Was the fact that the communist managed to survive the long march the biggest tragedy of Chinas history?
>>1179968
The biggest tragedy in China's history is that Sun Yat Sen died prematurely and the KMT was left in the hands of Chiang "Gay" Shek
>>1179972
>Impying Sun Yat Sen would have done a better job at keeping the commies at bay.
>>1179978
Probably, we know how things ended with Chiang in charge.
>>1179984
But he got BTFO by Yuan Shikai
He was cute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDpHcaB4tQc
>>1179972
Sun Yat Sen was the biggest tragedy.
2157 years of imperial history/traditions. Ruined. Like holy shit i hate Sun Yat Sen so much
>>1179968
No, the """""Great Leap Forward"""" was.
>>1180013
Would never have happend if the commies didn't survive the long march
>>1180016
Yeah but I don't see the point in considering that the greatest tragedy as opposed to the actual disastrous event.
>>1180011
Maybe more if you want to consider the Zhou and/or Shang.
In fairness to Sun, his idea for five parts of government, including a Censorate, did somewhat blend both Western and Chinese ideas of government. Also, the Qing dynasty was such an obvious disaster at that point. It was difficult to not look at Japan and be like, "Yeah, we should probably do something like that."
Why did Japan and US have to ruin everything?
>>1179968
Chiang Kai Shek just go his arse handed over to him. He lost fair and square, even though he has american support and advanced military equipement.
Now the Great Leap Foward, the Cultural Revolution and the 100 Flowers were disastrous, in a lesser degree for the later, but the RPC did manage to improve some things. On the other hand, the KMT did turn a backward island in a powerful nation of the far-east, but let's not forget the White Terror and the 40+ years of martial law.
So, yeah, neither are a saint. Like some anons here, I wonder what would have happened in Sun Yat Sen remained in command.
>>1180077
>On the other hand, the KMT did turn a backward island in a powerful nation of the far-east
Nobody sees Taiwan as nothing else but a US Outpost.
Even Filipinos are confident enough to fucking shoot at Taiwanese.
>>1180077
>White Terror and the 40+ years of martial law.
>Implying that was a bad thing
>>1180081
Economically speaking, Taiwan is a strong country, and the amout of commercial exchanged with the mainland make them safe from an immediate threat - for now.
Besides, a new form of nationalism is rising. Many people do not wish to be considered China, or "true" China, but just Taiwanese, with its very own specificities and identity. Not all Taiwanese are refugees for the KMT's defeat and many were here before, including some Han chinese.
>>1180084
Meh, I wouldn't be so sure.
He tried to ally with the soviets while they were backing mao, ended up with another classic poland situation with axis and commitern destroying his mismanaged country
>>1180077
>but let's not forget the White Terror and the 40+ years of martial law.
There is literally nothing wrong with killing Taiwanese, Chiang kai Shek did nothing wrong
>>1180091
>Many people do not wish to be considered China, or "true" China, but just Taiwanese, with its very own specificities and identity.
The significant majority still prefer the status quo. Also the native Taiwanese are die hard supporters of KMT, only because they do not want Chinese stealing their identity.
>>1180298
How many Taiwanese have you talking to ? Because this is close to dellusion. The Taiwanese are not "die hard supporters" of the KMT, and you should take a look at last elections if you still have doubts. Besides that, your statement is contradictory in the first place.
"Native Taiwanese" refer to the people who were here before the civil war, so it includes a majority of abo people and immigrants from the mainland, some being Han, some being something else. The taiwanese identity is a whole melting pot of various cultural, ethnic and religious origins. However, if by "native" you man the abo people then there is simply no chance of their identity being stolen by the people of chinese descent. On the contrary, they suffered a lot from the White Terror.
>There is literally nothing wrong with killing Taiwanese blablabla
Disregarded as pure edge. You must feel super strong and shit yo.
bump
>>1181022
lel
>>1181022
LMao
So why didn't Chiang ching chong try and invade the Mainland during the Great Leap Forward? It would seem like the perfect time to strike back.
>>1180011
>an actual Manchu apologist
Wew we're going in all sorts of directions now
>>1182536
IIRC there were various schemes and skirmishes cooked up between ROC and the US that never got off the ground during the 1950s and 1960s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Taiwan_Strait_Crisis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Taiwan_Strait_Crisis
>>1180011
The only relevant empire I can think of which didn't end in bloody revolution is the Britbong empire and look at their inbred royalty now.
>>1180011
Fucking retard. The worst thing to ever happen to China was Qing.
>>1179972
SKY was pretty shit as well.
1860-1976 Chinese leaders were JUST tier. All the good ones got killed by the bad ones.
Then the Japanese BTFO anything half decent remaining.
>>1180348
To be fair, KMT won in 2008 and 2012 with majorities. (2004?)
Also the Presidency 2008 and 2012.
