Does Christianity/Judaism allow for the existence of other Gods?
*The plurality of Gods is directly stated in Genesis when it says the Gods descended to earth and had children with mortals. Because it uses the plural "Gods" this means there must be more than one God.
*God never really denies that other Gods exist, just that you should not worship them.
*Dead Sea Scrolls outright mention other Gods existing and being in a relationship with Yawheh.
*Hellenistic Jews even thought it was ok to "venerate" Greek Gods as long as you did not worship them.
Who cares?
>>1126567
Apparently OP does.
>>1126562
>*The plurality of Gods is directly stated in Genesis when it says the Gods descended to earth and had children with mortals. Because it uses the plural "Gods" this means there must be more than one God.
isn't is "sons of God" not just Gods?
>>1126588
Fair play.
>>1126562
Of course, it even outright admits they exist.
Exodus 12:12
against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.
>>1126562
No. There is no God except Allah, that's why he's called The God.
>>1126786
>Does Christianity/Judaism allow for the existence of other Gods?
>Christianity/Judaism
No one cares about your stone cube cult.
>>1126786
Is this a new strategy?
Islamic Fundamentalism as a counter-action against Christian one?
>>1126825
were under too many layers of counter-action.
>>1126835
>Implying this this Autism may ever reach to far
>>1126562
Yes
The Church Fathers called them devils
and never forget
Psalm 96:5
>>1126598
sons of El you mean. that's what the gods were called
Anything that says it's a god other than God is a demon. Demons always want to exalt themselves above God
Belief in god is absurd
>>1126562
Have you made offerings to Pallas Athena today?
>>1127359
Jesus is a demon confirmed
>>1126562
The Wikipedia article on Yahweh is surprisingly unbiased and scientific, treating him as a downright Near Eastern deity and not as "God", with a capital G. Anyway the relevant part:
>After the 9th century BCE the tribes and chiefdoms of Iron Age I were replaced by ethnic nation states, Israel, Judah, Moab, Ammon and others, each with its national god, and all more or less equal:[31][32] thus Chemosh was the god of the Moabites, Milcom the god of the Ammonites, Qaus the god of the Edomites, and Yahweh the "God of Israel" (no "God of Judah" is mentioned anywhere in the Bible).[33][34] In each kingdom the king was the head of the national religion and God's viceroy on Earth,[35] reflected each year in Jerusalem when the king presided over a ceremony at which Yahweh was enthroned in the Temple.[36]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh
It was only after the Babylonian captivity that the butthurt Yahweh priests began with the there is no God but Yahweh bs.
>>1127373
this can be seen in the Meshe Stele. It almost reads exactly like Judges but with Chemosh instead of Yahweh. Chemosh gets angry at Moab and allows them to be subjugated by Israel but then changes his mind and helps them overthrow Israel
>>1127359
>Anything that says it's a god other than God
But isn't one of the characteristics of demons that they are flawless liars? How is a human to know a demon from God? Doubly so if he has to rely on a written account or on some priest, he doesn't actually hear god OR the demons himself, just has sheepish faith that they're real.
>>1127373
>It was only after the Babylonian captivity that the butthurt Yahweh priests began with the there is no God but Yahweh bs.
Relevant
>>1126562
Not in there modern forms at the very least. Probably never with Chirstianity, save some "heretical" sects that viewed Jesus and the father as separate.
Nor would any modern sect of Jews that I know of endorse the idea. Bits of Henotheism are littered around the early books of the bible as a throwback to those beliefs but today its rejected out right
>>1126562
>Does Christianity/Judaism allow for the existence of other Gods?
Why do you care about the opinion of these pathological liars?
>>1127373
>The Wikipedia article on Yahweh is surprisingly unbiased and scientific
That's because they forked off all the religious material into separate articles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Judaism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Christianity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Islam
>>1127359
Wew lad
Wanna a cite a source for that?
>>1127591
The Holy Bible
>>1127421
>pagan shits getting BTFO
sounds right
>>1127598
Not a valid source outside of your sunday school class kiddo.
>>1127362
sorry, i reserve all my seminal offerings for the virgin mary.
>>1126955
But reaching too far is the defining characteristic of autism.
It certainly doesn't allow for the existence of other gods who are God.
However, I think it could allow for the existence of spirits and beings who call themselves gods, but are actually not God and therefore ultimately not deserving of worship.
Basically what >>1126644 says. It's alluded to in the Bible.
>>1126562
dunno about Judaism, but Christian theology's understanding of what God is makes true polytheism a logical impossibility. (tl;dr Christianity conceives of God as being an ultimate, infinite being -- you can't have two infinities)
any other "being" would necessarily be a creature...so other religions "gods" would only be capable of claiming something akin to the rank of "angel" or "demon".
certainly powerful, but not "God".
it's really just an autistic shit show as to what "God" means though.
>>1128579
>Christian theology's understanding
But this is the understanding of Plato and Aristotle. In Plato the demiurge creates the other gods to serve as intermediaries between him and creation so he can be perfectly exempt and transcendent. The Greek philosophers would have found absurd the notion that the supreme God would have had to do work (and rest)! And in Aristotle God is absorbed into contemplation of himself, as human and natural matters are too lowly for him, but the universe is ordered after God as the final cause.
>>1128717
What I'm trying to say is, they didn't find contradictory to have a chief god and intermediary gods. Christianity just calls the other gods angels.
No.
The 'gods' of paganism refer to fallen angels and the nephilim.
>>1127821
>a history book is not a valid source
bait harder
>>1128732
And the proof that the Hebrews of ancient Judea believed this is what exactly?
>>1128736
>>bible
>>history book
lolololololololololololololololol
no.
Even if most of the events in the OT were historically accurate and verifiable that still wouldn't make the supernatural events outlined in your holy book credible.
>>1128737
It's basically just connecting the dots.
Pretty much all paganism talks about a being falling from heaven and giving us "knowledge" and "intellect", ancient aliens style.
Prometheus, Belzebub, Moloch, Baal, Kronos, Saturn, Allah, Satan goes by many names.
The God of the Bible = Logos, Enlil, Adonai, YHWH, the ultimate creator.
"god" is a title. it can refer to any deity being worshipped.
God with a capital G refers to the creator who sits on the throne of Heaven.
>>1128742
It's a history book, deal with it.
Everything in the Bible happened.
You can stay in denial, that's not gonna change anything.
>>1128749
>>It's basically just connecting the dots.
So you don't actually have a source for the ancient hebrews believing that other people's gods were demons then.
You could have just said that and not spouted multiple sentences of bullshit you realize.
>God creates the world
>God creates angels, animals, man
>Lucifer, the most glorious angel, rebels against God
>1/3 of the angels join his cause
>Lucifer and his host lose the war and are cast out of heaven, relegated to our world (this is where UFOs and aliens come in)
>Lucifer becomes known as Satan, the adversary and accuser
>Satan tricks Adam and Eve
>Mankind falls from grace
>God promises a saviour
>World is under the influence of the devil, because Adam forfeited man's right of dominion
>Occult societies work on Satan's agenda
>Pagan civilizations rise and the stories and legends of pre-flood giants and fallen angels are romanticized and become their gods
>God chooses a nation of His own to be seperate and clean from the heathens, out of which the promised messiah would come
Pagans worshipped created beings, not God.
God was referred to in some ways, i.e Logos in Greek mythology or Enlil in Babylonian legends, but they are warped and erroneous views of God because Paganism is from Satan.
When you look at the Sumerian text, it says the same shit as the Bible except everything is inverted, Satan is the good guy and God is the bad guy.
Satan is a deceiver, liar and manipulator and he is responsible for all the evil and wickedness in the world.
He has lost in 33 AD, so now it's just a desperate attempt to bring as many people to hell with him as possible. He's being pretty succesful, considering how many people actually believe in the evolution myths and false religions.
Broad is the way that leadeth to destruction.
Every person is accountable for his actions.
Every person will answer infront of God.
>>1128753
>>Everything in the Bible happened.
Hmm, no it didn't.
>>You can stay in denial, that's not gonna change anything.
Amusing coming from someone who thinks that genesis is real. You're the one in denial here fuckwad.
>>1128773
Yes it did.
There is too many evidences to ignore.
>>1128767
>>all this bullshit
You have no reliable source for this other then your own imagination and hilariously dumb crank websites on the internet.
>>1128773
>You're the one in denial here fuckwad
says the moron who believes he came from a rock
>>1128776
No.
There is no evidence that the events in genesis happened. There was no global flood, no race of giants, no descent of humankind from two people etc.
These things are mythology, not history.
>>1128779
>It's wrong because I say so!
You don't like it because it conflicts with your worldview.
Cognitive dissonance, you suffer from it.
Seek help.
>>1128780
>>creationist calling someone else a moron while he demonstrates his hilarious lack of understanding of current evolutionary theory.
inb4 a hilariously retarded misunderstanding of what a theory is to scientists.
>>1128782
>There was no global flood
Yes there was. A simple look at continents and fossil layers will tell you that.
>no race of giants
Yes there was. A simple look at excavated skeletons and bones.
>no descent of humankind from two people
Yes there was. Why are we here talking to eachother then?
>>1128784
Nah, it's wrong because like an imbecilic chimpanzee you are merely throwing shit at the walls in order to see what sticks.
>>1128787
There is zero scientific evidence for the theory of evolution.
It's all assumptions, circular reasoning, smokescreen and government funding that keeps it alive.
>>1128790
>imbecilic chimpanzee
You're the one who believes your grandpa was a monkey.
Delusional atheist.
>>1128788
>>Yes there was. A simple look at continents and fossil layers will tell you that.
You understand absolutely nothing about the fossil record.
>>Yes there was. A simple look at excavated skeletons and bones.
Oh look, more bullshit.
>>Yes there was. Why are we here talking to eachother then?
This literally makes no sense. I'm posting this stuff out of boredom and a desire to laugh at a retard.
>>1128800
Do you have any proof for evolution?
Judaism was originally henotheistic
>>1128800
get wrecked
>>1128801
Not on me no, but talkorigins.org has stuff you can read about it.
What proof do you have for the bible being anything other then a load of made up nonsense?
>>1128805
Oh look, an image pulled from some random crank website, how compelling.
>>1128808
>anything that disagrees with me is crank
Cognitive dissonance
>>1128814
Hmm no. This is just stuff you're getting from random creationist websites on the internet.
>>1128814
I'll just tell you this:
Maximinus Thrax:
>In May 238, soldiers of the II Parthica in his camp assassinated him, his son, and his chief ministers. Their heads were cut off, placed on poles, and carried to Rome by cavalrymen
He wasn't buried normally, it's highly unlikely that they've found his remains(or even the skull itself), I don't see any mentions about finding his body/skeleton anywhere.
>>1126562
"In my father's house are many rooms" seems to imply the afterlife isn't monolithic. Perhaps other gods are aspects of Yahweh in the same way Vishnu and co are aspects of Brahman.
>>1128821
And how is that any different from you getting your stuff from evolutionist websites?
>>1128840
>>evolutionist websites
You mean talkorigins as site run by people who either have actual degrees in biology or are at least working with the people who do?
Pretty sure that's a better source then some crank website run by some idiot with a degree from a diploma mill.
>>1128853
http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html
Evolution is a myth, literally a fairy tale.
The Bible is scientifically accurate and true.
>>1128866
>>newgeology.us
Oh look, a crank website.
>>1128866
Are you american or just retarded?
>>1128875
>talkorigins
Oh look, a crank website.
You're acting like a kid throwing a temper tentrum.
>>1128885
I'm American and I think he's retarded.
>>1128885
You haven't refuted any arguments.
>>1128887
Actual biologists aren't cranks. Nice try.
>>1128895
Still haven't posted any proof for evolution or refuted creation arguments.
>>1128894
You haven't offered any other then muh buybull and muh bullshit pictures from random lunatics.
>>1128897
don't bother
atheists are extremely retarded
just ignore him
>>1128899
http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html
The ball is in your court.
>>1128897
>creation arguments
>>1128899
>You haven't offered any other then muh buybull and muh bullshit pictures from random lunatics.
>haven't posted any proof for evolution
I'm not a biologist, but if you want you can go to talkorigins. Or you can look up some of thunderfoot's videos on the topic if you prefer.
>>1128904
random links from your crank website are proof only of your own dementia.
>>1128907
>talkorigins
>thunderfoot
You can't be serious.
You actually believe this shit?
Mr Fedora has been BTFO numerous times, and Talkorigins is just evolutionist's mouthpiece propaganda.
>>1128909
Ad hominem, still not an argument.
If you can't provide a counter-argument, you lose.
>>1128909
you have to suffer from severe dementia if you believe you came from a rock
>>1128910
>>Mr Fedora has been BTFO numerous times
No he hasn't.
>>Talkorigins is just evolutionist's mouthpiece propaganda
No it isn't.
>>1128914
You're brainwashed by the Darwinian monkey-myth cult.
>That's right, at first nothing EXPLODED and suddenly there was a soup.. out of that soup came monkeys which turned into humans!
>We don't have evidence, but you'll just have to trust us!
>>1128911
>>If you can't provide a counter-argument, you lose.
Talkorigins is the counter argument to all the nonsense you have posted in this thread and if you think that you have posted arguments other then muh buybull, muh cretinist website and muh bullshitty pictures.
These aren't arguments for anything other then your dementia.
>>1128918
>Darwinian monkey-myth cult.
Kent Hovind please get off 4chan, your tax evading ass is stinking the place up more then usual.
>>1128919
Talkorigins is generic evolutionist babble.
http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html
Destroys and tears apart every argument evolutionists make.
Not to mention that Kent Hovind and others have also completely torn apart your pseudo-science religion.
http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html
I'll leave this here.
Evolution is a religion.
/thread
>>1128922
>>Talkorigins is informative information on the issue of human origins.
Fixed.
>>Destroys and tears apart my own credibility.
Fixed.
>>Not to mention that Kent Hovind and others have had their asses torn apart for tax fraud.
Fixed.
>>1128866
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V_2r2n4b5c
ITT: atheists getting obliterated
>>1128930
Evolution have changed and is changing, so even if it is a religion it isn't comparable to those that base their religion on a fixed scripture.
>>1128938
>ITT: Samefagging, really obvious samefagging from a cretinist retard.
>>1128724
Well, yeah...neither do we. We just call the little guys "angels" rather than "god" (and we drop aristotle's deism).
The big deal is that "God" doesn't properly describe "powerful creatures" (like angels and polytheistic deities) as far as our usage is concerned. It's pretty much reserved for describing the prime mover.
Like I said -- it's nothing more than an autistic shit-show about what the word "God" actually entails.
>>1128941
it's a religion because
1. there is no evidence, it's just speculation
2. it's a worldview, and worldviews affect the way your behavior
3. it requires faith to believe in the laughable idea that a dog can turn into a whale
the theory is so stupid that they had to insert [billions of years] in order to make it sound more credible, as if adding more years make it more plausible.
the earth is 6000 years old, man was created by God. these are facts.
you can cling to your delusional alternative worldview from Satan, or believe in Biblical truth
>>1128955
>>there is no evidence, it's just speculation
>>http://talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/
Shut up.
>>1128955
>1. there is no evidence, it's just speculation
There is evidence for it though, even if it is true what you say that it is far from enough.
Looking at archelogical findings we will find human-like selections but who got certain trait that makes them look more like apes, which makes it logical to assume we somehow developed from them.
Even if your side of the debate is true, it too have quite big holes like how the fauna in Australia vs Euroasia and America can be so different. Any explanations i have seen for it are neither stated in the bible nor do they have any evidence (LIke the animals using floating objects to get here)
>2. it's a worldview, and worldviews affect the way your behavior
So does ideologies and philosophies do, and we never call them Religions for that.
Would you say the theory of realtivety is a religion?
>3. it requires faith to believe in the laughable idea that a dog can turn into a whale
It isn't reallty more laughable than time going slower once you get closer and closer to the light of speed.
>>1128969
>talkorigins
Crank website.
No, read Isaiah.
>>1128990
Nope. Actual accredited scientists with real degrees in the topic they are speaking about are not cranks.
>>1128767
>not realizing that lucifer was just an insult to Nebuchadnezzar II and not an actual entity
Whew lad.
>>1128717
it's Model View Controller in deities then
>>1128767
>pre flood giants
wat
>>1129018
It's made up bullshit.
>>1128955
What do you do about carbon14 datation ?
>>1126814
You cared enough to click on site
>>1129028
It was proven to be hoax showing that holocaust victim's ashes are 10 thousands years old.
>>1129052
>Thinking the holocaust happened
>>1126562
That's from the game Zeus. My favorite city building sim growing up. I still play it sometimes.
>>1126562
there are other celestial beings, like Gabriel.
>>1129099
Gabri-EL?
>>1126567
Fuck off
>ITT genesissies getting BTFO left and right
you gotta be a literal actual fucking retard to act like this ahhaha fucking joke
>>1126562
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. - John 17:3
>>1126562
You can have Zeus as your god. That does not make Zeus a god. It just makes Zeus your god. It means you have a false god. In this case, Adam.
>>1126562
Genesis passage talks about a tribe of people that followed God and they are called children of God not gods.
The exodus passage about gods of Egypt talks about demons - behind all idols there's a demon, a demon has the power to appear as a vivid representation of said God - and demons are the gods of other cultures.
Demons have a lot of physical power over the humans that submit to them.
>>1126562
No, it doesn't. The story of the Golden Calf is the key to understanding this. The Israelites referred to the calf as a god, and worshipped it, but did the writers of the Bible actually acknowledge that it was a god? No. They explicitly state that the Israelites made the calf by melting down their gold and casting it. A human cannot create a god. It was a statue, nothing more. However, that didn't stop people from mistakenly worshipping it as though it were a deity. In other words, when the Bible refers to "gods" it means those things which exist that people worship as though it were God (i.e. an idol like the golden calf, a ruler, a flag, a political state/party, some lesser power like a demon or an angel, or even some human good like pleasure/sex).
The "God" of monotheism and the polytheistic "gods" are entirely different ontological concepts. The monostheistic God is not simply some supernatural being with immense power, like Apollo or Thor, that is believed to exist within reality. Rather, the monotheistic God is reality itself. God is He who set reality into motion and in whom all reality subsists. fact, God is not even a "being", He simply "is". This is why, when asked for His name by Moses, God simply replies "I am who am". God as understood by monotheistic theology excludes, by definition, the existence of any other deity--since there is only one infinite reality.
A polytheistic god cannot be argued for in philosophical terms--you either discover it to exist as a material proof (as you would the Yeti or a dragon) or you do not. Even the polytheistic classical philosophers understood this, which is why metaphysical concepts were almost exclusively argued for in monotheistic terms (e.g. Aristotle's concept of the Primer Mover / Unmoved Mover, or the Heraclitean/Stoic usage of the term "Logos"). As such, the classical concept of Logos, or even the Chinese concept of Tao, is much closer to the correct idea of God than any polytheistic god is.
>>1126562
It allows for the belief that pagan """gods""" existed in the form of demons that tricked people into worshiping them
>>1132192
> Rather, the monotheistic God is reality itself.
This concept is also found in polytheistic philosophies. The Aztecs understood theri Gods to be represnantive of some aspect of nature and the supreme force was some Heraclitus-Flux-like force. You also find similar ideas in all other forms of Paganism. Generally the lower members of society understood the Gods as being anthromorphic and the higher ones understood them as metaphors. It's a philosophical concept, Spinoza would be a famous example but so would stuff like the Upanishads. Hell the concept of animinism even echoes it.
There is however a unique problem with God being reality itself in Christianity. Namely the problem of evil. When the Pharisee's attacked Jesus were they God? Was Pontius Pilate God? Is Satan God? When Christians were persecuted were their persecutors God? If kill a man with a knife is the knife God?
If you answer no to any of these you negate the Christian God being reality, you have made a distinction between that which is God and that which is not God. God being the fundamental nature of reality, means he must be all things, including suffering, pain, cruelity, darkness and evil. If it exists, it must be God. I exist. I am God too.
While I agree with the idea of God being the fundamental reality I think the example is Abraxas, the Gnostic God. Abraxas is the God that represents the harmony of opposites: he is good and evil, light and dark, existence and non-existence, everything and nothing.
>>1126562
Sorta.
Judaism was originally a henotheistic religion, where Yahweh was to be worshipped as the greatest of gods, but not necessarily the only god. Consider the wording of "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Why before me? Why not just no other gods? It allowed for belief in multiple gods as long as Yahweh remained the primary god at all times.
Over time, the other gods fell away, and true monotheism took hold.
>>1128782
>There was no global flood
Well actually about 12000 years ago sea level rise like 400 feet pretty quickly.
>>1129667
assblasted christfag
>>1128753
>It's a history book, deal with it.
>Everything in the Bible happened.
We know for a fact that's not true.
For example Joshua's conquest of canaan never happened. The vast majority of the cities mention show no signs of destruction and we're simply abandoned over a period of hundreds of years. The few that do show signs of destruction occur hundreds of years apart (i.e. they can't have been conquered by one guy).
Only biblical apologists think the way you do. The evidence certainly doesn't back you up.
>>1128814
>Cognitive dissonance
stop using this term, you have no idea what it means and quite frankly I'm embarrassed for you.
