How could 60s counter culture even start when America had just saved the world, given rights to blacks, and had gone through the 50s, the pinnacle decade of Western civilisation?
Does this show that people desire something to complain about?
>>1098410
Communist subversion.
>>1098410
>given blacks rights
sure the right to the hose
>>1098410
>mai golden age ruined by hippies
If you are going to discuss history throw off the ideological goggles if you want anyone to take you seriously.
>>1098410
where are you from you seem to have a distant and idealistic vison of the 50s not what we were taught in school
It is an academic thing. Some kinds of philosophers became more popular and influenced the intellectual elite, which in turn influenced the rest of society.
I remember reading about those American soldiers that were locked in Vietnam for 7 years. They couldn't recognize America anymore, due to this.
Communist infiltration.
>suppression of civil liberties in the name of anti communism
>non whites treated like second class citizens
Why are the 50s so glorified?
>>1098480
Because /pol/lacks.
>>1098480
b-but FALLOUT video games!
>>1098480
Well crime rates were a lot lower then. Now all they do is commit crime
>>1098459
>>1098480
>>1098495
You people are fucking stupid
Post WWII U.S. is probably the most prosperous era of any nation in history up until some time in the 70s, and I'll throw you a bone so you don't whine more about /pol/ and say that it effectively ended with Reagan.
The irony of Marxist revisionism crying about muh racism when there was no better time to be middle or working class is amusing
Also ironic in the fact that despite African-Americans faced open discrimination in the South, they didn't suffer from many of the social issues effecting them today.
>>1098500
The fallout old world was more one of scarcity and conflict, not the idealistic bs that Bethesda tries to shill
>>1098509
>implying I believed what they taught me
I simply said that was what I was taught, maybe we should have eased them into proper society, instead of giving them rights all at once
>>1098509
Does Marxism mean anything at this point?
>>1098410
The 70s may have been a rough time, but you'll neeeeeeeever guess who managed to single-handedly fucking destroy America's future forever because this whole fucking country is too busy uncritically sucking his cock 24/7.
>>1098410
Dialectics you idiot
>>1098480
>low crime
>low unemployment
>everything becomes more affordable
>heaps of working class families jumping into middle class over the span of a few years
>30% growth of purchasing power over one decade
>new comfortable and affordable housing
>advances in car and airplane transportation
>interstate system built
>gigantic advancements in medicie
>focus on family values
But of course, all of that is irrelevant because MUH BUS SEATS and MUH BLACKLISTED SCREENWRITERS.
>>1098410
>the 50s, the pinnacle decade of Western civilisation?
>most of Europe in ruins
>America intact
What a disgusting decade that was.
>>1098509
It was a population boom that was bound to collapse
>>1098542
90% of which only applied if you were white
>>1098542
>implying any of that is sustainable
>>1098549
Wrong
Unless you were black in the South is also applied to you
It's ironic that despite living in a time where systematic racism was rampant in some parts of the country, African-Americans were still better off in some ways.
Also, the country was 90% white during that time so you're pretty much talking about everyone anyway
>>1098549
The blacks were only 10% of the population. TEN PERCENT. And it's not like they were prohibited from owning cars and houses.
>>1098551
You're profoundly missing the point.
Yeah, it wasn't sustainable, for various reasons. But for the period when it was sustainable it was pretty damn good, which is why the time is looked back on fondly.
>>1098568
I guess, but it's important to note that that kind of era brings its own demise. No point fantasizing about it
>>1098410
Counter culture included being more accepting of other cultures, re-connection with nature, free love, and music, among other things.
It's not hard to see how that came about, people were willing to take on bigger issues because of the period of growth and prosperity. The people that were historically oppressed and problems people saw in the world finally seemed able to be overcame. They weren't just looking for something to complain about, there has always been poverty, there has always been suffering. Why is it weird to want to make it less?
>>1098562
from buying houses in certain neighborhoods, yes
>>1098509
>he fell for the golden 50s meme
Anon, the 50s started with a devastating, unpopular war. Truman's approval rating by the end of the Korean War was lower than Johnson after Tet or Nixon during Watergate.
Throw in the absolute terror of nuclear annihilation, the spooling up of the civil rights movement, and the pervasive Red Scare, and you have a decade of building social tensions that led up to the political strife of the 60s.
I can't believe there are people who are saying Jim Crow was not bad....like maybe it's because I have really old parents who lived in that time period but this revision is insane.
There were only a few side effects (because I refuse to call them benefits) that probably were helpful inspire of mass discrimination. The Black upper class were indebted to the black masses, black teachers supported their students in an uplifting and empowering manner and it created the cultural renaissances from the 10's to present through utter deprivation.
But I mean for my sharecropping mother picking cotton with her siblings and her illiterate father they didn't benefit from any of that until they immigrated west and stayed away from migrating southern whites.
>>1098410
>It's a "The 50s was the best decade in America" episode.
>>1098604
>people think the 90s wasn't the peak of American civilization
>>1098410
people desire chaos and degeneracy. entropy is unstoppable. better give up and enjoy the ride to hell.
>>1098583
Absolutely none of your points argue against anything I said.
The Korean War was devastating. For Korea. The U.S. wasn't impacted at all, especially economically.
Other than the Cuban crisis, the threat of nuclear winter never became a reality until Brezhnev and Reagan went full retard in the 80s
The Vietnam War is where you can point the finger at the beginning of social upheaval and the twilight of the post-war boom in 70s as the end of the most economically successful period of any country, maybe ever. The Civil Rights movement was only really important for African-Americans, which I have conceded the time wasn't great for them but they were still better off in some ways.
So yes, nothing you've said refutes the 'golden 50s meme' especially in regards to the economy, which even detractors and revisionists are never able to argue against and always focus on social issues.
Teenagers and young adults found the culture of the time boring and stifling, and elements of it certainly were. They instead flocked to or created their own works, which took many forms, from something abstract like beat poetry to less esoteric, more concrete forms of expression, like the heavily blues and gospel influenced rock music that begun to pop up.
American parents, who were formerly enjoying a post-war population explosion, were shocked and outraged by these forms of expression for many reasons, and started what is often called a moral panic. Thus, disconnect between the generations begun to grow, a detachment that was certainly not helped by our aggressive foreign policy, which often put the lives of the (often disenfranchised) young people and racial minorities on the line.
>>1098528
Apparently it means disagreeing historical narratives annon doesn't or even trying to approach history without heavy political bias
>>1098617
The main issue for the hippies was social because of how conformist everyone was in the 50's. It sounds like a horrible decade
>>1098617
We were not better off at all anon
What happened after the era of the 5 Good Emperors? What happens with every dynasty of Chinese Emperors?
>>1098641
someone puts their shitty kid on top of the pile and he shits down the peak
>>1098637
It is irrefutable that the country was better off economically. You are simply a moron if you think otherwise.
>>1098649
This is kind of why everything went to shit. Baby boomers were collectively the most spoiled bunch of cunts ever.
>>1098542
>MUH BLACKLISTED SCREENWRITERS.
congratulations. your world view is so sophisticated that 40% of your black text is based around a random movie that came out a year ago.
>>1098650
Better off economically because literally every country in the world was hit with a crippling disaster from war. This is simply economics not magic "golden age" or something. Of course that sort of state would end in a decade or so.
Better off socially is a matter of debate
The 50s were good because of relatively isolationist foreign policy.
The US fought a simple, defensive, conventional war, and then didn't lose a single man in combat until the end of the decade.
The 90s also had this pattern. A simple, defensive conventional war, followed by a lack of serious ground combat.
And then the neocons fuck it up with a poorly thought out foreign war.
>>1098662
You mean 15 years ago? The Majestic came out in 2001.
>>1098663
>Better off economically because literally every country in the world was hit with a crippling disaster from war. This is simply economics not magic "golden age" or something.
Nice circular reasoning
>>1098650
Not for black people
>>1098676
Not him but how is that circular reasoning
>>1098676
The point is it wasn't some sort of special cultural or idealogicl force that made economics good, it was that everyone else was in a depression, this meant the dollar had huge purchasing power.
It's not something the 60s kids "fucked up" but just the purchasing power going down because the depressed countries started recovering. This would have happened no matter what sort of idealogy the 60s kids had.
Now do you understand basic economics?
>>1098664
>defensive war
kek
>>1098410
why do you think? Kids grew up and became rebellious adults. Also the major tenets of early 20th century progressivism totally failed, some specific examples:
- TV replaced newspapers and radio as the main source of cultural socialization in households
- Americans became suburban, rather than urban, people
- railroads stopped being profitable and fell into serious disrepair. Penn Central RR even sold their historic NY Central terminal to the Knicks. A large part of this was government regulations on railroad pricing (which went away in the 1980s, and following that consolidation into the current big four US RRs). pic related
- welfare programs ripped families apart (for example, a mother could only obtain welfare if she was single)
- organized crime fell apart as their neighborhoods were filled with new immigrants, who made huge money off the then fetal drug trade
- blacks were now allowed to buy into white communities
- LBJ cut and run, destroying his party's coalition and tacitly admitting Vietnam wasn't winnable
- Nixon was a crook (a big fucking deal at the time)
- Mao died, and China was willing to liberalize some of their economic policies for US companies
- OPEC brought America to it's knees with the oil crisis (something which nobody had previously thought possible)
- the space race was won and NASA had gone to the moon first
tl;dr things changed
>>1098679
>10% of the population was worse off than the 90%, therefore it was shit
Free speech movement. Blame those fuckers up at Cal.
>>1098711
The statement was
>The Civil Rights movement was only really important for African-Americans, which I have conceded the time wasn't great for them but they were still better off in some ways
This is incorrect
>>1098617
protip: the 50s were great for white people. Blacks lived in total poverty, with many rural areas resembling the third world (no water, power, or phone service). Illiteracy was extremely common, even gangsters today can read at a 3rd grade level.
For white people it was alright, if you ignore the recession in the early 1950s.
>>1098558
Lemmie tell you why that is wrong: Northerners are just as fucking racist. There were race riots as far north as Boston. If you moved from the deep south to New York City, you were still liable to face racism. Your house wouldn't be firebombed, but you could still be denied the same opportunities that were given to whites.
In what ways are blacks better off?
No, it wasn't 90% white, but it sure as fuck seemed like it was don't it?
>>1098562
Actually they were. If you were black and driving a police officer could pull you over and beat your ass for no god damned reason.
>>1098617
Honestly, I would argue that the civil rights movement is important to all Americans. It has really had a profound affect on many other movements, and has made America more of a welcoming place.
>>1098664
>1950s
>isolationist foreign policy
Eisenhower went full brinkmanship, putting nuclear weapons in any country he could. This is how the US got entangled in both Korea and Vietnam.
Conventional wars do not imply isolationism.
>>1098730
>the country was better off economically
>not for black people
>>1098722
and why did those people act as they did? Because they got to be on TV. The cultural impact of having an easily accessible visual medium (especially one that can operate in real time) can not be understated. This is how you get all the stupid "the whole world is watching" and "peaceful" chimpouts, because people know they are being watched and are playing for the camera
Neil Postman wrote about this specially in his book "Amusing Ourselves To Death".
>>1098740
>If you were black and driving a police officer could pull you over and beat your ass for no god damned reason.
This happened to me when I was a teen and I'm white. I'm being oppressed I guess.
>>1098752
yeah except nowadays when you were arrested you'd be given court-appointed legal counsel. This is not a right you had before Powell v Alabama:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powell_v._Alabama
>In Powell v. Alabama, 287 U.S. 45 (1932) the United States Supreme Court reversed the convictions of nine young black men for allegedly raping two white women on a freight train near Scottsboro, Alabama. The majority of the Court reasoned that the right to retain and be represented by a lawyer was fundamental to a fair trial and that at least in some circumstances, the trial judge must inform a defendant of this right. In addition, if the defendant cannot afford a lawyer, the court must appoint one sufficiently far in advance of trial to permit the lawyer to prepare adequately for the trial.
which, of course, was also not very well enforced since nobody gave a shit about niggers until the feds imposed the civil rights act and thus opened up courts to litigation
>>1098759
I wasn't arrested. It happened exactly as described, a cop pulled me over and beat me up, then left.
>>1098752
Were you targeted and those in your community targeted for being white folks who were moving up economically by a black population who were in positions of authority and power on all levels of government?
If not its a false equivalency
>>1098780
I honestly don't know to this day, not that I really care. The cop was white so it wasn't about race I guess.
>>1098785
If he pulled you over and said, "where'd you get that car nigger?" Then congratulations, you are a 1960s black man.
>>1098785
See dude. Doesn't take away from the fact that the officer was a piece of shit, it just isn't the same.
>>1098793
A police office flashed a lighted/pulled a gun on me while walking home one night in my neighborhood and asked what I was doing there. Apparently people said they saw a suspicious man even though I was a Fucking 15 year old with an Afro wearing Hollister.
>>1098535
This /thread
>>1098480
>Why are the 50s so glorified?
Because people (/pol/) still blindly believe propaganda that was used against the reds 65 years later.
>>1098410
So is your autism special assistance-tier, or can you at least live independently?
>>1098410
Counterculture began in the 50s. It led to desegregation, not vice versa.
>>1098480
Bitter whites
>>1098562
>black people weren't prohibited from buying houses
KEK
>>1098727
I like how you can look at news and see whats going on today and say "yeah its just a meme, no communism here, boys!"
>you will never buy a new 50's Chevy
Just kill me now senpai
>>1098480
Actual social cohesion throughout most of society
Affordable and cheap housing
Being able to earn a livable wage and support a family with a high school diploma
General upward mobility
Interstates
Eisenhower in general
Racial homogeneity
>>1098740
>No, it wasn't 90% white, but it sure as fuck seemed like it was don't it?
Actually...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_racial_and_ethnic_demographics_of_the_United_States#Historical_data_for_all_races_and_for_Hispanic_origin_.281610.E2.80.932010.29
>1950
>89.5% white
>87.4% Non-Hispanic white
Not quite 90% but pretty fucking close
>>1098664
Since the 90's ended with the WTC bombing, did the 50's end with Kennedy's murder?
>>1098664
>isolationist foreign policy
You're fucking nuts if you think the US was in ANYWAY isolationist in the 1950's.
>troops in Europe
>troops in Japan
>nukes in a multitude of countries
>the trip wire mechanism set against the Soviets
>>1098549
>90% of which only applied if you were white
90% of the population was white in the 50's
Look I get that /his/ is has a heavy left bias but claiming the 50's were not a good decade because a small minority of people didn't also experience the roses is quite frankly pure shit. For vast majority of people, there was no better decade than the 50's.
There is NEVER going to be a time when 100% of people personally get to experience a golden age. Someone, a certain group of people, are always going to be on the bottom rung of society. The closest America has ever come and likely will ever come to perfection for the most amount of people was the 50's.
>>1098410
>How could 60s counter culture even start when America had just saved the world, given rights to blacks, and had gone through the 50s, the pinnacle decade of Western civilisation?
LSD is a helluva drug
>>1098410
Counter-cultures started in Britain, then they've got fashionable overseas.
The main difference between British subcultures and "American" subcultures is that "British" subcultures evolved from teenage gangs, American ones were mostly pacifism-related(I wonder why would sub-cultures composed mostly of young men be anti-war... must be communism). Case in point - rockers.
>>1100560
Violent Counter-Cultures existed in the US. In fact British ones were modeled after American ones. Like the Mods in the 60's were modeled heavily over the Greaser who were notoriously violent and anti-establishment. The Fonzie from Happy Days should not be taken as an example of what it was to be a Greaser.
>>1100453
>buying such a car
>wearing such clothes
americans everyone
>>1100556
The countercultures used it way too much, way too fast. Any psychiatric value that the drug had no longer mattered because Timothy Leary and his ilk decided that the drug was best for a "spiritual and cultural awakening", which the government would obviously have none of. Too dangerous
>>1098617
We were never in threat of Nuclear winter desu senpai
>>1098704
>TV replaced newspapers and radio
This, this is the biggest issue.
>>1098534
Reagan was legitimately the worst president the US ever had. I concur, he completely ruined the future generations to follow.
>>1101010
nice binary digits
care to explain?
>>1101049
Different anon here - just off the top of my head
>Iran-Contra affair
>literally becoming senile during his presidency
>spiraling debt and deficit
Personally I don't think he's the worst president (hell, Carter was worse), but I really hate how the Right seems to worship him, especially given that he was against many of the policies the Republicans hold dear today. I still can't understand why it's Reagan and not Eisenhower that's worshiped as the ideal Republican.
>>1101049
Well I'm certainly no expert, but I am of course entitled to my opinion.
Giving full support in billions of dollars to the Mujahideen was a terrible choice. Radical Islam took off in the late 70s, and the Reagan admin fully backed it so that the USSR would have their own version of Vietnam, which they did.
You can obviously see the blowback from that today very much so. Radical Islam is an enormous problem, and one which has its birth with American financial and military support.
I remember reading something about business as well, were the Reagan admin made it so that working class earners were no longer making fair amounts in comparison to the US's elite businessmen who run the whole show. Their profits kept sky-rocketing while working class people kept losing out gradually. Look at the massive dead-money scandal which just got uncovered with the Panama Papers. Nobody's going to do jack shit about it though.
>>1100531
the 50's ended WHEN Kennedy came into office
>>>1101010
That's not how you spell Woodrow Wilson.
>>1101096
>>Iran-Contra affair
>literally becoming senile during his presidency
>spiraling debt and deficit
First anon here. Yeah I forgot this - how could I forgot South America.
Also forgot Henry Kissinger under Reagan. That kike deserves to be prosecuted. I fucking hate him. The Reagan admin, of course Kissinger being empirical here, gave the still-very-fascist Argentina direct political support during their "dirty war." Argentinians were protesting against the corrupt nature of their insane government, and something like 40-50,000 Argentinians were tortured to death for wanting to make change.
"Quand la France s'ennuie… "
>>1101096
If Reagan ran again today on his same platform he'd have to run as a Democrat. Supporting amnesty for illegal immigrants would be enough
>>1101139
>If Reagan ran again today on his same platform he'd have to run as a Democrat
wut
>>1101278
The Republicans wouldn't support him. Many of his views, such as illegal immigration, would cause a lot of controversy in the Republican party. He would seem too liberal today. Maybe not a Democrat, but maybe independent. He wouldn't be the golden boy he is remembered as being.
>>1101127
wtf?
>>1101139
SJWs hate Reagan. There is no way in hell he would be a Democrat.
>>1098410
Besides the fact that this thread is filled with ignorant statements about the plight of blacks in the mid 21st century, everyone is completely ignoring that 50's America was a strange brew of new technology, new ideas and prosperity and fear. Those things coupled with the children of the forties and the frustrations they brought in would inevitably start some culture clash. It's probably the biggest one just because of the baby boom.
>>1098612
>not right now
shiggy diggy rose glasses
>>1098727
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3qkf3bajd4
Lessee hereabouts, what happened in the peaceful and ideal 1950s:
>June 25th, 1950: Korean War begins
>November 1st, 1950: Puerto Rican nationalists attempt to assassinate President Truman
>April 11th, 1951: Douglas MacArthur, after floating the idea of using nuclear weapons on Chinese forces, is stripped of command by President Truman
>July 11th, 1951: Cicero Race Riot. A mob of approximately 4,000 whites in Cicero, Illinois attack an apartment building that had a black family move in. It is the first race riot caught on national television, and the US receives worldwide condemnation. It is not the last.
>July 16th, 1951: Catcher in the Rye, a dark, cynical look at modern disaffected youth is published, sowing misery in schoolchildren for generations to come.
>June 19th, 1953: Julius and Ethel Rosenberg are executed for espionage in service to the Soviet Union.
>July 27th, 1953: Armistice is declared in the Korean War. Korean peninsula is split thereafter. American Dead: 36,574. Missing: 7,926. Wounded: 103,284. POW: 4,714. An unsatisfactory victory for the American public.
>August 19th, 1953: Operation Ajax overthrows the democratically elected leader of Iran. Shah Mossadegh would then be installed as leader of the country.
>June 18th, 1954: CIA overthrows Guatemala's democratically elected government.
>October 23rd, 1956: Hungarian revolution kicks off, attempting to gain freedom from Soviet Union. World watches as they are bloodily crushed.
>January 18th, 1958: Battle of Haye's Pond. KKK and Lumbee tribesmen open fire on one another in a clash.
>January 1st, 1959: Cuba's communist revolution attains its final victory. Communists aligned with the Soviet Union are barely miles from Florida.
During this of course you have the Beatniks, Kerouac, Ginsberg, Burroughs in resistant counter culture, American paranoia about communism under the specter of nuclear death, and an increasingly insistent second class population fighting for their rights. Peaceful.
>>1098410
>the 50s, the pinnacle decade of Western civilisation?
eww. Burgers are literally disgusting
>>1101513
Get out of here roastie
>>1098410
The history of society is one of cycles, alternating between liberalism and conservatism. That surprises you?
>>1098410
What about the trannies and the rest of the LMNOPBBQ community you bigot?
>>1098503
while crime rates did spike in the 60s, they have since come back down
>>1098410
>Pinnacle decade of Western civilization
You mean the Belle Époque right?
>>1098410
>How could 60s counter culture even start when America had just saved the world, given rights to blacks, and had gone through the 50s, the pinnacle decade of Western civilisation?
>Does this show that people desire something to complain about?
Not at all. US Counter-cultures came out of working class communities at the lower ends of the skill orders. Hell's Angels and Hippies both had their origin in transiently employed young men with no integrated cultural link to the white picket shit you posted. These aren't the people who saved the world, but who were drafted. These weren't the people who "gave rights" away like plastic crap in a cereal box, but resented wage and cultural competition in cheap rent suburbs. These weren't the people who "went through the 50s" because they were busy on the waterfront. They never experienced the pinnacle decade of Western civilisation because they were busy mucking streets.
Moreover, counter cultures weren't cultures of complaint, but cultures of flight and apathy.
Bother to read something before posting in future.
>>1100531
Yes.
>>1098704
>OPEC brought America to it's knees with the oil crisis
in 1973, so nothing to do with the 60s
>>1098664
>Defensive war
You serious?
>>1098617
>The Korean War was devastating. For Korea. The U.S. wasn't impacted at all
Wow. The forgotten war meme is real. In deaths (and 'missing') alone, the Korean war was in absolute terms, 70 times the effect of the 9/11 attacks.
For those of you going on about 'but low crime rates!'
That's about 13 years worth of all murder, in a more populous country. So I guess crime doesn't impact America at all.
>>1104953
630/11??!!!
>>1098558
Really 90% "white".. your just as gullible as everyone who thinks the 50's were awesome. .. again only if you were white
>>1098562
They still do that but u don't have to b black.. police always have been and always will b power hungry. They beat any1
>>1098735
>great for white people
*middle class
the rural whites were broke as they could get.
>>1098542
>racism is okay if the crime rates are low
retard
>>1098752
Police offers are sociopaths, it's just back then they were racist sociopaths.
>>1098410
>America had just saved the world, given rights to blacks, and had gone through the 50s, the pinnacle decade of Western civilisation
Because none of these things are true. The 50s were marked by another brutal war, social unrest, high taxes, constant fear and paranoia about nuclear war....the "white picket fence" was for middle and upper-class WASPs only, everyone else wasn't too happy about it. The insane rate of economic growth and the fact that everyone remembered how awful the 30s and 40s were kept everyone in line, but when growth began to slow and people born during WWII became adults, that faded away.
>>1101490
>you will never read your child a book about shitposting
;_;7
>>1098500
fallout satirizes the era quite obviously
>>1098410
>Does this show that people desire something to complain about?
No
>>1098542
Crime rates are about as low as they were back then
>>1098558
>It's ironic that despite living in a time where systematic racism was rampant in some parts of the country, African-Americans were still better off in some ways.
Welp you just lost what little credibility you had
>>1098410
Have fun in Vietnam!
>>1098704
>blacks were now allowed to buy into white communities
Say no more
The whole nostalgia images of America during the 50s and 60s was a veil for the fact that it was all bullshit. Sure people had more money than they did during the depression, but in the end they still had all the social problems we have now, often even worse on fronts like civil rights. But the 60s sucked too, the only good era was the 70s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kODOHodMqck
>>1098410
The world just wasn't ready for American freedom, yet.
>>1098410
It was still shitty to be a black person or other social minority in the 60s.
>>1098509
>Also ironic in the fact that despite African-Americans faced open discrimination in the South, they didn't suffer from many of the social issues effecting them today.
Indeed, prior to the LBJ’s “Great Society”, Black-American society was at its zenith and was a flourishing culture where dad had a job and married mom, they had a house or apartment, the kids went to school, crime rates, out of wedlock births, drug use, etc. were more or less on par with White rates and so on.
All of which went down the toilet in the late 1960s…
>>1107282
Fucking lol
>>1103762
> Not at all. US Counter-cultures came out of working class communities at the lower ends of the skill orders.
Nonsense, all revolutions get their start with the bourgeoisie middle class, as the working class is too poor and uneducated do it and of course the upper class doesn’t want any change.
Poor people couldn’t afford to let their kids fuck around in college for four years, then bum around for a decade after, getting high at Woodstock and slumming around Haight Ashbury as smelly hippies.
>>1107287
Laugh all you want but the fact is that prior to the 1960s, Black-American society wasn’t much different then White American society, with the exception of lower Black income levels.
It was literally a chocolate colored Leave It To Beaver society.
>>1098509
Jesus fuck people.
"African Americans" make up 12% of the population.
Considerably less, in the 50's.
If America has gone to shit, it ain't the fault of the niggers. Yes, they make up 50% of the crime rate, or what not, but 90% of that happens in the goddamned ghetto, so, unless you live there, it don't mean shit to you.
If you want to point to something that radically changed America, economically and culturally, how about something that directly affects ~50% instead of just ~12% of the population? Like Women's Lib doubling the size of the workforce in just over a decade!?
But, short of making America a Caliphate, nothing that is at all likely to happen will undo that - so there's not much point in crying over spilled milk. It's just a matter of finding a way to adjust to the new reality.
(And no, Trump ain't gonna fix it.)
>>1107282
Yeah, but it is not only the African Americans that are having problems. It is general.
>>1098727
>shit tier /pol/ meme
>shit tier /pol/ meme
>shit tier /pol/ meme
>shit tier /pol/ meme
>shit tier /pol/ meme
>The cold war didn't happen
>No country was fucked cause of communist vs capitalist shills
>No cultures were killed by Rambo movies and Marxist books
>>1107321
Actually, more blacks were more upwardly mobile in the 60's than in any time in the century. Indeed, there was much panic over the "deluge of niggers" entering various previously white-exclusive neighborhoods. Yes, the ghetto got more violent (as drugs became illegal), but marginally, compared to what was to follow.
It wasn't until the 70's, when rap and hiphop were introduced to the population and those African-Americans seeking to better themselves through higher education started to be seen as race traitors who weren't "keeping it real", as a result, that whole generations of black folk got sucked into the ghetto wars, never to return, and the violence and fatherlessness reached the extremes we see today.
Not that, perhaps as a result of having no family fortunes or educations to build on, that the majority of black folks weren't always poor and living in ghettos. But the brief moment of light for them came in the 60's, not the 50's - and it was snuffed out, just as quickly.
>>1107323
Ghetto Gangster Culture and criminal rationalization expanded like a cancer all through out North and South America (by the hand of USA Media) and has brought us a world in which streets no longer belong to citizens but to hood rats who go in and out of prison regularly and dont afraid of nothing
This is the main cause of people's stress today, youth gangs terrorizing the cities with a level of violence rivalling the clockwork orange
>>1107323
> Yes, they make up 50% of the crime rate, or what not, but 90% of that happens in the goddamned ghetto, so, unless you live there, it don't mean shit to you.
It matters to me because they’re fellow Americans and the utter collapse of post-1960s Black-American society drags down the entire country.
50% of all murders committed by Blacks
70% Blacks kids born to unwed mothers
50% of Black males in prison, parole or probation
Barely 50% of Black kids graduate high school
etc.
Cost us all and NONE of the above was the case in Black-American society prior to the 1960s, when I may point out, Blacks actually had it hard in the U.S. and lived in a de facto apartheid country.
The Civil Rights Movement and LBJ’s “Great Society” only benefited a few Blacks like Oprah Winfrey, Michael Jordan, Barack Obama but for the vast majority of Black-Americans, it has been a disaster.
>>1107355
Maybe in a black majority city like Chicago, but near everywhere else, the vast majority of nigger crime is restricted to the nigger hoods.
And doubling the size of the workforce did considerably more than "add stress" - it introduced an entirely new economic reality. One where one man could no longer afford to support a family, and no child would have the support of their parents for the majority of their childhood, seeing more strangers than family.
Niggers, literally, dindunuffin, set next to that.
>>1107367
There's lies, damn lies, and statistics - and the last don't mean anything to your average American. If 100% of all murders, unwed mothers, murders, and inmates, were black, it wouldn't mean a thing to the remainder of the population, if the bulk of those were happening in black neighborhoods, and said population only made up 12% of the total.
If anything, they've helped. They've given a huge swath of the population something to blame all their ills on. Not that they weren't doing that before.
Granted, that'd be a lot more helpful if it didn't also cause them to ignore the real problems.
>>1107367
>blaming the Civil Rights Act and not the drug epidemics and sexual revolution that started in the 60s
Shit tier sociology, fampai.
>>1107282
You're so dumb that it hurts.
>>1105633
The 1950 census literally shows it was 90% white (87.5% Non-Hispanic White)
>>1107282
>Black-American society was at its zenith and was a flourishing culture where dad had a job and married mom, they had a house or apartment, the kids went to school, crime rates, out of wedlock births, drug use, etc.
wow, these liberals spooks.
>>1107667
>1950 census
>Non-Hispanic White
U wut?
You're more or less right, even under guesstimating a bit... I say guesstimating, as that's either a guess or propaganda quote, for they didn't make those distinctions back then, and anyone was white if they considered themselves so. No doubt nearly every colored and latino who could pass for white, called himself such come the census.
>>1108823
>Everything I disagree with is liberal
While it's patently wrong, do you not think the "pseudo-liberal" stereotype the board ascribes to would hold the position that the blacks were nothing but miserable under the thumb of the oppressive white man, save back in ancient times when they was kangs? But yes, while that view is just as wrong, the vast majority of blacks were destitute up until the late 60's (oddly), when they started entering higher education en masse, and then you see that same improvement undo itself by the late 70's. However, both by number and by percentage of their population, there are more upper and upper-middle class blacks than there have ever been before in this nation's history, even if the majority are still poor.
>>1098509
>Post WWII U.S. is probably the most prosperous era of any nation in history up until some time in the 70s
How
>>1109401
The wikipedia page for Historical Racial and Ethnic Demographics of the US lists the NHW population in 1950 as 131,805,405 (87.5%) with
Gratton, Brian; Gutmann, Myron (January 2006) [2006], Historical Statistics of the United States: Millennial Edition 1 (First ed.), Cambridge University Press, pp. 1–177 to 1–179.
As the source
>>1109444
Wonder what their source is - as it ain't the census.
>>1109444
That number does match up with either of the measurements the census used, and the term "non-white hispanic" did not exist. Hell, the term "hispanic" didn't even exist - they just lopped everyone into white and not white. Those were the only two check boxes you got.
http://www2.census.gov/prod2/decennial/documents/1950/proceduralHistory/1950proceduralhistory.zip
>>1098509
Agree with first sentence... Agree with second sentence...
Third sentence, in addition to being pure /pol/, neglects the fact that most black men were not working class, and those that were, had shit jobs, as the racism you claim didn't exist actually prevented them both from working with whites, and from earning equal pay, in those rare instances when they did. They really and truly were second class citizens.
Fourth sentence neglects the fact that they were dealing with many of the same social issues (such as drugs, crimes, and even gangs), in addition to others they no longer suffer from (ie. the above segregation).
...and like most of this thread, it ignores the fact that, unlike today, you could count the number of upper-class blacks on one hand, and even among those few, there was next to nothing to show for it. There was pretty much zero upward mobility among the blacks in the US from shortly after emancipation, and straight up until the 60's.
...and the fact that both the post and the thread ignores that what the niggers went through has almost nothing to do with any of the major and transformative economic changes that happened between the late 50's and early 70's, that forever warped the face of the nation for the remaining 88% of the population.
Niggers suck, but they are the least of our problems - and more of a symptom of the disease than the disease itself.
Ww2 killed off western male role models, allowing the insidious influence of the untermensch to infiltrate households
>>1109413
By using subversive socialist economics and politics and having big government. The stock market wasn't worth investing in until 30 years after the Depression. Those evil commies trying to buy us by giving us good comsumer products and a decent standard of living!
>>1110149
>Ww2 killed off western male role models,
it always was a fantasy. In reality, men are meant to serve women, like it always was meant to
>>1098509
>Post WWII U.S. is probably the most prosperous era of any nation in history up until some time in the 70s
British Empire in the 1800s had a quarter of the world's wealth flowing through the homeland specifically. Maybe more.
US still has a long way to go before it reaches that kind of profusion.
>>1101122
Carter and Ford did that too.
>>1098410
>the 50s, the pinnacle decade of Western civilisation?
Only communists hate the 1950s.
Just a reminder that you will NEVER:
>leave the door of your house locked again at night
>have a strong community and friendly relationships with your neighbors and extended family
>have a faithful and loyal wife, and respectful kids
>live in a socially cohesive city where everyone knows each and take care of each other
>easily find a job that can you can hold for your entire life and even when it's just a typical working-class job manages to fund your entire family
And the greatest reason you don't have this anymore is because COMMUNISTS and JEWS decided that to bring a revolution to the United States, first you had to completely dismantle intermediary corps of society between the individual and the state, such as voluntary associations and the family, so that the individual was left alone in the face of a centralized state that could easily be infiltrated by communist intellectuals and turned into a totalitarian communist dictatorship, as it has happened in the last 20 years.
The other reason is that the conservative movement, who was supposed to prevent this development from ever happening, willing turnet itself into cuckolds in the face of the culturaly hegemonical Gramscian left, and even purged it's only mass movement of note, the based JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY, who was never wrong about anything during the entirety of it's history.
>>1112311
>the based JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY, who was never wrong about anything during the entirety of it's history.
lol
>>1105718
Not if you look into it deeply.
The old world in Fallout is messed up. Play the New Vegas DLCs for some examples.
>>1100615
I know this was from a couple days back, but are Europeans really triggered by people restoring old cars? That's so weird
>>1112311
>>leave the door of your house locked again at night
blame the right
>>have a strong community and friendly relationships with your neighbors and extended family
blame the right
>>have a faithful and loyal wife, and respectful kids
blame the right
>>live in a socially cohesive city where everyone knows each and take care of each other
blame the right
>>easily find a job that can you can hold for your entire life and even when it's just a typical working-class job manages to fund your entire family
finally, blame the right
>>1113636
The last one makes sense sort of, but how the fuck are the first four the fault of conservative movements again?
>>1107355
/pol/tards really are a superstitious lot
>>1107367
I'd blame the escalation of the Drug War and deindustrialization
>>1105702
Yes it indeed is.
Racist society > violent criminal society, any day of the week and twice on sunday.
>>1107330
I wouldnt call it a problem. Young people just like to cohabitate more. Its not like the birthrate has gone up.
>>1113640
I was mostly meming, but if you want a serious answer then the conservative obsession with individualism, paranoia over government spending and disdain for the poor play a large part for the first four.
I think they had a big part to play in creating the current situation where most Americans seem to hold each other in utter contempt. The left also had it's part to play of course especially in academia, but since Reagan leftism has been an all but insignificant part of American policy, leaving aside meme topics like gay marriage or legalised marijuana. All American politicians these days are just different shades of neoliberal, and though it's probably not the type of traditionalist right the original guy was talking about, neoliberalism is still part of the right wing.
>>1112311
heh, nothing personnel kid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AylFqdxRMwE
>>1113676
Neoliberalism is a buzzword, neoliberal movement or school of thought has never existed. It's literally just a leftist strawman.
What you probably mean are the neocons, who definitely exist. They're ex-Democrats who switched parties in the mid to late 70s and brought their Democrat bullshit with them.
>>1113669
>legal violence is better than illegal violence
great insight
>>1113697
>racism = violence
Yes because having a designated section on the bus is the same as murder.
>>1113676
[citation needed] please
>>1112249
The US in 1946 made up 50% of the world's GDP.
>>1098480
because niggers deserve no rights
>>1098410
Drafting into the Vietnam War. Young people who have grown up in post-war prosperity were being forced to fight a hellish war on the other side of the planet. It obviously didn't sit well.
>>1113822
That's just an asspull. Korean war didn't have that sort of effect.
>>1113687
There is no group that self-identifies as neoliberals, but that doesn't mean the term is complete bullshit. There has been a significant shift since the Thatcher/Reagan era from Keynsian policy to economic policies influenced by guys like Friedman.
There is no politician who calls themselves a neoliberal because they don't really have to, it has been the dominant ideology (at least here in europe) for quite some time now.
All state services have been 'privatized', be it in tightly controlled markets, government spending is no longer used to try to control economic crises, instead fiddling with interest rates has become the way to go.
>>1113828
The Korean War happened one generation earlier. It was also very short. The actual operations lasted for only a year or so.
>>1113636
>Blame "the right"
How about we blame woodrow wilshit, FDR, LBJ, and Regan.
>>1114478
desu i just blame america as a whole. partisan shitflinging is so tiresome
>>1113938
>government spending is no longer used to try to control economic crises, instead fiddling with interest rates has become the way to go.
This would have come to be even without the rise of neo-liberalism. The fact of the matter is any government that wishes to spend money without becoming insolvent must eventually pass taxes or reduced spending in order to pay back the debt incurred when stimulating the economy. This necessitates a decision on the part of the politician which is naturally anathema to them. It was natural that governments would eventually take the easy out and outsource controlling the economy to Banks.
>>1113971
>The actual operations lasted for only a year or so.
Is this just an 'Ignorance About the Korean War General'
>>1113687
>When the ideology is so ideological, it doesn't think it's an ideology.
