Haven't seen anything related to maritime history in a while.
Shall we have a naval thread gentlemen? Anything goes but I know next to nothing about post ironclad warships. I do know a thing or two about wooden sailing ships so ask away.
>>1119357
>>1119359
>>1119361
>>1119366
Those chinks were crazy
>>1119442
Why of all things do you post a mockup of Zheng He's supposed flag ship? Are you baiting?
Bad pictures I took of the Mary Rose in Portsmouth.
>>1119466
knarr
Anyone else been here?
>>1119357
What would you consider the most efficient sailing trade vessel up do date?
Considering speed, shipping capacity, size of crew needed, maintenance, reliability...
What kind of vessels are can still be found for sale for intercontinental transport?
>>1119466
Not sure why it's sideways. Hopefully the rest aren't
>>1119478
Bows from the ship
>Shall we have a naval thread gentlemen?
this board is gayer than the board for gay people holy shit
>>1119481
More stuff from the ship
>>1119471
Well like I said my knowledge of post iron-clad ships is a bit wuzzy so I don't think I can answer your question properly, but what would you want to use it for? Is there enough trained personal to make it viable?
>>1119470
I went to Portsmouth with the Scouts when I were a lad, that was a while ago. The Naval museum stuff was dope as fuck.
>>1119357
Did they really mount hwachas on pankoseons? Because the thought of the Joseon fleet firing primitive rockets at Japanese ships makes me hard.
>>1119510
Never heard of them doing it but then again the metal plating is also still discussed. Would be baller though.
>>1119496
Basically what these guys are doing:
http://fairtransport.eu/
Transporting people and goods between Europe, Canary islands, Caribbean & South America without using oil.
First step will be sailing the route with one or two normal sailing yachts, gaining experience and training the crew.
Later a wooden sailing vessel with higher freight capacity would be nice.
Sweden BTFO
>>1119516
Wikipedia says they were but gives no citations, which is why I'm curious.
>>1119442
1000ton junks in the 1600's
There is something romantic about existing in a harsh environment on an island of concentrated human knowhow.
>>1119466
Can you pinch me one of those yew longbow they found crates of them
English warship around 1400
Lapstrake/clinker I believe
>>1119728
The largest is believed to have been over 60 meters long (about the same size as HMS victory) and 2000+ tons in displacement.
>>1119734
>>1119471
Tea clipper or four mast barque
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_cutter_Renard_(1812)
>>1119361
shit i remeber reading this book a lot as kid, do you remember its name?
>>1119482
Great point. Thanks for contributing.
>>1119728
Wasn't Henry V's flagship on the voyage to france called the Holighost? I'm sure i've read that somewhere.
>>1119361
>filename
Lotta loyalty for a hired explorer
dumping some cool pics
>>1121649
more u-boats
>>1121652
now for a British sub
>>1121654
photo inside a u-boat
>>1121662
>>1121665
Don't remember the name of this ship but I do remember that this was taken in 1898
>>1121674
And finally the one and only
>>1121547
>Grace Dieu
Ah my mistake.
That's the trouble with briefly studying lots of periods of history and never any one subject in depth, you end up with lots of half remembered half corrects facts floating around in your head.
Anyone else know this feel?
Is this book any good?
Dropping a recommendation for this book, absolutely excellent.
Can anyone think of more disposable ships than those built for the Great lakes during the war of 1812?
Built using only unseasoned wood, no treenails but just iron ones, keels built with three different kinds of wood and frames/scantlings from as many as eight different kinds, omitting knees, (and nearly) crew quarters and holds.
>>1122370
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Taganrog
The lady nancy qualifies here.
>>1122503
That's a good one, just built a raft and stick a gun on it.
Honestly I had never heard of the battle before. Have a nice song:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW3gKKiTvjs
>>1119361
this illustration is comfy
What kimd of warships were used by European and Mediterranean powers after the fall of Rome?
Did they still use trireme and similar ships or something else?
What was the evolution of ships between the Age of Discovery and Fall of Rome?
Did the Romans even use Triremes during the closing days of the empire?
>>1123048
The people who came immediately after the Romans tended to use triremes.
Then later you get dromons and the Vikings show up.
>>1121674
it says Oregon on the side so i'm going to assume this is the battleship USS Oregon
Are there any halfway decent books on pre-age of sails ships, maritime culture, and so on, preferable from the viking age through the medieval age?
In essence, if it has cannons, I don't want to hear about it.
>>1119442
Is there any evidence for this thing actually existing?
Can anyone tell me if U-boats frequently used their guns?
>>1123554
They found the Dry-Docks, and its masts.
You've got to understand, the Treasure Ships aren't functional vessels. They were showpieces to the Spice Route states to convince them to trade with the new Ming Dynasty. They just built 5 or 9 of those, IIRC.
The largest Chinese ship that was regularly used was the Fengzhou. Which is a diplomatic vessel that visited Japan/Korea whenever a new monarch is crowned there.
>>1123048
Tireme and similar oared warships, typically constructed with mortise and tenon joints, after that had been replaced by caravel planking that underwater ram because useless and they made it into a boarding spur. Besides galleys you get a load of other ships like >>1123084 mentioned and stuff like Nefs, Hulks and carracks.
From Roman galley to age of Discovery ship you get a ton of improvements. Caravel or lapstrake hull as opposed to mortise and tenon, central rudder, multiple masts with square and lateen sails etc etc. That said we should not see those sailing ships as an evolution of Roman warships but rather as an entirely different species of ships.
>>1123529
Not that I know off but I rather prefer 1300-1600 in terms of warships. Anything before that is going to be cogs, nefs, dromons and viking ships. You could always try a few osprey books on those subjects.
>>1123554
Most pre-industrial or pre 1800 ships tended to top out at around 60-70 meter, both because bigger was harder on a technological and logistical level and because the need simply wasn't there. That Chinese maquette shows one twice (130-140) that length and it as an insanely low length to beam ratio. Many folks say those ships simply cannot be made or at least not sailed in anything but the calmest waters. Those 60 and 70 meter long warships already experienced what people call hogging, the nature of displacement hulls means that the most flotation is generation where the hull displaces the most. Since that is at the center it will naturally exert upward force there, meanwhile the bow and stern can be quite heavy due to stern castles and cannons. This tends to lead to the bow and stern sagging down while the middle goes up. Those 19th century European ships built over 100 meters experienced this so much they had to reinforce the entire thing with steel braces and even then it was not always enough to prevent catastrophic failure.
cont.
>>1124467
This leads some historians to think that while such a gigantic ship might have been built it would not be suitable for anything besides river travel basically making the thing a giant floating reception hall.
I think that Ming sailors too would have recognized that 60-70 meters is something of a sweet spot for big ships and that the beam was made narrower much like this picture >>1123668 That said it has a rather steep deadrise in the picture.
If anyone knows more about Ming era Chinese ships i'd be happy to ask him or her a few questions.
>>1124475
Here's my local shipfu, the Constellation.
Had a varied little career, including putting around the Med during the Civil War and disrupting the slave trade along the African coast.
She's also the last engineless tall ship built by the US Navy.
>>1124713
Man those American frigates look bulky compared to European ones.
>>1124724
According to Wikipedia it's a sloop, but though it's light on guns it was using Civil War era munitions.
Here's a Norwegian(?) ship that visited recently.
>>1124713
I took this picture from a WWII "Liberty ship", a merchant ship retrofitted with guns to run convoy duty.
>>1124765
>>1124765
How did they produce armor for warships anyways?
I have a piece of copper from HMS Victory, taken from the ship in the 1905 restoration and made into an attractive platter. Good to serve drinks on.
>>1124906
Based on what I know about ironclads, they had real big machines to roll steel into long, thin sheets.
>>1125042
And how were these enormous plates joined together?
>>1119471
Sailing trade vessels that are still being used are arguably the most efficient ones. that would lead us to south asian Junks, they are still being used in great numbers for coast near routes.
If you talk about ships capable of high sea routes I would go with a Schooner. There are still some travelling between south America and Europe, it's the ultimate hipster way to import your rum or coffee.
>>1125093
Welding.
>>1125108
How do you weld two pieces of metal together if they are close to a foot thick?
>>1119357
What was life like for your average sailor, say on a British ship in the 1700s?
What did they eat, drink? What did they do for fun? Did they ever record their daily tasks?
All I know is that sailors actually got high quality provisions as to prevent scurvy and keep morale up, as well as rations of beer and rum (but that more so in lieu of clean water)
>>1125121
>a foot thick
are you on drugs? they were maybe 5 inches thick at most
>>1125122
Equal parts gin, sodomy and the lash.
>>1125167
On the Yamato
Armor:
Waterline belt: 410 mm (16 in)
>>1125177
>IJN Yamato
>finished in 1940
>"ironclad"
get fucked
>>1125121
by layering it m8, they didn't just use big slabs
>>1125121
Carefully.
>>1125122
>What was life like for your average sailor, say on a British ship in the 1700s?
Full of hardship. Their work led to muscular men with deep tans and "horny" palms from climbing and pulling on coarse rope. Having both helped hoist a sail and shaken hands with a sailor aboard a tall ship, I can confirm that their hands are rough as hell. They slept in four or six hour stretches with their lives being split into watches to ensure someone was always on deck. When not on deck they were usually caught up in maintenance tasks like winding rope for lines, sewing their own clothes, chipping irregularities off of cannonballs to ensure accurate trajectories and other such things.
>What did they eat, drink?
Salted pork and beef, with peas and various other hardy foods. The naval diet was pretty regular, with changes being made based on the region they were in with what they could buy from locals or catch from the sea.
>What did they do for fun?
Played music, danced. Drank when they could manage it. Gambled when they didn't think they'd get caught. Most of the fun was had onshore, when they could quickly dispense of their pay on booze and hookers.
>Did they ever record their daily tasks?
Not a whole lot, not always being the most literate bunch. Much of the information we have is from captain's logs for general movements and actions, officer's logs for day to day orders, and particularly surgeon's logs for the status of the common man.
Read Patrick O'Brian, who writes some of the most accurate historical fiction set in the Napoleonic era, and Two Years Before the Mast by Richard Henry Dana, a college grad who served on a merchant ship in the early 1800s.
>>1125186
I asked about liberty era ships m8 that's WWII
>>1125193
How did the layers join?
>>1125217
>Read Patrick O'Brian, who writes some of the most accurate historical fiction set in the Napoleonic era, and Two Years Before the Mast by Richard Henry Dana, a college grad who served on a merchant ship in the early 1800s.
Damn, thank you anon
When did you help on that tall ship? Care to talk more about it?
>>1125228
by welding
>>1125233
Don't get me wrong, I didn't serve on one or anything
The Pride of Baltimore came to town around my birthday and my gf got me a ticket for a river tour knowing I'm a big fag for this stuff. At one point they let volunteers help to set a sail, which is where I came in. We just got in line and pulled in unison. I'll tell you, it's hard work.
>>1125257
It's a beautiful ship, the grandson (second reconstruction) of the original Pride, a Baltimore clipper that served in 1812. Clippers were speedy little sloops that were essentially the luxury sportscars of warships, and the original, the Chasseur as it was originally named, got its current name from when it managed to slip past the British blockade, sail over to the isles themselves and declare Britain officially counter-blockaded by a fleet consisting of itself. It proceeded to take over a dozen (I believe like 17) merchant ships, threw British shipping into a panic and came back to the US a war hero.
>>1125295
Do people still get paid to crew these kind of ships, or is it a mostly volunteer crew?
I've never sailed before, but it interests me immensely. I'd like to get experience sailing.
Also that is a beautiful ship, very neat history as well. We don't get cool historical ships like that on the West Coast.
>>1125308
Depends on the ship. Some will pay, but they want you to have a ton of experience, while some are volunteer based and others want you to pay them to train you. The guys on this ship said they were getting paid like five grand for a six month tour. Which might not seem like much until you figure that they're getting all that at the end of the ride with their provisions taken care of for the duration. And, you know, they're getting paid to live an awesome life.
>>1125332
Sounds great, did they tour all over the globe, or just the east coast?
I will definitely be looking into sailing opportunities in my area (Pacific NW) but I would probably have much more luck if I relocated to the other coast. I want to try out sailing, see if that life is for me.
>>1119357
The best battle you can see in film:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNQUeeF6hso
>>1125354
They went over to Europe and went through the Baltic, I believe.
You probably won't see much on the West Coast, as I understand it docking is tricky with the big waves and all.
>>1119357
The biggest and better Spanish Warship: the "Santisima Trinidad"
Bump
Another bump
>>1126594
RANDSTAD
>>1126594
Is that a radome on a fucking tallship?
>>1126706
Those ships still have to adhere to modern standards. While I was on the Pride, the captain paused his lecture about 1812 to reply to a radio call from the Coast Guard on a nearby radio.
>>1121763
bumping.
>>1125390
>better
only if you are a "muh guns fuck agility" retard
>>1127484
It's certainly more of a political tool. Beyond detering any action against it with more agile craft, you can bring a coastal settlement to its knees pretty easily.
Spanish naval museum
>>1119421
original configuration look almost make you think it's a different ship
Italian Amerigo Vespucci, school ship for Italian navy officers in academy
We need some WW2 ships up in here.
The "Three sisters" (...of the Gorch Fock class) at sea in 1992: the Eagle, the Gorch Fock II and the Sagres.
How skilled were the Italian Maritime Republics (Italy, Genoa), actually as Mariners? How skilled were they in terms of Naval warfare? Do you think that being good at Naval warfare requires something different than being good at land warfare? Because it seems that these Italian maritime states were amazing at Naval warfare, whereas Italy's history with regular warfare is... less than stellar to say the least.
>>1128323
sweet painting from the battle of meloria between Pisa and Genoa
>>1127456
>ywn be forced to help keelhaul your crewmate for pissing off the captain
