If I wanted to hear about Jesus, I would seek out a theologian, I don't need some second hand person who just regurgitates his Sunday pastors sermon.
Christians who act like they are doing "Gods work" by giving random strangers the "good news" is actually just them behaving like narcissists, behaving like they have some high and mighty moral ground to all others.
It's not humble, it's the exact opposite of being humble, it's fucked.
Christians should talk less and do more. We live in 1 galaxy of TRILLIONS of galaxies, with each galaxy containing BILLIONS of stars, which each Galaxies containing TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS of planets, and you are going to sit there and tell me, in the most anthropocentric way possible, that YOU know what did ALL that? Furthermore, you have a personal relationship with it?
How is this not ego? not narcissism? not power tripping? not the most un-humble ethos a human being can carry in life?
We are factually 1 spec, of 1 spec, of 1 spec of dust in the cosmos, but YOU personally know the acclaimed thing/person/God who made all that.
This is some looney shit m8.
But I get why people follow it, its like comfy as fuck. Religion caters to human social and psychological needs. Especially when it comes to existential questions.
The reality is, when you are dead, you are dead man. Ground food. How do I know this? I've seen dead bodies at war. Seen human bodies torn to pieces, I've also seen road kill, and guess what... It looks very fucking similar. No angle, no super nature bullshit, just life death and reality.
And there is nothing wrong with living life in tune with reality. Nothing wrong at all.
>inb4 fedora
>>1081008
>le universe is weally weally big
> 'War isn't like a cake
that the two sides divide up between them
to the last crumb; there is always a piece
left. That's the piece for the gods, and it
remains outside the argument, and it
elevates the fighting from sheer brutality
and demonic violence. Homer knew and
respected it.'
All the dead aryans you saw are resting in Valhalla or with their ancestors. All the dead Muslims (Im assuming) are in Jannah (Islamic Heaven)
>>1081014
It is unfathomably big.
>>1081044
Is it really? How do we know that's not just how we perceive the universe that that science is lying to us? (This is just for the sake of the argument btw)
>>1081049
You get an idea with a telescope. You get even more if you understand more advanced astronomic technology with our greater telescopes. This would require effort, but you could come to the same calculated conclusions if you invested time into actually understanding the science.
>>1081060
But why do you think so highly of science? What has it truly taught us? Of course science has improved our lives materialistically but it has been detrimental to all other facets of life.
>>1081008
>It looks very fucking similar.
Do you honestly believe everything is how it appears to be?
>>1081073
Because it explains the nature world/universe without asserting anything more. It doesn't answer why, it answers how, and believe it or not, that is enough for people. No need to interject anything else.
>>1081094
Yes, and if not, more future technology will/could detect or explain. For example, not all light is noticeable on the spectrum without technology to detect it.
>>1081117
Ah yes the old "technology of the gaps" canard.
>>1081128
And the "faith in the gaps" is better?
Continuously technology closes faith gaps, but faith doesn't open technology gaps. History has proven this.
>>1081151
How does one "open a gap" exactly?
Also faith is required to close technology gaps because one must believe something can exist before creating it.
>>1081184
They don't simply pray new tech into existence, m8.
>>1081184
>Also faith is required to close technology gaps
Thank God not even religious people obey this :-)
>>1081008
You know, jesus is the antichrist and these faggots are just demons in the hunt.
Very simple, jesus says to love your enemies, no?
TRY doing it.
TRY.
You are in a torture room, you have been there for 20 years, you have been tortured each day 15 hours daily, you've lost many important parts of your body, you're very screwed and the guy won't stop causing extrema pain to you of all kinds. And he laughs, and says blatantly that you will die of old age.
Try and love that guy. Can your heart feel it?
It's antinatural, it's a commandment invented by the devil.
More info: http://pastebin.com/m7aXiBwq
>>1081197
Yet they have faith that something which has not yet arrived yet will arrive.
>>1081203
Yes. I would love and pity the poor brute.
>mfw Catholics don't want people reading the Bible
>>1081203
uh.
Demons? Devil? get real
>>1081216
Then you clearly don't know what serendipity is and the massive role it plays in science.
For instance, when Wilson and Penzias found empirical evidence for the Big Bang, they were actually looking for bird poop on their instruments
>>1081008
Behold an honest man.
>>1081216
Not at all. All tech is made from minor iterations of existing tech.
No one has 'faith' that more futuristic stuff, like teleporters, will ever necessarily be possible.
They certainly aren't sitting round expecting it to magic itself into existence.
Your comparison is absurd.
>>1081227
An atheist is spiritually dead.
>>1081228
>Serendipity
It never ceases to amaze me the lengths to which fedoras will go to rationalize supernatural influence.
>>1081128
That's Two (2!) Ghostbusters references. Count 'em!
>>1081248
And it never ceases to amaze me how little edgy DOOS VULT christfags know about the very history they worship
Religionists are the most dishonest people of them all. Don't you ever get tired of lying to yourselves and others? I mean there has got to be a minute every night when you are alone and admit to yourself: yes, finally I can stop pretending, even if just for a minute; there is no God! Hallelujah let me take this weight off me even for just a moment, there's nobody watching and I can finally be TRUE to myself. You have got to have this moment otherwise how can you live with yourselves? One thing is to deceive others. Another to deceive one's self. Obey Jesus' commandment and let truth set you free. Stop being lying bastards just to feel good about yourselves.
>>1081248
So, I am spiritualy dead and still live a happy and fullfiling life? How can that be? Maybe there is no such thing as a soul then.
>>1081253
Christians worship Jesus Christ.
Heaven and Earth will pass away but His words will never pass away.
>>1081269
Maybe spiritually dead is just empty words and don't refer to any specific object or situation in real life.
live and let live
-
>>1081269
It can be because you value the temporal over the eternal.
>>1081270
>words
Again words. Just empty words. Heaven, hell, passing away, not passing away... These mantras don't mean anything except for the conjurer who wishes to bring about a psychological state through repetition and magical reasoning.
>>1081291
And you know about the "eternal"
You are exactly the kind of narcissistic person is describing in his OP.
Ohm mani padme hum is another mantra, this one Buddhist. Maybe Christian are spiritually dead if they don't repeat this mantra? Actually none is and neither brings about any objective effect, only "spiritual" that is psychological and imagined and even that only to the person repeating them.
>>1081291
How many times have you given away all your possessions to the poor, like you're supposed to?
>>1081298
Jesus is the Word made flesh.
>>1081307
I know that it is more important than the temporal.
Stop lying christards. At least to yourselves. Don't you own yourselves that much?
>>1081315
clearly not his computer, he would rather fight with people on the internet than actually go out and help people like his savior requires him to.
>>1081324
>I know that it is more important than the temporal.
ok narcissist
>>1081315
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.
>>1081008
OP I agree with you fully.
Just try and chill. There are always going to be people with imaginary friends. Just try and ignore their bullshit.
>not knowing that there are many spirits in our world, including old school gods and goddesses
>Solve Et Coagula
>>1081008
In my mind this all brings me back to the big bang theory. I think the most logical explanation to all of this is that time is not a human concept, but rather something we have discovered and measured. Because of this I also believe that the universe exists in cycles. That over an extremely long period of time all energy is collected and condensed until it explodes in into a new universe. There's no beginning and no end. It happens indefinitely over and over. Since energy can't be created or destroyed, it just continues to change form. Religion is comforting for many. Even with as much knowledge and experience as I have, it's difficult to paint a mental picture of infinity. Having such a short lifespan and such a large amount of questions often makes me feel small and helpless. Even as an atheist I see the appeal of religion.
>>1081334
I take that as "I never have, never will and just show myself to be a hypocrite who doesn't follow the very rules I demand others must follow".
Then I have another question for you: why should I follow rules you don't follow? Doesn't your inaction speak louder than libraries of religious teachings?
Most christians are shitty people just like how most atheists are shitty people.
A handful of people from each group have healthy spiritualities but are maligned by the insufferable yet most vocal that take on these "holier than thou" attitudes.
>>1081335
You are right, and for the most part I just roll my eyes and move along. I'm tired of all the religious proselytization interring with historical discussion.
Imagine if you were sitting in a University World History seminar, and every ten minutes someone interrupts with religious banter... it would be terrible.
But you are right, for the most part I do ignore it. I'm not someone who is nutty and actively attacks religion 24/7. I just want to have somewhat decent historical conversations.
>>1081008
>We live in 1 galaxy of TRILLIONS of galaxies, with each galaxy containing BILLIONS of stars, which each Galaxies containing TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS of planets, and you are going to sit there and tell me, in the most anthropocentric way possible, that YOU know what did ALL that? Furthermore, you have a personal relationship with it?
>How is this not ego? not narcissism? not power tripping? not the most un-humble ethos a human being can carry in life?
>We are factually 1 spec, of 1 spec, of 1 spec of dust in the cosmos, but YOU personally know the acclaimed thing/person/God who made all that.
Appeal to humility.
How quaint.
That's besides the point that just because something is small, it's not necessarily unimportant.
Your point is somewhat good, but your logic is shot.
>>1081348
Jesus teaches us that following rules cannot provide salvation.
Only faith in God's mercy through belief in the death and resurrection of His Son can do that.
>>1081291
>Needs religion to have moral values
So basically the reason you're "good" is you're afraid?
>>1081366
The fact that you have posted a pic with all of your posts just shows how you seek attention, it shows just how much of a narcissist you are.
>>1081073
>But why do you think so highly of science? What has it truly taught us?
It's taught me my place in the universe. Obviously you turn to religion for that and we're going to disagree but this knowledge means just as much to me as it does to you.
>>1081378
If I am "good" it is because Jesus loves me.
>>1081366
What a very convenient cop out. You can just claim you're a decent person without ever putting your money where your mouth is.
No wonder your religion is so popular. It allows you to be arrogant when you have no reason to be arrogant.
Anyway, you've demonstrated very neatly why I will never follow your religion. I hold on to a very simple rule of thumb: what you do is what you truly believe in, and you apparently believe in shitposting anonymously, and condemning people for not doing things you don't do either. If I'm going to hell, I'm afraid you'll be joining me
.
>>1081386
I am not a decent person which is why I need Jesus.
>>1081399
oh look, a quote people answered in one form or another since the time of Origen.
Honestly I like the prostheletyzers because I invariably end up knowing more about Christianity than they do. They're not up for a theological debate; they're more interested in a conservative culture most of the time and just use Jesus as their bludgeon. Convo usually goes like this:
Evangelical: "have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and savior?"
Me: "yup"
This surprises them.
Me: "but do you believe in the singular or dual nature of Christ?"
They never have an answer to that, but some will prompt you and try to reconcile what their individual beliefs are with the theological question. They usually favor a dualist interpretation, so I just say I'm Coptic and fuck off
>>1081400
Then begin with yourself before you start condemning others. Wasn't there something in that book of yours about stone throwing, and how that's not okay when you're no better than the people you condemn? I could've sworn it was in there somewhere
>>1081405
>so I just say I'm Coptic and fuck off
Genius.
>>1081385
If you were not, would he still love you?
If you acted in a "good" manner, as he did, would he still let you burn for ever in hell for not believing what seems to a 21st century man as fairy tales? What kind of love is this that require acknowledgement more than action? Is your god so narcissistic?
>>1081400
This confirms my intuition that all religious people are bad people.
In my country these days virtually all religious people are recovering drug addicts, alcoholics and criminals. I guess they had to find another addiction to replace their immoral ones.
In fairness it is better that you believe in magic rather than raping old ladies.
>>1081117
That's a VERY big assumption to make.
Science is just a tool, it's not owned by anyone, and naturally any data produced is always translated through the bias and ideas of both the scientist and the one go brings that knowledge and waters it down for the public.
""""Science"""" most definitely has an addenda because there are plenty of people out there who wish to use it for their own ends.
The big agenda today is to break down the old loyalties of the past (family, faith, tribe) in favor of loyalty to the State (not the nation) with statistics and data to support their end and disrupt others.
Also the universe being comparatively large means nothing unless you're easily swayed by arguments of power. For all we know space is a desolate empty wasteland, and all signs point to that (functionally at least for us) being the case.
>>1081413
>15 While Jesus was having dinner at Levi’s house, many tax collectors and sinners were eating with him and his disciples, for there were many who followed him. 16 When the teachers of the law who were Pharisees saw him eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they asked his disciples: “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
>17 On hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.
>>1081151
There is no faith of the gaps, only faith and that never changes.
Understanding creation only better helps us understand God
>>1081413
Pretty much this.
Religion is one of the instituitions that imputes society's values in induviduals. It's only being replaced by formal education, which is rational and way more productive.
Not to say it does not have it's place anymore, it does. What I am saying is that it can be replaced from an utilitarian point of view.
>>1081409
I'm only here to share good news of the slain and risen king.
>>1081412
Yes, He died for me even while I still rejected Him.
>>1081203
Jesus also says to fight for your freedom and faith
So the case of you being tortured doesn't really apply
Also typical ageist wank, the truth is too hard so they ignore it/invert the truth in order for them to slug along.
>>1081219
>proddies are literally Muslims and worship a collection of books
>>1081426
>The big agenda today is to break down the old loyalties of the past (family, faith, tribe) in favor of loyalty to the State (not the nation) with statistics and data to support their end and disrupt others.
The big agenda is to follow the logical conclusions your data brings you to and report on them. When I'm looking at data sets of gravitational measurements between galaxies I'm think about the gravitational measurements between galaxies. My ethnicity, religious views, moral views, etc. mean nothing. All I want to do is figure out what the data is telling me.
Sure there are isolated incidents of scientists falsifying data (mostly to get funding - not to purposefully delude the public) but the idea of
>muh science bogeyman
is fucking absurd.
>>1081440
>I'm only here to share good news of the slain and risen king.
Why don't you do all of us a favor and share it while serving soup to the homeless. That way, you'd actually be living your beliefs.
Or is there some "Christianity is all talk, no action" clause that was conveniently 'revealed' to some monk you haven't told me about yet?
>>1081404
>Origen
what, you mean the deranged mental gymnastics christians have peddled as solutions?
>>1081326
>atheists get so angry because deep down they feel that looming dread hiding in the corners of their psyche
>>1081439
> Religion is one of the instituitions that imputes society's values in induviduals. It's only being replaced by formal education, which is rational and way more productive.
What a ludicrous statement.
As if "formal education" is a modern secular concept, and our modern secular systems have proven themselves at inculcating moral values into people.
The youth of today shaped by your "productive" formal education, cannot even decide if a person is a man or a woman, short or tall, thin or fat, and you honestly believe modern secular education is qualified to teach people the nature of truth!
Hilarious!
>>1081340
I think the opposite
A world where nothing really matters, where everyone is just a fleshy robot with zero control over their own fate, it's a very comforting stance.
Better to think oneself a rock rolling with the wind than a man who has to make hard choices and be responsible for them.
Atheism is very laissez faire, humans are the only minds around and life is meaningless, it's a comforting lie to ignore the truth of power far beyond our possible comprehension.
>>1081454
The logical conclusion of our data is that human life holds no value and morality is meaningless. Are you sure you wish our species to continue down this path of materialist based ethics?
>>1081463
>they feel that looming dread hiding in the corners of their psyche
everyone feels that, its human nature
christians feel it too, so do hindus, and muslims....anyone who claims otherwise is lying
>>1081456
> Why don't you do all of us a favor and share it while serving soup to the homeless.
Why do you assume he doesn't?
>>1081454
>logical conclusions
More assumptions
There is ALWAYS interpretation and conclusions for one person can be different from another
Not to mention very few people in the sciences anymore are trained in the more philosophical or analytical side of things so their conclusions become even more one sided and focused
>>1081474
>Nature of truth
All I am saying is that it is not necessary for a society with good education, health, family support, etc to have religion in order to function properly. Those who feel the need of spiritual nourishment may choose to follow a religion, but it won't be necessary to form a good person.
>>1081486
>I feel dead inside so everyone else must as well
>>1081492
What is he doing on 4chan then?
>>1081495
> All I am saying is that it is not necessary for a society with good education, health, family support, etc to have religion in order to function properly.
Where is your evidence of this claim?
Simply looking at modern society proves it wrong.
Are you going to go down the communist apologia road of handwaving away the failures of modern secular society with the statement "that's not a REAL society with good education, health, family support, no one's ever tried that before"?
>>1081501
Bringing the light of the Lord to the Godless.
Digital missionary work.
>>1081498
i dont feel dead inside, i just live with natural moments of dread and doubt, just like everybody does and everybody has forever
where do you think religion comes from, its an attempt to fill this void
>>1081483
>The logical conclusion of our data is that human life holds no value and morality is meaningless. Are you sure you wish our species to continue down this path of materialist based ethics?
Why does human life have to hold some special intrinsic value? Because it makes it easier to sleep at night is not a valid answer.
I also don't see the need for an existential foundation for morality. Christians tend to find the idea scary - to the point that I've seen the nessecity of an objective moral code posited as a reason that God has to exist - but I don't see it that way.
Doesn't mean I'm some amoral rapist/murderer who only wishes to do evil.
>>1081493
>There is ALWAYS interpretation and conclusions for one person can be different from another
>Not to mention very few people in the sciences anymore are trained in the more philosophical or analytical side of things so their conclusions become even more one sided and focused
What in the ever loving fuck are you basing any of this on? Take some fucking science classes if you want to talk about it in a meaningful way.
>inb4 fedora
It is fedora. You're smugly reiterating what everyone's heard a thousand times before like you're being insightful.
You're not.
>>1081518
I've said it before and I will say it again: if he truly believe in his religion, he'd be living it, not talking about it. Talk is cheap. Doing is what matters
>>1081514
My evidence is that secularity seems to have a significant correlation with having a high HDI.
>>1081008
You have an interesting religión. Can you tell me more about your beliefs?
Hey you, all your dopes arguing with clouds,
This discussion would be much better if you defined what the word "god" means to you.
This argument all to often devolves into "God is real" vs. "God is imaginary", while both parties are actually talking about two different this.
To me, god is an abstraction of goodness or love, potential a creator in a sense as well.
Btw, most christians and atheists are equally insufferably righteous and proselytizing, so all of you can go to hell and kiss these nits.
>>1081565
>To me, god is an abstraction of goodness or love, potential a creator in a sense as well.
Oh that's okay then, so long as you have defined 'god' with such clarity.
Well done, anon!
>>1081552
HDI is communist mean of destroying the world.
>>1081526
Your morality was created centuries ago BY Christians. If they did not exist you would have a radically different morality, and if no religions existed there might not be morality at all.
Your atheist morality is just a Christian morality minus the belief in God.
>>1081526
> I also don't see the need for an existential foundation for morality.
>I'm a hypocrite who claims to live by logical conclusions drawn from observing the material world yet has no problem abandoning those logical conclusions when they cease to be convenient.
If your "morality" has no foundation what is the logical justification for it's existence? What does it stand on?
>>1081526
But something that comes from above (solar) always is better than what comes from below (cthonic). This is true for the races as it is true for religion/spirituality. Something that derives from the heavens will always be superior to a feminine religion that was birthed from the negroid or judaic souls.
>>1081577
Kek, great argument buddy
>>1081538
He IS doing though you cretin.
>>1081552
Correlation does not imply causation.
Those regions also had a comparatively high "HDI" before they became secular societies.
>>1081552
Let me break this down for you.
>Azerbaijan
LOL
>China
Truly an atheist paradise B)
>South Africa
why dont you take a trip down to Johannesburg and see how fast you get jumped by a nigger
>France
Being swarmed by muslim shits
>Sweden
Check out the rape & migration statistics
>Norway
Christianity isn't Aryan. The aryan soul has overcome it, its only a matter of time before it embraces the Aryan gods of their forebears.
>>1081577
Christianity is jewish means of distracting the world.
>>1081602
This also.
>>1081604
>distracting the world
You mean Aryans.
>>1081599
Yes, he's posting anonymously, on an anime website. What courage and sense of sacrifice that must take.
I'll say it again, if he doesn't follow his own rules, why should I? Why all this demanding of everyone on the planet to obey rules, when he doesn't follow them himself?
The first thing you should always tell a moralist is "you first". They should lead by example. That's a whole lot more credible than shitposting on a website
>>1081593
He means material things aren't the defining factor in human happiness.
>>1081578
I don't know about you, but I have a pretty simple moral code based upon harm and intent to do harm. This covers all the basic morals, as in "killing, stealing, lying, etc. are all usually bad", which are moral values found in literally any civilization because it is impossible to have a civilization if people cannot trust others to not kill them, steal their shit, and lie to them. The only other morals Christianity presents involve observance of mostly-arbitrary laws about things like whose genitals you're allowed to touch (which I disagree with) and a few things about charity being good (which can easily be extrapolated from the concept of doing harm being bad).
>>1081602
This is a misuse of the false causation fallacy.
Whether it is one causing the other there is reason to link development and education and a lessening in religiosity.
>>1081609
> What courage and sense of sacrifice that must take.
Nice strawman
You don't know a single thing about him or his life beyond the the fact that he is posting anonymously on an Cameroonian Sand-painting blog and somehow you have decided that he is not a good Christian and a hypocrite.
To be quite honest your hostility seems to be more rooted in your own spiritual insecurity and guilty conscience than any rational form of logic. You see yourself as immoral so the thought of anyone declaring themselves to be moral (and therefore qualified to judge you) offends you.
>>France
>Being swarmed by muslim shits
>>Sweden
>Check out the rape & migration statistics
The problems for both of these are directly related to a rise of a certain religious group.
>>1081637
>Whether it is one causing the other there is reason to link development and education and a lessening in religiosity.
An irrelevant observation as that was never the point of argument, obviously a society that is "educated" to be nonreligious will see an increase in nonreligious people. The claim was made though that secular education improves society and no evidence has been brought forward to support that claim.
>>1081602
I never said it did.
In my opinion, the same instituitions that led to high HDI led to irreligion.
Did they have a high HDI (compared to lets say, east asia) in the middle ages, when religion was prevalent?
Truth is free-thinking scares some people, but is the basis of the west's achievements.
How many great philosophers were acused of impiety? Socrates, Anaxagoras, Locke...
AGAIN, I'm not saying religion and science can't coexist, just that religion is not vital to a society.
>>1081643
Which is also linked to a decline in a certain religious group. It's almost as if religion is a part of human nature and attempts to stamp out the indigenous variety only causes a vacuum which foreign varieties then fill...
>>1081656
Evidence was posted here >>1081552 that education and development leads to non-religiosity or the other way round. The false cause fallacy only applies when there is no reason to think to things are correlated and the correlation is just chance.
And it is you that has randomly inserted the strawman "educated to be non-religious" which is not what anyone else said.
In the UK for example it is still a legal requirement that children in state schools are educated to BE religious and religiosity is still dropping like a stone.
>>1081663
>Did they have a high HDI (compared to lets say, east asia) in the middle ages, when religion was prevalent?
Are you implying that religion was less prevalent in East Asia during the Middle Ages in comparison to Europe?
This may come as a shock to you but Christianity is not the only religion in the world.
>>1081679
How dense are you?
What I am saying is that when Europe was as religious as the rest of the world it wasn't leading, it was actually worse of than east asia.
>>1081672
> And it is you that has randomly inserted the strawman "educated to be non-religious" which is not what anyone else said.
If no one else has said it, it's because they were too stupid to realize the logical implications of what they were saying. Formal education is nothing new.
>>1081614
I never stated HDI equals happiness. It's just one of the best measures of development we have. Happiness is subjective.
>>1081691
So where in the developed word are being being "educated to be non-religious", provide examples.
If you are just saying "formal education" i.e. the populace being provided with decent education leads to a lessening of religiosity then you are proving the point not arguing against it.
>>1081690
> What I am saying is that when Europe was as religious as the rest of the world it wasn't leading, it was actually worse of than east asia.
So in other words development level has no correlation to level of religiosity.
..and you call me dense.
>>1081718
> So where in the developed word are being being "educated to be non-religious", provide examples.
Everywhere that religious instruction is not a part of the secular education system.
>>1081578
>Your morality was created centuries ago BY Christians. If they did not exist you would have a radically different morality, and if no religions existed there might not be morality at all.
Plenty of societies that possessed vastly different religions came up with moral codes that are pretty similar (don't kill, steal, rape, etc). Hell, christian morality has changed a ton over the last 2000 years.
>Your atheist morality is just a Christian morality minus the belief in God.
No, I don't believe in a lot of christian moral values. I have pre-marital sex and think it's ok, I have no qualms against abortion, I take drugs on occasion, I don't believe in turning the other cheek, I think gay marriage is fine, etc.
>>1081589
>If your "morality" has no foundation what is the logical justification for it's existence? What does it stand on?
It doesn't have to stand on anything. You're the only one that thinks it does. I just try to love my family and friends, live a good life, and avoid being a dick to people. And my moral compass is definitely shaped by science when relevant.
>>1081590
>But something that comes from above (solar) always is better than what comes from below (cthonic). This is true for the races as it is true for religion/spirituality. Something that derives from the heavens will always be superior to a feminine religion that was birthed from the negroid or judaic souls.
What the fuck are you even saying? This isn't an argument.
>>1081008
One problem, mate.
How are you going to know what I do in my life off the board for Christ Jesus?
Do you see how disingenuous you are being? I have no control over the Christians that you meet off-board, and I have no idea if they are witnessing to you.
But I do know that I am obeying the Great Commission and spreading the gospel to the uttermost ends of the earth.
Pay attention to us. We may just save your life. Or more.
>>1081737
I already gave an example of where religious indoctrination is part of the curriculum and it still isn't helping your cause.
This is also a massive shifting of goalposts, to suggest it is the role of government to actively decide on a religion and actively indoctrinate children into it rather than remaining neutral is some how "educating to be non-religious" is beyond ridiculous.
>>1081718
The secular humanism/evolutionism being taught in US public schools is advanced as a religion.
If you disagree, go to a School Board meeting and protest the teaching of Darwinian evolution, and the introduction of Intelligent Design, and watch people snap.
>>1081753
>I officially give up. You must be trolling me.
Don't be a faggot, either admit you can't logically support your claim and you're wrong or point out where I'm wrong. You being an illogical fuck up doesn't make me a troll.
>>1081769
>Pay attention to us. We may just save your life.
the arrogance to say this to complete strangers.
>>1081718
Real, honest, talk: people in the developed world have been educated to be non-religious since the 19th Century.
Oh, it's nothing formal. They're not outright taught in schools to believe in God. However, the prevailing trends in thought and education since the 1800s have been secular, because that was when Modernity, the humanist, secular thinking of the Renaissance and the Enlightenment finally filtered down to the lowest levels of society.
Our entire system of education is fundamentally non-religious. Just because it doesn't come right out and tell kids not to believe in God doesn't take away from that. It teaches them the same sort of empiricism pioneered by Bacon, Descartes, Hume, etc., which is atheistic.
>>1081552
This graph has no legend. It could literally be people who eat hot cereal in the morning.
>>1081787
It's not arrogant to believe what God says is true.
It's wise.
>>1081759
The trouble is that I could be an asshole to you, and justify it just as well as you could justify not being an asshole to me. I could make up reasons that are equally valid as yours, since there is no objective standard of behavior.
>>1081778
I have to laugh at this.
To suggest teaching evolution, accepted by every branch of Christianity throughout the developed world as fact, except bizarre and nutty American Protestant groups is just the same thing as pushing humanism as a philosophy is ludicrous.
All you are proving is your parochialism.
>>1081759
>No, I don't believe in a lot of christian moral values. I have pre-marital sex and think it's ok, I have no qualms against abortion, I take drugs on occasion, I don't believe in turning the other cheek, I think gay marriage is fine, etc.
If you were to confess this to God, do you think God would judge you guilty or innocent of violating His laws?
You can take it as a hypothetical if you wish, as I strongly sense you will simply dismiss the question behind some shield of disbelief.
>>1081803
And you are a fine product of the godless secular humanism taught in today's schools.
That you are just an animal who just happened to exist in a universe that just happened to pop into existence for no specific reason whatsoever.
>>1081014
You're an idiot who clearly did not get the point
>>1081774
> I already gave an example of where religious indoctrination is part of the curriculum and it still isn't helping your cause.
Are you referring to the claim that was made that religious instruction is supposedly mandatory in British schools?
That claim is laughable on it's face as simple logic shows it to be false. Britain is officially a multicultural society, in which a substantial number of it's schools are majority Muslim. Only an idiot could believe that such an education system is providing unified "religious indoctrination" to it's students.
>>1081805
If you want to proselytize I suggest you turn off your computer and leave it to people who aren't quite as retarded as you
The best thing you can do for your religion is to pretend you never heard of it
>>1081779
Shit, do you know the meaning of correlation?
Maybe meme arrows will help.
>a statistical relation between two or more variables such that systematic changes in the value of one variable are accompanied by systematic changes in the other.
>As europe became more developed, it somehow also became more irreligious.
>SO, lets set the dependable variable as HDI.
>The independable variable is going to be IRRELIGION
>Ceteris paribus, if you imput high irreligion value, you are going to get a higher HDI.
>in other words: If you pick a developed country, you have a much higher chance of getting high irreligion back. Thus, one correlates with the other.
>>1081804
>If you were to confess this to God, do you think God would judge you guilty or innocent of violating His laws?
Guilty, I'm sure.
Doesn't bother me in the slightest. I feel far freer now that I've gotten over the weight of religious guilt.
>>1081820
Another wild strawman.
I didn't say the UK had a unified system of indoctrination, yes it has Muslim schools where children are indoctrinated to be Muslim as well as Christian schools where children are indoctrinated to be Christian as well as Jewish schools where children are indoctrinated to be Jewish.
>Are you referring to the claim that was made that religious instruction is supposedly mandatory in British schools?
It IS mandatory, by law, FACT, I know people like you hate facts but there it is.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/11674820/Its-time-to-end-compulsory-daily-worship-in-schools-says-Clarke.html
>>1081827
>As europe became more developed, it somehow also became more irreligious
Yet somehow East Asia during the Middle Ages was able to become more developed than Europe without a corresponding decline in religious belief....
The fact that you feel qualified to act condescending when your argument requires us to ignore this detail is honestly quite sad.
>>1081794
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_irreligion#/media/File:Irreligion_map.png
http://www.wingia.com/web/files/news/14/file/14.pdf
>>1081846
>All state schools are required under the 1944 Act to hold a compulsory daily act of worship but most — apart from the 6,800 faith schools — ignore the law.
>but most ignore the law
>most ignore the law
Yes clearly an excellent example of a strong state instituted system of religious indoctrination in schools....
>>1081849
I don't have to feel sad because there was no significant variation of religiosity in east asia in the period. It seems you think I am saying atheism=progress, which I never stated.
>>1081877
So what exactly are you saying then?
My argument is that irreligion is not inherently linked to increased development. You seem to take issue with this statement.Why?
>>1081873
I'm sorry that most schools only have time for weekly worship and not daily according to the law and that the religious indoctrination isn't quite strong enough for you.
Were you at any point going to stop moving the goalposts and actually provide evidence of children being taught to be non-religious in schools?
Or were you going to pitifully bleat that the religious indoctrination isn't strong enough?
>>1081823
Many people in heaven will be happy that I do not obey the children of this world.
Nor do you have a clue what "religion" I am.
>>1081829
So, you're going to be on trial for your life, you have no lawyer, and the Judge knows you better than you know yourself.
I don't want you to feel guilty. The penalty for all of your crimes against God were paid for, in full, at the cross. It's done. Finished. There's only one sin left, and it's Unbelief.
I don't want you to feel guilty.
I want you to feel terrified.
>>1081864
That may be the absolute most meaningless chart, graph, and wiki page ever, and we are all the worse off for you introducing it into our lives.
>>1081897
lol
The only person moving the goalposts is you. An entirely optional class that essentially boils down to a comparative religion lesson is not religious indoctrination in any form. You are deliberately misrepresenting religious education in British education and it's glaringly obvious to anyone that's paying attention your smug dismissal of my arguments as "bleating" not withstanding.
>>1081896
My argument is that society can properly function without religion.
This argument was backed by showing correlation between development and irreligion.
I apologise for being condescending earlier, maybe my argument wasn't exposed in a clear manner. I just got mad due to the correlation being obvious and backed by data.
>>1081949
It is not an "optional class" it is compulsory worship.
You're just talking out of your ass to try and cover the fact that multiple posts into a discussion of the wild bullshit claim that not being religious is being taught in schools you still have no evidence.
None at all.
Diddly squat.
Nothing but hot air and bullshit.
>>1081962
Let's see. Countries that forbid and outlaw religion. Countries that demand to take the place of God in the human heart.
Yes, these are great countries indeed. Many come to mind.
And hundreds of millions of their detractors were conveniently murdered.
>>1081008
History is His Story.
>>1081962
I see.
I still disagree though as this requires the assumption that development and function are the same thing. It is my opinion ( I cannot prove this) that development is a bit like inertia. Just because the car is still rolling forwards does not mean the engine is still working. It is entirely possible that we are simply coasting on the accomplishments of those that came before us and our progress will falter as we cease to display the social attributes of those that got us here. I don't want you to think I'm claiming that a particular religion is required for development, just that it is my belief that religious thinking is an evolved human behavior that we can't just erase, and any society that claims to have done so has simply replaced it with a new unproven religion that may not (and probably won't) stand the test of time by sustaining a functional society.
>>1081989
Hundreds of millions were conveniently murdered throughout history for a variety of reasons, religion being one of them.
If your fight is agains authoritarianism and intolerance, I'm with you. But that is not the point in this discussion and you know it.
>>1081967
Incorrect.
The offering of the class is compulsory, actually attending the class is optional.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_education_in_primary_and_secondary_education#England
>The provision of Religious Education is compulsory in all state-funded schools, but it is not compulsory for any of the children to take the subject.
>>1082037
Your point is completely valid.
I don't think we will ever "get rid" of religion, just that it will move to the individual sphere and that is where it should stay. Some people treat science or the state as religion which to me is clearly wrong and detrimental.
My opinion (I also cannot prove this) is that we are who we are and came as far as we did through empiric knowledge and reason, thus the correlation.
>>1082057
>Please make it compulsory to learn my delusions senpai!
>Otherwise people will see it's just fiction!
In my country we have compulsory religion classes which have a heavy focus on christianity, but not in a preaching manner. I'm ok with this.
>>1082057
You are mixing up religious education, something you wouldn't approve of anyway with the compulsory act of worship
>>1081044
So is God.
Inshalla my fellow atheist. ;)
>this entire thread
>these autist 15 year old Atheists whining that people have devotion
Holy lmao.
>>1082448
Quality post mate.
>>1082453
*tip*
>>1082448
There is no problem with people discussing religon here, but the proselytizing is contrary to the boards stated purpose.
examples: What was Arainism why did it die out?
Good
example: The current pope is gay loving secularist, join the western rite Orthodox church!
Bad
>>1082041
That you did not learn the bloody lesson of Statism from the 20th century gives me little hope you'll learn it in your lifetime.
>>1081044
So is my dick.
>>1082099
Thus your religion is Empiricism.
>>1082473
>Stop liking things I don't like.
>>1082473
>This is MY board
>MY rules
Children get their own play box at reeddit, where you belong.
>>1082487
>religion
>sorcery and magic
>invisable magic sky daddy
You don't know how cringey and wrong you are do you?
>>1082489
Actually he is right, proselytizing is not part of the humanities. This is obvious.
>>1082501
Yup. Nobody in history ever proselytized anyone else, and nothing bad ever came of it.
>>1082501
>>1082489
Nobody does it in any effective or intentional manner, just autistic atheists stomping their feet that not everyone is a
>supreme gentleman
>>1082496
> divine miracles are real!
> b-b-b-b-but it isn't magic!
There is a paper thin difference and it is relevant only for D&D rulebooks.
>>1082512
Do you even know what the Humanities are?
I'm starting to suspect you've never stepped foot on a University campus.
>>1082496
There's nothing inaccurate about what I said.
Sorry if you don't like accurate words to describe your belief in wizards with magic powers.
The only thing you are 'cringing' from is yourself.
>>1082570
They don't know the difference.
Which is why this is a problem on /his/
>>1082517
Would you rather be a cleric or a wizard anon?
Better yet, a druid or a sorcerer?
>>1081073
Dude, odds are you're still alive right now because of medical science, you survived countless potential childhood maladies through immunization programs for example. You haven't died of a bacterial infection yet due to antibiotic medications.
There's other stuff too, but seriously man, show some respect for the collective human knowledge that has allowed you the life of relative comfort you have now.
>>1082559
>>>/reddit/
>>1082692
Modern science could not exist without Christianity
>>1081350
Yer in the wrong place, buddy.
This is 4chan. You'd consider it a miracle of the Christcucks and fedoras DIDN'T shitpost in a thread.
>>1082802
recommend a better place pls
>>1082724
Yeah it could, there is no reason to think that it couldn't other then pro-christian bias on your part. The Greco-Romans had surgical tools practically indistinguishable from modern ones minus obvious exceptions.
>>1082802
What I want to know is why xtians come here to preach in the first place. Nobody on here likes them and nobody is going to waste their time on a religion that tells them porn is bad and sexual immorality is bad.
We like those things and don't give a shit about the people who say otherwise.
>>1082851
Because they aren't explictly forbidden to do so by the board and global rules.
You'd be surprised as to how many things people can get away with if you don't spell it out.
>>1082851
its because they probably feel bad for fapping all day to /gif/ and /b/ so they come to /lit/ and /his/ to try and feel better about themselves.
Do you really think any normal christian person would be on 4chan. ha, nope. only the marginalized bottom dweller christians are here.
>>1081008
>I see dead things and because they are not moving no part of them exists anymore
Wew
>>1081008
Religion is a mental derangement, you won't be able to talk with these people.
>>1082851
Because we were told to go out and preach the Gospel and make disciples of all the nations.
Maybe YOU won't listen, but some people here will.
>>1081008
Das a pretty picture man.
>>1082989
Tip
>>1081008
You are the wewest of lads
>>1081008
>THE UNIVERSE IS HUGE
Literally an appeal to the stone fallacy and not an argument
You all are euphoric as shit. I feel like my current practice isn't making me as euphoric as this. Who is the most euphoric branch of christfags? It needs to be more euphoric than luciferian dzogchen or I'm not even going to bother.
>>1081008
>We live in 1 galaxy of TRILLIONS of galaxies, with each galaxy containing BILLIONS of stars, which each Galaxies containing TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS of planets
weeeeew
Fun fact: we will NEVER reach any planet outside of our galaxy and God Almighty knows this.
pic related https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nearest_stars_and_brown_dwarfs
>YOU know what did ALL that?
Yes, God Almighty.
>you have a personal relationship with it?
It? Don't you mean Him? To answer your question, yes, because the Word became flesh.
>>1081008
>when you are dead, you are dead man.
Only the body is dead.
>How do I know this? I've seen dead bodies at war.
That's great, but you haven't seen the spiritual world.
>no super nature
Of course, because we are living merely in the physical realm.
pls don't proselytize your distaste for poselytization
>>1084227
>That's great but you haven't seen the spiritual world
Fucking psykers.
Get the fuck out of here.
>>1084222
>we will NEVER
>muh almighty
>t. cletus
Kek, because if we do your religion would be totally invalid.
Some some faggots would have cognitive dissonance anyways. Similar to how earth not being 6000 years old or Utanapistim did not prevented people to believe in Christianity
>>1084268
at least learn english before posting
>>1081340
>big bang theory
You should thank Georges Lemaître, a Belgian priest, astronomer and professor of physics at the Catholic University of Leuven.
Watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQUsK2eNkfc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSmV2FlHDw
>>1084227
>That's great, but you haven't seen the spiritual world.
Go back to the immaterium, warp scum.
>>1081008
Missionary work is a core tenet in most variations of Christianity. This is the main reason it is the most dominant religion compared to religions such as Judaism in which religion spreads by generation leading to their religious group being also an ethnic group. Christians acting as missionaries is simply an attempt to grow their religion. It seems to have worked well for them so far imo. It doesn't appear to be a problem unless you are a militant atheist.
>>1084222
OP on suicide watch, trips confirm
>>1084300
dubs confirm
>>1084301
uno confirm
>>1081036
>That pic
What the fuck even is? Ffs someone explain this to me, because right now this seems like a sentence strung together randomly.
>>1081008
I agree with main tenet of this post. This is not a board for religious proselytism, this is a board for discussion history.
Honestly, I could deal with this place being /pol/ with dates, I cannot and will not accept this nonsense. That said, I really don't know how we're supposed to stop this stupid shit, the mod doesn't seem to do anything about these clowns.
>>1082984
No, I'm saying that because surgical tools from the times of the romans are not noticeably different from surgical tools of the late 19th/early 20th centuries. There was nothing that stopped the greco-romans from building a highly complex and sophisticated civilization, and the idea that germ theory say would somehow be beyond them, or the peoples who inherited their legacy solely because they don't believe in christian religious dogma is nonsensical.
>>1082991
Nobody on here is going to listen you dolt, and even if a few did they would still wack off to porn and do all sorts of "impure" things, just like countless people have done throughout history.
>>1084327
>what is modern hygene, Vitals monitors, precision manufactured tools, anatomy, replaceable heart valves, and any plethora of things besides some rough bronze age surgical tools
Fuck off
>Christian religious dogma
That's not the point.
Without Christianity, it is difficult to argue that we would have the same scientific progress as we would have without it.
>>1084341
>what is modern hygene, Vitals monitors, precision manufactured tools, anatomy, replaceable heart valves, and any plethora of things besides some rough bronze age surgical tools
Stuff that is not dependent on the christian religion to exist. I mean really, you think christians were the first people to think of bathing?
lawl.
>>That's not the point.
>>Without Christianity, it is difficult to argue that we would have the same scientific progress as we would have without it.
No it isn't.
The west developed as it did because they were being locked out of access to eastern trade routes, this led to western explorers to discover the americas, that in turn led to colonialism and the wealth from that allowed western nations to develop into the powerhouses that they were and largely still are. That wealth and power was what allowed modern medical science to occur, not christianity.
>>1084362
You dumb shit.
Hygene goes much farther beyond fucking dipping your dumb ass in water, and you completely ignore the role of Christianity in Europe's history.
You're actually blatantly ignoring history to fit your fedora tipping.
>>1084374
B8
>>1084387
>>Hygene goes much farther beyond fucking dipping your dumb ass in water
Sure, and there is no reason to think christians are the only people of figuring this out.
>>and you completely ignore the role of Christianity in Europe's history.
Christianity doesn't matter as much as you think, the people doing the thinking, fighting, trading, inventing and conquering would have done the same things only with different justifications.
>>1084401
No.
You get out. This is not the board for christian apologetics. It is the board for historical discussion.
>>1084411
This is not a board for Atheistic revisionism and historical assumptions.
What we have is
>This is how history happened with Christianity and the role it's played
And you slander it as
>It all would have happened the exact same way regardless if we were all pagan shits or not
Fuck.
Off.
>>1084419
>>Fuck Off
No I won't.
There is no reason to think that polytheists, bhuddists, hindus, jains, animists or whatever non-abrahamic faith you can name are rendered incapable of inventing modern medicine by their religious beliefs alone.
Technological advancement is a matter of wealth, power, and also trade. Guess who had most of that when modern medical science became a thing? The western nation states.
>>1084444
The entire point is still miles above your head, you're operating in complete hypotheticals, I am talking about our current and present time period, how we got here, and how we wouldn't have gotten here without Christianity.
Fuck off.
>>1084472
Hmm? I never said things would be the same. I said we would have modern medicine without the existence of christianity. And we would because there is nothing about non-christian belief systems that precludes its development as such.
>>1084483
Entirely hypothetical, sure eventually we MIGHT have modern medicine, but in no way can you claim it would have developed in the same time frame.
And you've expanded your argument far beyond just modern medicine.
>>1084472
No one can know what would have happened without Christianity, It such a big change so far back that you can only make guesses.
Its true that there were Christians who contributed to the development of the scientific method. This no more validates Christianity than pointing to achievements by people of different faiths.
No one is saying that you can't talk about Christianity here, or its contributions to the arts and sciences. But the constant threads by different sects encouraging others to convert are against the spirit of the rules which encourage academic discussion, and are more appropriate to /pol/.
If you want to talk about the Church fathers, the protestant reformation, the role of the pope in the early church. all that is fine and fits here perfectly, but shitting on the current pope so people will join you sect is blatantly against the 25 year rule, it not academic, it contributes nothing
>>1081298
They're just reciting mantras for themselves. They think it'll convince other people but it just is self-reinforcing. Because to allow question to enter the mind is sin.
>>1081440
LMAO at Hitler's reaction with Henry the Beefy next to him.
And Napoleon and Stalin just broing out.
>>1081440
Whose is the guy in the suit suppose to be?
>>1084643(You)
>>1081440
>that jew picking up shekels on the left
classic
>>1084707
Also the Pharisee above him clinging to the Torah and gesturing as if to say "What is all the commotion for? This is nothing."
The problem isn't that people on the board are talking about religion. The problem is that people on the board are literally incapable of having a conversation once the topic of religion comes up. If people on this board discussed religion the same way they do any other topic (say logical positivism, or historical questions, or mythology), these threads would be dead after a day and no one would care. There's just too much autism overall for that to ever happen, though.
>Claims Christians just regurgigate shit said by their pastor
>WE ARE JUST ONE SPEC OF DUST IN A SUNBEAM MANNNNNN
>UNIVERSE SO BIG I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE LMAO
>>1084490
Really? What mechanism makes a non-christian society incapable of developing modern medicine within a few hundred years of reaching the position europe had in the year 1700?
Rhetorical question, there isn't one and technological and scientific development are caused by wealth, trade and power. Not faith.
>>1084806
How is humanities discussion equivalent to religious preaching again? How can anyone discuss anything about religion at all with all these insane autistic retards throwing their shit at the walls?
>>1084874
They're closer to humanities than all the reddit tourists that flood the board with alt-history threads, video game threads, meme threads, /int/-bait threads, and other trash like this /qa/-tier whining thread. The proselytizing is at a minimum compared to all the other off topic trash, and if you really want /pol/ with dates just go to /pol/.
Serious question: How do Christians confront and explain societies/cultures that have historically never been Christian yet despite this are still prosperous, functioning, and harmonious (Korea, China, Japan, etc)
Is it the same way Islamic countries view the western countries that are doing just fine without being subservient to Allah?
>>1084964
It doesn't matter how successful you are you'll still going to burn in hell if you don't believe in JESUS!
>>1081008
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3EzRAgjo_s
>>1081008
>the universe is big guys
>so stop
I don't get this. Until there is a bigger purpose behind the universe being big, when I can get some actual value from things bring physically large, I'll begin to get it.
>>1084964
most christians have no fucking clue about their own theology
>>1081008
>Christians should talk less and do more.
lol.
Look what the Christian churches are doing charity-wise. You are deluded and self-centered cause some of them annoyed you.
>>1085012
This is just retarded. Only American Evangelists would still say retarded shit like this.
>>1084964
>Pope John Paul II also showed his concern about how the west was unquestionably adopting the culture of the East without even knowing and understanding the culture they were born into. In the Pope’s own words,”what unites is much greater than what separates us”, gives hope to the relation of Buddhism with Catholicism, and reflects the conviction of the Pope in co existence of different faiths was much greater than the differences that separated them. The aura of the great pope can be still felt through his statues that are carved in bronze and captures every detail about him almost to perfection.
>>1084397
>Christianity doesn't matter as much as you think, the people doing the thinking, fighting, trading, inventing and conquering would have done the same things only with different justifications.
Max Weber, Norbert Elias and literally every influential historian are disagreeing on that.
