ITT: Bad history
Post examples of some bad historians or bad history and explain why they are bad.
>>10942
>tfw, my history teacher likes this guy and want's us to remember every Chinese dynasty leading to the current ruler
>tfw the class is an ancient - 1750 history class.
>>11043
>ancient - 1750
Fucking how?
Is it just China? How can they give you anything more than a brief overview of each era per lecture?
>>10942
DUDE MONGOLS LMAO
>>10942
/his/
4chan talking history
This is going to be a bigger source of disinformation than /fit/ with its SS.
>>11308
Give it a bit of time
>>10942
John Green is bad because he attempts to lace his lessons with humor and is not a conservative, racist Eurocentrist like epic 4chan. He also erroneously acknowledges the role of women, half the human race, to history. Everyone knows that it's Great MEN
>>10942
All the "Politically incorrect history of X" books.
>>11308
Only anything involving Germany, the holocaust, WW2, or post-WW2 America
>>11401
Shit sux. The only history teacher I had that was decent was my sophomore year world history teacher.
>>11419
Germany didn't happen
WW2 is degenerate
America did nothing wrong
>>11308
Two weeks: shitposters gone, they got bored and fucked off
One month: disingenuous /pol/tards gone, they got bored and went to go see the next happening
Two months: board traffic slows to a pace similar to /ck/ or /lit/ and discussion becomes decent
Give it some time anon, things will even out
>>10942
Because he is a tard who ''this is what my liberal arts teacher told me what happened to check your privilege''
>>11419
So /his/ in a months time when the mods and janitors tire from cleaning the place up 24/7.
Mark my words, this place is going to be exclusively "best philosopher" threads combined with "WW2/German/Wehrmacht/Holocaust" threads unless the jans and mods stay on top of their game.
>>11308
As long as we have people sniff it out and correct it, shouldn't be unmanageable.
>>11562
I honestly hope so
>>11549
I don't have a reaction image appropriate for how mad I am right now.
>>11491
iktfb, my best history teacher was a american history and modern european history, and was absolutely stifled by the curriculum requirements. She gave up on the AP requirements because they were so bad and just made her own course structure for it, and I learned more in that course than the rest of my high school ones.
>>11562
>Two months: board traffic slows to a pace similar to /ck/ or /lit/ and discussion becomes decent
/lit/ is plagued with /r9k/ and /pol/ and has been for the last year.
It's discussion is shit-tier.
>CTRL F
>Niall Ferguson
>0 Results
How? He's literally a right wing shill who knows nothing about what he writes and appeals to armchair conservatives by saying what they want to hear with no real support
His books are worthless and essentially devolve into Europe and America are great and capitalism is the end of history
>>11376
Go back to tumblr before I hang you
https://duhalde.bandcamp.com/track/la-historia-la-escribe-felipe-pinga-parte-i
this fucking guy
>>11562
have you been to /ck/ lately? it's fallen to shitposters hard, I have no idea what happened to it
>>11234
He doesn't really teach, He just gives us readings, talks about how to do a test, and then tests us on them. (this video was actually the most info we've had in class)
And the Class isn't on china, but the guy lived in china and has a huge bias towards it. Last Wednesday of our hour long class, he spent 20 minutes trying to teach our class the order of dynastys and leaders to 2015 china today. (it's gonna be on our final as well)
![Peopleshistoryzinn[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/h70ikhh.jpg "Peopleshistoryzinn[1].jpg")
This book desu.
It's basically like protesting the bias of Fox News by watching MSNBC. Totally black and white/ heroes and villains narrative with no citations or bibliography and says nothing new that educated people don't already know.
>Lel Christians cause dark ages we would be in space by now if they didn't burn books
Yeah because Christians weren't the ones opening school and Charlemagne was encouraging the spread of knowledge and just so you know nobody in any academic circle calls it the "dark ages" anymore.
Yes that makes me legitimate mad that people honestly don't respect history enough to look shit up and just rely on lel family guy
![c3559c7975823569c43c8f11317ac50f[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/tbiYkaF.png "c3559c7975823569c43c8f11317ac50f[1].png")
No explanation needed.
>>10942
>talking about china
>one sentence about how great the ussr was for industry
>it killed 1749229286492 gorrilions though so lets not talk about it
>>10942
But is he actually wrong?
>>11799
>that Eric Foner
Fuck that bastard. I hate him and his love for safe, textbook version of history accurate or not. Of course he's mainly in love with Lincoln.
>>11812
Pretty much every peroid, because around 1500 bc I think, the Indo-Europeans pretty much run everything that is worth talking about.
>>11862
Please give one anyways. I haven't read it before.
>>11952
It won the Pulitzer prize
>>11693
/ck/'s pretty alright in my opinion, though that's probably because I browse it less than /toy/.
>>11659
Isn't he a good economic historian though? I don't trust his 'world history' stuff though.
>>11952
anon is just mad because white supremacy got btfo
>>11923
Eric Foner is a credible historian that has conducted legitimate research, though. His " Free Soil, Free Labor, Free Men" is an essential work on the ideology of the early Republican Party. Also, his textbooks are solid for the most part. Much better than any others that I've seen.
>>11971
At least they try.
>>11862
I've never actually seen a good criticism of this book.
>>11971
>/pol/ is having a problem with Egyptian threads.
That doesn't really matter though. Afrocentrism is /his/ related.
Anyone familiat with the subject. Basically, it was a very influential book in the late 70s. Horribly biased and and in almost every new book about the subject you can find references to the author and how he "doesn't cite his sources" or that "X has denied this" over and over. And then there are the stories about his rants. Basically he has a huge hateboner for the British Empire and he needed someone like Scott to let it all out. How many history books were written by hacks with an agenda? It's a scary thought.
>>11549
Absolutely disgusting.
>>12077
Afrocentrism is about race, not history. Don't try to pretend otherwise. It's /pol/ shit.
>>12060
It's essentially environmental determinism that ignores the role of culture in societal developments.
>>11549
#justgirlythingz
>>10942
Can anyone show me an example in one of this videos where he does a bad job? Because I've heard nothing but le tumblr memes about him, instead of actual thoughtful critique.
>>12128
>false dichotomy
It's about both you faggot. All history revisionism is relevant to /his/.
>>11549
#TRENCHFOOT!
>>11983
So did Walter Duranty, it doesn't mean much.
Had my retard tier frat film major roommate try arguing for the historical accuracy of braveheart against me earlier, I couldn't take it seriously.
>>12199
I only know about Alexander "the Great" thing. I don't watch his videos. I want to watch good videos about history not something to make me angry.
He also made a video about conservatism. I wonder what he said about it.
>>11308
>SS is a meme
Ask me how I know you don't lift
>>11993
His uncle was a big source for Zinn though
>>12060
North America was rich in resources yet the native americans here were still ass backwards when Europeans arrived.
Why? Simple. They are genetically dumber.
>>12152
Not really. The main goal of the book seems to be about explaining why Eurasia came ahead of Africa, the Americas, and the rest of the world in terms of civilization, and that has to do with geography and environment more than anything.
If it was about why Europe came ahead of Asia, then you could talk about culture and institutions, but it's not.
Environment doesn't decide anything, but you can't just ignore it either. The fact is, sometimes environment does determine history. There's no way around that.
>>11234
Welcome to American education.
Now spend the same period of time just learning about your BORING ASS STATE in the union.
>>12199
Well there's his Alexander the Great video where he says he's wasn't really a great man and was on par with Kim Kardashian. Then there's his Crusades video which is nothing but Europeans were evil Muslims were good. His video on the founding of America is pretty bad with tons of time spent focusing on the Founding fathers being slave owners and saying they were hypocrites rather than focusing on their goals and intentions
>>12339
>Say I'm a History major
>People look at me in disgust
I'm less likely to get a job than a communications or art major.
>>11414
Nope. Now go back to tumblr, [S]ocial [J]ustice [W]arrior.
>>11376
Most women literally did almost nothing for most of history because they weren't allowed to. That doesn't make it ok. But its still true.
>>12383
>yet the native americans here were still ass backwards when Europeans arrived
What do you mean by "ass backwards"?
Also, have you read Charles C. Mann's 1491, by any chance?
>>12347
Eric Foner is also a better historian than his uncle. Although he has declined in recent decades.
>>12383
>genetically dumber
It's because Europe fought a lot more, which led to more technological advances.
>>12450
It's because STEM majors look at communications and humanities the same way, since they're looking down anyways. Communications and art majors tend to have better social networks, which leads them to support each other.
I still think the order is STEM > humanities > communications/art. At least you actually had to learn something that is important to the well-being of society.
>>11549
Sometimes I actually want to die.
>>12199
His videos are full of minor inaccuracies. I haven't watched many because I can't deal with lack of attention to detail when speaking authoritatively on history. One of his videos on Rome he was talking about Cicinnatus, and he had a famous painting of Cincinnatus pop up, but he'd circled the wrong guy. I couldn't really watch any more after that, even the most cursory examination of that image should have made it clear who Cincinnatus was but he couldn't even bothered doing that tiny amount of his own research.
He also boils extremely complex topics, like why Rome fell and over how long, down to statements like "letting Germans into the army was a terrible idea", as if it was really an option. He doesn't really know this stuff, he's just rehashing broad arguments he has done 0 research on.
And then there's his crap about how the Mongols were really progressive and pro-women, and his general anachronistic "ancient peoples should have treated women better" crap.
His videos aren't that bad if you want broad *opinions*, but they are poorly research, highly anachronistic, and basically just bad history.
>>12572
They were severely technologically limited. They had no infastructure, no science, etc.
>>12199
His Alexander the Great video is a pure hit-piece. He makes massive generalizations one after the other so quickly that the viewer can't process his bullshit and just takes it or tunes out. He doesn't take time to back up a single thing he says, he just vomits opinions all over you with virtually no analysis.
>>12543
Try arguing that to normal people. They just look at you like you're an insane evil Nazi/KKK member
>>11549
>>11308
I got my bench to 225 5x5 and DL to 405 in like 6 months of SS/SL. Best program ever.
>>12583
>it's because they fought more
Now you're just moving the goalposts.
Why is it so hard to accept that races can differ in terms of intelligence?
>>12199
His video on the israel-palestine thing actively ignores bits of information that dont quite fit his political agenda (left wing american being the claim here)
In particular he paints the notion that everyone got along till the british showed up (they didn't), and that somehow, even though everyone got along england decided to split it up after asking the UN (both sides demanded overlapping portions of the territory and wouldn't settle for less so the UN suggested the division). He also skims the issues that the Palestinians raised involving the mass Jewish migration into the region.
He then decides to tone down exactly what certain israeli political parties did (no talk about massacring villages here) along with only making passing references to what Palestine was up to.
It's been a while, but I believe he also skipped bringing up exactly what the death tolls were from either side, or discussing america's involvement in the funding side of things at all. He also provides an extraordinarily poor description of the various egypt-israeli wars or the USS liberty incident.
>>12446
>Then there's his Crusades video which is nothing but Europeans were evil Muslims were good.
When does he ever say this
>>12383
Yup. This level of stupid is exactly what I expected to see when /his/ was announced.
>>12698
>I'm moving the goalposts
How? The point of this argument is "What is the technological difference between the Old and New worlds due to?" I say it's because of geographical differences, you say it's biological differences.
>>12400
You pretty much said what he said.
Before reading the book, I assumed much of the reason Eurasia was more developed was because of culture and constant warfare.
My criticism of him is that he argues culture, genetics, and great people have nothing to do with how civilization developed. I argue that they do.
I don't think humans are just a bunch of creatures that if given different circumstances act based upon them. I believe there is some universal instinct that makes people human, and controls us.
>>12795
Nice retort fucktard.
North America had a lot of natural resources to be exploited, a ton of arable land and edible crops. Yet the natives still huddled in tents, worshipped animals.
Stop pretending races do not differ genetically in terms of intelligence.
>>12625
>They had no infastructure
Blatantly untrue, even if your knowledge of Native Americans is generations out of date it's still common knowledge that the Inca had elaborate road systems.
I would highly recommend the book I mentioned btw, Mann discusses these misconceptions about Native Americans far better than I ever could.
>>12639
>What's wrong with this book?
Everything you need to know was in the post you replied to. It's a simplistic leftist fairy tale rendering of American history, in the same way "The Patriot's Guide to American History" is a simplistic fairy tale narrative for the right. There's a reason why actual historians never quote Zinn's work.
>>10942
>Hi I'm John Greene, today I'm going to talk to you about how FANTASTIC and AMAZING and INSPIRING the Haitian revolution was
>cough cough Haiti used to be the richest colony in the western hemisphere, not it is the poorest country in the western hemisphere
Oh you poor liberal brainwashed sack of shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5A_o-nU5s2U
>>12383
>Why?
>Simple
That's almost always the wrong answer to that question.
>>12383
>Why? Simple
That's pretty typical. /pol/fags just can't stand when an explanation for something might actually require thinking about the topic for more than ten minutes, so they just jump to the simplest conclusion.
>>12870
Only a few native societies had infrastructure most were living in the stone age when the Europeans arrived
>>12870
The Indians in North American also had cities if I remember. Especially in the Mid-West.
>>11799
>not capitalizing the authors name
Disgusting.
>>12868
>have enough food
>have enough land
>content with life
>no reason to advance technology
The reason why Europe had better technology is because they were busy fighting for resources.
>>12870
>inca road system
Which was far less technologically advanced and its quality was leagues worse than any European or Chinese road.
Let me guess it's because of geographics, right?
>>10942
Anyone who claims the world was technologically set back hundreds of years because the library of Alexandria burnt down, almost as dumb as that stupid chart. The biggest issue is that one cannot simply just determine or quantify "technological advancement" like that, and it makes too many assumptions on what exactly the library contained. It was a big loss, but to say we would have been colonizing the stars had the library not been destroyed is horseshit.
>>12890
Even by liberal professor had to begrudgingly admit that the Hatian Revolution was a violent mess and that both sides did horrible things to each other
>>12795
Well, he may or may not be wrong.
But some humans are genetically dumber than others.
Some genes can be turned off and on based upon what is most needed for the body.
Take an African child, put him in a white rich American family, and you still get a man who is less smart than the white son.
I don't think that's a basis for racism, since the difference is so minute in the modern day, but there is some truth to different races being different.
>>12383
>He has no idea what Spanish conquistadors wrote when they gazed upon the glories of the inca for the first time
>>11549
>>11799
Many liberal arts and soft sciences have become dominated by people with political agendas. History isn't as bad but its a trend I wish we could purge.
>>13050
Honestly the only thing wrong with burning the library down is that there wasn't even a chance for some of those books to make it to our generation and we lost a lot of knowledge about the time, I never even knew people tried to say that the Library would progress humanity
>>13024
>natives never warred with themselves pre-columbus
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/thanksgiving-guilt-trip-how-warlike-were-native-americans-before-europeans-showed-up/
Sure man. It's all the environment. Kek
>>13045
Literally untrue. They built fucking roads through the Andes. Their architecture is still used today in foundations in Peru. Their agricultural system was better than anywhere in europe until the petrochemical revolution. Their society was immense and complex and when Pizarro had Atahualpa killed, Charles V was furious because it was so clear that he was the god granted king of a high civilization.
>>12890
Theres a lot wrong with that video but your criticism is bullshit.
Haiti was the richest colony in the americas if you only take into account the tiny minority of people who owned the sugar plantations.
Everyone else was poor as shit and haiti actually had the lowest average lifespan of pretty much anywhere on the planet at the time.
The real problem with johns video is that ironically enough he whitewashes the massacre of whites that followed the revolution.
>>13059
Like in every revolution as Mao said. I hope this fucker didn't make a video about the Cuban revolutions (from the 19th century) and the Spanish-American War. That's my specialty. It may be too painful.
>>13088
I usually love any chance to ridicule /pol/, but I'm pretty sure this is a false flag.
>>12984
Based Hopewell
>>11549
What the fuck is this shit
This is just disrespectful
>>13168
>History isn't as bad
Anon...
My first two history courses in college were indistinguishable from an intersectional feminism course.
An increasing amount of new historical literature is the same.
>>12128
If it's a race motivated attempt to rewrite history, isn't it still /his/ related?
>>13211
You're pretty much the only person saying it was only the environment. To say it was only any one thing is pretty naive.
>>13024
not the guy you were arguing with but mesoamerica had literally been in a near constant state of war for centuries in 1491, the aztec religion even had a justification for unending warfare fundamentally built into it.
The question of why the central and south american civilizations never developed things like ironworking or domesticated animals has always been a big head scratcher to me. I think much of it comes from their isolation relative to eurasian civilizations which were able to spread ideas through trade. Note that sub saharan civilizations which were also relatively isolated developed at a slower rate as well.
>>13045
Conquest of the Incas
http://bookzz.org/book/1241273/455759
Why not read a book, and not get your history from lulzworthy /pol/ posts
>>13313
They were far more advanced in Agriculture and Astronomy
>>12971
They had agriculture, even invented maize. They were categorically not "stone age" peoples.
>>13045
The Inca roadways were designed for use by men and llamas. European horses didn't do well on them which is part of where your perceptions comes from. In spite of that perception their roads are still around today.
And these are the Andes Mountains we're talking about, about 7000km above sea level. I don't sea how geography isn't relevant.
>>11308
The further back in time the less cancer is my prediction
>>13313
>domesticated animals
They didn't have anything to domesticate.
Ironworking is more confusing, especially considering they were excellent with bronze in the Andes. Then again, Eurasia went 2000 years using bronze before they figured out iron, so it's not like it was the most obvious thing in the world.
>>13230
my conventional wisdom of the spanish american war is that at a period of intense nationalism the US government seized on a convenient opportunity to make a bald faced landgrab at the spanish. Would you dispute this?
Did you know that the holocaust didn't happen?
>>11549
>american education
My criticism of GGS.
Jared's argument: Eurasia has four geographics advantages.
1. Grains.
2. River valleys
3. Lots of penisulas
4. Variety of large animals
5. Trade advantage because East-West is easier than North-South movement.
My response
Maybe this explains the initial differences 10000 bc - 500 bc, but it breaks down immensely the closer you get to 1492. What explains the last 500 years of history? This is arguably the most important time because the ability to significantly change history became so much easier.
What explains China and India post 1300? What explains the Incas and Aztecs being rather advanced while not taming llamas or alpacas?
Meiji Japan is proof that a nation can go from completely backwards to rather modern in 20-30 years. If Geography created these barriers, how come these barriers remain even today? There has to be more.
>>12890
>hatian revolution video
Holy shit is this nigger for real?
>literally no mention of white massacre
>calls it the most successful slave revolt
>blah blah haiti is great because it helped those in need
fucking mad
>>10942
African American history about Africa
>>13223
>Haiti was the richest colony in the americas if you only take into account the tiny minority of people who owned the sugar plantations.
No, Haiti was the richest colony in the Western Hemisphere based on production of raw materials and economy you stupid fuck. Do you literally think European imperialism was constructed around >muh feelz ?
>Everyone else was poor as shit and haiti actually had the lowest average lifespan of pretty much anywhere on the planet at the time.
Actually the slaves in Haiti lived longer on average than southern saharan african hunter gatherer tribes, who were constantly enslaved and killed by other africans at young ages
>The real problem with johns video is that ironically enough he whitewashes the massacre of whites that followed the revolution.
The real problem with the video is that he paints the Haitian revolution as a great achievement when it was in fact the violent extermination of Frenchmen followed by the total collapse of the economy and the country. This was followed by a deterioration in life expectancy and quality of life to well below the levels the slaves had. The Haitian revolution is a perfect example of how NOT to have a revolution and John repeatedly tries to create a narrative where this isn't the case. To do this he has to leave out large swaths of Haitian history. He has a clear agenda and in this video that agenda is easily seen.
>>12152
Culture comes from the geography.
Like how Nippon had its culture from so much isolation.
>>11549
BOOTS BOOTS MOVING UP AND DOWN #THENIGHTMARESWONTSTOP #TRENCHFOOT
>>13501
how do you know its american?
>>12698
>Why is it so hard to accept that races can differ in terms of intelligence?
Because decades of research and study have proved that worldview on par with flat-earth theory
>Go ahead, tell me teh joos control all the studies and it's a giant conspiracy to cover up the truth
>>13453
Basically most Cubans weren't loyal to any side. Pro-Spanish or pro-independence. They just wanted to be left alone. Garcia and Gomez were also ruthless bastards.
People like TR and Cabot Lodge were of course really interested in Cuba (the US had been interested in it since its inception). Not just because of the prospect of more land. They wanted war. They both missed the American Civil War (Roosevelt's father also missed it).
>>13511
Shit sorry.
5 advantages.
They did tame llamas and alpacas but they never used them extensively for agriculture. Odd, right?
>>13610
>Because decades of research and study have proved that worldview on par with flat-earth theory
Hardly.
http://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/Rushton-Jensen30years.pdf
Transrracial adoption studies prove it as well.
Sorry. There is a real genetic difference of iq between the races. Gould was wrong as usual.
>>13511
I do think its an interesting idea that countries with large east-west sprawl are easier to develop than north-south sprawl because they generally have a fewer number of climates
not saying its the whole story but I think there's something to it, note the uneven development in Mexico where the milder climates of the north and center are doing much better than the yucatan and south-west where development has always been a problem
>>13609
It's from catalyst prep, an American SAT preparation course.
>>13610
Since 1970 you're right.
Before that many studies showed a difference.
For example the Minnesota adoption study from the 60's-70's.
>>10942
Charlotte Brindley because at the end of the quiz she created, I was rewarded me with a picture of Alexander the Great.
>>13793
But the racists clearly manipulated those studies.
>>12199
His video on ancient Romans he gets a lot of stuff wrong. Purely factual stuff like Republican offices and such
>>13610
>Go ahead, tell me teh joos control all the studies and it's a giant conspiracy to cover up the truth
Trying to convince any university to accept a PhD thesis on the genetic basis of racial intelligence would be like trying to prove Marx was right in the economics department of the University of Chicago
It's less "race has been debunked, case closed" so much as "you're a racist shitlord for even contemplating the existence of inherent racial differences"
>>13756
>case studies
g8 b8 m8 i r8 8/8
It's a book about the post-war period in Europe that ignores it's most important ideology, Christian democracy, because the author didn't had any friends who took part on it.
>>11549
>>13767
Well. There's a giant desert about 10 miles from a temperate rainforest in California. Same for the Gobi in Asia.
The latitude v longitude argument falls short when you search for counterexamples.
The east cost of Africa is rather livable. Always has been.
In Zanzibar the arabians brought tons of knowledge for 2000 years to the area, yet the native Africans remained tribal.
Did people just decide to stop making boats in North America and South America?
With the exception of a few people like Karl Polanyi, most Marxist historians are terrible because they are more interested in fitting the facts within their ideology than anything else.
>>13478
>>13494
I laughed
>>13885
>no retort
pls go and stay go
All those studies are rayciss.
>implyong the black white iq gap isn't the lowest during childhood when environment is more important
>implying the gap doesnt greatly increase during adulthood when genetics start playing a bigger role
>implying mixed race blacks don't score than regular blacks
>>12624
This. When it comes to history the details are important even if many pretend they aren't
>>13885
Tbh shitpost response senpai
>>13967
Fine, I'll take your bait then.
Case studies are worthless for anything. They are individual stories, each of which has its own biases. Even if you can find a correlation, that doesn't mean the cause you propose explains it.
>>11971
/pol/ has a 'problem' for everything, they shouldn't fucking ban you for posting something like that.
>>10942
Everything about the Holocaust is a lie.
There are plenty of youtube vids explaining why.
Hitler didn't do anything wrong. He was a good man. He cared about his people. But a lot of hostile forces wanted Hitler's money for their political activities. That's why he was so hated.
Hitler was the bravest of all men.
>>10942
Howard Zinn.
>>10942
My history teacher used to say that Hiroshima and Nagasaki (I'm not talking about names of our new leader) were filled with evil japs armed to the teeth with barely any women and children in them
>>13948
>Did people just decide to stop making boats in North America and South America?
the Caribbean was widely inhabited by Taino and Carrib peoples
>>13869
Gotta love Lewontins fallacy tbqh
>>13904
This one is probably better.
>>13251
>tfw you will never be a comfy Mississippian living in the great city of Cahokia
>tfw you will never share it with 40,000 other noble Mississippians
>tfw you will never wake up early, woken by the sound of the coppersmith working in the smithery, and step out of your home to look out across the Mississippi river as the morning mist slides across the water like a cloud-that-walks
>tfw you will never smell something delicious and find your tama (wife) cooking a morning meal of hot sweet potatoes, corn, beans and meat
>tfw you will never eat a hearty breakfast with your family and then take your son down to the river to catch lunch together
JDIMSA
This hack.
>>14083
>There are plenty of youtube videos explaining why
Because youtube videos are known for their well-researched points and nuanced explanations.
>>14109
I like Zinn, he was the first person I read when I was in 9th grade that taught me that maybe Columbus wasn't such a great guy after all.
>>13547
>Haiti was the richest colony in the Western Hemisphere based on production of raw materials and economy
Using this logic equatorial guinea is one of the richest countries in the world.
Yeah it might have a high GDP per capita but absolutely no one who lives there benefits from it.
>slaves in Haiti lived longer on average than southern saharan african hunter gatherer tribes
Cite your source.
I had a hard time believing subsaharan africans had a lower lower life expectancy than 7 years which the life expectancy of a slave once they arrived on haiti
http://lanic.utexas.edu/project/etext/llilas/outreach/brazil10/devine/devine3a.pdf
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/haiti/people.htm
> narrative where this isn't the case. To do this he has to leave out large swaths of Haitian history
I agree with you on this point.
He entirely leave out the Haitian massacre but
>total collapse of the economy and the country
You mean the economy that didn't at all benefit the people who lived there?
>deterioration in life expectancy and quality of life
Again I have a hard time believing a slave had a worse life expectancy after the revolution.
>>13313
>Unending violence
Yes during precolumbian times. Actually, in a similar way that european "barbarians" practiced their warfare. Wars did not happen too much columbian times until the post era with nation states broken away from spain.
>lack of iron working
Isolation is probably a factor. They used obsidian for their more deadlier weapons but as far as armor, they did not have as resilient of defense as otber areas of the world. Maybe something to do with the ritual of the fight??
>lack of domestication of animals
There wasnt too mny beasts of burden out there for them. Geography and ecology play a role in this. The incas were able.to domesticate llamas. Most cultures had some type of domesticsted dog.
>lack of spread ideas through trade
The mesoamericas were one of the hubs of the ancient trade routes. Think of the silk road and samarkand or byzantium's position on that route. It was quite similar in effect.
Hope this helps ya anon!
>>11549
I kinda get where they're coming from, trying to make them realise that kids not dissimilar to themselves had to live through WW1 and probably thought a lot of the same things, but this is just a dumb idea. It feels like a 40 year old trying to be cool.
The problem with history and /his/, is that it's quite subjective. You can choose which facts you want to present, and then make an argument that can go either way on much of history.
Too many people don't just say, "this is what we are confident actually happened." They take it a step further and try to draw a conclusion that fits their narrative.
>>14148
what the hell happened to the mound builders anyway?
>>14182
Of course. Thanks for agreeing with me in these hard times, anon. The truth must be told.
>>14140
Probably.
I came to really dislike Jewish historians, not because I am anti-semitic, but because they are so solipsistic. They disregard any political or intellectual movement that did not had Jewish members, making their history books always incomplete.
>>14270
They got their shit plagued in and what was left had just sorta dissolved into smaller sub-cultures by the time the Europeans came to the mainland, IIRC.
>>12152
So geopolitics?
>>13313
>I think much of it comes from their isolation relative to eurasian civilizations which were able to spread ideas through trade.
This. In Eurasia you pretty much had an unbroken trade link to spread ideas from that ran between dynastic China, the Indian kingdoms, Persia, the Arab world, the Mediterranean and then Western Europe. Ideas and inventions went up and down this chain, and even across Central Asia and Russia directly between Europe and Asia sometimes (for example Taoist monks inventing gunpowder by accident and the Mongols spreading it to Europe).
But Sub-Saharan Africa was separated from this cultural interchange by the Sahara. Sure, some regions benefitted from some cultural radiation, like Ethiopia and West Africa during the later stages of its civilisations (like I'm talking Songhai Empire rather than Nok civilisation), but the majority of the region was isolated, and even the subregions of the region were split in half by the Congo Rainforest, which was impossible to cultivate, and only Pygmies lived there.
The Americas, Australasia and the Pacific Islands are a similar story, except they were isolated by vast oceans instead of a vast desert.
>>14330
Also they deforested and overhunted and overpopulated
This is the best "history" book I've read.
>chinese super fleet visited every continent
>the maps work because I was in the navy and I understand coastlines better than those faggots at the university
>>14248
But isn't ritual a cultural thing? Something Jared Diamond ignores.
Why didn't they use llamas, alpacas, and dogs to help them? Didn't they have cows and horses in the past? It's not like they were helpless.
So they had a lot of trade.
GGS is a flawed book. Definitely didn't deserve a pulitzer, but a fun read nobetheless.
>>14270
They got their shit flooded because of all the logging they did. Then while they were working on fixing that they got earthquaked. A very unlucky time to be Cahokian
Hitler was a good man. He didn't do anything wrong. He even went to church and everything.
>>10942
I criticized John Green once to my friends, of whom are big fans. They were belligerent but really took time to listen to my arguments and counterpointed fairly.
However this didn't stop my one friend's SPOOKY SCARY SKELETON sister from walking into the room and demanding to know why I didn't like John Green. After I explained that I didn't particularly like his stance on slut-shaming and found his reddit-tier "history" to glance over a ton of issues and make incredibly large paintbrush strokes, she started fucking screaming at me.
[spoiler]The Fault In Our Stars is a shit book.[/spoiler]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUEN1ZuDSMg
>>14248
>They used obsidian for their more deadlier weapons
teehee
>>14525
Never watched, always preferred them talking about vidya, but even then I find EC to be a touch immature in the core of their content.
Unrelated but I like this animation: https://youtu.be/-evIyrrjTTY
>>11799
I would say that at least Zinn didn't try to pretend he had written anything other than leftist propaganda. The entire book is less of a history book and more of a polemic against the right and the "great man" theory of history disguised as a history textbook.
In that respect it can still be a good read. It's just not something that should be used to actually LEARN history which is why it shouldn't be assigned reading in high schools since I don't think any high school history class is going into the ins and outs of historiography.
>>14525
To be fair, they admit that they change the narrative for a more interesting video. Doesn't excuse them, but they aren't exactly trying to deceive people either.
>>14558
mate that's all accurate
source: my dad is Louis Farrakhan
>>14378
Explain east africa and the connection between the Aztecs and Incas then. There was little geographic barrier for them.
East Africa has been inhabited and visited by Arabs since Roman times. The nile is perfect entrance into Africa.
Did the Aztecs forget how to make boats to meet the Incas? Were there no tribes in between?
>>10942
He tries to make people more aware of human history. you may not like how he does it but at least he's doing SOMETHING to make people aware of their own history as a species.
>>11659
Sounds just like every writer for Huffington Post.
>>10942
"bad history" is lefty speak for historical revisionism
>>14730
Except for the left, of course.
>>14483
was pretty much immediately discredited when it came out and just looked at as an interesting what if rather than an actual history book
>>14525
>Extra history
Holy fuck, those videos are complete crap. They try to make history sound "EPIK XD" just to gather to the 12 year old viewers.
They literally made an entire 8 minutes long video just to explain the assasination of Franz Ferdinand
>>12060
>>11308
what about SL
is that good
i'm a beginner and I'm very confused with all of this bickering
>>12383
/pol/ please this board isn't for you
>>11549
What time period were these photographs taken?
>>14878
Board hasn't formed an identity yet, so retards are fighting each other.
Happened with /aco/ last month, and it'll happen with any new board.
>>15000
TRIPS OF TRUTH
>>12118
That reminds me, how credible if Fischer's stuff? Because it falls so neatly into the entire British mindset of "The Germans, excuse me, The Hun are brutish warmongers at the top and soulless automatons who blindly follow orders and thus ruin everything and needed to be put down" and the general De-Nazification psychological programming shit that I can't see him as anything other than a propaganda tool.
Completely ignores the wealth of Japanese scholarship dedicated to the Nanking Massacre. Opts for lazy explanations on the reasons behind the massacre (they did it because the Japanese are culturally bloodthristy) rather than an actual analysis of the conditions in Showa Japan and Nationalist China. Has certain historical inaccuracies that gave the revisionists all sorts of ammo. While it did make the Nanking Massacre more well known, the end result probably did more to hurt serious scholarship of the event than to help it.
>>14690
>Aztecs and Incas
Neither culture was strong on sea-faring and there are some pretty impenetrable natural obstacles between Mexico and even the northern-most reaches of the Inca Empire. It should also be remembered that the peaks of both empires (in terms of territory covered) were both pretty brief, so for most of their histories, the two cultures were even further apart.
>East Africa has been inhabited and visited by Arabs since Roman times.
This is why the regions of Abyssinia, Eritrea, Djibouti and Somalia are culturally distinct from the rest of (Bantu) East Africa. In the classical period, the Somali city-states of Mosylon, Opone, Malao, Sarapion, Mundus, Essina and Tabae developed a lucrative trade network connecting with merchants from Phoenicia, Ptolemic Egypt, Greece, Parthian Persia, Sheba, Nabataea and the Roman Empire. However, the cultural interchange was truly strengthened by the spread of Islam and Islamic architecture during the early Medieval period, and we know this through such sites as the Bandar Qassim Castles and the Botiala Fortress Complex. The reason Somalia is such a dicksqueeze of a country today is more to do with it having been in constant civil war between what was once Italian Somalia and British Somaliland for most of the post-colonial period.
Ethiopia is a similar story, though its current sorry state is because of the Dreaded Derg.
>>15169
at least she killed herself amrite?
>>15169
>they did it because the Japanese are culturally bloodthristy
i love this dumb meme in explaining historical events. as if a culture cant be changed from pacifist to warlike or vice versa over the space of a few generations. no, they're just 'inherently culturally violent' or something else that desperately hides ones prejudices.
>>15337
Which is especially ridiculous when you consider what Japan almost immediately turned into following the Second World War.
It's almost as if complex events with a large amount of both state and military actors in a bloody and brutal war have very complex motivations.
Simply is the worst word in explanations.
>>14758
Yeah, and then he wrote a sequel about Chinese starting Italy's Renaissance.
>>14952
World War 1.
>>15169
>Completely ignores the wealth of Japanese scholarship dedicated to the Nanking Massacre
I've never actually heard anything about this but I'm very interested. Got any stuff I can read in english?
>>14248
>but as far as armor, they did not have as resilient of defense as otber areas of the world
One interesting tidbit that's related to this: when Pizarro and his men were invading the Incans they were readily abandoning their steel armor for native native-made, which was a tough, light armor made of cotton and layers of cloth and leather.
(These next two sentences are just me musing, IANAAnthropologist.) Whether this meant, the Incan armor simply outclassed Spanish armor, I have my doubts. I think at the very least it means Incan armor was better suited than Spanish steel against Incan warfare inside Incan territory, which is notable for some reason.
>>12890
Having not watched it, I've heard it come up that he apparently says the Haitian Revolution is more important than the American Revolution. Is that true because if so that's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
>>14813
Whoever wrote this knows nothing about African wildlife or biodiversity.
An example being that African hunting dogs are far from docile and are no more susceptible to domestication than wolves (though their pack structure is based more around posturing than aggression).
There's also the fact that, before the Bantu migration, the only people living in close proximity to African hunting dogs would have been tiny populations of pastoralist Khoikhoi and hunter-gatherer San. And the movement of large populations of Bantu people into African hunting dog distribution zones happened far too recently for domestication to even have begun slightly manifesting.
The rest is equally dim.
How credible is David Irving? Not even talking about the Holocaust thing but I heard he makes a lot of factual mistakes about other things.
>>15260
But why?
And what obstacles were those? The jungle? Weren't the Aztecs already in a jungle?
The Inca and Aztec empires in 1492 were very close to each other in a geographic sense. It just seems odd that the tribes in between them or the 100 mile boat ride from Southern Panama to Acapulco stopped the two from at least interacting and realizing they could learn from each other.
Why didn't the develop a proper written language?
But weren't these separate "arab" cultures connected to Bantu lands? Why did the tech not spread. The difference between coastal Somalia and coastal Zanzibar was minimal.
It just seems odd. There is a great history of Arab and Indian merchants on Africa's east coast, yet the tech did not spread. Isn't the rift valley one of the most environmentally friendly places to form a civilization on the planet?
>>11549
I think his water cooled machine gun finally over heated, time to bolt!!
Awwwww fugg
#Trenchfoot
>>15652
His Wikipedia page is probably worse than anything he has written.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving
>>15000
truly that was a sad day to be a furfag
Phantom time hypothesis. Apparently the years 614-911 AD were a big historical conspiracy.
>>10942
realcrusadeshistory
i.e. catholic dinduism 101
the guy literally is an extremist.
>>15647
Wait. Aren't there dogs in the rift valley and didn't the rift valley have people since the beginning of humanity? I mean, I went there and there were packs of dogs in the wilderness.
The Yugoslav Wars
One of the most manipulated and untruthful presentations of a conflict in modern Western history
>>13610
>These ongoing practices have found new legitimacy in recent reanalyses of human genetic variation that seem to reverse Lewontin's claims. The completion of the Human Genome Project has facilitated large-scale genomic analysis of human populations, much of which uses "ancestry" to map genetics onto traditional racial categories (see Bolnick et al. 2007; Dupré 2008; Nelson 2008). This all contributes to what Troy Duster (2005) has identified as the molecular reinscription of race.
Whitmarsh, I., & Jones, D. D. S. (Eds.). (2010). What's the Use of Race?: Modern Governance and the Biology of Difference. MIT press.
>The study of genomics has resulted in a dizzying back-and-forth stance on race - first denial of any racial difference at the level of DNA, to later focusing attention on these differences...This renewed interest in the biology of race is surprising given that representatives of an array of natural and social sciences, including leading geneticists, once whole-heartedly denounced prior racial biomedicine.
Bliss, Catherine. "Racial taxonomy in genomics." Social Science & Medicine 73.7 (2011): 1019-1027.
>>15449
>Which is especially ridiculous when you consider what Japan almost immediately turned into following the Second World War
it really does make you think about what a tremendous impact nuclear weapons must have on a country that Japan was instantly changed from a warrior culture to a victim culture
>>12850
>My criticism of him is that he argues culture, genetics, and great people have nothing to do with how civilization developed. I argue that they do.
His environmental determinism always seemed somewhat of a fallacy of false dichotomy. There is no good explanation given that it couldn't be all of environment, culture, conflict, genetics, that benefited Eurasia.
>>15673
>Why didn't the develop a proper written language
I'm sure they thought they had
>>15597
Most of the earliest academic scholarship done on the event was by Japanese leftist academics in the 1960s. Despite the reputation that Japan has about obsessively denying anything ever happened, in reality no academic actually denies it happened. Generally the debate is over what forms of evidence should be used to determine the numbers in the event (anecdotal vs statistical). Unfortunately, there's really not many direct translations of Japanese writing on the topic itself, but there are a good number of articles in English on the Japanese historiography that can be found on jstor or other online journal archives.
>>15923
Doesn't that show that their culture made a mistake?
>>15983
Thanks, I'll check it out.
>>14075
>Even if you can find a correlation, that doesn't mean the cause you propose explains it.
You can drop any pretense of being intelligent when you parrot correlation does not equal causation. When anyone uses it as an argument they mean to say "I think that the data which is counter factual to my argument is a coincidence"
Why? Well there are only a few options if two A and B are correlated. You have:
A causes B.
B causes A.
C causes A and B.
A and B were coincidentally related by a statistical fluke.
And then you have to determine how much you care about the specifics, for example with the relevant argument here
Black Genetics causes Lower test scores
White tests cause lower test scores by Blacks
corresponding two the first two options. Does it actually matter which one is true? If your goal is to show that Blacks are less intelligent and your bar for intelligence is your test then it doesn't. When there are possible confounding factors ("C") you do more studies to try tease them out, hence that transracial adoption study trying to figure out if it is environmental or hereditary as Blacks and lower test scores have already been studied to death.
>>11549
Truth be told this would be really easy to ace and while it feels disgusting looking at it now, if I was a middle school student that didn't give 2 shits about wars I'd probably love """"creative""" questions like these because it's easy to bullshit
Plus this isn't as bad as the emoji Shakespeare that I saw in B&N the other day
>>11693
People are trying to re-create le ebin sundae ramen
>>15922
I did find his analysis in collapse of the Rwandan genocide through a malthusian lens rather interesting. He noted that the conventional narrative chalked it up as Hutus lashing out in anger from years of mistreatment by their Tutsi masters, however this ignores the fact that nearly all of Rwandas pygmy population was also murdered during the violence when they have always been the bottom rung of every social ladder. That really this was all one big land grab under the guise of ethnic cleansing because the land was no longer able to support its population.
>>15673
Not him, but both Aztec and Inca (as well as the cultures that became them) were very politically active locally ie they were often very busy subjugating and/or arguing with their neighbors. And as anon said before each culture didn't enjoy a lot of time as top dog, probably not at all long enough to look outside their borders.
It should be noted that cultural diffusion between North and South America did happen (or at very least North to South). Maize was invented in Mesoamerica and it made it's way south however many thousands of years ago.
>>15983
I'm sure there are some.
I mean, these academics are doing a might poor job of educating people considering the polls I've seen on what Japs think about these events.
A large proportion (oddly enough the younger population) doesn't believe these events occurred to a large scale.
>>10942
>>16030
The idea behind "correlation does not equal causation" is that correlation by itself does not equal causation. Finding a common link among a number of case studies is nothing more than a correlation. There are many confounding factors, the biggest one being money (blacks generally live in poorer areas than whites). The only way you can actually prove genetics has a hand in this is by doing an experiment.
>>11549
>americans on history
>>16167
You have frustratingly missed the entire point.
>>11549
>>12543
Some women did do things as you allude to, but your also ignoring the role of the common people in history.
Woman were important just not "as" important as all the men in silly hats.
>>16126
I think I just felt something throb in my head.
There was a channel on youtube called "Bad bitches of history" or something. It was the absolute worst case of historical revisionism I've ever seen
>>15673
>Weren't the Aztecs already in a jungle?
Ok, well you clearly know very little about the location of the Aztec civilisation, the Triple Alliance, or the geography of the region in general. Which is fine, don't worry.
>It just seems odd that the tribes in between them or the 100 mile boat ride from Southern Panama to Acapulco stopped the two from at least interacting and realizing they could learn from each other.
Look, both the Aztec and Incan Empires lasted for about 100 years. Honestly, they were just sparks before the Spanish put them out. There was no time for them to properly spread and contact regions as far away as one another. The Inca didn't reach what is modern Panama ever, in fact they never got much further north of the Ecuador-Colombia border. The distance between Cusco and Tenochtitlan, the two capitals, was actually 4,717 km, which is almost as far as the distance between Tokyo and Dhaka, Bangladesh, and just over the length of Europe between Moscow and Lisbon. And that's the distance straight across the sea, rather than down the landbridge.
>But weren't these separate "arab" cultures connected to Bantu lands?
Literally only by slavery and slave outposts. Even European new imperialism was a more advanced form of cultural transmission than that, and in fact one of the reasons David Livingstone supported the Scramble for Africa - he thought the European powers wished to stamp out the Arab slave trade.
>Isn't the rift valley one of the most environmentally friendly places to form a civilization on the planet?
Not at all, it is the largest seismically active rift system on Earth today, along with 3 active volcanoes. It also houses one of the hottest places on Earth after Death Valley.
>>16200
Then please enlighten me, Sherlock.
>>16126
>point 14
is this talking about the christianization of the kingdom of Kongo by the Portuguese?
>>13828
Ahh yes, my ability to wear a toga implicates my survivabilty. At least 4 years of Latin would finally legitimately help me
