I'm a bit confused about the Trinity.
>>1136255
Nohing to understand, it's a complete fabrication.
>>1136255
Fedora here
From what I understand, one facet of the Trinity can exist independently of the three, but two cannot exist without the third or it throws it into imbalance
A large part of the Trinity topic is feelings, so semantics are difficult
>>1136255
can you be any more specific?
>>1136255
I guess the law of transitive property doesn't apply to God for some reason
>>1136284
>logic
>god
Pfff. He's only logical when it comes to simple paradoxes.
>>1136268
How can Jesus be God and not God and the son of God and God?
It blows my mind sometimes.
>>1136255
Just read De Trinitate by Augustine, it should put you on context.
>>1136255
Literally every way you could think to rationally explain it has been declared a heresy of some kind.
The most honest Christfags just call it a mystery and leave it at that.
>>1136430
What is an ousia?
>>1136255
It's nonsense dude. There is no rational explanation for it.
>>1136448
I don't believe that, most of the great philosophers of history have been Christian. They have found some way to explain it.
>>1136284
F =/= S =/= H
G = F+S+H, G = F, G = H, G = S
pls
Think of this, if you go back in time and talk to yourself, it doesn't multiply your metaphysical essence, which is one, but still you have two existences. God is one being with three existences.
>>1136461
What does this mean?
>>1136466
Thank you Constantine, I love your replies so much and I wish there was an Orthodox church near me.
I'm still struggling though. Sorry.
Are you saying God time travelled?
>>1136461
1 =/= 2 =/= 3
X = 6
X=1, X=2, X=3
Sounds legit
>>1136521
don't think of it in terms of numerical value
>>1136489
Thank you. :)
No, all three persons (or "existences" more literally) of the Trinity existed before all ages, all time, beyond all dimensions and materiality, and continue to, unlimited in every sense, transcending all boundaries and boxes. I put it in those terms to give a parallel human example. God the Father *caused* (but did not create, as this is before all ages, so God *eternally* caused the, as in caused them beyond all time and without any beginning) the Son and the Holy Spirit, which are identical with him in every way. Not just "clones" but identical in the same way as if you went back in time and talked to yourself.
>>1136550
I don't think you understand how logic works and what it is, unless you're just rusing
>>1136255
It is a mistery
The essence of it being a mistery, you cannot explain it by logic
The greatest miracle is the trinity
Something like that, it is not logic, you have to give up and start believing
>>1136592
Are christards really this aggressively retarded or is this just a semi-decent ruse?
>>1136612
>mistery
take a guess
>>1136466
That makes no sense due to the fact that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have different properties which cannot be accidental due to the nature of God, but never mind that. I would like to pray to you to intercede on my behalf; should I just say the Ave Maria with each instance of "Mary" replaced with "Constantine", or should I come up with something on my own?
>>1136255
>man, woman, child = family but are not each other
>Father, Son, Holy Spirit = God but are not each other
>>1136255
Because it doesn't make sense.
>mfw i learnt that these christological arguments only make sense in their historical contexts and have more to do with the politics of the 3rd-4th centuries than anything jesus said or did
>>1136656
They don't have different properties, they all have identical properties.
If you want me to pray for you, you have to ask me a way I will get the message. I'm not a saint..
>>1136674
It has to do with God being able to love himself. Love is selfless, yet God loved before all ages when there was only himself to love. Yet how could he love himself if love is senseless? Hence the trinity. God's love is like a stool supported by three legs.
>>1136255
It just works.
>>1136684
lmao dat pure ideology tho. i bet you dont even know the difference between an arian and a menophosite. your namesake also only adopted jesus as a war god because he helped him in a battle.
>>1136698
>only adopted jesus as a war god because he helped him in a battle.
So?
>>1136698
An Arian is the opposite of a monophysite, the former believes Christ is but human, the latter that he is but divine (unless by "monophysite" you mean "miaphysite")
>>1136666
>God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit aren't the same
>Satan quads
Nice try, devil.
>>1136678
So you're saying that they're three identical but separate entities? If they aren't separate, how do you differentiate them?
>>1136816
They are distinct, but not separate. How can they be separate if they beyond and space or time?
The nature of the trinity is that it can never be explained. I don't know, I guess it's a test of faith. If you walk in skeptical you're going to leave skeptical. You need to be a christian first before you can swallow the abandon reason pill.
>>1136807
I said they aren't the same, this is true by definition.
>>1136807
HE DENIES THE TRINITY
HE IS THE REAL SATAN
>>1136818
So, are they distinguished by their relationship to each other?
>>1136684
>God is polyamorous
>>1136898
So they are not separate entities, yet they love each other?
>>1136937
One entity, with three existences, that love each other.
>>1136950
Why three, then? Why not four, seven, 108, 613, or infinite?
>>1136255
It's pretty simple no need to complicate. They are all one and are God.
>>1136262
Thanks for the input Mr fedora
>>1136967
Because they all do everything as one, as a trio of from/of, by/through, in/among. No more, no less.
What I wanna know is how the fuck is this consistent with the strict monotheism of Judaism?
Because logically it makes no sense.
>>1136997
That's why the Jews reject it. I guess from a Christian perspective it's still one god but of course any outsider is going to look upon that with skepticism.
>>1136997
See Genesis 18
>>1136992
I thought you said that they weren't differentiated by their relationship to each other. Just as a passing remark, this sounds like an oversimplified version of the Sephirot.
>>1137008
Interesting.
Then what is the Jewish argument against the Trinity? How do they rationalize Gen.18?
>>1137047
They say that Abraham is alternatively talking to the three, and alternatively talking to God. That the three are not God, it just looks like that.
>>1136255
Christian here. Dont sweat it. When you die God isnt going to quiz you in your views of the trinity and send you to hell if you answer wrong
>>1136255
Your body is made up of a skeletal system, a muscular system, and a nervous system (I know there are others, using these as an example). Each of those things are separate and distinct, but when someone refers to you they are thinking of the greater thing that is constructed of all of them.
>>1136255
Its literally a matter of faith, a divine mystery. Its the equivlent of believing in a square circle
>>1137137
Partialism, Heresy!
>>1137251
>Actually listening to ancient dudes declaring what is and isnt okay to believe
>>1137257
Oh that definitely smells like heresy.
>>1137137
>Your body is made up of a skeletal system, a muscular system, and a nervous system (I know there are others, using these as an example). Each of those things are separate and distinct, but when someone refers to you they are thinking of the greater thing that is constructed of all of them.
This is heresy that the Father Son and Holy Spirit are components that make up God rather than God itself.
A neverous system is literally not the body whilst Jesus is literally God
>>1136255
>the son is God
>the father is God
>the son is not the father
>therefore God is not God
I'm lost as well OP.
>>1136255
There is an actual serious answer assuming you're looking for one and not just baiting, but it will probably be unsatisfying if you arent a christian.
Its one of the parts of Christianity that simply has to be taken on faith. Most of the Bible and its teaching have explanations that humans can understand, but God's nature is not like the nature of humans, its something we fundamentally cannot understand. The only advice i can give you is to not start christianity with the trinity and also like >>1137103 said, its probably not a salvific matter
>>1137315
>The only advice i can give you is to not start christianity with the trinity and also like >>1137103 said, its probably not a salvific matter
You a very wrong here, belief in the trinity is literally a requirement of salvation. If you deny the Trinity you either deny the divinity of Christ or are a polytheist.
Only a complete moron takes the whole bible literally
>>1136255
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7IyZYEcyyk
>>1136255
Basically an asspull to justify worshipping three different deities.
Idk if I agree with pic related completely, but there's some interesting stuff in there.
>>1136255
It's okay, so are Christians. Even they have to chalk it up to a mystery.
3 entities occupied by one greater conscious?
So is Jesus really God's "son" or is that just an analogy for humans?
Because by virtue of being co-eternal with the Father, Jesus can't technically be his offspring.
>>1137773
It's really God's son.
>>1136255
DUDE FAITH LMAO
>>1137776
How?
>>1137773
God eternally "begot" (caused) the Son.
>>1137372
No, the only requirement is salvation in Christ; you could technically be a polytheist and go to Heaven.
>>1137842
Causation requires time, which contradicts co-eternity.
>>1137855
>causation requires time
Why?
>>1137864
If I need to explain cause and effect to you, I don't think you should be trying to discuss metaphysics.
>>1137843
We can't know if polytheists can go to heaven, Christ never said. We can know that *spreading* lies which distort the doctrine Christ *did* pass on, will not count in your favor, and that includes spreading lies about the Trinity.
>>1137876
Cause and effect is simply "B is due to A", not "B is temporally subordinate to A"
>>1137887
How can B be caused by A if A and B have both always existed?
>>1137816
Read the bible, I don't got time to sit on my ass and argue about how shit happened.
>>1137887
>Causality (also referred to as 'causation',[1] or 'cause and effect') is the agency or efficacy that connects one process (the cause) with another (the effect), where the first is understood to be partly responsible for the second, and the second is dependent on the first.
>In general, a process has many causes, which are said to be causal factors for it, and all lie in its past. An effect can in turn be a cause of many other effects, which all lie in its future.
> The Bradford Hill criteria, otherwise known as Hill's criteria for causation, are a group of minimal conditions necessary to provide adequate evidence of a causal relationship between an incidence and a possible consequence, established by the English epidemiologist Sir Austin Bradford Hill (1897–1991) in 1965.
>Temporality: The effect has to occur after the cause (and if there is an expected delay between the cause and expected effect, then the effect must occur after that delay).[1]
Temporality seems to be essential, yes.
>>1137898
B is *eternally* caused by A, as in caused beyond all time. Note I am talking about *eternity* here, NOT sempiternity.
>>1137898
There could be a change, an action that B being caused by A
>>1137917
>B is *eternally* caused by A
this is *eternally* nonsense
>>1137879
I always thought Jesus was able to forgive any sin, including being a polytheist? Which is what I was trying to say. (Acts 16:31, Ephesians 2:8-9, John 14:6)
>>1137887
This is just a word game to try to cover up an obvious logical contradiction.
If A causes B than A is before B. This requires time.
>>1137912
Here is the strict definition
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cause
Also I'm using it in the theological sense, which is much more nuanced: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B1%E1%BC%B0%CF%84%CE%AF%CE%B1
All this long predates the materialist elaborations of the 20th Century
>>1137930
How is the trinity polyheism? Are you stupid? Do you deny that Jesus is God's son? Holy shit this is blasphemy you stupid shit.
>>1137445
You could apply the same wonder to a pythagorean cult that demands you accept the existence of a square circle.
>>1136255
Read the Athanasian Creed a couple times until you get more confused.
>>1137940
When did I say the Trinity was polytheistic?
>>1137947
You implied it.
>>1137936
You can't, on one hand, use a simple dictionary definition of a word, and on the other bring in a theological Greek term with no relation to it anyway.
If you want to discuss the intricacies of your theological term, then use an appropriate translation or don't bother. Ain't nobody got time for this.
>>1137943
action can only happen within time. it's the same as saying God can make 2 + 2 = fish
>>1137943
You also need to assume that whatever God interacts with acts outside of time (after all he if the object he is interacting with is affected by time any interaction with is affecte by causality).
We know the universe does act within time.
Therefor when God interacts with it he is confined by time too. Your arguement is refuted.
>>1137950
I didn't. All I said was that polytheists are capable of going to Heaven.
>>1137963
I mean, if we wanna play mental gymnastics, fish has four letters in the word.
>>1137966
They aren't though.
>>1137945
Really if you worshipped a schizophrenic who could only talk garbage everything he said would be a divine transcedental mystery.
The notion that Christianity is more believable or beautiful because the core tenants don't make any sense is really fucking strange.
>>1137957
The Father always furnished the Son's existence, as in there was never a time when this was not so, "eternally begotten of the Father". The Son eternally exists beCAUSE of the Father who begot him beyond time.
>>1137981
The logical conclusion is that God cannot create time.
>>1137973
"Begot" doesn't seem like the proper translation then, and neither does "caused".
I'm not sure if there's a better word to imply "forever existing with and depending on", but those two sure aren't it.
>>1137965
He'll just say God isn't bound by time because, uh, he's God.
>>1137965
He could always just pull out of time.
>>1137972
>The notion that Christianity is more believable or beautiful because the core tenants don't make any sense is really fucking strange.
The mysticism argument is generally used by the the theologically slack, its a simple justification that cant easily be dismissed by the layman.
>>1137996
The universe is bound by time. Therefor whatever happens to the universe must be within the univese's boundries.
If God wants to interact with the universe he must play with in these boundries.
Therefor God can never step outside of time when interacting with the universe.
This logically means God cannot create time in the universe
>>1137969
How come? The only requirement is salvation through Jesus, which is available to anyone. Nowhere does the Bible say there's exceptions. Murderers, thieves, liars, we are all sinners. You and I are just as bad as polytheists.
>>1137985
>God interacts with the universe
>therefore he is bound to it's laws
I don't see how this follows
>>1137990
Yet time did not always exist. Something caused it. If nothing caused it, then it would not be limited, as it would not start at a particular point, because there would be no point of causation to limit its backward trajectory.
>>1137992
It's not just a question of "depending on", which would be merely a predicate. God consciously and willfully caused the Son to exist, he willed his existence, from all ages, before all time, always.
>>1137999
If he does pull out of time he can not than suddenly interact with a temporal thing. The universe works on cause and effect. There for all it's interactions must involve time including it's interaction with God.
At the very best you could say that God has two modes. A time mode and a non-time mode. Whenever he does anything in the universe he is in time-mode. He can stay in non-time mode but only if he takes no actions.
>>1138006
Salvation through Jesus means you gotta be with the program.
>Murderers, thieves, liars, we are all sinners
A murderer will go to hell for committing a mortal sin (blow me Constantine, it's judicial sinning.)
>>1138013
>>God interacts with the universe
>>therefore he is bound to it's laws
>I don't see how this follows
If you challenge God, using the limitations of worldly mathematics, to make a square circle - he cannot, because that breaks the rules he's playing under. It's the same principle.
>>1138023
We're not talking about a logical paradox, just an empirical paradox, significant difference.
>>1138013
If you want to get smarmy and semantical, then you can't say "caused" or "willed" in any sort of tense, because that necessarily implies time, a past age.
>>1138014
>He can stay in non-time mode but only if he takes no actions.
*No actions in this universe.
>>1138013
Suppose you want to move a rock. The rock will only move in relationship to physics. This physics is a two way relationship between the rock and the mover. If the mover is not interacting with the physics he cannot be part of this relationship.
The universe likewise has a relationship with time. All effects have a cause in a time-relationship. If God wants to be a cause he must be in a time-relationship.
There are many theories on how time is formed but your theory of God is critically flawed.
But we do not even need metaphysics. We would only need to turn to your religions bible. You beleive Jesus was God, you beleive his physical body was God. But his body aged, he moved things in time-relationships. Everything he ever did in life was within the frame of time.
If God were completely removed from time as you say he cannot be Jesus.
You can also not have God be omnipresent if you want him to be Jesus since was only in one place at a time.
>>1138029
>We're not talking about a logical paradox, just an empirical paradox,
Actually its a rational one. As its not relying on sense data for God.
>>1138049
It's relying on mechanics derived purely from empiricism.
>>1138050
>>Not if God ALWAYS caused the Son.
If always takes place outside of time, you can't use a tensed verb.
>>1138050
Seems to me he is infinity refuted. You have not addressed a single point. Like always you just ignore points you do not like and spout some innane dribble.
I will also add that other religions concept of God do not struggle with such basic problems as easily. The Muslims, Jews, and even Gnostic have considerably less problems with their theology and metaphysics.
>>1138055
>you can't use a tensed verb
But you can. Because someone just did.
>>1138096
He's allowed to use words incorrectly.
>>1138096
*You can.
Just like you CAN contradict your central terms.
It just means no one takes your idea seriously anymore.
>>1138106
How is You capitalized?
>It just means no one takes your idea seriously anymore.
Don't make me post that.
>>1138055
God ETERNALLY caused the Son.
>>1138122
Or causes, or is causing, or whatever tense you like, since no tense expresses it.
>>1136255
Grats OP, this is the best bait I've ever seen on 4chan.
>>1138129
If nothing can express it, then it's meaningless to discuss it. Chalk it up to mystery and move on.
>>1138150
There's no "eternal tense", but that doesn't mean the concept of eternal tense is not expressible.
>>1136255
This triune God (or Trinity) began to allude to this aspect of His nature right in Genesis 1:26–27. There we read that “God said, ‘Let us make man in our image’ . . . God created man in His image.” Here God is a plural noun, said is in the third-person singular verb form, and we see both the plural pronoun our and the singular His referring to the same thing (God’s image). This is not horribly confused grammar. Rather, we are being taught, in a limited way, that God is a plurality in unity. We can’t say from this verse that He is a trinity, but God progressively reveals more about Himself in later Scriptures to bring us to that conclusion.
In Isaiah 48:12–16 we find the speaker in the passage describing himself as the Creator and yet saying that “the Lord God and His Spirit have sent Me.” This is further hinting at the doctrine of the trinity, which becomes very clear in the New Testament. There are many other Old Testament Scriptures that hint at the same idea.
In Matthew 28:18–20 Jesus command His disciples to baptize His followers in the name (singular) of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. John’s Gospel tells us that “the Word” is God who became man in Jesus Christ (John 1:1–3, 14). Jesus was fully man and fully God. Many other verses combine together to teach that God is triune.
As a start on a thorough discussion on this topic, the chart in pic related is an accumulation of many of the passages that show the deity of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
>>1136396
The humanity of Jesus is as equally important as the deity of Jesus. Jesus was born as a human being while still being totally divine. The concept of the humanity of Jesus co-existing with His deity is difficult for the finite mind of man to comprehend. Nevertheless, Jesus’ nature, wholly man and wholly God, is a biblical fact.
Jesus had to be born as a human being for several reasons. One is outlined in Galatians 4:4–5: “But when the time had fully come, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons.” Only a man could be “born under the law.” No animal or angelic being is “under the law.” Only humans are born under the law, and only a human being could redeem other human beings born under the same law. Born under the law of God, all humans are guilty of transgressing that law. Only a perfect human, Jesus Christ, could perfectly keep the law and perfectly fulfill the law, thereby redeeming us from that guilt. Jesus accomplished our redemption on the cross, exchanging our sin for His perfect righteousness (2 Corinthians 5:21).
>>1136396
>>1138191
Another reason Jesus had to be fully human is that God established the necessity of the shedding of blood for the remission of sins (Leviticus 17:11; Hebrews 9:22). The blood of animals, although acceptable on a temporary basis as a foreshadowing of the blood of the perfect God-Man, was insufficient for the permanent remission of sin because “it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins” (Hebrews 10:4). Jesus Christ, the perfect Lamb of God, sacrificed His human life and shed His human blood to cover the sins of all who would ever believe in Him. If He were not human, this would have been impossible.
Furthermore, the humanity of Jesus enables Him to relate to us in a way the angels or animals never can. “For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet was without sin” (Hebrews 4:15). Only a human could sympathize with our weaknesses and temptations. In His humanity, Jesus was subjected to all the same kinds of trials that we are, and He is, therefore, able to sympathize with us and to aid us. He was tempted; He was persecuted; He was poor; He was despised; He suffered physical pain; and He endured the sorrows of a lingering and most cruel death. Only a human being could experience these things, and only a human being could fully understand them through experience.
Finally, it was necessary for Jesus to come in the flesh because believing that truth is a prerequisite for salvation. Declaring that Jesus has come in the flesh is the mark of a spirit from God, while the Antichrist and all who follow him will deny it (1 John 4:2–3). Jesus has come in the flesh; He is able to sympathize with our human frailties; His human blood was shed for our sins; and He was fully God and fully Man. These are biblical truths that cannot be denied.
>>1138199
So. God wasn't powerful enough to forgive human sins without making a son and killing him to forgive the sins he created.
>>1136567
>He doesn't understand basic algebraic principles.
>>1136807
Satan is only 666, not 6666 you newfag.
>>1138013
>Yet time did not always exist.
>There was a time where time did not exist
>This is what one of the most intelligent and well-read Christians on the internet actually believes
Let's assume that the Trinity is a mystery, or at least that there are incomprehensible aspects of Christianity.
Why do Christians believe what they don't understand?
>>1138310
>There was a time where time did not exist
No, it's not a time, anymore than the absence of space is space (which would be the same thing, since spacetime is one continuum, not two separate contina).
>>1138314
I'm pretty sure a lot of people who don't understand quantum mechanics still believe in them.
>>1138359
But the phrase "always" is incomprehensible within a reference frame outside of time, and the idea of causation depends on time, unless you're talking about logical entities, which God and time are not.
>>1138314
because not understanding doesn't have anything to do with salvation
>>1138360
But they don't think about quantum mechanics, and they don't base their decisions on quantum mechanics.
>>1138365
I mean as, "There is no time in which the Son does not exist." Although even more accurately, the Son transcends spacetime,but his existence is due to the Father, but his existence is eternal and eternally due to the Father's, the Father's eternal existence eternally furnishes the Son's existence.
>>1138369
Well, a lot of people don't know how whether forecasts work, yet they believe in those and base decisions on them. A lot of people don't know how cars work, yet they believe in those and factor their existence into their decisions. A lot of people don't know the exact process of how various foods and items are manufactured, yet they believe in those and base their decisions on their existence.
>>1138376
*weather forecasts
>>1136255
Three different execution threads of the same program.
>>1138376
The difference is that although most people do not know how forecasts work, there are people who do.
Whereas if you have a situation where no one does... Well...
>>1138376
Except anyone has the ability to research topics they're interested in. They can learn every intricacy of a car's functions if they choose.
>>1138370
If the Son's existence is due to the Father, and is being eternally furnished by the Father's existence, then how is the Son equal to the Father?
Doesn't that mean the Father can still exist independently of the Son? So wouldn't that make Arianism correct?
>>1138051
>It's relying on mechanics derived purely from empiricism.
And empiricism is derived purely from rationalism
>>1136255
>I'm a bit confused about the Trinity.
That's because it's manifest nonsense. This is why religotards call it a "mystery", which is religion-speak for "don't think too much about it."
Water can be in 3 forms, solid, liquid or gas
The physical world is composed of time, space and matter. A trinity.
God is One, but manifests/reveals Himself to us in three Persons.
>Father
Eternal, omnipotent, omniscient God
>Son
God in human form, 100% man, 100% divine, the Word of God.
>Holy Spirit
God dwelling within us, every new believer gets the Holy Spirit to discern and grow.
>>1139076
0/10 poor bait
>>1139096
Is water also vapor and ice at the same time?
Is vapor also water and ice at the same time?
What about if the ice stops being the water temporarily?
>>1139096
The persons of the Trinity are not just God's "forms", he's not a Power Ranger. They are three distinct hypostases.
>>1139096
A good example is the analogy of Flatland.
Mr. Flat and Mrs. Flat can only perceive in 2 dimensions. They do not perceive us as 3D beings.
Stick your finger in their 2D paper world and you appear as a circle to them. Stick three fingers in their world and you appear as 3 circles to them.
So Mr. Flat starts the church of the one circles and Mrs. Flat starts the church of the three circles. Both of them had seen glimpses of me, but neither know who I really am, how big and immense.
Same goes for us when dealing with 4 dimensional/supernatural events.
God appeared to Moses in a burning bush, or to all the Israelites in the wilderness through a thundering cloud.
>>1139111
>Sabellianism
>>1139104
God doesn't need three existences to love itself.
>>1136430
Where are those accents supposed to be from? They aren't Irish
>>1136255
This thread seems like Flatland trying to understand a report regarding a 3rd dimensional object interaction.
Oddly enough, the majority of the posters here likely believe in 11 dimensions. Place the same concepts in a pseudo scientific, cross dimensional/time travel novel, and it would be accepted much more intensely here than in an ancient mileau.
>>1136255
The way some apologists usually explain is to consider Trinity like Cerberus. Every person of the Trinity is distinct from each other, just like the heads of Cerberus. At the same time those three persons are one being, just like Cerberus is one being.
>>1136521
>F=1, S=2, H=3
OK
>1 =/= 2 =/= 3
OK
>G = F+S+H
>6 = 1+2+3
OK
>G = F
>6 = 1
Not OK
>G = S
>6 = 2
Not OK
>G = H
>6 = 3
Not OK
former christian, the holy spirit is not in the bible neither is the holy trinity. don't worry about that bullshit
>>1136450
essence.
God stuff, basically.
So the persons of the Trinity all share the same unidivided God essense.
>A=X
>B=X
>C=X
>A!=B!=C
>this is what Christians actually believe
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>1136255
>I'm a bit confused about the trinity
You are in a long line of people going back over a thousand years.
The chart sums it up. Essentially they are all god, they all have the essence of god in them, but they are not each other.
>>1139395
You are aware novels are works of fiction, right?
No one reads a time travel novel and thinks "this is real".
>>1136255
I'll explain: Satan lies and manipulates the bible, his sons agree that this is the actual true contents of the bible.
The proof? They are very sure and faithful of this doctrine, they don't lack any faith at all, but for some reason they are unable to do a single fucking miracle.
Because you know, the first thing a loving father (God) does to His sons the moment He sees them?
>Delicous pork is forbidden and evil!
>If your son behaves like a kid (that is, is disobedient to his parents) do make sure to murder him with stones!
>If you have a disability you may not approach me!
Three examples are good for OT, there's much more, everyone knows how shit goes in OT.
New Testament:
>Oh yeah, if somebody has a habit of slapping you in the face repeatedly keep forgiving him and turn the other cheek, you have to be forgiving him forever and keep being slapped!
>Truth is money and riches are to good for you, so you sell them and give them among everybody that's poor (wasn't the world filled with demons? Are you telling me to make demons richer at the same time I make myself poorer?)
>Love your enemies!
>I am not here to change the law but to accomplish it, but from now on, the law is going to be fucking different
>the devil totally took me to a very high mountain where everything could be seen because the earth is flat, guise
>don't defend yourselves in court!
>ask and it shall be given to you:
*When I was believing in jesus I asked and didn't receive
*When I decided to ask for things after choosing to ask God to send me His actual people to teach me His actual ways, the moment I started asking for things I started receiving them, example being an xbox one which is coming in the mail, I'm fucking broke and I got a surprise payment that I wasn't expecting which I could use to afford it with my favourite games at that.
>The devils confess that Jesus is the Son of God. According to 1 John 4:15, this is a big no-no when choosing a Christ.
>>1138251
Please go ahead and describe what "algebraic principles" you used to properly algebraically describe it.
>>1139480
That's exactly my point. Jesus can't be the same or equal to God (transitively) and simultaneously be not equal (as in the not the same, different in some essential way) in the same respect. It's a straight forward logical contradiction.
>>1139395
We can 'understand' 4 dimensional objects just fine in logical and deconstructional ways. We just can't physically visualize it (perhaps. Some people claim they can. It is an open debate I suppose since there doesn't seem to be any conclusive way to prove that we necessarily can't)
The point is, 4 dimensional objects aren't allowed to violate logic and can be understood and expressed through lower dimensions. Anything beyong the 2nd dimension can be understood in 2 dimensions, it just takes greater and greater amounts of information, but it's never fundamentally impossible. See: holographic theory for instance.
god is magic, it doesn't have to explain shit
>>1139605
>1 John 4:15
>James 2:19
What?
>>1139678
>We just can't physically visualize it (perhaps. Some people claim they can. It is an open debate I suppose since there doesn't seem to be any conclusive way to prove that we necessarily can't)
That's a really interesting and open question. Cognition in and of itself is simply information processing, the only difference between a three-dimensional brain and a four-dimensional one - topology aside - is that the four-dimensional one would have a higher processing throughput on the count of more dimensions to connect neurons on. I don't see any reason why a three-dimensional brain cannot perceive the same concepts and objects as a four-dimensional one except for the lack of processing power.
>>1139888
It would be cancerous enough if it was at least on point, but it isn't.
Fuck the Holy Spirit
>>1136255
Fedora here, desert-people made up retarded things that are internally inconsistent, modern people are stuck with having to justify retarded broken ideas.
A=B=C
A=/=C
God works in mysterious ways and all that, so problem solved.
>>1136396
It blows your mind because it's hot bullshit. Arian pointed it out as such and the early church was so anally devastated that instead of refuting his objections on theological grounds Emperor Constantine simply outlawed his teachings. Arian never lost they simply told him to STFU.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism
>>1140530
Nice shitposting.
>>1140961
>I hate facts
Forget about it, yes, it's all just "hot bullshit". Whatever helps you sleep at night kiddo.
>>1140268
HERETIC
>>1141035
You seem to have a bit if a fuzzy idea of what a 'fact' entails.
Hint: it doesn't mean something in the bible.
>So the people came to Moses and said, "We have sinned, because we have spoken against the LORD and you; intercede with the LORD, that He may remove the serpents from us." And Moses interceded for the people. 8Then the LORD said to Moses, "Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a standard; and it shall come about, that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, he will live." 9And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived.…
Just shut the fuck up and believe! Now do you understand? We are talking about Aquaman, right?
>>1141226
What point do you think you're making by posting this biblical passage?
>>1139105
A metaphysical, transcendental form of Water is vapor, water and ice at the same time
>>1141388
It is just hilariously funny, anon.
I love Game of Thrones and the Lord of the Rings, that is why I like the Bible so much.
I like stories about talking animals and giants and magic wizards.
>When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she lay down under Balaam; so Balaam was angry and struck the donkey with his stick. 28And the LORD opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?" 29Then Balaam said to the donkey, "Because you have made a mockery of me! If there had been a sword in my hand, I would have killed you by now."…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgdFSL2A02U
>>1141444
>the creator of the Universe making animals talk thanks to His divine power is impossible xD
The day you will witness paranormal activity, you will either get a heart attack or start to believe.
Christians got it from Neoplatonism and Neoplatonism got it from the Chaldean Oracles.
>>1141427
>A metaphysical, transcendental form of Water
this is just a concept though. are you arguing God is nothing more than a concept?
>>1137726
3 persons that share the same being in eternity
>>1141589
According to this logic then every fruit is really just one fruit because they all share the being of fruitness.
>>1141507
>The day you will witness paranormal activity,
hahahahhahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhah
You seem to be struggling to discern reality from fantasy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9Jy2T0uQ9Y
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-echochambers-28537149
Do you believe Mohammad flew to the Moon on a winged horse and that Harry Potter has an invisibility cloak? Or are those the wrong magic books?
>>1141602
No it's according to your logic - you just tried to force an response.
Fruits are not absolute, they are creation.
Fruits are not eternal, and had a begging and forces to shape them.
God shares His being in three Persons because He is perfect in eternity. Love was never absent in God - Love cannot be alone, love in God was shared in three Persons in eternity - there was never a time when there were not three Persons.
All equal but one eternal in the role of Father, another in the role of Son and the Third in the role of the Holy Spirit.
>>1141643
>Fruits are not eternal
Then the gods of every polytheistic pantheon are really just one because they are eternal and share godhood. They're just different persons.
>>1141659
I'm not an cultist so I don't care or know what you as a cultist believe.
God nature an teachings were revealed by Himself in the human form and in His Apostolic church trough the Holy Spirit.
The only answer I've heard to the problem that the word trinity is not in the bible is that other concepts that are taken for granted by christians are not in the bible either, like the rapture. however, I'm not a christian so I have no problem saying its all bullshit, nearly all interpretations of the bible are flawed and self-serving.
>>1141619
You have to be 18 to post and browse this website.
>>1136988
>le fedora meme
>>1141778
Kek.
How old are you and what part of Pakistan do you come from?
>>1136255
That's normal.
>>1136255
From what I understand about the Trinity, it was made up from the Ante-Nicene fathers because everyone was like "this is retarded" but once they blew the smoke out of their ass that all 3 are both separate and not-separate entities at the same time people were like "oh well that makes more sense."
At the risk of sounding like le cringe atist god = 4 plebs, it's not like Christians have historically done much in the way of rational thinking (see: Salem, the Crusades, Ted Cruz, Jehovah's Witnesses)
>>1141836
>le imaginary friend meme
God is God.
>>1141879
Calm down Mohammad Mohammad. What part of Pakistan did you say you were from again?
>>1141897
I'm Catholic.
>>1141879
I am God
>>1141905
We know where that leads, silly atheist.
>>1139310
Love is a selfless expression, at least by the Christian understanding. So for God to love himself, he needs three selves.
>>1141903
C'mon. Be serious.
You can't possibly believe that wafers turn into human flesh.
>>1141911
God is not an atheist, silly mortal
>>1141912
or two
>>1141938
The point of three is that one is love is from/of one, by/through another, and in among/in the last. The Trinity does all things as one, for instance, the world was created from the Father, by the Son, and in the Holy Spirit.
>>1141950
where exactly did you get that love requires three beings? shall we make all marraiges be for three people?
>>1136833
>>1137315
Ok serious question here.
I don't follow a monotheist religion but I like to think about theology.
What exactly helps you differentiate between what the church says on a political level (ie, what the vatican eventually reluctantly changes) and what you do believe is true?
I mean, the mystery anwser holds if we supposed the existence of a specific interpretation of god. But since all of it is uncerain (comes from humans), wouldn't a particular sect of monotheism that doesn't bother with this piece of dogma be more right?
>>1141881
Yeah I'd like to know why you conveniently left out the insanity of Salem & Cruz (others) - do you cherrypick often or is it only when you get butthurt about your shit religion?
>>1141917
This "human flesh" is the Son of Man's.
>>1141996
>shit religion
It's responsible for the civilization and culture you're leeching off, kiddo.
>>1142018
It's also responsible for the oppression of women, scholars, scientists, and free-thinkers since the establishment of the Catholic Church -- Galileo ring a bell?
>>1142035
>responsible for the oppression of women
Meme.
>scholars, scientists, and free-thinkers
Stale meme.
You know that big bang theory you love so much? Do you know who you should thank for it? Georges Lemaître, a Belgian priest, astronomer and professor of physics at the Catholic University of Leuven.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_science
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jesuit_scientists
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Catholic_scientists
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_Catholic_cleric-scientists
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_and_technology
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZDj5nM0KbdUTEpoka1oyAR8BtHfIiVJm
>>1142018
>>It's responsible for the civilization and culture you're leeching off, kiddo.
Doesn't matter, we'd just have a different religion inspiring our culture instead and our civilization and culture owe as much to greece and rome as they do to any given jumped up mystery cult with delusions of grandeur.
>>1142065
The Word became flesh.
What don't you understand?
>>1142063
Ah, shit. I've fallen for the bait, haven't I?
RIP
>>1142035
>Galileo ring a bell?
Pic related.
>>1136455
Christians often declare other Christians heretics so this doesn't invalidate what the first desu desu senpai said
>>1142067
>that map
Wow you mean to tell me that the people who inherited the wealth and power of rome and were being pushed into the sea by the ottoman empire wound up colonizing the world? That's...actually not surprising at all. You stupid fuck.
>>The Word became flesh.
Meaningless statement.
>>What don't you understand?
How one fucking poster can be this fucking autistic.
>>1142083
>Meaningless statement.
For you.
>>1142072
Galileo was still unjustly imprisoned by a theocracy, you can't get around that. Nobody should be placed under house arrest for offending somebody.
>>1142086
Was trolling this thread part of your plan?
>>1141984
I didn't say love requires three beings, I say that three existences of God have to due the with the principle of how many can do all things together and as a circuit.
Marriage without children is pretty sorry. A marriage is the foundation of a family.
>>1142096
I am not trolling.
>>1141950
That doesn't make sense and is an unnecessary prerequisite for what you're saying, which is self love. There is no reason for God to need to love itself through a mediator.
>>1142110
Humor is lost on someone as zealous as you.
>>1142118
>
>>1142129
Frogposting isn't humorous in and of itself. Just posting a pepe doesn't make your post funny.
>>1142137
I am not trying to be funny.
>>1142147
I'm well aware of this, you are actually trying to take a gigantic christshit all over the thread because the cross signaled blared in your hovel when people started insulting your religion.
>>1142018
>It's responsible for the civilization and culture you're leeching off, kiddo.
That would be Hellenistic ingenuity coupled with Roman efficiency.
>>1142158
>How dare you defend the Son of Man!
>>1142174
>this is what atheists actually believe
>>1142177
Based Cat and Owl duo
>>1142191
shitpost elsewhere fampai
