What was the average Nazi soldier like? Were they brainwashed zealots that slaughtered Jews and had fun doing it like media like to portray them as?
Other than the SS there was no such thing as "nazi soldier". Just German soldiers. And yes they were people just like you and me.
>>1127320
Pretty much.
>>1127320
>Were they brainwashed zealots that slaughtered Jews and had fun doing it like media like to portray them as?
Yes.
most of them (prior to the draft in 1943) were soldiers who volunteered to be a part of something greater than themselves, the Wehrmacht for the most part carried out the military campaigns exclusively, leaving organizations under the direct command of the NSDAP to carry out exterminations programs.
Wherever the Wehrmacht advanced, the SS and the Einsatzgruppen would follow behind to round up ethnic and religious groups of interest, while the army continued fighting on the front line.
tl;dr - The Wehrmacht weren't zealots, they were soldiers. other groups such as the Einsatzgruppen and the Waffen SS, however, were the main executors of NSDAP extermination policies.
>>1127320
I don't know what the fuck you're talking about, OP. The media consistently whitewashes the wehrmacht, and underplays the instrumentality of the German Army in the Final Solution and other atrocities.
>NAZI soldier
You do realize that hardly anyone actually spoke like this during the war. I knew countless veterans from all sides, they were GERMAN. The British and Americans were at war with Germany.
The fact that kiddies in school learn that WW2 was some ideological crusade. They learn that all of the allies were Jewish-African-Americans fighting NAZIsm to liberate/avenge 6,000,000 Jews. Your entire post is probably b8, but if not, it goes to show how brainwashed YOU are. No one asks if the average American was a brainwashed zealot of Capitalism that slaughtered Japs and had fun doing it. Most of them were ordinary people that wanted to do good by their country.
I hate to sound edgy, lad, but I think you've been Jew'd.
>>1127398
Just to add: I have met people that unironically believe that we fought WW2 because of the holocaust.
>>1127398
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht
>>1127398
>No one critically examines war crimes or ideological indoctrination in the Pacific Theater.
Wew, lad.
>>1127320
well, they had reached a point of radicalism, not because of racism or nationalism, but because for a decade or so, the French and British were bleeding Germany dry of all their food and money and resources.
So no matter what they heard, or were told, they knew they were fighting a war against nations that were forcing them and their families to starve, and suffer under their brutal war.
So when a charming man spoke to their radicalism, the people rallied. He ended their poverty (not by anything intelligent, he just told the French and British fuck off), and gave them back land they lost after WWI (which Germany actually won, but all the ground Germany gained actually bankrupted them in WWI, because holding ground did not have the same benefits in machine gun warfare. This, as well as the US joining the war on the allies side, meant even though Germany won, and the German people should not have been subdued, it was, and they were.
So a pissed off young man, hearing stories about his dead father's bravery, only to know the victory his father died for was taken away for seemingly no reason. "Why did Germany surrender? We won! It must have been corruption at the deepest level. It must be the Jews!" As the Jews had a long history of Christians hating on them, because non-Christians threatened the power of the Church. So that traditional hatred is the one that was expressed in WWII.
It's all very complex really.
>>1127417
Not him but you're right. But what he means is, before going into war they didnt plan on turning into animals, war did that. War breeds hatred
>War is hell
>>1127401
>They were all evil, only monsters born that way could become like that!
These people were just like us, yes many did commit war crimes but before that they were no different from you or I. Maybe try reading a book sometime.
>>1127473
But that's not true. There was loads of government money, in combination with Hollywood talent trying to dehumanize the Japanese in the minds of soldiers and marines, and they were doing so based on an ideological background stretching back decades, if not centuries.
German society generally didn't care about the Jews, anti-Jewish Nazi fanaticism took a backseat to ideals of Make Germany Great Again. For most Germans, WWII was simply a continuation of WWI except this time was more hardcore. The overarching feeling was: "if our sons don't win this war, our grandsons will be forced to undergo a third massive war"
The feelings of the average German soldier also had a huge range, some were patriots fighting for lost German glory, some were ardent NatSocs, some just hated Commies and wanted to fuck them up, and some were deeply disturbed by the direction the country was going but had no choice but to fight.
For more information on how German society lived, take a gander at http://www.amazon.com/German-War-Nation-Under-Arms/dp/0465018998
>>1127503
Ordinary Men completely fucking torpedoes muh clean wehrmacht.
>>1127491
And most of them were Nazis. Although as reserve police battalion 101 demonstrated, anyone can end up being an evil Nazi prick, that doesn't excuse their behavior at all.
Watch Generation War
>>1127509
The argument isn't about clean Wehrmacht, it's about whether normal people can commit war crimes.
>>1127320
To answer that question, one could point to the Gas Chambers, actually.
It has nothing to do with efficiency.
In the initial phases of atrocities against the Jews, units did the more convential thing of rounding them up and shooting several mags into them. Over time, discipline in these Death Squads went to shit. Alcoholism was widespread. Lo and behold, the men willing to kill "enemies of the state" found the slaughter unbearable to their pysche.
So in a way, the gas chambers were a humanitarian innovation, but to benefit fanatics with human hearts.
>>1127525
>The argument isn't about clean Wehrmacht
>muh clean Wehrmacht myth
> the Wehrmacht for the most part carried out the military campaigns exclusively, leaving organizations under the direct command of the NSDAP to carry out exterminations programs.
>Other than the SS there was no such thing as "nazi soldier". Just German soldiers.
>>1127503
This. i actually just read the book and it describes my point perfectly. The majority of members from Battalion 101 were from Hamburg, a liberal city. They had absolutely no connections to the nazi's and most were probably not even anti-semitic. It still didn't stop them from participating in the slaughter of thousands of people.
>>1127495
But that didnt ramp up until the war started im assuming. Using propaganda from past time stereotypes to vilify the enemy isnt uncommon.
>>1127450
>Germany won WW1
>>1127506
>European society generally didnt favor the jews
Ftfy
>>1127552
Well, yes, and no. Notions of Japanese and Asian Racial inferiority were hardly new elements to American culture in 1942, the emphasis was just in a different place. And it's not simply to vilify, but to dehumanize the enemy. The distinction between propaganda aimed at the Germans and the Japanese is very clear until the very last weeks of the war. The German is evil because of Nazi ideology. The Japanese is evil because of his racial character.
And if you read authors like Russel Weigley and Anders Stevenson, the American ideological inclination towards wars of extermination go back to pre-revolutionary times.
But where it's started is besides the point. Anon claimed, in his desperate scramble to whitewash the heer, "No one asks if the average American was a brainwashed zealot of Capitalism that slaughtered Japs and had fun doing it."
That's simply not true: there's loads of academic work out there examining the what, when, why and how of American ideological preparation for war crimes.
>>1127320
From the 1930s right up until Barbarossa the average German soldier was, I would argue, no more brainwashed or evil than anyone else. But The idea that the Wehrmacht was blameless for the atrocities on the Eastern Front is bullshit. Several weeks before Barbarossa Keitel issued a decree which said " For acts which members of the Wehrmacht or its retinue commit against enemy civilians, there is no compulsion to prosecute, even when the act represents at the same time a military crime or offense." It also allowed officers to shoot suspected enemies, civilian or otherwise, without trial. It mentions too that "Collective drastic action will be taken immediately against communities from which treacherous or insidious attacks against the Wehrmacht are launched". This resulted in the Wehrmacht massacring civilians in numerous villages such as Kondomari, Putten and Kommeno. Those who support the 'clean wehrmacht myth' will no doubt tell you that after the decree was issued restraints were placed upon it. However, this was for the sole purpose of army discipline as opposed to any moral consideration.Co-operation with the Einsatzgruppen and the SS was also very close, with the Wehrmacht providing logistical support. Without this support, the slaughter of millions of innocents would not have been possible. From the beginning of Barbarossa German propaganda was portraying anti-German partisans as inseparable from the Jews. It was under this pretense of 'anti-partisan' work that the Wehrmacht committed many of its crimes. Because the Nazis came to regard the USSR and the Jews as the same enemy, eventually so did some of the Wehrmacht. Anti-semitism was particularly prevalent among junior officers; the historian Richard J Evans notes that in 1941 one third were Nazi Party members. In conclusion the majority of crimes were committed by the SS and Einsatzgruppen but not without the support and sometimes active involvement of the Wehrmacht. They were not blameless
>>1127537
Easier to find men to spend all day dragging bodies covered in poison that apparently kills quickly if it gets into the lungs?
>>1127511
Who is making excuses?
The point is they didn't do what they did because they were brainwashed robots, they did what they did because it was expected of them.
>If I don't shoot this kid they'll just get one of my buddies to do it.
>I don't want my buddy to have this on his conscious, I'll do this so he doesn't have to.
>repeat x10
>Suddenly killing kids doesn't become a problem anymore.
>>1127495
I'm sure the Rape of Nanking, the attack on Pearl Harbour and the systematic war crimes carried out by the Japanese on POWS and civilians on a scale with Nazi Germany did more to dehumanize them in the eyes of the Americans than any amount of propaganda. Considering that much of the tension between the US and the Japenese was over Japanese aggression towards the Chinese I don't know how much racial ideology had to do with anything.
>>1127589
That work was done by Sonderkommandos.
>>1127589
Refrain from licking the bodies and wash your hands afterwards and you'll be fine.
>>1127540
"Other than the SS there was no such thing as "nazi soldier". Just German soldiers."
That last part is true. Germany is a country, and the Werhmacht was it's armed forces. The Nazis were a political party and the SS was it's armed forces. I wouldn't say the Democratic Army to refer to the US military, or say Conservative Soldiers of Canada fought in Afghanistan, or things like that. Soldiers can belong to a party, or believe in it, but they are still soldiers of that nation, not of the party itself.
>>1127589
Easier than watching them die from bullets, being buried alive, etc.
>>1127320
this question is stupid and loaded. You have already pointed out that the media portrays the average german soldier as a evil man because you believe the opposite. I have found though, especially in the west that there is much sentiment that the average German was not a murdering barbarian. This was only helped through the perpetration of the clean Wehrmacht myth.
>>1127369
this! the media only continues to hold to the clean whremacht which is a complete myth.
>>1127622
I read a book once on the actual procedure of the camps. Most of the actual work was carried out by the Jews themselves formed into workgangs. The gassing was basically one guy would show up and drop the gas into the chamber and then fuck off until the next group was ready to go. The overwhelming majority of the camp's personnel were not directly involved in very much, and even then an army with 20 million people devoting even a couple hundred thousand to manning the camps is not a particularly significant percentage.
>>1127450
What the fuck am I reading
>>1127398
Go to sleep grandpa
>Were they brainwashed zealots that slaughtered Jews and had fun doing it like media like to portray them as
I don't know where this meme comes from. The most famous WW2 among people our age is Saving Private Ryan and this is never shown. It isn't shown in Band of Brothers either. Where are people getting this crap from?
>>1127450
>Nazi Germany
>Christian
wew lad
>>1127320
This depends on the branch, Wehrmacht or SS and the time of the war. Late in the war the SS even conscripted russian POW's.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS
My grandpa was drafted into the Wehrmacht, he was just a 19 year old kid that worked at a post office. He had to transmit messages on a relay truck. He didn't want to be drafted and got lucky to be sent to France. He said no one really was motivated anymore when the Americans took Normandy, he narrowly escaped death in the Battle of the Bulge and surrendered a few weeks later to the Americans. Spend some time in a POW camp and went back to working for the german post. He said he never liked the war, he never did believe in the cause of national socialism. He was just a kid that had never left his hometown before the war. He told me that he had never travelled by train before the war.
>>1127450
maximum ebin 10/10 :DDDD
No.
>>1128612
But... he's right. The attitude of french in reconquered Alsace-Lorraine towards germans was very hostile and they'd use the coal miners and workers basically like slaves. Couple that with immense reparations that Allies demanded and it's easy to see how an average german would feel humiliated and desperate. IMO Hitler wasn't even that charismatic, he was just able to use the circumstances provided to radicalize a small group and then regular peeps started joining in due to a snowball effect.
>>1128638
>But... he's right.
>WWI (which Germany actually won
>But... he's right.>But... he's right.
>But... he's right.>But... he's right.
>But... he's right.
>But... he's right.>But... he's right.>But... he's right.
>But... he's right.>But... he's right.>But... he's right.>But... he's right.>But... he's right.
>But... he's right.
>>1128638
You're full of shit
People in Alsace-Lorraine were French
German occupiers left after WW1 and the locals (French people) were well treated since they were French
The thing you're thinking of was the Rhur occupation
Why can't German apologists ever get their facts right?
>>1127320
there was definiatly some zealotry in the wehrmacht, i mean thats what propaganda does and the nazis hade plenty of it
https://cbweaver.wikispaces.com/file/view/Stalingrad+Primary+Accounts.pdf
mabey not the best example but you can see glimpses of it in the begining of the diary, also its a good fucking read
>>1127401
>all wehrmacht was evil sadists
t. brainwashed underage retard
the anti partisan campaigns were carried out by wehrmacht units supported by hiwis and alike collaborators
and by anti partisan i mean killing/harrasing/destroying property of civilians who may or may not came in contact with partisans
you cant generalize
some officers punished brutality and alike, others encouraged volunteering for the einsatzgruppes
the regular german soldier dindonuffin is a meme
just like every german soldier being a nazi berserker
>>1128704
>People in Alsace-Lorraine were French
They were speaking a German dialect. Who knows how many still identified as French after the territory had been part of Germany for almost 50 years. It's not like the French actually asked them in a referendum.
>the locals (French people) were well treated since they were French
Well, the French government conducted a policy of assimliation which resulted in some political resistance by autonomist parties and organizations.
>>1127537
>gas chambers
the soviets drilled in those holes after the war.
>b-but i got gassed 7 times!
>>1128603
>Americans took Normandy,
*Allies took Normandy
>>1128996
That's why we have ariel photos of them with holes on the roofs before the soviets liberated the concentration camps right? Back to /pol/ with you, mongoloid.
A. Most of the German SS were heavily radicalized, huge d00shes with their new highly inflated ego; but still very good combat troops
B. SS divisions made from foreign troops were much less radicalized and genuinely just being soilders
C. The Wermacht were realtivly simple German folk caught up in the war, fighting because they were in a war and defending their country; however certain divisions were noted for their participation in atrocities notably the prison divisions that were let off their leash
D. Faggots in this thread like
>>1127401
>>1127503
>>1127548
Are going to be faggots and want to demonize absolutely everything.
The vast majority of crimes were commited by anti-partizan forces like the E. Gruppen and SS.
>>1129892
Way to be a complete retard and miss the point of my post entirely. Battalion 101 killed thousands of innocent people and weren't even Nazis.
What media shows the wehrmacht soldiers as brainwashed zealots? The media always shows the wehrmacht as conflicted soldiers following sociopathic ss officers.
A lot of soldiers in WWII were farmers that couldn't read, why does everyone think people were so keen top die for anything except surviving
>>1129927
Prove each and every one was innocent.
I'm pretty sure thousand were killed by allied bomber pilots
>>1127320
Most units had nothing to do with killing Jews or anyone else. Most supported the regime and had nationalistic views of varying degrees, with a core of 10-20% being die-hard Nazis.
>>1129927
Battalion 101 were MPs under the control of the SS. try again
>>1129927
Did you even read his post?
He pointed out the horrible atrocities of the prison battalions.
>>1127411
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes_of_the_Wehrmacht
Why don't people address this?
>>1130044
Please tell me what the Tribunal ruled, friend (^:
>>1130054
>be judged to not be a criminal organization
>because too poorly organized to be considered an organization
lel
>>1130101
Are we going to go with the facts, and how the IMT ruled, or some Jew ruling beyond his legal bounds?
(^:
They technically commited "No war crimes", they did commit some atrocities (mainly penal battalions).
But nothing in comparison to the Gruppen or the SS
>>1127320
>thinly-veiled DINDU NUFFIN thread
It's a situation where doing the normal average thing includes shooting civilians, so no matter what their mental dispositions are, they deserved it.
>>1130108
I don't think people here are comparing the Wehrmacht to the SS... they're simply highlighting that the Wehrmacht wasn't clean at all and that not everyone was just a poor guy honestly fighting for their family and other sob stories like that, like many naziboos like to claim.
>>1130140
The vast majority were ordinary German folk fighting for their country.
The ones that did commit atrocities most notably were penal battalions or ones commanded by SS officers.
There's no sob stories here.
>>1127450
>It's all very complex really
Damn, you really cracked that case wide open didn't ya sherlock
heard they felt pretty bad as they marched back home after being defeated and heard about the wholesale gang rapes of their wives, daughters, and little sisters
some even cried a bit, it is said
it's where the term "Sad Fritz" comes from
>>1130108
>This has often been misconstrued, not the least by German World War Two veterans that the IMT ruled that the Wehrmacht was not a "criminal organization" because the Wehrmacht committed no war crimes.
>>1127320
>war people were mean
More breaking news at five
>>1130017
Doesn't change the fact that the majority of the members in the battalion weren't nazis or even believed in the ideology of the nazi party.
>>1130193
In technicality they commited no war crimes (^;
>>1130294
Where does it say that? :^)
>>1130316
The IMTs report (^:
