![11a6793509a0a3ae44752110.L[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/kpVYmWk.jpg "11a6793509a0a3ae44752110.L[1].jpg")
Considering the progression of science, math and technology are arguably the most important things in history how come it is rarely focused on in history classes? How come most history is about politics first and then possibly a bit on philosophy.
Also general history of science thread.
>the most important thing ever is muh science
Oh god just give it a rest you fedoralord
>>1116383
>Doesn't know that political and social change almost always comes after a change in science to allow it
But dank hat meme man.
Presumably because kings and high priests have the resources to get shit written about them.
>>1116383
It is.
I can give dozens of examples.
The pill did more for women than feminism ever did
The cottengin was more important than Lincoln becoming president
The Nuclear bomb lead to every modern first world nations stance on military.
>>1116405
>history should just be taught as sequence of things being invented because that's all that ever matters
Lel stay cucked modern
>>1116432
Dank strawman anon.
I can tell you were the head of retard class.
>>1116355
>are arguably
Weak as piss rhetoric.
>how come [history of science] isn't focused on in [history]
History of science is a separate discipline to history, normally in a History & Philosophy of Science / Science & Technology Studies unit.
>How come most of history is about politics
You'll find most historians today are social historians, not political historians.
>>1116405
>did more for
>was more important
>stance on
Notice how these are value judgements without a solid basis? That's why historians are interested in value judgements.
Your "history of science" is shit by the way. Go read Unbound Prometheus by Landes.
>>1116463
Butthurt humanities major detected.
>>1116463
>History of science is a separate discipline
Most kids learn general history. Explain why it is pushed aside for less important things.
>>1116523
I used to work with colleagues who did, and taught History and Philosophy of science. They didn't arguably did more for more important stance on. They got on with real research.
p.s.: Galileo was asking for it.
>>1116539
Most kids don't learn history. Most kids are foon sped state ideology in locked curriculums with little or no preparation in method.
School curriculums are notorious. The failure to include a vaguely related minor sub-discipline in what every state uses as its own hagiography is neither puzzling nor unexpected.
>less important things
Keep that normative stance up, your absence of argument is so convincing.
History of science is a cool area I'd love to become more familiar with.
>>1116405
Science is not some magical stand-alone thing that exists seperate from the rest of the studies.
It's eternally being lifted up by epistemological philosophies, any application for a study needs to be sanctioned by a moral philosophy, a political movement, an ideological movement or something along these lines. The ability to produce good scientists is dependent on the material conditions of a society (who owns what land, who won what war, how resources are distributed etc.) so history and economics folds in there.
"Science" is a false God
*Tips fedora
>>1116566
>Most kids don't learn history. Most kids are foon sped state ideology in locked curriculums
You do realize "scientific progress improving everything" is itself an ideology? All you are saying is you want to replace one ideology you dislike with one you do like.
>>1116601
Uh, I'm the one arguing against "replac[ing] one ideology … with [another]."
I just want the little fuckers to learn method before they hit my tutorials, content is irrelevant.
>>1116539
because the government sets benchmarks in the US based on how well kids do math, so schools push math more than any other subject because they get more funding if they do better in math basically.
>>1116355
That would be specifically important to the economic history of the world, which is only one contributor to the course of history. For most of Human history scientific progress has been slow to the point of being irrelevant anyway.
>>1116405
>The pill did more for women than feminism ever did
Speaking of science: http://www.nber.org/papers/w14969
>>1116601
>Showing history and what science has done is an ideology
Kek
>>1116574
>Science is not some magical stand-alone thing that exists seperate from the rest of the studies
No one said it did.
It's normally science that jumpstarts politics and philosophy though.
>>1116615
Same with politics anon.
Science and invention were more important to the formation of society than specific political ideologies.
>>1116670
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1imXIDBOdo
>>1116666
Nice trip-quads. It's more of a feedback loop. Philosophers/politicians pose new ideas, and science investigates. Their conclusions help form new philosophical/political ideas. And also, accidents leading to new discoveries also form new ideas.
>>1116671
Science didn't exist until the 19th century.
Ideology developed by at least the late 18th.
>>1116679
I said proof, not furry porn.
>>1116682
Very low-quality b8
It's amazing how butthurt philosophy and political fags get when someone brings up how unimportant they.
>>1116682
Are you trolling anon?
>>1116684
>I-I don't like that proof!
>>1116682
>Technology didn't exist until the iphone was invented!
>>1116687
>>1116690
Look up the debates on "science" versus "proto-science." Disciplinarity developed in the mid-19th century.
>>1116692
You know, videos starting with furry porn aren't an adequate source for grand narrative discourses of whig history and universalist claims of causation.
You might know that it is taking 30 volumes to answer the Needham question of why proto-science stagnated in China.
>>1116698
Technology seems to have developed in the late 19th century in Edison labs and the like.
>>1116716
>Look up the debates on "science" versus "proto-science." Disciplinarity developed in the mid-19th century.
The 19th century is still a really big stretch. And what about ideology? How the hell do you say 18th for that?
>>1116720
>And what about ideology? How the hell do you say 18th for that?
You remember some irrelevant political or social events happening in France and the United States? About that time the Whigs and Tories ceased being factions and became ideological.
>>1116731
m8, I think you might have actual autism. Either that, or you're defining ideology very weird.
>>1116736
Pretty much following Lukacs.
I think nobody else in this thread has ready any HPS at all.
>in a freshman level history class on Reconstruction through the Cold War
>learning about the 20th century
>most classmates are taking it to fulfill humanities requirement
>professor teaches out of the book, hardly strays off topic
>its the last week, we are discussing what we've learned
>"class, what do you believe is the most significent event in modern American history now knowing what we've studied?"
>only a few kids raise their hands, the first answers "the civil rights movement and MLK!" the other kids lower their hands and nod.
>"class, do you all agree? A show of hands please."
>whole class raises their hands except me
>"You disagree anon?"
>"Yes"
>whole class gives me the stink eye
>"So what do you think is more significant anon?"
>"Mastering flight at Kitty Hawk, landing on the moon, I don't know. I feel like there is so much we've achieved thats reshaped our destiny beyond idolized social issues."
>class remains uncomfortably silent, not sure if they are offended or considering what Ive said
>>1116778
I mean you brought up a valid point, but that was also lowkey autistic.
>>1116716
>IM GONNA IGNORE ALL THE PROOF
Faggot.
History majors are uneducated. If they were educated they wouldn't be history majors.
Its why you spend 2 chapters on feminism but only a paragraph at best on the pill.
>>1116717
Yeah, it's not like Tools have been around for over a million years.
But go ahead and argue that certain politician is more important than the invention of the axe.
>>1116800
>/pol/
How is that /pol/ anon?
>>1117002
Machine tools were 1860.
>>1117013
One thing which historians of science, and historians do, very well, is close text analysis.
Let's look at the clues which indicate this is a /pol/ post:
>green text
Genre.
>freshman
>humanities requirement
Genre elements.
>most significant event
Apart from "the event" being a highly controversial theoretical category in historiography, and "significance" basically being discounted as nothing more than the signifier of the historian's ideology, this isn't a "capstone" question.
These indicate that the story is entirely fictional, and representative of the poster's ideology (as does the freshman class).
The story then goes on to indicate how anon, a heroic scientismist young male, proves a feminised collective wrong about the centrality of man's knowledge over a kind of statist bourgeois liberal social politics, with a classic argument against groupthink element of rhetoric.
If you're not posting /pol/ shit then rethink your life, because you're a tired cliche.
>>1116736
it's fifel you retard
he's using Marxist doublespeak
>>1116795
Come on, really? Why is everything a form of autism to you people?
>>1116355
What are some good books on history of science?
>>1117113
Needham on China
>>1117087
Autist dialectics.
It's kind of criminal how poorly understood history of science is and how unknown some of its most important figures are to most people.
Bscause historical materialism led to the creation of hierarchical structures and oppression by those who appropriate the means of production to those who merely use them to provide surplus capital to the former
![f543bca6-3617-4c13-b221-5b636dd2a360-2060x1236[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/8vArrXh.jpg "f543bca6-3617-4c13-b221-5b636dd2a360-2060x1236[1].jpg")
>mfw a history of science thread and its just stem vs humanities memeing
>>1117039
>Machine tools
No one said machine tools specifically anon.
>>1117198
Of course. When you bring up that maybe we should learn about something other than political ideology and specific politicians nationalists and retards will get mad.
>>1116390
>It's normally science that jumpstarts politics and philosophy though.
Yes, which is why i am enjoying the fruits of the greek steam revolution and the carolingian renaissance.
Oh, wait, that didn't happen because society wasn't ready for them?
Well shit.
>>1117382
Given that tool use in general began before the past is subject to history, and that tools remained largely static until the development of machine tools, I assumed that you would only mean machine tools, because tool use by language using beings probably precedes our species.
>>1116355
Because history is the study of humanity and its story.
Not just its inventions.
The main scientific principles that need to be touched on are agricultural ones- the new agricultural techniques of the Iron Age that lead to population spikes in Greece and Italy during the early classical era are vastly important.
But keep in mind that earth science and biology has always had more effect on us than anything we've ever created.
>>1117448
Well when the forces of production can no longer be mastered by the relations of production, a class which has a new (or abolition of) property form in its specific relation to production shatters the social and cultural superstructure opening the way for the forces of production to be unleashed in the context of new productive relations.
>>1117450
Geology started developing around 1800, based on christianity. Biology only really started when people worked on it for a living, rather than being dilettante taxonomers, again, 19th century.
>>1117440
>Tools stayed static until the mid 1800s
Are you retarded?
>>1117450
>Because history is the study of humanity and its story.
>Not just its politics
Fixed that for you.
No one is saying history should be all science.
>>1117719
Are you?
>>1117726
>and that tools remained largely static until the development of machine tools
Are you really saying a spear and a gun are the same shit anon?
>>1117729
Of course not. Spears are useful.
>>1116405
The cotton gin had nothing to do with science though, fuckboy.
>>1116657
>Eating out of the trash can
Absolutely stop.
>>1117849
Read the op.
The word technology is there
>>1117960
>History of science isn't history
Humanities majors everyone.
>>1117975
No, it isn't. History of science is a completely different humanities discipline.
>>1117999
>History isn't history
>>1116355
Scientists use math which is expressed through the classical set theory that is ZFC.
Under scientific realism, the math done by the scientist is real, like electrons and photons are real (as some eigenvectors of their number operator).
This means that the axioms of ZFC are r.eal.
Now, one of the axioms is that there is a set (it is an axiom in the metalogic).
Now, where in the universe is this set? How do I observe it? measure it?
>>1118016
You're in a history of science thread with no awareness of "disciplinarity."
>>1118017
You need to align your QPUs
But the history of science and technology IS widely taught. Historians and Social theorists always bang on about the importance of technology as an instrument of social change.
>>1118059
Perhaps to an extent. But they are usually placed within a political context, especially at the pre-university level.
I think it's more a side effect of political theory bleedover into history instruction. Most introductory history is conveyed either in a Liberal individual-actor way, or in a Marxist class conflict way.
Both of those, in the hands of someone with too much material and too little time, lend themselves primarily to political and collective action summary. Technology, science, and math take a backseat to simplistic political narratives about Good Galileo and Bad Bishop, or Capitalist Inventiveness vs Soviet Obstructionism.
>>1118082
Which is why I always say content is the least important part of history instruction.
>>1118040
>Don't talk about evolution in a biology thread, that should be in an evolutionary biology thread!
>>1118082
Well how else would you teach history though? If you've got no context to present history to students, all you've got is a bunch of people, facts and figures that are kind of abstract and meaningless.
I agree that sometimes history teachers try to present simplified narratives and try to force an agenda, but at a university level atleast, you're always encouraged to find your own interpretation and are usually given different historians opinions on matters as a way to help you make up your mind.
Anyway about History of Technology. What I meant was that even though non specialised history subjects tend to skip over the technical details and only give you brief summaries of technological development. Technological development is still taught as an important element of social change through history. For example, you can't really understand the enlightenment without understanding the earlier development of the printing press, you can't understand the Industrial Revolution without understanding the development of steam power and coal as a fuel source.
>>1116355
>how come it is rarely focused on in history classes
Because if people learnt that it was the lack of mathematics and not atheism that held science back, many of the new atheists of today would disappear. We certainly can't have that now can we.
>>1118157
The church as a represive system appears on much more than just general and scientific knowledge. The power held by churches in many political, social and military manners was not deemed "christian" by many scholars, like, you know, marthin luther and many protestants.
>>1116355
Because history majors do not have nearly enough mathematical training to understand what even the ancient Greeks did, let along teach it. This is also why you have mathematicians doing history of mathematics instead of historians.
Learning about history of science made me gain a huge amount of appreciation for the Catholic Church.
I guess we can't have that. Better stick to conflict thesis and dark age memes.
>>1118256
>marthin luther and many protestants
Who've been nothing but a complete disaster to Europe and America.
>>1118821
>Martin Luther and Hitler
Hitler was an Austrian Catholic.
>>1118828
Hitler ripped off much of his stuff from Luther's "The Jews and Their Lies".
>>1118837
>Luther invented anti semitism
Lol no. Spanish Catholics were burning Jews before protestantism was even a thing.
>>1118842
Spanish Catholics were just cleansing Spain of anyone who wasn't Catholic, primarily Muslims.
>>1118849
>Spanish Catholics were just cleansing Spain of anyone who wasn't Catholic
Oh well, I guess that makes it ok
>>1118837
>antisemitism begins with Luther
Are you genuinely this retarded? Antisemitism begins with the New Testament.
>>1118876
Or the OT given how much the Jews talk shit about themselves, how god is always punishing them for fucking up, etc.
>>1118870
Well yeah.
>>1118876
Antisemitism is even older than Judaism.
>>1118910
T. Catholic reactionary
>>1118898
Perhaps, but NT explicitly calls Jews wicked and blames them for the death of Jesus. That's the root of European antisemitism. If someone thinks they got along with Christians perfectly fine until Luther came along and fucked shit up, they're wrong.
>>1118927
Yeah they should have just let the Muslim invaders rule Spain forever. Don't you have a bull to prep?
>>1118941
>For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.
1 Thessalonians 2:14-16
>>1118949
You think a line in the New Testament about Jews being dicks is the reason everyone else in history was antisemitic too, from ancient Egyptians to modern Muslims?
>>1118973
Ancient Egyptians didn't give a single fuck about Jews. They mention them exactly once on the Merenptah stele and it's not anything necessarily hostile.
I want Japanese Moot to just make a board for /phil/ and /rel/. It would be a joy to watch the shitposting.
>>1118979
Bitch the Hebrews were called the "habiru", a word that literally means "robbers and murderers".
When everyone in the world throughout all of history hates you, it might be time to start questioning your own actions.
>>1118989
Post proof
>>1119005
His proof is "habiru sounds like Hebrew in English! JEWS! FUCKING JEWS ARE SATAN! JEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!"
That's all he's got. He's a simple man.
>>1119010
>simple man
You mean moron right?
>>1119026
And you clearly didn't read the article. Because right in there it says it's a name which applied to all sorts of nomadic and semi-nomadic people. Not all of which were semitic. Nor even just semitic Hebrews, but other groups as well. It was basically a catch all for various groups that were not within any of the current empires of the time. And it says that the Hebrews were in that group, but then goes on to count various non-semitic groups included, and other semitic groups included in that which weren't Jews.
Or did you just see "Jews" and instantly jump to the conclusion that it was only Jews in that category, amongst which aren't just criminals, but nomads, slaves, and various other people who were just on the outskirts of the empires?
>>1119042
How thick are you?
This is how the Hebrews started. As a semi-nomadic group of criminals and lowlife scum from all over the Middle East, literally the world's trash banded together.
It's only centuries later that the habiru started the exclusive worship of the god of war and of being a massive dick, thus creating Judaism.
>>1119057
Post proof
>>1119057
Yeah, they did. You can read the Bible and see how little fucks the Jews gave about promoting horrible shit. I'm just saying that you clearly didn't read the article since you think this name only applied to Jews and comes from 'Hebrew" which it doesn't. It's a name that applied to various semitic groups of which Jews were one, and many non-Jewish groups. The people in that group weren't even all criminals.
So, you're misrepresenting what the information actually says and just going "Jews were violent thugs and habiru sounds like Hebrew, therefore me hating Jews is justified".
Go look at Europe at this same time and you'll also see various empires and then the scum on the outskirts, mercenaries, rebels, etc. Sorry, pal, you're not gonna be able to flip this to only apply to thugs, much less only Jewish thugs and somehow make a connection that all Jew, both then and now, are like this. The information does not support that conclusion and you're being intellectually dishonest by presenting it as such.
>>1119057
>b-but the kikerinoos were robbers 4 gorillion years ago
The Germans turned Poles into slaves 70 years ago, what's your point?
>>1119069
What are you even talking about? Obviously Hebrew comes from habiru, not the other way around.
>It's a name that applied to various semitic groups of which Jews were one, and many non-Jewish groups.
No, Jews didn't exist at the time. Judaism appeared when the Hebrews (ie the habiru) entered the Covenant with Yahweh. This happened around 1300 BC to 1200 BC, and soon after the habiru (who had been around since around 1800 BC) became known as the Israelites and built themselves a kingdom out of the crumbling Egyptian empire in Canaan.
>The people in that group weren't even all criminals.
>the people in a group that literally means "criminals" weren't all criminals
ok buddy
>>1119079
Germans are still nazi and Jews are still scum.
>>1119094
Post proof of this fag
>>1119098
This post is an intellectual milestone
>>1119094
>What are you even talking about? Obviously Hebrew comes from habiru, not the other way around.
The names sounding similar does not mean they share the same root.
>No, Jews didn't exist at the time. Judaism appeared when the Hebrews (ie the habiru) entered the Covenant with Yahweh. This happened around 1300 BC to 1200 BC, and soon after the habiru (who had been around since around 1800 BC) became known as the Israelites and built themselves a kingdom out of the crumbling Egyptian empire in Canaan.
Jews did exist. Maybe not in a religious form, but you do realize that Jews are also an ethnicity, right? They're one of the semitic groups of people and all that. Just like Arabs are semitic but not Jews.
>The people in that group weren't even all criminals.
>the people in a group that literally means "criminals" weren't all criminals
>ok buddy
Yeah. Let's check your article to see who was included under this title.
>Depending on the source and epoch, these Habiru are variously described as nomadic or semi-nomadic, rebels, outlaws, raiders, mercenaries, and bowmen, servants, slaves, migrant laborers, etc.
So, no, not all criminals. They're anybody who wasn't part of an established empire and were nomadic. For fuck's sake, half of these breakdowns even refer to people who weren't Jews and included. In one over 2/3 of the people were East Semitic like Akkadians and not Jews at all. Who do you think the Jews were fighting over a bunch of fucking desert dirt with? Other habiru tribes. Read your own sources, kid. READ them and understand them. Don't jump to conclusions which aren't justified by the evidence. Especially when it's evidence you're using to back up a claim of yours. Because your evidence just contradicted you hilariously.
>>1119094
>Obviously Hebrew comes from habiru
Do you also believe that Slav comes from the word slave? Ethnicities very rarely apply exonyms to themselves.
>>1119094
>Israelite = Jew = Judaist
Nope. Judaism only emerged after the kingdom of Israel got devastated and only the breakaway Judea remained. Judeans got later exiled to Babylon where they tacked on Babylonian myths which solidified their faith and distanced it from the original Mosaic-Israelite faith.
>>1119126
>Slav comes from the word slave
But that's correct.
>>1119118
And at the bottom we see this.
>Since the discovery of the 2nd millennium inscriptions mentioning the Habiru there have been many theories linking these to the Hebrews of the Bible.
Keyword: theories. But, let's see these theories.
>Encyclopædia Britannica states: "Many scholars feel that among the Hapiru were the original Hebrews, of whom the later Israelites were only one branch or confederation."[11]
So, clearly, no, it wasn't just Hebrews. There were obviously various groups and they were just one of many.
>Anson Rainey has argued that "the plethora of attempts to relate apiru (Habiru) to the gentilic ibri are all nothing but wishful thinking."[12] The Zondervan Illustrated Bible Dictionary states that Habiru is not an ethnic identification and is used to refer to both Semites and non-Semites, adding that "the connection, if there is any, remains obscure."[13]
And then we get this, saying that it never was an ethnic identification and that it referred to shitloads of people and that its connection to merely being Hebrews is nonsense.
Get fucked and read your sources next time, slick. Because you got blown the fuck out by the very evidence you thought would make your claim valid. And that's a brand new level of stupidity even on 4chan.
>>1119136
No it isn't. Slave comes from the word Slav, not the other way around.
>>1119131
Well Judaism obviously evolved a lot, turning into a monotheistic religion and eventually into an apocalyptic Christian type universalism, then back to a tribal thing. But I was already counting original Yahweh worship as Judaism.
>>1119142
It can't be called Judaism until the people from the kingdom of JUDEA remodelled it in Babylonian exile. It's anachronistic nonsense on par with calling Moses "ancient Christian" or something.
Y'all motherfuckers need the Archaeology of Knowledge
>>1119118
Nothing in what you greentexted contradicts shit. The habiru are a single group, collectively referred to as by a name that literally means criminals. No amount of mental acrobatics can change that.
And I'm distinguishing between Jews (religion) and Hebrews (ethnicity) here. The Hebrew ethnicity grew out of the habiru, who were originally multi-ethnic but merged into a single ethnicity.
>>1119159
You are literally retarded.
>>1119161
You are literally a very butthurt Jew.
>>1119162
OK, I'm a Jew and your still wrong and retarded.
>>1119162
Even if he is, he's still right. There's no proof whatsoever that the word Hebrew evolved from habiru.
t. goy
>>1119159
>Nothing in what you greentexted contradicts shit. The habiru are a single group,
No. Not according to the scholars they aren't. Not even to the people referring to them since your own source, the very fucking source you gave us said they were various people.
>collectively referred to as by a name that literally means criminals. No amount of mental acrobatics can change that.
Good, because I won't need mental gymnastics to prove my point; just your own source. Which refers to various groups which also weren't criminals and included under the title.
Your own source contradicts your claims. Nice try, but you'll have to try a lot harder next time. This is on par with you claiming Genesis is the truth, and then linking me to Talkorigins or some other site which debunks that idea.
>>1117039
Humanities majors care more about people and wars than things that actually matter. If they had any brains they wouldn't be history majors.
>>1118157
>if you don't believe in god you are mindless
When did /pol/ get invaded by stupid christfags?
>>1120043
It was mostly just contrarian morons with a few sincere believers mixed in. After the Trump thing started the religion posters died down, the contrarian trolls switched topics and the sincere believers were endlessly mocked whenever they showed up. Once /his/ opened the latter group migrated over here enmass.
>>1116682
No, it started in the 17th century when Gottfried Leibniz invented the Calculus (which was ripped off by Isaac Newton) creating the foundations of theoretical mechanics. Newton's later optics experiments created experimental science. This was followed briskly in the 18th century by Stephen Gray and other "Electricians" who started unraveling electromagnetism with all sorts of homemade experiments.
Scientific work was already in full swing when we got to the 19th century.
>>1118876
>Antisemitism begins with the New Testament
Are you genuinely this retarded? Read Numbers and Deuteronomy. Moses can't stop hating on the Jews after repeatably begging God to not smite them, being threaten by them, and being betrayed by them.
>>1118949
Deuteronomy 31:27 For I already know how rebellious and stiff-necked you will be. Why, even now, while I am alive among you, you have been rebels against the Lord! How much more, then, after I am dead! 29 For I know that after my death you will surely act corruptly... In time to come trouble will befall you, because you will do what is evil
Deuteronomy 33
5 Yet his degenerate children have treated him basely,
a twisted and crooked generation!
6 Is this how you repay the Lord,
so foolish and unwise a people?
Is he not your father who begot you,
the one who made and established you?
19 The Lord saw and was filled with loathing,
provoked by his sons and daughters.
20 He said, I will hide my face from them,
and see what becomes of them.
For they are a fickle generation,
children with no loyalty in them!
21 Since they have incited me with a “no-god,”
and provoked me with their empty idols,
I will incite them with a “no-people”;
with a foolish nation I will provoke them.
22 For by my wrath a fire is kindled
that has raged to the depths of Hell,
It has consumed the earth with its yield,
and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
23 I will heap evils upon them
and exhaust all my arrows against them:
24 Emaciating hunger and consuming fever
and bitter pestilence,
And the teeth of wild beasts I will send among them,
with the venom of reptiles gliding in the dust.
25 Out in the street the sword shall bereave,
and at home the terror
For the young man and the young woman alike,
the nursing babe as well as the gray beard.
26 I said: I will make an end of them
and blot out their name from human memory,
28 For they are a nation devoid of reason,
>>1121244
It does.
You don't believe in things that can't be tested or has proof to it.
But no one even said that. You just found a reason to get butthurt over your imaginary friend when no one was talking about them.
>>1121520
>You don't believe in things that can't be tested
You know what else can't be tested? All of human history.
>>>/reddit/
>>1116355
Because they do it in regular science classes
>>1121566
>Really didn't do much
Actually technology was more important in the past compared to politics than it is today.
For example, The invention of stone tools was far more important than any political move ever done in all of history.
>>1121533
>Or has proof to it
It's amazing how butthurt christfags are that they can't even read an entire sentence before going full ass pained.
>>1121533
>Christfags using le reddit meme
4chan has been making fun of butthurt christ kids like you for years before you came here.
>>1118821
>W-Why don't you follow the kike things my church has been doing!
>>1121624
No, 4chan has been a proud worshiper of raptor Jesus long before new atheists came here to claim 4chan as their super secret atheist hideout around 2010.
>>1121660
I hope this post is ironic.
>>1116612
>so schools push math more than any other subject
Is this sarcasm or am I in Bizarro World?
>>1121555
>Because they do it in regular science classes
Most science classes have very little history of the subject in them.
>>1117143
This.
>>1121670
But it's true, fedora autists weren't here in the beginning. We joked about religions but didn't mock religion before fedoras tried to force their circle jerk on everything after chanology backfired.
>>1119094
>Judaism appeared when the Hebrews (ie the habiru) entered the Covenant with Yahweh. This happened around 1300 BC to 1200 BC, and soon after the habiru (who had been around since around 1800 BC) became known as the Israelites and built themselves a kingdom out of the crumbling Egyptian empire in Canaan
No, they started when Abraham made a covenant with Yahweh around 1800BC.
>>1121723
>People weren't atheist
>Look we had funny memes
Kek, are you underage?
>>1121723
Lurk more Christkek, this is not your fucking hugbox
>>1121723
Yeah anon, someone is a fedora for not being Christian. The only knew one here is you.
Never before you faggots invading did we have butthurt christfags.
>>1121747
They may have been irreligious, but they didn't have a superiority complex from it like Dawkins worshipers do.
Moot really needed to purge and close /pol/ for good, the fucking cancer coming out of that place is horrifying. Look at this fag:
>>1121771
He thinks we're worshipping someone. No newfriend, your the only one sucking cock around, we're just maymaying. You're the one on your knees sucking Christcock and being proud of that on a Cilician Slave Raiding Galley
>>1121771
Just because you worship a kike doesn't mean anyone else does.
>>1121813
Was he Jewish tho? Like fore real, AFAIK Galilea was a melting pot when it came to racemixing back then
>>1121762
>someone is a fedora for not being Christian
No one is saying that. Stop fighting a strawman.
>>1121771
Who here is worshiping Dawkins?
>>1121819
Jesus? He is the Root of David, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, and the King of the Jews.
Sound Jewish to you?
>>1121840
Anyone who can't see what a miserable arrogant little prick he is.
>>1121849
Let me get this shit str8 lad, if I don't give a flying fuck about Dawkins and don't have an opinion on the man, it means I worship him?
>>1121819
Bumping this shit
>>1121566
Tell that to the first bronze age army that met the iron age army... And everyone at the Battle of Agincourt.
A lot of wars were turned on their head by a single simple technological innovation, because... War... War always changes.
>>1121849
Holy shit you are mad.
I like him because he did a lot for biology and is a great writer. But I guess I should hate him because he makes you butthurt. Not even the people you were arguing with.
>>1121854
Are you able to follow if:then statements?
>>1121873
>did a lot for biology
kek
>>1121624
>4chan has been making fun of butthurt christ kids like you for years before you came here.
[citation needed]
>>1121620
>proof to it
There is a ton of documentation behind Christianity. It's rejected because it doesn't confirm your biases.
The anti-intellectualism on this board is absolutely astounding. Someone says "Hey, maybe we should talk more about how technology impacts history?" - and a bunch of people shit all over him with the fedoralord meme.
We are fucking doomed.
>>1116355
Have I got the fucking history series for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAGMNVluHs4&list=PL-teo99ENSypJDyeXmEpLOxWMB9UVPbOS
>>1121879
>>1121883
You're so butthurt you wouldn't even notice a black Catholic priest fucking you up the shitter at this point
>>1121849
He only makes retards mad.
Case in point, christfags and SJWs.
>>1121869
>Besides farming, travel, and military weapons
>>1121883
You are so mad you can't even form proper sentences.
>Not knowing the Selfish gene defined evolutionary biology for years to come
>>1121873
>a lot for biology
>a great writer
>Dawkins
10/10, would keke again
>>1121894
>There is god
Fixed that for you
>>1121916
This butthurt is maximum.
>>1121894
Or because there is nothing supporting the 2nd or 3rd hand stories. How can you be on /his/ and not know how history works?
>>1121894
>Hey look guys there is a document saying a guy existed
>That means he was magic and broke the laws of physics and all other scientific laws because we have a few 2nd hand documents saying this guy existed
>>1121918
>There is god
I'm glad you agree
>>1121916
Have you ever read one of his books?
I would Recommend Ancestors tale. One of the best books on evolutionary biology out there while explaining in detail how the modern field of biology works and goes into detail about our ancestors.
>This thread
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_dMgLrxS2E
>>1121932
>was magic and broke the laws of physics and all other scientific laws
And programmers are magic too who break the laws of code with debuggers!
>>1121895
>Someone says "Hey, maybe we should talk more about how technology impacts history?"
No, OP is "tech is the most important factor in history", which is retarded.
>>1121894
>Evidence there is a god
How come every time this is brought up it's some stupid philosophical argument with bad logic or a complete misunderstanding of basic science?
>>1121955
Technology, math and science are the most important factors in history.
It's why we have the stone age
Bronze age
ect.
You really telling me that if you got put back 500 years into the past the first thing you wouldn't notice was that there was no electricity? You wouldn't give a shit about who the king was faggot.
>>1121959
The universe God made is evidence God exists.
So simple even you can grasp it.
>>1121971
This tebehe
>>1121955
Tool use
Agriculture
The scientific method
These are pretty much the most important things humanity has ever "created".
I bet you are one of those idiots who think a president you don't like being elected is the end of the world.
>>1121959
>People observe a phenomena
It is a fact.
>People observe a miracle
Delusions! Hysteria! Fabrications! Conspiracy! Coincidence! Ignorance! I'm too smart to fall for your lies!
>>1121926
>because there is nothing supporting the 2nd or 3rd hand stories
You can say that about much of history.
>>1122006
>People observe a phenomena
You forgot the
>Then records it
>Then repeats it or show that it can be repeated
Hey anon, I saw your mom suck my dick, it's a fact now!
Just a question lads, did any Christfag ever make a coherent argument that was not a strawman or a straight up lie?
>>1122012
Anything well known in history is recorded with multiple sources. Not just documents saying it happened.
We can prove that WW2 happened.
We can prove the egyptians had pharaohs
Why? Because multiple sources back it up and it isn't contradicted.
>>1122016
No. Any time a christfag comes into the debate it's
>HOW DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING IS REAL
Every time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW7607YiBso
Why do retards hate him so much?
>>1122024
Same with the resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth. Multiple sources, no contradictions.
>>1122042
The Quran contradicts it quite a bit.
>>1122042
Which other sources beside the Bible?
>>1121945
I rather read actual textbooks and learn things than buzzword filled popsci.
>>1121922
Isn't it time to offer incense to your Dawkins shrine.
>>1122042
>Hey look the bible said it happened and other sources that source the bible said it happened so it happened
>>1122048
600 years after the fact.
Which is more reliable? Eyewitnesses of the fact?
Or homicidal pedophiles 600 years later listening to the devil?
>>1122074
>I only read textbooks
And you are calling someone else a fedora.
Most textbooks are years old in their material.
Many times books from actual scientists are at the forefront of their field.
>>1122085
>Eyewitnesses of the fact?
So you just disproven the bible.
>>1122074
Except most scientists are atheist.
>Being on /his/
>Taking the bible as an actual source
Why did christfags even invade this thread? It had nothing to do with religion.
>>1122074
>Buzzword filled popsci
This is amazing since you are the retard throwing around buzzwords.
>>1122109
They got tired of /pol/. Many retards there have gone full Nazi and hate Christianity for being too Jewish so they crossed over to here to shit up this board
>>1122013
>>Then repeats it or show that it can be repeated
How do I make a supernova repeat? Guess it didn't happen.
How do I make a meteor strike repeat? Guess it didn't happen.
How do I make global warming repeat? Guess it didn't happen.
Not everything in science is a controlled experiment. Stop reading popsci and spewing buzzwords.
Why the hell would a Christian even be on 4chan? We even used to make jokes about this place calling it a christian image board.
No one likes you retards.
>>1122024
>There are multiple gospels but they don't count for reasons
>The accounts of Nero and Rome burning are contradictory so it didn't happen
>>1122128
Holy shit you are an idiot.
>Or show that it can be repeated
Meteors visitations and returns have been predicted for hundreds of years now you stupid christ fag.
Maybe /pol/ was right and christianity was created by kikes to rot the brain of goys.
>>1122143
>Nero and Rome burning
Except most of it has been proven false you retard.
Now give me multiple first hand accounts of jesus doing miracles made during the time of Jesus.
Even then, basic science would disprove these miracles.
>>1122073
Writings of early Christians.
>>1122143
>Uses Nero and Rome as an example
>Nero and Rome burning has been shown to not have happened even closely to what the old tale that was taught
Kek, you proved yourself wrong so amazingly well.
>>1122157
Most biblical tales have proven proven false.
I bet you think the Flood really happened too.
>>1122157
First off, I wouldn't trust that shit
Secondly, which ones? There was no mention of Jesus in contemporary literature
>>1122097
>The Gospels were written 40-50 years after the crucifixion
Most ancient historical documents were written centuries after the events.
The bible couldn't even get Jesus name right. Why should I believe it over actual historical and scientific facts?
>>1122192
And thats why many are taken with grains of salt.
>>1121673
My physics and biology classes totally had some on old theories
>>1122016
>a straight up lie?
Lie how?
>>1122192
And most historical documents can be cross-referenced to prove their validity, unlike the Bible which only has itself
>>1122176
Of course it did, which is why all ancient peoples kept records of it.
/his/ must have been named ironically.
>>1122095
>Many times books from actual scientists are at the forefront of their field.
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA, what's sad is people will take you seriously here.
>>1122210
This.
I read an old wet paper which had
>HOLY SHIT IT WONT STOP RAINING
on it
>>1122210
Wipe that foam from your mouth, you're seething with rage
I always forget why I come to this board. I'm better off on /b/ at least those fags post funny shit
>>1122218
I didn't realize a highschool biology class would tell me more than a book about a new discovery in biology word.
Hurr durr you are a retard and probably don't read shit.
>>1122218
>I have never taken a science class before
Just admit you don't read.
>>1122074
Really anon? Then why don't you give us all an image of your high level biology text books and show us where it mentions the most recent discoveries in biology to come out this year?
>>1122144
I said strike, not orbit. Many astronomical observations can't be repeated besides the most common stuff like eclipses.
>>1121360
>foundations
You can't sleep on a foundation. A squatter has to raise a chimney and roof in a single day.
Disciplinarity isn't two private speculations but a culture of epistemology.
>>1122241
Holy shit you are an idiot.
You can't have the same meteor hit twice but you can observe mutliple meteors hit the earth.
In order to show miracles are real you would have to show us some examples of miracles.
>>1122137
>You're not allowed on my super special atheist site for kool atheists like myself
You know this site is for people over the age of 18 even if it is a blue board.
>>1122257
No one said that faggot.
>>1122205
>the bible is one book by one author
>>1122273
>The bible proves itself true
>See, it says in the bible
>>1122273
Wait, so it's not the word of God? Then why the fuck should I care? Who fucking cares what some shithut semiliterate peasants from 2000 years ago think?
>>1122285
Hey anon, write on a piece of paper that you saw a random person do some random insane unbelievable shit and I will do the same.
That will be enough evidence to make it a fact 500 years from now.
>>1122225
>Discoveries are published in popular form
>Textbooks are only read in high school
Are you in high school? Do you really think that grad students read Dawkins' tweets and books to keep up to date?
>>1122229
>My SCI100 class for none science majors didn't use a textbook so obviously nobody does
Just admit you don't have a science degree.
>>1122309
Dank strawman faggot.
I read biology books and guess what, i'm a grad student.
Who would have guessed that maybe people would read the things they are interested in.
You are a fucking retard.
>>1122239
>most recent discoveries in biology to come out this year
>Dawkins' books
Wow, just wow.
>>1122322
Many of his did.
Of course you wouldn't know, you are an illiterate nigger.
>>1122322
>Why would a biologist talk about recent biological discoveries
Really?
>>1122074
Why the hell would anyone spend hundreds of Dollars on textbooks if they could get books created by scientists for a 20th the cost?
>>1122277
>That corpus of works is legit because it's made of many works
>But this corpus of works is not legit because I count it all as one meta-work
bias much
>>1122341
>Many works
>Most works either source past works already sourced or are generations away from the event or are horribly mistranslated and most of the information was lost
>>1122338
Well, scientists generally don't write monographs, they write journal articles.
>>1122307
Yeah, the moon landing is insane unbelievable shit. I wish landershill retards would stop trying to shovel that shit down our throats. There's no evidence for that magical bs and it's been debunked all over the internet.
