wrong with that
>>1196059
It's incorrect. It didn't happen. It's not true history.
Remember, this is history & humanities, not /pol/ theology.
>>1196069
>Some schizo arab listening to the devil 600 years later knows more than the eyewitnesses.
/his/
>>1196043
You think these things are in the Quran?
>>1196038
And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.
Qur'an 36:37-38
kek
Sun runs to a resting space at night. Geocentric much, muslims?
>>1196038
Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.
Qur'an 18:86
Sun sets in a muddy spring.
kek
>>1196104
Those things are denied by the qur'an.
>>1196111
Not even Muslim and I can run with that as poetic license. If you do too many more, I'll eventually agree, though. Not trying to be inflammatory, but a middle-road guy.
>>1196038
And verily We have beautified the world's heaven with stars/lamps, and We have made them missiles for the devils, and for them We have prepared the doom of flame.
Qur'an 67:5
Derp. What is a star, and how is it different from a meteorite?
>>1196038
The hour drew nigh and the moon did rend asunder.
Qur'an 54:1-3
Gee, the moon was split in two? When did this happen? did anyone tell the moon?
>>1196123
You think the sun needs to rest, and you also don't understand how the solar system works.
kek
>>1196038
Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge.
Qur'an 65:12
There's only 7 planets? You sure, Achmed?
>>1196130
I can write poetic prose that implies it does and not mean it literally. That's what I'm saying.
Like I said, I'm going to eventually agree if you post enough of those, but that one isn't it.
>>1196123
Do you also think the sun gets folded up at night?
When the sun (with its spacious light) is folded up
Qur'an 81:1
>>1196038
4.11: Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children's (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half. For parents, a sixth share of the inheritance to each, if the deceased left children; if no children, and the parents are the (only) heirs, the mother has a third; if the deceased Left brothers (or sisters) the mother has a sixth. (The distribution in all cases ('s) after the payment of legacies and debts. Ye know not whether your parents or your children are nearest to you in benefit. These are settled portions ordained by Allah; and Allah is All-knowing, Al-wise.
4.12: In what your wives leave, your share is a half, if they leave no child; but if they leave a child, ye get a fourth; after payment of legacies and debts. In what ye leave, their share is a fourth, if ye leave no child; but if ye leave a child, they get an eighth; after payment of legacies and debts. If the man or woman whose inheritance is in question, has left neither ascendants nor descendants, but has left a brother or a sister, each one of the two gets a sixth; but if more than two, they share in a third; after payment of legacies and debts; so that no loss is caused (to any one). Thus is it ordained by Allah; and Allah is All-knowing, Most Forbearing.
Qur'an 4:11-12
Ruh roh, Scooby. This distributes 112.5% of a man's estate! What do!
>>1196038
Seest thou not that the ships sail through the ocean by the Grace of Allah?- that He may show you of His signs? Verily in this are signs for all who constantly persevere and give thanks.
Qur'an 31:31
Ships are miracles!
>>1196139
No, but I can write a poem about it doing it and be just as correct. You're not getting my point, I'm not a Muslim. I'm saying your example so far are only funny if those lines are specifically meant to be understood in a literal fashion, which I'm not entirely sure they are.
I can cite secular works, lines in modern rock songs, that aren't literally true, but the way they're poetically referenced, make some sense.
>>1196038
O ye assembly of Jinns and men! If it be ye can pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, pass ye! not without authority shall ye be able to pass!
Qur'an 55:33
I guess Allah gave the USA and the USSR, non-muslim countries, a pass! But, hmmm, no muslim countries received such a blessing from their "god".
>>1196154
Go ahead and write that poem.
Then claim that your poem is eternal; that the original of your poem was always written in the heavens, and dictated to you by God Himself.
And then wonder why people mock you when it contains obviously unscientific errors in it.
The qur'an does not purport to be some guy's poem. It claims to be from god.
>>1196038
The hereditary division formula makes absolutely no mathematical sense. This is a completely irreconcilable error for a supposedly perfect text.
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran#Mathematical_Error_in_Hereditary_Laws
>>1196165
The way I understand spiritual literature, yes people claim it's imparted from their deity, but I don't understand they always claim it's a literal fashion. I think you're on a tangent with an agenda.
Sometimes lines are in parables, or analogies or even just flowery wistful rhetoric. I think part of the problem is when the devoted take certain parts in a literal fashion and run with it.
>>1196176
He is created from a drop emitted- Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs
Qur'an 86:6-7
Do you believe sperm resides in the testicles? If so, you are not a muslim!
>>1196038
Doesn't the Qur'an explicitly state at one point that the holy trinity is God, Jesus, and Mary? I could be wrong but I swear I read it.
>>1196176
And I think you will learn better when these savages have a knife to your throat and begin moving their arm in a sawing motion.
>>1196185
Kind of. It's supposed to be a rebuke from allah to Jesus to see if Jesus was the one telling people the trinity was Father Son and Mary.
>>1196038
Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:
Qur'an 96:2
Hmmmm, doesn't look like allah knows anything about embryology!
>>1196038
Also, let's talk about how the Qur'an talks about Mohammed being a prophet in the style of Moses, when there's no archaeological evidence that exodus even happened.
Though in fairness, lack of support for the exodus is a problem for all the Abrahamic faiths in general.
>>1196183
See, you're bonkers and you don't pay attention. I already said I'm not a Muslim. Try a little harder to convince me.
>>1196038
And of every thing We have created pairs: That ye may receive instruction.
Qur'an 51:49
Not every creature procreates or reproduces through male and female sexual relationship. The whiptail lizard in the U.S. Southwest, Mexico, and South America, is an all-females species which reproduces by parthenogenesis. Viruses reproduce using a host's DNA and are neither female nor male. Bacteria reproduce by cell division. Fungus can reproduce either sexually or asexually. Many species of plants also reproduce either asexually or through pollination.
Googling "scientific errors in the qur'an" is so difficult.
--OP
>>1196199
Again, if you think semen comes from the ribs, maybe you're just the perfect revert!
>>1196202
>revert
I wasn't ever a Muslim. See, you're just a crazy fucker with a chip on his shoulder, swinging at air. Not even worth my time.
>>1196209
Incidentally, I'm not saying you have potato chips on your upper body, nor are you literally moving your arms.
>>1196209
You're such a pleb.
A revert is a convert to Islam; they think you're Islamic and just don't know it.
>>1196214
>muh posts are the same as the qur'an.
>>1196038
A lot of its prescriptions are oppressive or at least unnecessary by our modern Western standards.
It's ridiculous that a man's word in court should always invariably be considered more trustworthy than a woman's.
Well, if you were the intelligent, critical thinker you seem to think you are, you'd agree with me.
>>1196209
Everyone is born a Muslim. Even young children know God is real.
"all that your right hand possesses" thing is pretty disturbing.
>>1196232
But are children born knowing that allah is the devil?
>>1196240
Are you one of those Gnostics? That's just weird, man. God is not the devil.
>>1196240
Allah is the Arabic word for "God", just as the Spanish call him "Dios" or Germans call him "Gott". There are Arabic-speaking branches of Christianity which use the term "Allah" in their bibles.
I know you're not going to believe me, ever, on that, but I'm telling you the truth. You've been indoctrinated to believe it's the name of a moon god, probably, but Allah was never the name of any polytheistic moon god being in the Arabian peninsula. You've been lied to.
>>1196043
God is not a man and God would never have allowed his prophet Jesus (pbuh) to be killed by Jews.
>>1196172
Every division goes by "what is left". So lets say I have some bills to pay, then those go first. From what is left, my wife gets a share. From what is left, my kids get their share. Continue until divided. Inheritance law is well fleshed out in Islam anf the arabic qur'an is clear as fuck. Maybe refer to the verses that say that God has made it "an arabic quran", and predicts that if its in a different language people will complain about it being vague or incomprehensible.
>>1196326
>and predicts that if its in a different language people will complain about it being vague or incomprehensible.
So you can just write off any non-Arabic criticism?
Anyway even by your interpretation there is not going to be any even division of the inheritance, you keep dividing and dividing but will never be able to distribute the entire lot, only break it into smaller pieces.
>>1196257
God is not the devil, true enough.
But allah is. Hater. Trickster. Deceiver. Plotter. Planner.
>>1196259
People like you think that, but people like you also think that there is no heaven or hell.
Al-lah is a name; Hubal is a name. Hubal is the god of Mohammad's father, one of the 360 in the kaaba.
Hubal never left the kaaba. Hubal is HaBaal, the Ba'al of the Moabites.
The Arabs have never worshiped the God of the Jews. They have always worshiped Ba'al.
>>1196297
>I know what God can and cannot do, and what God would and would not allow, for I am Anon.
What if God cared more about saving His creation than about His own personal honor?
>>1196326
Yeah, no.
Wife: 1/8 = 3/24,
Daughters: 2/3 = 16/24,
Father: 1/6 = 4/24,
Mother: 1/6 = 4/24,
Total = 27/24=1.125
>Muslims cannot into maths.
>>1196337
The fact that one of the main features of the qur'an is its linguistic miracle, I would write off most, not all, criticisms that are clearly resolved in Arabic.
Quite frankly, if you are interested enough in a text to debate it so vehemently online, learn the language. If you're not willing to do that, then drop the subject. You wouldn't rebuke a physicists ideas without knowing physics, so why critique an *ARABIC QUR'AN* without knowing Arabic?
On the inheritance issue, the last in line gets the remaining amount. Consult the sunnah and the jurists, this is generally well resolved m8.
>>1196368
Oh, I guess Islam is just for native Arabic speaking people then.
Good to know.
>>1196338
Why are you calling God a hater, trickster and a plotter?
>>1196353
What is left.
Meaning: what remains.
Ergo:
Wife takes 1/8th of 1. The 7/8th that remains are the new 1.
Repeat.
>>1196368
>We resolved the errors in the quran, and accept the abrogated suras, even as we claim it all to be perfect from God Himself.
>>1196375
I'm not.
I'm calling allah a plotter and planner, a trickster, a deceiver, a hater, and in fact the devil himself.
I think I made that pretty clear.
>>1196348
God is all powerful, he doesn't need to perform some weird crucifixion blood magic thingy or whatever it is Christians believe in order to save his creation, especially not on his very own prophet.
>>1196373
Native Arabic speakers have to learn classical arabic as well.
I ask you: if a book provides guidance for all of life, is it too much to ask that you learn the language it's written in?
>>1196376
4.11: Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children's (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half. For parents, a sixth share of the inheritance to each, if the deceased left children; if no children, and the parents are the (only) heirs, the mother has a third; if the deceased Left brothers (or sisters) the mother has a sixth. (The distribution in all cases ('s) after the payment of legacies and debts. Ye know not whether your parents or your children are nearest to you in benefit. These are settled portions ordained by Allah; and Allah is All-knowing, Al-wise.
4.12: In what your wives leave, your share is a half, if they leave no child; but if they leave a child, ye get a fourth; after payment of legacies and debts. In what ye leave, their share is a fourth, if ye leave no child; but if ye leave a child, they get an eighth; after payment of legacies and debts. If the man or woman whose inheritance is in question, has left neither ascendants nor descendants, but has left a brother or a sister, each one of the two gets a sixth; but if more than two, they share in a third; after payment of legacies and debts; so that no loss is caused (to any one). Thus is it ordained by Allah; and Allah is All-knowing, Most Forbearing.
Qur'an 4:11-12
Yeah, no "what was left" there at all.
>>1196379
God is not any of those things or the devil.
>>1196038
>koala picture in first post
>nothing to do with thread
Nice going, Australia
>>1196384
Again, who are you to decide what God can and cannot do? What God will and will not do?
Who are any of you to decide that?
Work on 90% of you being illiterate savages first. Then worry about what God will do.
>>1196377
>errors
A yes, when mathematicians resolve a math problem, they solve errors in the universe!
>>1196385
It wouldn't matter. I know this game. No non-native Arabic speaker can learn the language sufficiently to understand this book of lies.
>>1196392
The devil is all of those things, and not God. Calling him allah instead of satan doesn't change anything.
>>1196397
There is no "remainder" in the suras.
>>1196395
God can do anything he wants. It is you trying to put him a box and claim his powers are limited.
You can't put God in a box.
>>1196402
>calling him God instead of Satan doesn't mean anything
This doesn't even make sense.
>>1196388
>one translation is authoritative
Hi, I'm anon, and I am unable to understand the concept of "lost in translation" because I'm a monolingual american.
>>1196344
"Hubal" is not a "ba'al" named "Hu". There was no ba'al named "Hu". You have been soaking too much western christian propaganda and it's hurting your chance to understand ancient cultures.
The ancient god of the Moabites was Chemosh. If you really are interested in this, I enjoy it very much and like to talk about it. If you're just going to pontificate falsehoods and make people stupid, I can stop now.
>>1196400
So all the persians in the islamic golden age were native speakers? That's why they developed lexicons and dictionaries and grammars of Arabic as a second language, because they were native speakers? That's why some of the most influential muslims in the world righr now are non-native speakers of arabic?
>>1196425
>That's why some of the most influential muslims in the world righr now are non-native speakers of arabic?
This. The most powerful man in the world is an English speaking Muslim.
>>1196406
So God can manifest in the flesh, live a sinless life, perform signs and wonders, fulfill all of the ripe prophecies of the Messiah, get crucified, die, and raise again on the third day.
Good to know.
>>1196412
Calling satan "allah" does not change the fact that he's satan.
>>1196038
It claims the existence of a deity without ever providing verifiable evidence for the existence of such a being.
>>1196420
Well then take your debate to an Arabic imageboard you faggot, if we literally are not allowed to argue with you then why are you here?
>>1196420
Hi, I'm responding to Anon who has never dealt with lying, cheating, goal shifting muslims before.
>>1196421
Hubal, Mohammad's father's god.
Hubal (Arabic: هبل) was a god worshipped in pre-Islamic Arabia, notably at the Kaaba in Mecca. His idol was a human figure, believed to control acts of divination, which was in the form of tossing arrows before the statue. The direction in which the arrows pointed answered questions asked of the idol.
In the Hebrew, Hubal is HaBaal, the Ba'al of the Moabites.
>>1196425
Persians.
Arabs.
Pick one.
>>1196440
You clearly worship Satan but God is not Satan.
>>1196451
I clearly worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and despise satan/allah.
>>1196436
Do not practice exaggeration in your religion. God is not a man.
>>1196454
So God can not become a man even if He wanted to.
Because you say so.
>>1196453
>I clearly worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and despise satan/God.
You aren't making sense.
Why would you despise God and worship God at the same time.
And why would anyone but a worshipper of Lucifer call God Satan?
>>1196447
You didn't actually refute or even attempt to refute what he said.
>>1196464
Yes, to you I make perfect sense. To the person you are writing to, maybe less sense. Maybe you can taqiyya them.
>>1196468
He said there was no Hubal.
There is Hubal.
>>1196463
God can do anything he likes, it does not make claiming God is a man true, that is blasphemous.
>>1196454
God could be a man, to suggest he can't be one would be to limit God.
God could send his only son to be crucified, to suggest he couldn't would be to limit God.
You are projecting your own mortal logic onto the divine, you are the one who limits God by suggesting he "would never" or simply "couldn't" do any given thing.
>>1196475
So God could become a man, if He wanted to.
And about 2000 years ago, He did.
>>1196470
What? You might as well have typed "hghsfhhsfhsd".
>>1196478
He merely parrots what his imam tells him to parrot to westerners.
>>1196099
Of course what nonsense we should follow some shizo kike who claimed to see jeeebus in his dreams and derrives his authority solely from that vision.
>>1196038
Wahhabis
>>1196490
>God said he didn't.
Your God also says to divide inheritance illogically and claims the Christian trinity is the Son, the Father and Mary, which was never the case and never a view held by any Christian sect ever.
>>1196490
You keep confusing allah with God. I hope you get better one day.
>>1196500
Let's not forget Jesus talking to the wise men from His manger; Jesus causing a clay pigeon to become live; Jesus resurrecting a boyhood friend from drowning; etc., etc., etc.
>>1196502
>you keep confusing God with God
Come again?
>>1196482
In fact, deceit, which is doctrinally grounded in Islam, is often depicted as being equal—sometimes superior—to other universal military virtues, such as courage, fortitude, or self-sacrifice.
>>1196507
From my backbone and ribs?
kek
>>1196500
>God is a liar
Okay, anon, sure thing. Enjoy Hell.
>>1196447
No. No. and no.
You're not even trying, just by saying your wrong information a different way. Both the judeo christian old testament and the Mesha stele call the Moabite god "Chemosh". You're completely in left field with no scriptural or archaeological evidence to back your claim.
The only other answer is Moloch, and it's arguable they were the same deity. Hubal has absolutely not a damn thing to do with Moabites. Any casual observer reading this can spend 5 minutes reading up on it to find out for himself. You're not impressing anyone.
>>1196474
And the proof of this is either your own imagination or some random catholic apologist website on the internet obviously.
>>1196514
Where are you getting this from? Your anus?
>>1196474
You're insane. No one said, "there is no Hubal".
>>1196519
Yes, allah/satan is the father of lies, and does nothing but lie, cheat, steal, and kill.
>>1196524
You know they had more than one god, yes?
El, their main god, had Ba'al, Molech and Asheroth for children.
You should maybe know these things before posting that other people are wrong.
>>1196519
Your God just flat out doesn't exist.
>>1196527
And idols of Hubal from the era, and records in history, sure. You know, evidence.
>>1196530
Truth hurts. The muslims are shit tier fighters and world class liars. It's not a coincidence.
I mean, look how well the "allah is just the arab word for God" lie took hold.
>>1196547
>I mean, look how well the "allah is just the arab word for God" lie took hold.
What lie? It's literally "The God" Al-aLah
Al is "The" if you haven't noticed
>>1196547
God is God though. How could God be anything but God?
>>1196539
Ok, settle it this way. Show me one place, besides someone's bad internet fake page, a legitimate source, which says "Hubal is god of the Mobaites". I will eat my hat, because I know it to not be true.
Why don't you just google it and stop being wrong for the 10 seconds you're typing? Chemosh.
>>1196548
>Even a child knows God exists.
You are so fucking retarded. I'm saying the God that Muhammad preached of is a falsehood, he made it up, I didn't say God doesn't exist.
>>1196543
Dude
You said Hubal or whatever was the deity of the moabites, in response to the person who instead said they worshipped a deity named Chemosh as their own deity. You have offered nothing to refute this claim. Furthermore, where is the the proof that muslims worship satan that isn't just idiotic propaganda on your part?
>>1196567
Truly. I'd be more compelled to relate to "phoenecians worshipping satan" since Melqart, the patron of Tyre, was the subject of Ezekiel 28, which is the archetype for the modern fundamentalist view of satan.
See? I could run with that, and be ok with you saying that. I'm not going to be ok with someone saying "Hubal was god of the moabites", because it's not true in any understanding but his own.
>>1196560
He believes that somehow they worship something other than they think they're worshipping.
Which is quite literally impossible. It's like saying If I'm thinking about apples I'm not I'm actually thinking about oranges, but bearing in mind that i clearly know the differences between apples and oranges. Just as Muslims know that the Allah they worship is the same God as Jews and Christians, so you can't come along and say Aha! No it's actually Hubal!
>>1196564
That does not make sense you are claiming God is a falsehood but that he also exists.
>>1196547
>The muslims are shit tier fighters
Then why did Christians fight so poorly and lose so badly in the Crusades?
>>1196590
>tfw you realize you're arguing with someone who is literally autistic
>>1196607
Sorry, but calling the God of Moses, Jesus and Mohammad Satan is not going to work. No matter how hard you shitpost and how hard you cry about it.
>>1196564
>>1196607
If you are a Christian than you must admit God which Mohammad preached did existed.
Take a look at the earliest criticism of Islam. Mohammad was seen as a liar or a heretic but never people deny the existance of God.
You are playing the pedantic game of "mohammads allah is not the same" but it was, as it was recognized by Christians of his time, they only stated that he was a heretic and a liar.
Allah was used by Christians both post and pre islamic pagan arabia. Syriac Bible dating to the 1-2 AD has the word Allah
So no they are the same, what mohammad meant was not a different god but the same god. you can call him a liar, you can call him a heretic but do not try to distinguish the two
I'm saying this as a person who belongs to the Syriac Church. You are just playing pedantics.
>>1196624
>God of Moses, Jesus and Mohammad Satan
>If you are a Christian
I'm not, fuck this whole semantic bullshit pseudo-argument, you guys KNOW you're just being intentionally obtuse.
You will never find, in any Semitic record, a "ba'al named Hu". There is no such thing.
>>1196644
>you guys KNOW you're just being intentionally obtuse.
Yes, we do know. Every single reasonable person reading the thread can see it's you and I'm not even one of the Muzzies you have been arguing with.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_in_Islam
Simply saying "hurr Allah is Satan" is ridiculous. Everyone with half a brain knows Muslims, Jews and Christians worship the same God.
>>1196649
I think this is just the kind of thing that happens when people self-educate on the internet. It wouldn't be so bad if he wasn't so damn persistent, while categorically refusing to go read for 10 seconds. That parts really frustrating. Next, I expect a post , something along the lines of 'ha ha I was just trolling you!", which isn't true because he actually had it close enough to be a bad mistake.
>>1196692
>Simply saying "hurr Allah is Satan" is ridiculous.
But I never said anything like that. I think the entire Abrahamic notion of God is false, I don't think Satan even exists, you're confusing me with someone else.
>>1196649
There could have been a ba'l Hu, if there was a town named Hu and that would be patron deity of this town. I don't think there was a town named Hu. That also wouldn't explain why they'd reverse the name in exactly the same dialect to Hubal, like "town lord".
>>1196038
>>1196593
Catholics.
Christians.
Pick one.
>>1196562
Origins of Hubal[edit]
There may be some foundation of truth in the story that Amr travelled in Syria and had brought back from there the cults of the goddesses ʻUzzāʼ and Manāt, and had combined it with that of Hubal, the idol of the Khuza'a.[7] According to Al-Azraqi, the image was brought to Mecca "from the land of Hit in Mesopotamia" (Hīt in modern Iraq). Philip K. Hitti, who relates the name Hubal to an Aramaic word for spirit, suggests that the worship of Hubal was imported to Mecca from the north of Arabia, possibly from Moab or Mesopotamia.[8] Hubal may have been the combination of Hu, meaning "spirit" or "god", and the Moab god Baal meaning "master" or "lord". Outside South Arabia, Hubal's name appears just once, in a Nabataean inscription;[9] there hbl is mentioned along with the gods Dushara (ذو الشراة) and Manawatu — the latter, as Manat, was also popular in Mecca. On the basis of such slender evidence, it has been suggested that Hubal "may actually have been a Nabataean".[10] There are also inscriptions in which the word Hubal appears to be part of personal names, translatable as "Son of Hubal" or "made by Hubal".[11]
>>1196831
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubal
muzzies #rekt again
>>1196823
I pick both. All non-Catholics aren't Christian anyway.
>>1196842
>#rekt
This isn't twitter.
>>1196831
So you think this means "Hubal was the god of the Moabites", huh.
ok, I'll bite. My turn.
1 Kings 11:7 On a hill east of Jerusalem, Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the detestable god of Moab, and for Molek the detestable god of the Ammonites.
Numbers 21:29 Woe to you, Moab! You are destroyed, people of Chemosh! He has given up his sons as fugitives and his daughters as captives to Sihon king of the Amorites.
Jeremiah 48:4-7 4
Moab will be broken; her little ones will cry out. They go up the hill to Luhith, weeping bitterly as they go; on the road down to Horonaim anguished cries over the destruction are heard. Flee! Run for your lives; become like a bush[e] in the desert. Since you trust in your deeds and riches, you too will be taken captive,
and Chemosh will go into exile, together with his priests and officials.
Or hey, maybe you're not a person who believes in the bible. How about the Mesha Stele?
He became angry with his people and permitted them to become the vassals of Israel; his anger passed, he commanded Mesha to fight against Israel, and Moabitish independence was reestablished (Moabite Stone, lines 5, 9, 14 et seq.)
Chemosh was a god associated with the Semitic mother-goddess Ashtar, whose name he bears (Moabite Stone, line 17)
So you have speculation from a few people trying to sell books, or you have scriptural and archaeological evidence. Which will you pick?
protip: Chemosh was the god of the Moabites.
>>1196953
>Chemosh was the god of the Moabites.
Are you seriously trying to argue that the Moabites were monotheistic?
>>1196953
According to Morris Jastrow, Jr. and George Aaron Barton in the Jewish Encyclopedia,
The national god of the Moabites. He became angry with his people and permitted them to become the vassals of Israel; his anger passed, he commanded Mesha to fight against Israel, and Moabitish independence was reestablished (Moabite Stone, lines 5, 9, 14 et seq.). A king in the days of Sennacherib was called "Chemoshnadab" ("K. B." ii. 90 et seq. ; see Jehonadab). Chemosh was a god associated with the Semitic mother-goddess Ashtar, whose name he bears (Moabite Stone, line 17; compare Barton, "Semitic Origins," iv.). Peake wrongly holds that Ashtar-Chemosh was a deity distinct from Chemosh, while Moore and Bäthgen (Beiträge zur Semitischen Religionsgeschichte, p. 14) regard "Ashtar" in this name as equivalent to "Astarte," who they believe was worshipped in the temple of Chemosh. "Ashtar" is more probably masculine here, as in South Arabia, and another name for Chemosh, the compound "Ashtar-Chemosh" being formed like "Yhwh-Elohim" or "Yhwh-Sebaoth." Whatever differences of conception may have attached to the god at different shrines, there is no adequate reason for doubting the substantial identity of the gods to whom these various names were applied. Hosea ix. 10 is proof that at some period (according to Wellhausen, at the time of the prophet himself) the impure cult of the Semitic goddess was practised at Baal-peor (compare Wellhausen, Kleine Prophetell; Nowack's Commentary; and G. A. Smith, Twelve Prophets, ad loc.). Chemosh, therefore, was in general a deity of the same nature as Baal. On critical occasions a human sacrifice was considered necessary to secure his favor (compare II Kings iii. 27), and when deliverance came, a sanctuary might be built to him (Moabite Stone, line 3). An ancient poem, twice quoted in the Old Testament (Num. xxi. 27-30; Jer. xlviii. 45, 46), regards the Moabites as the children of Chemosh, and also calls them "the people of Chemosh".
>>1196953
Chemosh was apparently associated with the Semitic mother-goddess Ashtar. "Ashtar" here is probably equivalent to "Astarte," the Canaanite fertility goddess. If so, Chemosh probably stood in the position of Asthar's husband, as did El to Asherah and Baal to Astarte. Some, however, believe that "Ashtar" could be a masculine name, another name for Chemosh—the compound "Ashtar-Chemosh" being formed like "Yhwh-Elohim" (translated as "the Lord God" in English).
Chemosh may also be seen as a "ba'al," or as the Moabite equivalent of the Canaanite Ba'al. Some hold that the Moabite god "Baal-peor" of Num. 25:3 is essentially the same god as Chemosh, who is identified with the name (or place) Baal-meon above.
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Chemosh
>>1196989
Polytheism in the ancient near east wasn't the same as you'd imagine the pantheons of Egypt or Greece. City states and tribes had patron deities, which fit together in a line-up of understood regional personalities. As a matter of fact, if you read from the perspective of one believer, he might not even mention the name, simply to say "ba'al" or "lord", as in "my lord is bigger than yours", rather than to say, "my lord Melqart is bigger than your lord Hammon". When referring to "another's lord" though, you would be specific.
>>1197025
>Chemosh may also be seen as a "ba'al," or as the Moabite equivalent of the Canaanite Ba'al. Some hold that the Moabite god "Baal-peor" of Num. 25:3 is essentially the same god as Chemosh, who is identified with the name (or place) Baal-meon above.
>>1196999
>>1197023
Correct, and none of this says "Hubal was the god of Moab", which is the argument I am refuting, from his original statement in >>1196344
Ba'al is a sort of generic term, you would associate with a town or specific name. There was not "one Baal", but several ba'al, and that was the polytheistic nature of near east ancient religion.
>>1197059
>>Chemosh may also be seen as a "ba'al," or as the Moabite equivalent of the Canaanite Ba'al. Some hold that the Moabite god "Baal-peor" of Num. 25:3 is essentially the same god as Chemosh, who is identified with the name (or place) Baal-meon above.
>Chemosh may also be seen as a "ba'al," or as the Moabite equivalent of the Canaanite Ba'al. Some hold that the Moabite god "Baal-peor" of Num. 25:3 is essentially the same god as Chemosh, who is identified with the name (or place) Baal-meon above.
>>1197028
Yeh, you're confused. Those references are to Chemosh, not Hubal.
>>1197066
Yeh, where does that say "Hubal" is god of the Moabites? no where. You are having problems.
>>1196038
>created by arabs
>filled with horrible primitive arab culture like familial tribalism and the accompanying cousin incest marriage which has created one of the most inbred groups of assholes in history
>death cult
>hates homosexuality but loves boy rape... and girl rape too
>sexual deprivation used as a means to encourage violence and depravity
>treat women as animals
FUCKING ARABS basically, it's like having the village idiot create a world religion
>>1197059
As stated above, and proven herein, Hubal is the Ba'al of the Moabites, aka Chemosh.
Thank you for your participation.
>>1197071
Hubal = HaBaal in Hebrew = Ba'al of the Moabites.
>>1197071
>Moabite god "Baal-peor" of Num. 25:3 is essentially the same god as Chemosh
Moabite god "Baal-peor" of Num. 25:3 is essentially the same god as ChemoshMoabite god "Baal-peor" of Num. 25:3 is essentially the same god as ChemoshMoabite god "Baal-peor" of Num. 25:3 is essentially the same god as ChemoshMoabite god "Baal-peor" of Num. 25:3 is essentially the same god as ChemoshMoabite god "Baal-peor" of Num. 25:3 is essentially the same god as Chemosh
>>1197075
You're insane.
You're also saying the bible is lying, but I expect that around here. Nothing but one speculation above posits "Hubal as Chemosh".
You might really have brain damage.
>>1197082
See it now?
>>1197087
The bible isn't lying; it identifies Chemosh as Baal-peor, the Baal of the Moabites.
Who came to be known as Hubal, HaBaal, the Ba'al of the Moabites.
>>1197087
>I can't admit I'm wrong on the interwebz.
That level of butthurt is astonishing.
>>1196129
it's one of the miracles the prophet performed to prove the existence of a deity to other people, similar to the whole jesus turned water into wine or walked on the surface of the water thing
>>1196127
it is said that the sun and stars, as well as the sky itself will come crashing on earth on the day of the apocalypse
>>1197078
No, Hubal doesn't mean HaBaal in Hebrew. You're making that up. If anything you've messed up your point because the speculation posits origin from Aramaic. See? You're out of line.
>>1197103
LOL I read up and he did fail there.
>>1197127
Yeh, that's the thing about trying to snow people in type. We can take 2 minutes to read the above. He did, even, mess up his own story.
>>1197103
>>1197118
>>1197127
>>1197144
Gerhard Nehls writes:
"Who was Hubal?
"In Chapter 2 we had mentioned Hubal who was considered the god of the Ka'ba before the time of Muhammad. What does the name mean? It cannot be explained from the Arabic language (Encyclopedia of Islam by Gibb and Kramers). In his book Specimen Historicae Arabum the author (Pocock) suggests that the name might well have been derived from ha-Baal. The old Hebrew and Arabic written languages had no vowels, so this would have been one of many common changes (e.g. one can read Mohamed, Muhamad, Muhammed, Mahomet etc.).
"Interesting is the name HUBAL (in Arabic and Hebrew script the vowels were not noted). This shows a very suspicious connection to the Hebrew HABAAL (= the Baal). As we all know this was an idol mentioned in the Bible (Num. 25:3, Hosea 9:10, Deut. 4:3, Josh. 22:17 and Ps. 106:28-29). Where was Baal worshipped? In Moab! It was the "god of fertility". Amr ibn Luhaiy brought Hubal from Moab to Arabia.
"The name "Allah" (from 'al-Ilah' -- the god or 'al-Liah' = the one worshipped) was well used in pre-Islamic times. It was rather a title than a name and, was used for a diversity of deities. As we shall see later, an idol called Hubal was addressed as Allah. Muhammad's grandfather reportedly prayed to Hubal and addressed him as Allah. The deities al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat were called "the daughters of Allah" (Surah 53:19). "Allah was viewed, already before Muhammad, as the Lord of the Ka'ba, while, if not surely, but very probably, this sanctuary was devoted to Hubal, whose image was placed inside" (Reste Arabischen Heidenthums, p. 221 by J. Wellhausen). "While the rituals performed are still addressed to the respective deities, Allah is seen as the creator, the father and with that the superior Lord. But he is viewed to be too general, neutral and impersonal a Lord" (ibid p. 219). "Allah became the Islamic substitute for any idol" (ibid p. 85).
The godless #rekt again.
>>1197183
>both Wikipedia
Check again sport.
>>1197170
>Where was Baal worshipped?
All over the middle east because it just means "lord". It's not a proper name, like Zebub or Hammon.
It also does not mean "Hubal" means "Lord Hu". I challenged you to find any reference to "Lord Hu" and you found none, because it doesn't exist. Hubal is the proper name of a deified being around the southern Hejaz, not Canaan.
>>1197183
One writer goes so far as to apply Baal to the name Hubal. Speaking of the Kabah, Barnaby Rogerson writes:
"Inside this holy of holies are stored all manner of sacred objects and images. These are said to include an icon of the Virgin Mary with the Christ Child and a portrait of the Prophet Abraham. But the shrine is dominated by a representation of the war god Baal Hubal, who watches over the city's political destiny. At times of trouble the city elders can seek his advice by casting a quiver of divinatory arrows before idols and reading the future from the answers they give" (Rogerson, The Prophet Muhammad -- A Biography [HiddenSpring, An Imprint of Pauline Press, Mahwah, NJ 2003], p. 15; underline emphasis ours).
And:
"The statue of the Syrian war god Hubal was hauled away, as were the divination arrows that the Quraysh had been wont to throw before the statue" (Ibid., p. 190; underline emphasis ours).
Sure hope you don't make money with your "education" in this field.
>>1197209
And God just means Creator, similarly worshiped all over the world.
But with different entities in mind.
(And the differences matter.)
>>1197209
Er, you asked me to prove something I didn't state and think is laughable.
I said Hubal comes from HaBaal, from the Hebrew, and then cited proof of same.
Because when the Hebrews left YHWH and worshiped foreign gods, well, it was HaBaal among others that they "worshiped".
>>1197217
Well, there you go, Ba'al Hubal of Mecca, not Lord Hu of Moab. You probably still can't tell the difference, but, whatever. You're a fucking moron.
>>1197228
But "Ha" or "Hu" were not the names of any ba'al. Saying "ba'al Hubal" is different from "ba'al hu". You probably still don't get that, because you're a fucking moron.
>>1197234
lol jinx.
>>1197234
>Lord Hu of Moab.
kek
>Let's strawman and see if he gets confused.
>>1197244
Ha is the.
For instance, your spiritual father's name is HaSatan, aka Satan.
>>1196038
it promotes censorship and dehumanizes women further than western or far eastern civilisation ever did
>>1197267
What's the strawman? He said "Hubal" means "HuBa'al" in Hebrew because "Hu" might have been a word for "spirit" in Aramaic.
Yeh, figure that one out. Anyway, "Lord Hu". There is no ba'al anywhere named "Hu", ever.
>>1197269
no, you nincompoop. ha-satan means "the adversary". Capitalized "S", for "Satan" is the english interpretation for a proper name of a being. Evangelicals mess that up and run with it, but it's not a huge deal to me, because the concept of "Satan" would indeed be "the adversary". That is semantics. It's not the same thing he's trying to say.
>>1197292
Except it's not "HaBaal". It's never been "HaBaal", it's the Arabic moon god "Hubal", it's not the "lord of Moab", because I cited scripture who was the lord of Moab, Chemosh, and that's what's we've been discussing for 45 minutes, but he's too damaged to figure it out.
>>1197316
maybe he thinks if he turns the sentence backwards it will be something different and you will be wrong.
>>1197306
Yes. HaSatan is Satan, the Adversary.
>>1197316
Chemosh = Hubal = HaBaal = The Ba'al of the Moabites = Allah.
QED
>>1197342
I don't see how that ludicrous chain of reasoning means Chemosh=Yahweh=God
>>1197338
This.
Christian Atheists and their Godlessness are a complete joke.
>>1197371
Probably because it says the exact opposite.
lol this conversation went from hubal is the god of moabites to chermosh is hubal to hubal is hubaal in hebrew, a language not spoken by moabites, to why dont you believe me when i post wikipedia.
I think I will believe the book of Kings, Numbers and Jeremiah. all 3 say chermosh is the god of moab. if someone says that and gave that proof, how do you call him godless
>>1197425
You were lost before I met you.
>>1197431
Because Chemosh, like allah, like Satan, is a fallen angel and is not God.
All muslims are godless people as they worship a demon.
>>1197449
well I never seen any name of fallen angels named allah in my bible, so I think you have a different bible.
>>1197459
allah is also known as the devil, the serpent, the dragon, the adversary, the father of lies; I'm sure if you got a real bible you could find those names in there.
>>1197473
And let's not forget that since the qur'an says nothing against raping little boys, it is very common in the muslim world for men to rape little boys.
"Women are for children; boys are for fun."
Every muslim country ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nXbCnGL-TY
>>1197446
Enjoy Hell, sucker.
>>1196038
in all truth, the Qur'an is a beautiful book; but coming from a former christian, the book has some *interesting* observations on differnt isuues (not singling you out; the bible's fucked us, as is)
