What do Atheists and Nihilists have to look forward to? I mean other then worldly goals.
And what keeps you from doing something evil or bad when tempted?(dont go all goody two shoes we all break the law and sin).what is the meaning of life if there is nothing other than what we see?
Not baiting I'm genuinely curious
>>1119270
>Look forward to.
Worldly goals.
>And what keeps you from doing something evil or bad when tempted?
The eternal rule of "Don't be a dick." Which religions simply hijacked.
You don't need to have something to look forward to and life doesn't need to have a meaning.
Evil is relative and there's no universal agreement to what it is.
This thread is a meme. This post is also a meme. Have a day.
you're pretty sad if you can't find these answers yourself
>>1119270
Ghost Blowjobs.
Woo woo.
>>1119281
This. Fuck off OP. The whole "how can atheists be moral" is incredibly stupid and a dead horse on itself.
>>1119270
Nothing to look forward to...live on the present... We're all insects limited in consciousness to the little globules of time we find ourselves in, it's all for naught otherwise. 'Tis but folly to blindly hold out hope for the future...death and taxes etc.
As for doing something bad? Hohum, anon. He who goes beyond good and evil will not recognize good or bad, but will see that which brings power and strength and that which undermines and saps creative energies...
>>1119270
>What do Atheists and Nihilists have to look forward to? I mean other then worldly goals.
> I mean other then worldly goals.
why would you make that destinction? if someone doesnt believe in something other than reality then why woyld you even ask if they want something beyond it?
>>1119270
>What do atheists and nihilists have to look forward to other than worldly goals?
Nothing.
>What keeps you from doing something evil or bad when tempted?
Myself.
>What is the meaning of life is there is nothing other than what we see?
Well, nihilists believe that there is no meaning to life, and atheists might derive meaning from what we see.
Atheist here
Something to look forward? Sure. An apartment, a qtpa2t to call my own, a well paying job.. Other than wordly goals? Well anon what is there except worldly goals?
>What keeps you from doing something evil or bad when tempted
The rational knowledge that that something is evil or bad, ooobviously.
>What is the meaning of life
Do you ask everyone this
Why do some religious people do bad things in your opinion, OP?
>>1119363
No true scotsman incoming
>>1119363
Because they are mislead or their faith isn't strong.
>>1119270
Healthy humans are conditioned by evolution to 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' It's just another expression of the auto preservation instinct.
Feels good to be good.
>>1119412
This. Most people, by themselves, are fairly "loving" or indifferent to each other. Groups of people, on the other hand...
>>1119270
>What do Atheists and Nihilists have to look forward to? I mean other then worldly goals.
Personally, working a job that I like, making friends etc. or is that a "worldly goal"? If so, I'm confused and I don't know what counts as a non-worldly goal
>And what keeps you from doing something evil or bad when tempted?(dont go all goody two shoes we all break the law and sin).
I believe I'm a good person with morals. I don't believe in "sin"
>What is the meaning of life if there is nothing other than what we see?
That is something I've pondered but at the same time it doesn't make me a believer
>What do Atheists and Nihilists have to look forward to? I mean other then worldly goals
Getting laid, eating nice food, reading interesting books, doing things with friends, smoke weed, jerk off
>And what keeps you from doing something evil or bad when tempted?(dont go all goody two shoes we all break the law and sin)
I've been raised by my parents to be a decent human being. Also law.
>What is the meaning of life if there is nothing other than what we see?
Life doesn't have an inherent meaning. It's what you make of it :^)
>>1119270
>hat do Atheists and Nihilists have to look forward to? I mean other then worldly goals.
Nothing. This world is all we have after all.
>What keeps you from doing evil
Human empathy.
Do you need God for preventing you from killing everything and eating shit, OP?
>>1119665
No, but not everybody is all that nice.like serial killers who cannot sympathise with their victims.
Many people only do good for reward. And my faith preaches that he who does good to please God/Allah/Yahweh/Vishnu/Elohim/Tengri is superior to the good done only for safeguard from hell fire
>>1119729
>religious serial killers don't exist.
>>1119270
> I mean other then worldly goals.
If you honestly do not think goals in the world are worthwhile this is literally the definition of nihilism. Trying to defer your goals to some after-life is basically a death-cult way of thinking.
>And what keeps you from doing something evil
You're on a philosophy board. There are multiple moralities, and thus multiple definitions for evil.
> sin
You do realize no one believes in this but Christians? Is your ability to put yourself in other people's shoes this shallow
>what is the meaning of life
LOL
"meaning" presupposes teleology to be a thing. It's a huge part of Christianity because Aristotle was basically a demi-God to them. Not everyone follows a teleological way of thinking.
Holy shit Christians are fucking shallow.
>>1119270
maybe its not so simple, maybe life is a continuous existence, only momentary (you)s die, only forms change, maybe this is true of all reality, maybe that is all thats true
>>1119270
>And what keeps you from doing something evil or bad when tempted?
it's called morale. not sure if you've ever heard of it.
>>1119270
Atheist/Nihilist/Stoic here.
>What do Atheists and Nihilists have to look forward to? I mean other then worldly goals.
Nothing. But that isn't bad, that's just the way things are. Truth to me is the single holiest thing.
>And what keeps you from doing something evil or bad when tempted?
Knowledge. Doing good just feels right, or "correct" to me. It's like shitting in the toilet instead of shitting in your pants - you can do both, but I prefer to shit in the toilet. I can't help myself, but I find it impossible to do "bad things" despite knowing better.
>>1119270
Also.
>what is the meaning of life if there is nothing other than what we see?
No meaning. If you can't see something, or deduce it from the things you see, how can you even know it's there?
>>1119277
/thread
Religious people are apparently literally too stupid to understand that everything they have as goals for life apart from MUH SERVILITY, atheists can have too.
>>1119270
As an atheist I look forward to the afterlife.
>>1119270
> And what keeps you from doing something evil or bad when tempted?
Cultural inertia from the morality established by their religious forebears. The moment that inertia fades away amoral hedonism becomes the norm.
You just have to look at posts like >>1119281
>>1119335
and reflect upon the bloody purges of officially atheist states with entirely materialist derived "ethics" like the Soviet Union and Red China to see that morality cannot exist without a metaphysical foundation.
>>1120053
>Truth to me is the single holiest thing.
Literally just refuted yourself.
>>1120053
> Doing good just feels right, or "correct" to me. It's like shitting in the toilet instead of shitting in your pants - you can do both, but I prefer to shit in the toilet.
You realize the only reason you think this way is because your parents who were also raised to think that way taught you to do so right?
Your morality could not exist without the religious traditions of your ancestors anymore than you would spontaneously have toilet trained yourself if you were raised as a feral child. It would never even have occurred to you that shitting your pants was wrong.
>>1120131
Perhaps you should read Hobbes
>>1119270
>what keeps you from doing something bad
Jail, any other answer is wrong
>>1120197
Hell is a otherworldly jail, so it's not just atheists, literally on the end of the line its just because people are afraid of punishment and come up with all sorts of bullshit excuses to seem less cowardly then they are
>>1120147
The feeling of shit on your ass isn't pleasant, most feral people shat on the ground in holes and some even knew to relegate it to a relatively separate area to not fuck up water or food. It isn't some institution keeping us on the John, it's simple logic.
Similarly, if can imagine what pain feels like and it makes you very uncomfortable, then you can use your empathy to see why you would not want to inflict it on others.
If you can't and need some kind of all powerful space dad threatening to set you on fire instead, that's fine, but you shouldn't assume that everyone does. There certainly are people who would be more moral with religion just as there are people who are still immoral despite their religion.
>>1120133
how's that?
>what is the meaning of life if there is nothing other than what we see?
You have to create something for yourself. There is no inherit meaning to life.
>And what keeps you from doing something evil or bad when tempted?
Well, I'm not a prick.
That being said; Morality is subjective.
>>1120251
I completely agree with this response.
>>1119270
Nothing, I want nothing. Atleast I didn't have anything to complain about before I was born.
>>1119270
Neitzsche talked about how people completely forego this life for the possibility of a better one latter
He said instead we should affirm life
Though that doesn't mean being a drug addled moron or criminal
>>1120251
>The feeling of shit on your ass isn't pleasant, most feral people shat on the ground in holes and some even knew to relegate it to a relatively separate area to not fuck up water or food. It isn't some institution keeping us on the John, it's simple logic.
Please.
People aren't logical, and the only reason you think it's logical to avoid shit is because you know it's bad. Why do you know it's bad? because you were taught to do so. The fact that you have to say SOME ancient people knew to keep shit separate from food and water only reinforces the fact that is taught and not innate behavior.
>>1119270
>What do Atheists and Nihilists have to look forward to? I mean other then worldly goals.
Living a good healthy life. Both physically, psychologically and spiritually.
>And what keeps you from doing something evil or bad when tempted?(dont go all goody two shoes we all break the law and sin).what is the meaning of life if there is nothing other than what we see?
Confucian virtues you chucklefuck. Not everything about morals have to revolve around a magical being in the sky.
>>1120251
adding to this, morality is to an extent neccisary for society to function. no civilization could exist without someone to punish and discourage murder and theft
>>1120287
>it's logical to avoid shit is because you know it's bad. Why do you know it's bad? because you were taught to do so.
lmao. You don't actually believe that, do you?
>>1119270
needing a reason to not do bad is pretty pitiful. Morals can exist without religion bruv.
>>1119964
I am not a Christian
>>1120289
Not that I disagree, but always remember pic related.
>>1120065
Faith
>>1120295
Of course I believe that.
The fact that feral children don't toilet train themselves and dogs eat shit is evidence of this. Where is your evidence to support the claim that uneducated people magically know that shit is bad?
>>1120289
This just means that society and civilization cannot exist without some form of religious foundation.
>>1120327
>dogs eat shit
That's a defect, not normal behavior. Shit contains bacteria that can cause infections, the aversion towards shit is inborn. Babies cry when they shit their pants!
But it doesn't matter either way, this is not a discussion about feces. Logic and empathy are inborn, that's the point, and that's fact. (google intelligence tests for babies, etc. pp.)
>>1120327
The smell of shit is supposed to activate disgust responses from humans, naturally. Humans are wired to avoid death, decay, and disease. So yes, shitting your pants and letting it sit there is something a normal human would not want. Even if they did, humans are naturally social and the "tribe" so to speak would tell that individual to clean themselves.
So it's nature and nurture. Most human behaviors are a little of both.
>>1120362
> The smell of shit is supposed to activate disgust responses from humans, naturally.
Meaningless in and of itself.
The smell of cheese is the exact same odor produced by the exact same bacteria that produces body odor. You can shape how someone reacts to that smell by changing the context it is presented in. Tell someone that it's a hobo's socks and they will gag. Tell someone it's a gourmet cheese and they will salivate.
Shit and the reaction it's smell produces should logically be no different.
>>1120413
>people can be conditioned to react differently
What is the point of this post? You're making the exact same argument that you claimed was bullshit earlier.
>>1120359
>Shit contains bacteria that can cause infections
And tobacco smoke contains carcinogens that promote cancer yet that hasn't stopped people from smoking tobacco for hundreds of years.
>But it doesn't matter either way, this is not a discussion about feces.
It is when someone makes the argument that morality is inborn in the same way toilet training is inborn, which it isn't.
>>1120432
> You're making the exact same argument that you claimed was bullshit earlier.
Where did I make the claim that morality is taught to humans and not innate, is bullshit?
>>1120435
>It is when someone makes the argument that morality is inborn in the same way toilet training is inborn, which it isn't.
except it is. lack of empathy is actually a mental illness, sociopathy. you can see that part of their brain is underdeveloped
>>1120287
>People aren't logical, and the only reason you think it's logical to avoid shit is because you know it's bad.
No, I was taught WHY it was bad and make my decisions based on that knowledge. Ancient people noticed that mixing shit into your food tasted bad and some of the more detail oriented noticed that it was associated with sickness.
The logic part is:
Putting shit into my food tastes bad
Putting shit into my food leads to illness
I don't want to taste bad things or get ill
Conclusion: I will avoid getting shit into my food.
>you don't need religion to be a good person
>>1120459
Human empathy is extremely limited in it's scope and does not inherently lead to a system of morality.
>>1120462
> Ancient people noticed that mixing shit into your food tasted bad
and yet...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ttongsul
to be quite frank the only reason I'm still here is because Evola told me to ignore the corrupt word and that self-discovery and self-improvement are the only things of genuine merit left in the Kali Yuga.
>>1120435
Tobacco is addictive which almost by definition overrides your decision making process. But even so the rates of tobacco use fall whenever people are informed of the consequences.
>>1120480
>eating shit means you will automatically come down with an immediate bacterial infection.
Are you familiar with the concept of incubation times?
>>1120499
>But even so the rates of tobacco use fall whenever people are informed of the consequences.
Sort of like how the murder rate falls if people believe they will automatically go to hell if they commit murder?
>>1120131
Atheists in the United States have the lowest rates of all crimes and countries with lower rates of religion have increased levels of societal health.
Morality simply requires a rational consideration for the consequences of your actions.
>>1119270
catharsis
>>1120518
>This short life is all that there is. I know that for a fact.
>>1120518
>Atheists in the United States have the lowest rates of all crimes
Meaningless in and of itself as American atheism has traditionally been most prevalent in demographics with a low crime rate to begin with. I suspect as atheism becomes mainstream the amount of crime committed by atheists will increase.
>countries with lower rates of religion have increased levels of societal health.
and how exactly is "societal health" determined?
>Morality simply requires a rational consideration for the consequences of your actions.
Morality requires the belief that your actions have negative consequences in the first place, and some people that you don't care about being sad about your actions are not a negative consequence from a rational point of view.
there is no meaning to life you silly goose
prove me wrong
hard mode: no bible, koran or other abrahamic fairytale
>>1120549
Obviously you cant kno nuffin but it's the most reasonable assumption.
>>1120563
Why?
>>1119270
What do theists have to look forward to?
Heaven? Why would you want eternal ANYTHING? Shit gets repetitive. You need some negatives in life or else the positives are hollow.
Reincarnation? Again, shit gets repetitive. How many times do you think you can live before it gets old?
What is the meaning of life for theists? To be a slave to some deity? That's no more inherently meaningful than being a slave to some person.
No religion really answers the question "What is the meaning of life?". They just kick the can.
>>1120472
yes, but morality is a natural consequence of empathy. it's just a matter of expanding the "in" group to more than your little tribe, which is neccisary for building large social structures like we have today
>>1120559
The meaning of life is to fuck. We're not special snowflakes.
>>1120581
> it's just a matter of expanding the "in" group to more than your little tribe,
Which is an entirely irrational idea.
>>1120579
to be fair though reincarnation can't exactly get boring when you never remember your past lives
>>1120579
> Heaven? Why would you want eternal ANYTHING? Shit gets repetitive. You need some negatives in life or else the positives are hollow.
Hence why we suffer here on earth. Hence why eternal punishment for the damned is a concept.
>>1120442
You claimed that avoiding shit was learned behavior. You then claimed that people would be attracted to something that they were naturally repulsed by if they were conditioned to be. >>1120287
>People aren't logical, and the only reason you think it's logical to avoid shit is because you know it's bad. Why do you know it's bad? because you were taught to do so.
Now you're saying the opposite.
>>1120586
why is it irrational? do you want to live in a tiny tribe? personally I would prefer to live in modern society then in some small family of hunter gatherers.
>>1120589
If you can't remember your past lives, you can't know you have them. They don't affect you at all.
You're basically a different person each time.
>>1120594
>You claimed that avoiding shit was learned behavior. You then claimed that people would be attracted to something that they were naturally repulsed by if they were conditioned to be.
These two statements contradict each other how exactly?
>>1120598
I agree. just saying on a technical note that if there was reincarnation it wouldn't get boring unless we actually could remember our past lives
>>1119270
>What do Atheists and Nihilists have to look forward to? I mean other then worldly goals.
There is plenty of stuff in life to look forward to, doubly so when you don't follow a life-denying ideology.
>And what keeps you from doing something evil or bad when tempted?
Well I'll leave aside my autism about """evil""", but in general there's the obvious fear of prosecution, or revenge, the fear of being socially outcast or even disliked, the fact that harming people is immensely unpleasant barring sadists, the fact that harming people aan cause psychological damage and is evidence of an unhealthy mind, the desire for strong relationships, friendships and to be liked, the desire for a strong society where people trust each other, a love for people and a love for spooks like virtue, etc. Instead of asking why they don't do evil, ask yourself why would they?
Doesn't really matter to me as I rarely get tempted to do things people would consider evil or bad. I prefer playing the "good guy"
>what is the meaning of life if there is nothing other than what we see?
to live it.
>>1120593
Neither eternal punishment for the damned nor earthly suffering solves the problem of heaven getting boring.
I'm 24 and I'm already getting bored with life, I can't imagine an eternity of one thing. Sounds horrible. The only possibility this leaves I guess is that heaven and hell are the same.
>>1120517
Logically that would follow yes. In reality its more complex because areas that are poor have higher crime rates and high rates of religion. This holds true on a city, state and national level. High rates of religion do not correlate with lower crime.
>>1120596
> personally I would prefer to live in modern society then in some small family of hunter gatherers.
I very much doubt that you would prefer living among people you view as strangers over people you view as family.
>>1120609
You assume the people in heaven were not transformed into beings who would not be bored in heaven.
Bad assumption.
>>1120609
> I'm 24 and I'm already getting bored with life,
If you find life boring it is because you are boring not because life is boring.
>>1120634
in either case i do have my family. but in one case I have a larger and stronger support network, a government protecting me from harm and punishing those who attempt to do so in addition to modern technology
>>1119270
My death is what I look forward the most.
>>1119281
>This thread is a meme
looking forward to anything is a marketing meme
>>1119277
First post best pot
>>1120609
In heaven you sorta become a ball of light, and the only thing you feel is an endless orgasm as you bask in the glory of god, or so I've heard.
>>1120652
> but in one case I have a larger and stronger support network, a government protecting me from harm and punishing those who attempt to do so in addition to modern technolog
You only have the illusion of that. Your rights are much more secure in a small society than a large one that dehumanizes you by necessity.
>>1120703
even that would get boring.
>>1120551
The fact that there is a correlation between atheism and morality proves that morality can exist without a metaphysical foundation.
Societal health:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.pdf
>Morality requires the belief that your actions have negative consequences in the first place, and some people that you don't care about being sad about your actions are not a negative consequence from a rational point of view.
But your actions don't just "make people sad". If you hurt people they are more likely to want (or need) to hurt others. This has a destabilizing effect on a society which is bad for all people within that society.
If you sell drugs to your neighbor you might not care that he loses his job and can't feed his kids, but you might care when his kid breaks into your house to steal your TV.
>>1120704
>Your rights are much more secure in a small society than a large one that dehumanizes you by necessity.
>Your rights
human rights are a complete invention of the enlightenment. don't get me wrong, I enjoy them, but you certainly aren't going to find them in some tribe in New Guinea. everything I said is a plain fact about life in my situation. there is no illusion to being able to call 911 and have the police help protect me from some maniac
>>1119270
What do Atheists and Nihilists have to look forward to?
Worldly pursuits and interests, beyond that nothing since I'll be dead it won't matter.
>And what keeps you from doing something evil or bad when tempted?
I look at it this way, if you believe that anyone that is good in life will be awarded in death then nothing that you do to them in life really matters because they will rewarded for their adversity in the end.
But if you believe that this life is the only one then anything wrong you do to somebody is potentially the last thing they may ever experience so ideally you should be motivated to treat others better on the basis that anything you say to them may be the last thing you say to them.
Other than that people are motivated to treat others well because of the golden rule you treat others kindly in expectation that they return the favor.
Of course people are not perfect and it doesn't always work out this way but the groundwork for morality at least.
>>1120488
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ttongsul
Your link is for a medicine not a food stuff. People may eat something they don't like the taste of if they believe it will help their health.
However even if you found someone eating shit because they thought it tasted good that wouldn't prove that human's were illogical. It would only prove that if you change a premise you change the conclusion which is something we already know.
>>1120730
Romans 2
for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
God wrote His law in your heart. Coded it. You cannot escape God by pretending you think He does not exist, or by hiding under your blanket.
>>1119281
>Evil is relative and there's no universal agreement to what it is.
There are a few constants to morality for example most people agree that unprovoked murder of others is wrong because nobody wants to die and can imagine if they were the one killed.
>>1120730
> The fact that there is a correlation between atheism and morality proves that morality can exist without a metaphysical foundation.
Wrong, as the atheist demographic in question are not the product of an atheist society but are in fact the product of a society rooted in Christianity. Any correlation is meaningless on it's own without context.
>>1120730
>If you sell drugs to your neighbor you might not care that he loses his job and can't feed his kids, but you might care when his kid breaks into your house to steal your TV.
Why would his kids steal my TV when they probably work for me selling my drugs? From my perspective as a drug dealer my neighbor losing his job is at a minimum a neutral consequence as while I potentially lost a reliable client I have gained an increase in available human resources.
>>1120741
> there is no illusion to being able to call 911 and have the police help protect me from some maniac
It clearly is as police are under no legal obligation to protect you from anyone.
>>1119277
On point
>>1120605
>These two statements contradict each other how exactly?
Because you fucking acknowledged that avoiding shit is innate behavior and people have to learn to do something else.
>>1120765
Maybe the "law in my heart" was already there and Christians are just trying to take credit for it.
>>1120551
When it happens you can make all the bait threads you want.
>>1119270
Religion stands and falls with a Jenseits.
No such thing, everything is permitted.
And I feel like the idea of an eternal soul.. I used to believe very strongly in it. But as the years pass, I'm starting to doubt if it is so.
If not, then the whole of existence isn't worth having and hedonism + egoism is the only answer.
>>1120765
Man this post is hilariously dumb
>>christianity invented morals
>>and everyone supposedly knows this for some reason
Fuck man, you people are stupid little retards.
>>1120802
Maybe.
Or maybe you were made on purpose, for a reason.
>>1120567
Because there's no evidence to the contrary, you fucking unicorn believing cretin.
>>1120799
I can guarantee that if I call 911 I can get a police officer to come to my location, unless I'm in Detroit. Do you deny that?
>>1120801
No I didn't you assumed that was what I was arguing rather than recognizing my actual stance that neither are innate and both are learned responses.
>>1120791
>Any correlation is meaningless on it's own without context.
But the Atheists are MORE moral than the Christians in their own society. If Christian society were the source of the morals you would expect the Christians to be at least as good.
>Why would his kids steal my TV when they probably work for me selling my drugs? From my perspective as a drug dealer my neighbor losing his job is at a minimum a neutral consequence as while I potentially lost a reliable client I have gained an increase in available human resources.
Why would his kid work for you when he could just kill you, steal your drugs, and sell them himself? You might want to hire guards to protect you but why wouldn't the guards just kill you and take your money?
>>1120816
Maybe. But if you can't provide a reason for me to believe that then what reason do I have to believe it?
>>1120822
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia
>>1120821
How many horns does the Asian rhino have? The auroch? The narwhal? No, you merely regurgitate your ignorance with your ad homs.
>>1120822
The point is that if they do not, and something bad happens to you, you cannot sue them. They have no duty to protect you.
>>1120851
Jesus rose from the dead after claiming to be God.
>>1120861
And since you have no proof for this claim you may as well have said nothing at all.
>>1120856
wow, a court case that only made it as high as the District of Columbia Court of Appeals. this has no precedent outside of the District of Columbia. besides that I'm talking about what happens in reality, not legal responsibilities, how things actually happen 9 times out of 10. If I call 911 about a homicidal maniac they will come to my home
>>1120841
>Why would his kid work for you when he could just kill you, steal your drugs, and sell them himself?
Because I have more power than some street urchin.
>You might want to hire guards to protect you but why wouldn't the guards just kill you and take your money?
I would fully expect them to do so if I did not make the risk involved be outweighed by the benefit of serving me.
>>1120895
> . If I call 911 about a homicidal maniac they will come to my home
Coming to your house at some point eventually is not the same thing as them protecting you from homicidal maniacs.
>>1120903
unless I'm in the inner city or way out miles away from any town police response times to 911 are pretty high. even if you can't sue them it's in the police department's interest to respond quickly. it increases their legitimacy in the community and makes their jobs easier
>>1120866
It's the best documented event in ancient history; it changed the world; it even changed the calendar.
>>1120866
It says so in the NT.
>>1120920
Lets say the police do show up, and they show up amazingly quickly, we'll say 5 minutes. When they get there, you will have already been dead for 4 minutes.
>>1120968
depends on the situation. if the guy isn't insane and he knows I've called the police he will probably already be fleeing from the scene
>>1120984
>if the guy isn't insane.
It has already been established that the assailant being a maniac is a parameter of the scenario.
>>1120984
nah, can't leave a witness.
>>1121013
maniac was just me using language casually.
>>1121019
A perilous endeavor on a board full of philosophical pedants.
>>1119270
>What do Atheists and Nihilists have to look forward to? I mean other then worldly goals.
There are only worldly goals, since the perception of the worldly things is the only thing we can be certain of.
>And what keeps you from doing something evil or bad when tempted?
The threat of punishment by the social groups that surround us, either the state in the form of law enforcement, or the community and family that could shun us for doing certain things that are technically legal but frowned upon. Also, there is the innate primordial sense of righteousness that is natural to mankind, as we are social creatures by our genetic make-up.
>what is the meaning of life if there is nothing other than what we see?
There is no absolute meaning, all meaning is subjective. Meaning is whatever you feel makes your life worth living for, but that may differ from person to person.
>>1119270
>Look forward to
Worldly, personal goals
The only ones which matter
>Preventing evil
Good and evil are meaningless abstractions which depend entirely on the emotional state of the individual in question
>>1119270
Fact is that a religious person who believes in god will think twice before doing something evil and selfish when nobody is looking but an atheist would have no qualms if he knew for sure nobody would know about it.
>>1119304
No its not. What stops you, an atheist from doing something selfish even if you are hurting someone else? given that nobody would know about it what would stop you?
"not be a dick"? But why not if it gives you what you want, like some material object or money or a mate...
The truth is that in a materialist atheist society spiritual surveillance has to be replaced with physical surveillance..
Isnt it a nice coincidence how these two coincide?
>>1119270
All these reddit tier "haha dude we just dont do evil stuff cause we are not dicks, isnt it obvious haha" responses...
As an atheist I can tell you straight up, If there was something I wanted and I had to do evil for it and knew i would not be punished and nobody would know about it i would do it.
Cause why not? There really is no reason.
Dont listen to all these liars who not only lie to you but to themselves and will not act as they say at the moment of truth..
>>1119270
Nothing. They believe in nothing, therefore have nothing and are nothing.
>>1121053
Oh please. There have been plenty of christian people throughout society that have been complete scumbags. Just like atheists. No I don't believe moral are absolute, no I don't believe morals grant you karma points. But I am a moral person. I don't punch people or steal because I have a sense of empathy. I've been raised by my parents not to do those things. I care for my friends and family because they care about me in exchange.
The only difference between theism and atheism is literally that atheists don't believe in a magic fairy in the sky. All other implications very per christian and per atheist. Christian=/=moral.
>>1121061
>Just because I am a bad person means other people like me are too
>If they say they're not they're not different people they're just liars
>>1119270
ITT: Nihilists who believe in all sorts of things that give life meaning.
>>1121095
They clearly are liars though if they claim to make decisions based on logic but support conclusions that are not supported by logic
>>1120768
>most people
exactly, there are some that see nothing wrong with murder
>>1121091
A Christian is not inherently more moral than an atheist but a religious person objectively has more logical justification to be moral than a westen materialist atheist does.
>>1121138
>christianity
>logical
I think maximising cooperation to ensure species survival is a more logical reason to be moral than believing that allah is going to reward you after you're dead. Also, you do know morals existed before religion did, right?
>>1121141
>I think maximising cooperation to ensure species survival is a more logical reason to be moral
There is no logical reason to desire such a thing.
>Also, you do know morals existed before religion did, right?
Prove it.
>>1120938
It was not documented by a single source outside the writings of a small religious cult. There is just as much proof that Scientology is real as there is that Christianity is true.
>>1121141
This is some bullshit right here. You are clearly just an idiot. In that sense you are not different to a religious person.
For him his uncritical belief in god is an excuse to conform to laws and for you its a lack of critical self examination of the fairytale you just told us in your post.
>>1120897
When you're done writing fan fiction about yourself come back and we'll have an adult conversation.
>>1121053
>No its not. What stops you, an atheist from doing something selfish even if you are hurting someone else? given that nobody would know about it what would stop you?
A rational consideration for the consequences of my actions.
>>1121167
Dozens of historians of the ancient world wrote enough so that you could piece together what happened, if you chose.
And of course the bible tells the complete story, and has been authenticated to 99.5% intact over 2000 years.
Maybe shed your autism, lack of empathy, normalcy bias, etc.
>>1121095
Yes but you lie to yourself and in that sense you do not lie when you say you will be moral.
But you cannot examine it, once you rationally examine the paradox in your thinking is at risk of being revealed.
Yes yes, we all have empathy but a religious person also has to consider god watching him while an atheist does not.
>>1120518
Yeah because they're too fat to move
>>1121185
>Literally ignoring the contents of the question.
>>1121154
It is logical because survival is what matters most in biology, and humans are biological creatures. This logical morality system is rooted in emotions, something that's not seemingly logical.
>Prove it
Read moral tribes
>>1121122
There is nothing illogical about following the rules of a society if you believe that maintaining that society will benefit you in the long run.
>>1121206
I am sorry but survival is not logical. It is instinctual. There is no rational reason to do actions to survive, my nature as a biological creature pushes me towards these actions and i have to commit a lot of effort to fight against these instincts.
>>1121178
Nice ad hominem
>>1121217
But If you can do something to benefit yourself through hurting another while being assured nobody would ever know about it, what then?
>>1121218
When you're low on energy, you eat. The logical reason for that is that your brain needs sugar to function and you must ingest it. The instinctual reason is that you're hungry and craving for food. I don't see the discrepancy here?
>>1121206
> This logical morality system is rooted in emotions, something that's not seemingly logical.
So no logical reason in other words.
>I can't back up my claim myself but read this book which I want you to believe I read in spite of my inability to remember the specific arguments raised with in it.
>>1121218
I don't think you know what logic is.
I like being alive and living comfortably
Living in a society improves my chances of living and my quality of life
Living in a society requires me to follow certain basic moral rules
Conclusion: I will follow the basic moral rules
Seems logical to me.
>>1121226
You don't have to read the book, but it contains a large number of experiments that suggest that people have an ingrained sense of moral. It also suggests that things like reputation and gossip make people in groups behave. That's a moral system without the use of God. You can also google reverse dominance if you want. Just because I don't want to go through all the fucking links doesn't mean I can't backup my statements. If you were the president of the US I probably would but not on a mongolian rug crafting forum.
>No logical reason in other words
What does logical mean to you?
>>1121236
>I like
You made my point moron.
You do thinks because of emotional/instinctual reasons. Those are the catalysts of your behavior, not some logical considerations, those only help you to achieve the satisfaction of your emotional/instinctual needs.
>>1121188
No, dozens of historians did not document the supernatural events of the bible. That is absurd and you are stupid for even claiming such.
>>1120944
Means nothing to me as the NT is nothing more then a collection of stories and some moralizing.
>>1121259
They documented that supernatural claims were made, yes.
>>1121247
You claimed though that morality predates religion and I would like to see that proven. Claiming that humans have an innate sense of morality is meaningless if that sense of morality is also tied to an innate tendency toward religious thinking.
>>1121220
If I chose to hurt others for your benefit it encourages them to also chose that option. At some point I will be on the other side of that option and I don't want them to hurt me. By following this rule I encourage others to follow it as well which benefits me.
>>1119270
>what keeps you from doing something evil or bad when tempted?
Logic and ethics, a sense of helping the other men. If we refrain from doing evil only because we fear supernatural punishment after life then it's pathetic.
>>1121277
I said morals predate christianity but fine if you want religion here you go:
http://www.livescience.com/24802-animals-have-morals-book.
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/12/us/baby-lab-morals-ac360/
Animals and babies show moral behavior. They have not been taught religion. Tendency towards religious thinking has indeed evolved along with our ability to abstract thinking but the idea that the two are tied isn't really true.
>>1121253
emotional/instinctual reasons are still reasons. Being on fire hurts, therefor I don't LIKE being on fire, therefor I will not douse myself in gasoline and play with matches. The conclusion follows logically from the premises.
Can you offer a single decision that doesn't ultimately boil down to a preference? Even religion necessitates that I prefer heaven over hell.
>>1121275
Yeah and early christians claiming that jesus rose from the dead means absolutely nothing.
>>1121313
It means they claimed that Jesus rose from the dead.
And many of them went to their deaths never recanting that Jesus rose from the dead, when given the opportunity to do so.
>>1121323
Muslims blow themselves up for their faith, Buddhists immolate themselves. The fact that religious people die for their beliefs is not unique to Christianity.
>>1121339
The men who claimed to have interacted with the risen Christ Jesus were tortured and murdered for saying so, and none of them recanted.
Completely different from suicide bombers. The opposite, in fact.
>>1121406
A) We have no historical record for how the original disciples died or if they even existed/
B) Even if for sake of argument we accept that they were tortured to death we only know that they didn't recant because the bible says so, if they had would the bible report it?
C) All are cases of people willing to die because of their faith. How are those at all different let alone opposite?
>>1121323
>>And many of them went to their deaths never recanting that Jesus rose from the dead, when given the opportunity to do so.
We have no idea how the original followers of jesus died.
>>1121437
>Of course we do. You just don't want to hear about it.
No, you don't. You have no idea what verifiable and reliable evidence actually means.
>>We have enough writings from the early churches to reconstruct the bible.
This isn't evidence either, sorry.
>>You can buy Fox's Book of Martyrs for $1.99 on Amazon, assuming you have access to that kind of money.
Neither is this and I'm pretty sure viral marketing is against the board rules.
>>1119270
Atheism just means no god
Doesn't mean edgy emo teen(although many atheists fall in this category)
I live for myself and what makes me happy
>oh so you're a selfish jerk!
No, I enjoy helping others and being kind and seeing smiling faces. It's self centered, but it helps others in the process so I think you can hardly fault me for selfishly helping others to see them smile.
Life doesn't matter, and to that end, nothing you do matters. So why not at least try and enjoy it? And to that end, the other guy you're looking at, he just wants to enjoy life too. I'm no sociopath, I just don't see the point in spending every Sunday chanting with a cult.
>>1121437
>We have enough writings from the early churches to reconstruct the bible.
Even if that's true it's still just the say so of a small religious cult. Dianetics was written in 1950 and we know exactly who wrote it and when, that doesn't make a word of it true. Imagine 1,000 years from now all the Scientologist saying "of course it's true L Ron Hubbard wrote it himself".
>>1121470
15th century book.
Viral marketing.
kek
We know how all the apostles died.
You have no idea what "historical evidence" is.
>>1121504
Unlike Dianetics, no contemporary sources discredited any of the bible. None.
>>1121530
No source other than all the ones we have that show that there was no census, no mass baby killing and no mass Resurrection. And then their all of the evidence you would expect to be there. Not a single miracle is attested to outside of the bible, in fact there isn't a single non-Christian source until 80 years later.
>>1119463
I no atheist but this senpai.
>>1120133
You can't be this retarded.
