tell me about europe pre-civilization
>>1113148
Just tribes, building little hill forts and worshiping nature gods
Nothing too exciting.
Thank you based Greeks and Phoenicians for civilizing the world and making history interesting.
>>1113368
Although, hill forts are pretty fucking cool
Also megaliths
ICE AGE CIVILIZATIONS NIGGA
SHIT WAS LIKE CONAN THE BARBARIAN, EXCEPT IT WAS REAL
>>1113368
Tribes are just as interesting, they just didn't record shit. The Fertile Crescent didn't make history interesting they invented it.
>>1113380
>He does not remember the episode when conan took down the hwan pyramid fleet en route to Helsinki
Alpine pile dwellings, 5000 to 500BC
Austria (5 sites), France (11), Germany (18), Italy (19), Slovenia (2), and Switzerland (56)
model of a typical 3384-3370 BC Germanic lakeside settlement, Germanisches National Musuem Nuremburg
>>1114809
>3384-3370 BC
>Germanic
bronze age forscherner settlement near the federsee lake, germany
>>1114809
i just love the tiny models museums have
i wonder who does them? is that like a thing you get taught at uni? is it hobby fans who happen to have studied archeology/history/something?
>>1114812
all items in the museum were discovered on german soil
>>1114834
I don't think you know what 'Germanic' means.
Neolithic stuff is cool.
>>1114851
>>1114839
yes, I know what it means
>>1114859
Then why don't you use it right?
>>1114864
why does it matter to you this much? if I said lakeside settlement in Germany would you take issue with that?
>>1114871
Because I'm a pedantic shitposter.
>nobody posting chauvet cave paintings.
baka desu senpai
![early_bronze_age_europe[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/fUSewfV.gif "early_bronze_age_europe[1].gif")
There needs to be an RTS/Total War/first person combat game about pic related.
>>1115564
They won't even do the fucking LATE bronze age, and you want this.
Small steps, anon.
WE WUZ PAGANS
When did y dna haplogroups I and R1b arrive in Europe? Which was there first?
I've heard there were waves of people moving in, including hunter-gatherers, neolithic farmers, and then horse/wheel yamna culture. Before that, ancient prehistory was neanderthals and cro-magnon man hanging out until neanderthals were wiped out and/or absorbed. It'd be nice to see a gif showing various people and where they spread.
It's hard to tell because most of what we know about prehistory is based on archaeology and genetics, and both have many flaws and gaps.
>>1115564
Too late tbqh
>pic related
>>1113368
Sumerians civilized it first. Thank them.
>>1118424
Original European haplogroup is C1.
>>1119216
And those before them
>>1114809
Germanics didn't exist until circa 500 AD, m80
>>1113368
>little hill forts
Sure thing bro.
>>1119917
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zajFbLyklRY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUxUbqEgFDU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTcCNXaMc-M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1xdyOEWr_I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFbvDFmsuZ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU7cs_mN3OA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Erq2aLseuEQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DblaSr4-FCg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFntXicHBUY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJg6ZxfM58w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7BN1pFIp7U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdKUf5yLAhg
>>1113368
Non-civilised tribal societies are pretty interesting desu.
>>1114832
Massively foggy heritage professional here. It is the sort of job you get by doing. If you can demonstrate you've got the skills through your portfolio, no one is even going to care if you finished high school or not.
>>1120519
Is there any need for them right now?
Do you think it pays well?
>>1120540
Sure, stuff is commissioned all the time all over the world. I should imagine half the skill is in developing the sort of reputation required and being able to network and market it. There are all sorts of people out there - I'm sure you can think of more but the table top games industry, film makers, architects and the heritage industry all need model makers.
>>1119962
Nuraghe Sirai fortress reconstruction
>>1120570
Nuraghe Barumini and nearby settlement reconstruction (1470-1100 bc)
>>1120570
>>1124213
Reconstruction of Nuraghe Santu Antine (1700-1400 bc)
>>1119752
Lol no.
Germanics had already spread out from the Scandinavian heartland to below the Rhine by 500AD.
Frankish king Clovis I started the Frankish expansion from present-day flanders by that time.
>>1124367
Around that time frame. However, Germanics certainly didn't exist 3000 BC like that guy implied.
>>1124223
Chamber inside one of the thousands of neolithic necropolis of Sardinia, the so called domus de janas (3200-2700 bc)
>>1124626
Another room in the same necropolis.
>>1124635
Another Sardinian necropolis (Santu Pedru)
3200 bc.
The symbolic "fake door" has been partially ruined by tomb robbers looking for treasures.
>>1124647
Monte d'accoddi step pyramid (Sardinia)
4000-3600 bc
>>1124626
>Janas.
You guys have them too? Xanas/Janas/juanas are pretty common in Spain, nature spirits than live under ground or near water. They tend to comb they hair too.
>>1124653
Nuraghe Nieddu (1400 bc)
>>1124676
Yes they're spirits/ fairies, according to the folklore they built these necropolis and they live there.
>>1124691
Woa, more or less the same there, depending of the zone they are called Encantadas, Morus/Moros (they don't have anything to do with Moors, they are called gentiles,romans or greeks, my pet theories is the way to call faeries, the others) , Gentilak, but they are the ones than made all the megaliths here too. Pretty cool how all of those things tend to crop in all europe.
>>1124213
>>1124223
>>1120570
>>1124626
>>1124635
>>1124653
Man what is the deal with Sardinia anyway?
They have the oldest genetic stock in Europe, and apparently they came up with pyramids around the same time as the Egyptians, and were building medieval concentric castles thousands of years before the middle ages.
And yet they just look like your stereotypical lazy, half-Moorish, big-nosed mediterraneans.
>>1124647
>The symbolic "fake door" has been partially ruined by tomb robbers looking for treasures.
God, tomb raiders piss me the fuck off.
>>1114812
Yes, german tribes were in actual germany back there. They just came in the western side of the Rhin because of Attila; the first indo-europeans came in the Vth millenium BC
>>1124878
They don't look moorish at all. They don't have big noses neither to most south Italians
>>1124878
>And yet they just look like your stereotypical lazy, half-Moorish, big-nosed mediterraneans.
Sigh...
>>1124934
Germanic as a language didn't exist 3300 years BC. At such time we can only talk about Proto-Indo-Europeans.
Proto-Germanic itself is dated to about 500BC.
>>1124878
>And yet they just look like your stereotypical lazy, half-Moorish, big-nosed mediterraneans.
That's because they're almost entirely descended from Neolithic Anatolian farmers
The average European is a mix of Aboriginal Europeans, Anatolian farmers, and Aryans
>>1124676
Sounds like our fairies in Ireland, the Aos SÃ
>>1124905
Yeah, sadly tomb raiders are a big problem here in Sardinia, they sacked a great number of tombs in the ancient city of Tharros, taking with them a huge load of golden manufacts, there was an enormous quantity of golden objects in the city, but sadly most of those jewels now are gone forever.
>>1124878
Yeah it's sad, Sardinia has a huge number of unique archeological sites but Sardinians don't know how to preserve them or make them known.
For instance when the Nuragic statues of Monte prama were found, that is, the oldest human sized statues in Europe, they were left to rott in a establishment fragmented in thousands of pieces for 40 years, yes 40 and they were barley even studied or rbought up by any Italian archeologist during that time.
Only around 2010 because of a petition the statues were finally resstored and exposed in a Museum around 2014, and thanks to the recent carbon dating done on the bones of those buried beneath those statues we know that they could be as old as 1100 bc,.
>>1124959
No, Sardinians have around 34% Western hunter gatherer DNA, I guess that your study takes in account the ancient european farmers as a mix of anatolian farmers and wester hunter gatherers.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x8pm8sVcHqceiNFJMO082kxaBF5ePr4__bAK05VQRFw/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=1681484272
>>1124878
All civilizations have a shelf life
>>1124955
>Proto-Germanic itself is dated to about 500BC.
What did they speak before that?
>>1125399
PIE, or more likely a PIE derivative of which we don't have enough knowledge to talk about.
>>1125008
Why is Sardinia so fucking interesting?
>>1126062
Yeah and it's been overlooked for so long, pic related is a Nuragic ritualistic fountain, water used to pour down from those holes into the stone bowl at the centre.
They also built an acqueduct and they had sacred pools where they bathed, they did develop some advanced idraulic systems for the time.
>>1126107
And this is from around the same time Otzi lived in the Alps.
And his genetics are most similar to present-day sardinians.
It's all a big mindfuck, I must know more.
>>1126133
Well Otzi was contemporary to the necropolis I've shown before and to the step pyramids (late neolithic/copper age), these fountains and baths developed during the bronze age.
Anyway Sardinian Obsidian reached Continental Italy, France and elsewhere since the neolithic, there was a huge trade network.
>>1126157
During the late bronze age it was probably Sardinians who introduced iron working to the villanovians/proto-etruscans in central Italy (pic related) and a vast number of Sardinians was buried in Etruscan settlements, a lot of Nuragic objects (such as votive bronze statuettes) were found in early Etruscan necropolis.
As much as 60% of the materials found in those settlements was of Sardinian origins.
>>1113380
>you will never live comfy adventures in an age undreamed of.
>not even in vidya.
>bronze age? What's that? Have some more LotR
>>1126244
>tfw adventures will never be real
>History, videogames, books, movies, Etc all show amazing things that you will never experience
Kill me.
>>1126157
>Sardinia has obsidian
That could explain the advancement of their ancient culture; the obsidian was formed by the heat from the impact as their spacecraft crashed into earth like a comet.
>>1114873
And i thank you.
>>1126168
Shard found in Sardinia containing Ugaritic writings according to paleographer and expert in Assyriology Giovanni Pettinato, he dated this document to 1400-1300 bc, weirdly enough during that time the Sherden mercenaries were mentioned in Ugaritic and Egyptian sources, coming from the midst of the sea with their warships.
>>1126244
There was an turn-based strategy game by Slitherine Studios, I think it was called Chariots Of War, set in egypt and middle east during the bronze age.
Another turn based strategy game by the same guys, Spartan: Gates Of Troy, has one "achaeans vs trojans" campaign scenario and an "archaic greece" sandbox scenario with mycenean, minoan, pelasgian and troadian factions. Guess those two MAY sate your need for bronze age stuff.
Also one or more Mount&Blade: Warband mods set in the era of the trojan war are being developed, but nothing more than that (if we don't count the WIP cavemen mod).
>>1127022
>an turn-based
Fuck me I'm dumb
Also LotR needs to fucking die
>>1127022
I hope it will be a thing for M&B Bannerlord. If it becomes as moddable as they promised we should have lots of interesting stuff happening.
>>1113148
>tell me about europe pre-civilization
Why does he wear the wolf pelt?
>>1114760
His real name was Pekka.
>>1127726
I was nobody before a slew the wolf.
>>1125022
>modern day sards are mixed
but nuragics were puro anatoles
>>1115564
Proto-Indo-Iranian should be changed to Proto-Indo-European.
>>1125022
"No".
The imag3 clearly includes WHG as a separate component, about 5% by sight.
The article this is from was published in one of the most respected and peer reviwed journals, Nature. Reich 2015, "Massive migration from the steppe"
Im not sure where your image is from, but im not going to risk clicking your link for a google docs spreadsheet.
>>1127862
Well let's see, this other study from 2015 that was published in the leading scientific journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, PNAS tells another story.
As you can see from pic related this recent study gives Sardinian around 35% WHG DNA and Spaniards about 45-50%, while according to your study Sardinians have about 5% and Spaniards have about 0%.
So who am I to trust?
Obviously none of us has enough knowledge on genetics to fully understand these pictures, I suggest we wait for someone with deep enough knowledge on genetics to discuss these studies.
The study:
http://www.uu.se/en/media/press-releases/press-release/?id=2816&area=3,8&typ=pm&lang=en
"Ancient genomes link early farmers to Basques
Press release"
2015-09-07
>>1127819
I don't think so, around the early bronze age the bell beaker culture reached some parts of Sardinia and so most likely some of them settled, even though it was a minority they might have effected Sardinian genetics somehow.
>>1128592
>I suggest we wait for someone with deep enough knowledge on genetics to discuss these studies.
Ask /sci/.
>>1128698
>/sci/
>knowledge
Nigga you better be trolling.
>>1126648
>Shard found in Sardinia containing Ugaritic writings
>>1126648
whoa, seriously? source please
>>1129127
http://gianfrancopintoredotblogspotdotit/2011/01/la-storia-del-coccio-di-mogoro-secondodothtml
Sadly there's no much about it.
The article is in Italian, basically it's about the fact that this document was classified as such (Ugaritic writing from the XV-XIV century bc) by Giovanni Pettinato, a famous assyrilogist and paleographer who discovered the royal library of Ebla.
Anyway according to this article a minister and two senators asked about the object.
The archeological superintendence of Cagliari responded that it is looking for the object which seems to have disappeared.
The article concludes with the statement that a thermoluniscence exam could finally confirm the dating of the object.
In the comments people are expressing their anger and frustration at the fact that such an important document hasn't been found yet.
>>1129559
BASED
>>1129559
Another "misterious disappearing", how surprising. We should start a protest about it, maybe it will manage to magically come out of someone's closet again, like the scaraboid of Mont'e Prama did.
>>1129559
I wish I had already learned hebrew, Ugaritic is extremely similar to it from what I've heard, besides not using the square script
>>1130059
I suppose That's the same scarab that has been recently determined to be an Egyptian scarab of the new kingdom and dated to 1300-1050 bc, same as the bones dated with c14 of those buried in the necropolis beneath the statues
>>1125399
We don't know, but there had to be a gradual change leading from PIE to proto-Germanic.
>>1124647
Reconstruction of a tomb inside the mesu e montes necropolis, Sardinia (3200-2700 bc)
>>1119962
I swear there's one anon on here who is really into the Nuraghe/Sardinians who is beating the drum for them across this board singlehandedly. Not that I disapprove,they are interesting. My guess is that you are a proud Sardinian yourself?
For me, the Etruscans are more enigmatic and interesting. I think the Romans deliberately erased them from history later on (as they obliterated Dacian and Carthaginian culture.) Claudius' twenty volume history on them has been lost. Indeed, the Romans may have done the same to Nuraghe culture.
>>1131958
Yeah it's mostly me and another guy.
The current theory is that the Nuragic culture might have been obliterated by the Carthaginians around the 6th-5th century bc, for instance the Nuragic statues of monte Prama were most likely destroyed by the Punics.
The Romans speak of Carthaginian invasions in Sardinia during the 6th century bc and they report the loss of the whole Carthaginian army led by the king Malco, who was executed when he returned to Carthage.
They said that the army was of 80,000 men but that's most likely exaggerated, still it indicates that the army was huge and that the Carthaginians made some huge effort in order to gain the control of Sardinia.
Phoenicians were assimilated fine in the Nuragic coastal settlements but it seems that the Carthaginians became imperialistic around the 6th century.
Later the Romans struck the final blow with Tiberius Graccus enslaving several tens of thousands of Sardinian rebels who didn't accept the rule of Rome, Romans launched a huge amount of campaigns against the rebellious Sardinians, I don't remember the exact number but the number of legionary campaigns was huge from what I remember, so they tried to supress Sardinian culture as much as they could, see for instance the oration of Cicero against the Sardinians "not even a city in Sardinia is friend with Rome" "In Sardinia even the honey is bitter"..
>>1132028
Well, Carthage was founded by Phoenicians IIRC. They would be like cousins. It seemed inevitable that they would subjugate the island once the coast had been settled.
>>1132083
Phoenicians were organized in city states in competition with eachother, at least in the beginning, the Phoenicians who settled in Sardinia during the first wave mixed with the natives peacefully during the early iron age, most of these coastl cities started out as Nuragic settlements (Tharros, Nora).
From wikipedia:
"Recent researches (2010) have nevertheless demonstrated that the old idea of a Nuragic civilization collapsing upon the arrival of Phoenicians and their colonization of Sardinia, is completely outdated. Phoenicians started to arrive in Sardinia around the 9th century BC, in small number, and remained scattered along the coastline. This period was the heyday of Nuragic society and Phoenicians started to cooperate with the Nuragics that, in turn, continued to administer harbours and economic resources.[48]"
So you shouldn't think about Phoenicians as a sole political unit, before Carthage took over and became imperialistic the cities were indipendent city states.
>>1131014
Yep. After its discovery Carlo Tronchetti (from the Archaeological Soprintendenza Office) and others went on for years saying that it was made out of bone or ivory and dated it from the last quarter of the VII century, all to try to say that it was for sure not a sign of a direct contact with Egypt and justify their bullshit ideas about Mont'e Prama being born only thanks to the interection of the locals with the phoenicians of Tharros.
When the possibility to analize it actually came out, the scaraboid disappeared for a while (being in the Office's hands, mind you) until when, thanks to newspapers and denounces from both Francesco Nicosia (from the Office as well, maybe knowing the responsible and maybe not) and Raimondo Zucca, it came out again from thin air, apparently, and, surprise surprise, both the material (steatite, not bone) and the time were wrong. Quite a peculiar story, for sure. Not the only one, of course, but Sardinia is magical like that.
>>1132124
The fact that they made such a clamorous mistake in determining the material of which the scarab was made of is simply absurd.
>>1132109
The Phoenecians did well after the Bronze Age collapse, I know that much. One of the sea peoples perhaps?
They strike me as the best sailors, shipmakers, and traders of the time and the likes of Assyria, Egypt, Persia and the Macedonians treated them with kid gloves, when they would simply stomp out other cultures.
Everybody wanted Phoenicia on their side, and perhaps this explains the Nuraghe's permissiveness towards them.
>>1132156
>The Phoenecians did well after the Bronze Age collapse, I know that much. One of the sea peoples perhaps?
Well some sea people settled in the Levant, for instance the Peleset (Philistines) and the Tjekker, that might have helped in expanding the already good knowledge of sailing that the local population had, keep in mind that Ugarit in modern day Syria was the biggest port in the Mediterranean before the bronze age collapse.
Phoenicians themselves were not sea people, because Egyptians never mentioned among them, Egyptians listed the tribes belonging to the sea people and their name is never mentioned, the Phoenicians were already known by the Egyptians as Canaaneas or Fenkhu and their lands were well known by them, while the sea people came from foreign, distant lands in the far north and from the middle of the sea.
>>1132184
There is a compelling argument by the Luwian Studies group that the sea peoples were from Western Anatolia. They think there is a civilisation waiting to be uncovered there, around Troy, and that these Luwians formed a sea-faring confederation and attacked the Hittites and Ugarit, and more.
So this lecture may interest you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DNyA90f_aw
>>1132132
It happens when you want to demonstrate your ideas against all evidence (see: Nuragic civilization not being advanced enough before the punics because MUH EX ORIENTE LUX and all the other stuff). That same dude even tried to just ignore the new analysis and datation (and all the other papers by basically everyone else) and go on with the "VII century" thing, for a while. Just flat out ignoring it, except when he had to work with another guy.
Same thing happened before, when someone tried to insist on the nuragics not being navigators (when navigation existed in Sardinia since way before, ex. the commerce of obsidian). They went so far as saying that the bronze ship models (pic related) found in tombs and sanctuaries were not representing ships but were just lanterns. Seriously. Someone actually even had to make copies of those to prove how that could never work.
Another instance was a professor bringing politics in his material for students in order to attack the theory of the Mont'e Prama statues being older then the VIII century, and again being proven wrong by the last C-14 analysis of the tombs (that determined they are from the XII - X century period), that establish those statues as the first anthropomorphic of Europe, before the Greek kuroi.
Every time it's like the reaction to the Monty Hall problem (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_problem#Vos_Savant_and_the_media_furor) x100, helped also by the different nature of the discipline.
BTW >>1131958 I don't know if I'm the other guy >>1132028 is talking about (I mostly hang out on /int/ but I come here every one and there), so maybe there could be a few of us.
>>1132354
>every now and then
Autocorrect.
>>1127862
LBK was not purely anatolian neolithic and had a whg component himself, the separate WHG component of your pic seems to represent additional WHG, perhaps from some HG stuck on the island since the last glacial maximum or who knows
>>1132265
Thank you, really interesting indeed, I was just looking for more information about Troy and the Luwian people.
I did not about the Luwians, as far as I know they were divided in 4 kingdoms and were tributary to the Hittities most of the time.
> the sea peoples were from Western Anatolia.
Well I think that while it is true that some of the sea people tribes, maybe even half of them, were from Anatolia, I do not believe all of theme were from there, I'll explain to you my theory.
The Lycians, from South Western Anatolia were certainly the Lukkans, one of the sea people, it is certain because the Hittities listed them as one of the people living in Arzawa (Western Anatolia) and because the king of Ugarit mentioned to have visited the land of the Lukka too, further proof comes from the fact that the kind of Cyprus lamented that the coasts were constantly raided from Lukkan pirates, that would have been really easy to do from their position in South western Anatolia.
The Philistines too were part of the confederation and I'd say that their identity is more or less certain, they do not come by ship to Palestine according to the Egyptians, but by chariot, the Hittities mentioned a land of the Peleset in South (Eastern in this case) Anatolia, so in this case it is pretty much obvious that it was the homeland of the Peleset.
So yes, at the very least these ones came from Anatolia.
But the Egyptians stated that these people came from all lands, so I don't think they came only from Anatolia for this and various reasons.
For instance the Akawasa and the Deynen came most likely from Mycenean Greece, they sound too much like the Acheans and he Danaoi of the war of Troy to be a coincidence, the Acheans were mentioned by the Hittities too.
The Tjekker come from Troy but we don't know too much about them.
The Shekelesh could very well be connected to the Sicels, as the Myceneans settled in Sicily and had many contacts with the locals.
>>1132391
TURN AROUND
>>1133694
Continuing:
The Sherden are the sea people tribe that is mentioned the most by the Egyptians, most likely because the Sherden are the only one of the sea people to have been part of the King's guard.
They've been identified with the Sardinians for a number of reasons, and I'm almost completely convinced about this because of all the research I made about them and about Late Bronze Age Sardinians.
First of all if the Sherden came from Anatolia, they and their land would have most likely been mentioned by the Hittities, as the Lukkans were multiple times and the Peleset were too.
Sardeis, the only place that could be connected to the name SRDN or Sherden, was never mentioned in the bronze age and even if a minor settlement might have existed back then, it would have been distant from the sea, and it would have opposed the idea of the Sherden being pirates that we know from the Egyptians, as Sardeis was well over 150 kilometers from the coast.
However what the Egyptians states about the Sherden homeland is:
"the unruly Sherden whom no one had ever known how to combat, they came boldly sailing in their warships from the midst of the sea, none being able to withstand them."
>>1133769
Continuing:
Now I'll state why the Sherden can be the ancient Sardinians of the late Bronze Age.
First of all, the homeland of the Sherden seems to have been really distant from that of the other sea people, while the Sherden are often mentioned as one of the sea peoples by the Egyptians, when the sea peoples form their famous coalition in "their lands", the Sherden, one of the most prominent sea people groups, are left out, Ramses III stated:
"The foreign countries (ie. Sea Peoples) made a conspiracy in their islands, All at once the lands were removed and scattered in the fray. No land could stand before their arms: from Hatti, Qode, Carchemish, Arzawa and Alashiya on, being cut off [ie. destroyed] at one time. A camp was set up in Amurru. They desolated its people, and its land was like that which has never come into being. They were coming forward toward Egypt, while the flame was prepared before them. Their confederation was the Peleset, Tjeker, Shekelesh, Denyen and Weshesh, lands united. They laid their hands upon the land as far as the circuit of the earth, their hearts confident and trusting: "Our plans will succeed!"
Now how come the Sherden are left out of this coalition? We know they were active in Egypt, well it's simple, their homeland (Sardinia) was too distant in order for them to form an actual political alliance, also notice how Arzawa was destroyed by this coalition too, this makes the idea of all the sea people coming from Western Anatolia completely incorrect, in this case the majority of the people mentioned were mostl likely of Mycenean origins and we do know that during that time Myceneans were conquering part of the Western Anatolian coast and founding colonies like Miletus and Ephesus there.
>>1133841
Continuing:
Now let's see, what were the Nuragic Sardinians known as?
One of the earliest documents we have in Sardinia is the Nora stone (850 bc), here the name SRDN is mentioned to refer to Sardinians, exactly the same as the SRDN mercenaries of the Egyptian and Ugaritic documents of the late bronze age.
But were Sardinians well connected enough to the Eastern Mediterranean to reach Egypt and the Levant?
My answer is yes, Sardinians had frequent contacts witht he Myceneans and the Cypriots, Mycenean pottery is well attested in Sardinia and vice versa Nuragic pottery is present in the Mycenean world.
This Nuragic pottery wasn't particularly valuable, it was common domestic pottery, so it came with the people who made it, the Nuragics, it was found in Sicily, in Lipari, in Mycenean Greece, Crete, and as resecntly discovered (2010) in Cyprus too, in this last case, in what has been classified as a sea people site.
The Nuragics weren't the only ones to come as mercenaries, Italic people most likely were present too, as Barbarian ware from Italy was well attested too in the Mycenean world.
But just how well connected was Sardinia to the Eastern Mediterranean?
Well a recent discovery (2010) of melon seeds found in Nuragic wells dated with C14 to 1350-1120 bc, shows that not only the Nuragics were the first ones to cultivated melons in Europe, but that they had most likely direct contacts with either Egyptians or Near Easterners, as melons could have only been brought from there at the time.
Sardinia had the largest deposits of copper in Europe at the time after Cyprus, and the largest silver deposits, so this put it in a central position in the Mediterranean trade, a research from 2013 demonstrated that Scandinavian swords were made of Sardinian and Iberian copper since at least 1600 bc, furthermore the biggest number of copper oxhide ingots, basically the currency of the time, was found in Sardinia.
>>1133850
>be an ancient thriving bronze age civilization in the age of heroes alongside egypt, the hittites, mycenaea and the minoans
>switch up on everyone and join the "sea peoples" on their quest to destroy everything and usher in a dark age
what was their fucking problem
>>1133850
Continuing:
Now, last but not least, let's look at Nuragic art and its connection with the sea people.
The Nuragic bronze statuettes or "bronzetti" represent priests, soldiers, commoners, chiefs, boxers and objects like chariots, builldings, and ships, about 157 ships, thus the most represented subject.
The Nuragic statues represent foot soldiers, archers, boxers and the so called "Nuraghi models".
Both of these date back to the late bronze age/ early iron age, so more or less during the time when the Sherden were mentioned.
The usual attire of the warriors was a horned helmet, that was made sometimes of bronze, sometimes of leather, a sword and a circular shield, so quite similar to the attire of the Sherden.
While there is one instance of a horned mycenean helmet being depicted on a vase, it is an isolated case and it looks nothing like the Sherden helmet, the usual helmet for the Myceneans was the boar tusk helmet and the usual shield was the eight shield.
What is actually widely attested in the Mycenean and Anatolian world is the plummed helmet is the plummet helmet that belonged to the Philistines , Tjekker and to the Weshesh, that kind of helmet is depicted in a Nuragic bronze figurine too, but it's an isolated case, also that figurine was found nearby a site usually frequented by the Myceneans, where also boar tusk helmets depictions were found.
Another important thing to discuss is the statues, they're basically the oldest in Europe, and while original and a product of the native population, they might have very well been inspired by the statues that both the Egyptians and other Near Easterners made, and this would have only been possible through direct contact with them, since the Mycenean Greeks never built human sized statues, the find of an Egyptian scarab dated to the late bronze age buried in the necropolis enforces this theory.
>>1133868
You got a faster way to make fat sacks of cash money and get tons of sexy slave girls to fuck whenever you please?
>>1133694
The compelling thing about the Luwian Studies video for me was the amount of burial mounds that are apparently laying around Western Anatolia unexcavated. If they raise the money and interest in order to dig them, we will surely know a lot more about the Bronze Age settlements East of the Aegean.
About Troy, you ought to consider The Iliad by Homer if you haven't already done so. It can be read like historical fiction so there are kernels of truth in it. His 'catalogue of ships' is pretty much an order of battle for both the Greek league, and the Trojans and their allies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_Battle_Order
Among them are the Lycians - who could be the Lukka as you say.
Herodotus also wrote down an oral memory of Anatolian cultures sailing West to escape famine.
>>1134220
>Herodotus also wrote down an oral memory of Anatolian cultures sailing West to escape famine.
Yes, Greek historians claimed that some of the Sardinian people descended from Trojan refugees, of course it's just an oral memory but still interesting.
According to some Greek writers Talos was built in order to defend Crete from Sardinian raids.
>>1133916
Didn't they find lots of Mycenaean pottery that's locally made in Philistines lands? And that they worshiped same gods?
>>1134333
Well yes, it could have been that their land of origin was in the Aegean and that they later moved to South Eastern Turkey in Palistin first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palistin
And moved from there by land to actual Palestine where they settled permanently.
