If god is infinitely perfect and humans are (morally) flawed, doesn't that mean that he must hate us?
Is that the reason why suffering exists?
He doesn't hate humans.
He does really fucking hate the stupid shit we do, though.
God doesn't hate us. Our moral ineptitude stems from our own free will, as does our suffering.
>applying rationalism to faith
>wipes out all of us
>purposefully scrambles our languages to make it harder to communicate
>roots for one team of dipshits over the rest of the world
>i love you
This is a master ruseman, and most of the world bought his lies in some form.
>it's another "Atheist doesn't understand Christianity" thread
Suffering exists because of sin.
We (mankind) chose to reject God and listen to Satan's lies.
In pagan mythology, Satan appears as a liberator who gave us the gift of intellect/knowledge.
In Biblical Judeo-Christianity, Satan is a liar and deceiver who is responsible for all of this mess.
Ultimately, God uses things for good.
It's all about the long-term.
PS: I've read the book, God wins and there is a happy ending
>>1040045
yeah a newborn baby that had its parents murdered was responsible because it had sinned
>>1040045
>We (mankind) chose to reject God and listen to Satan's lies.
Really? What hand did you have in that, pray tell?
>>1040036
Is it because of autism? Does he hate whatever we do because of his cripling autism?
>>1040044
>wipes out all of us
That's because of the fallen angels that had sex with human women and created giant Nephilim offspring.
Lucifer was trying to pollute the human genepool to prevent the messiah from coming.
The world is very wicked and evil, that's why the flood happened. Noah and his family were the only only pure humans left.
>scrambles our languages
That's because Lucifer, by using Nimrod, was trying to build a New World Order. One language, one religion, one united attack against God.
Sovereign nations and borders guarantees freedom.
>roots for one team
Because the rest were burning children to underworld gods, having orgies in temples and having sex with animals. They were filled with diseases.
God chose a people for Himself out of which the promised saviour would come.
>>1040045
>We (mankind) chose to reject God and listen to Satan's lies
Don't talk to me or my son or my son's son or my son's son's father or my communist manifesto ever again
>>1040062
>That's because Lucifer, by using Nimrod, was trying to build a New World Order. One language, one religion, one united attack against God.
That's not in the books, for one. And I'm very curious what you think a "united attack against God" would look like, or result in.
>That's because of the fallen angels that had sex with human women and created giant Nephilim offspring.
And he is incapable of fixing them?
>God chose a people for Himself out of which the promised saviour would come.
Good, then he doesn't love everyone and people can shove off with this nonsense.
>>1040022
Kind of weird to die for people you hate, so that they can live with you forever.
>>1040043
When you go to a doctor, you have faith that he knows what he's doing.
When you sit on a chair, you have faith that it will hold you.
When you get on a plane, you have faith that the pilot will bring you to the desired location.
It's called having reasonable faith.
Blind faith is, for example, believing that you came from a rock 9 trillion years ago and that your grandparents were monkeys. You need alot of faith to believe that, I could never have that much faith.
>>1040057
No, but sin is the reason the baby's parents were murdered. And so is death. Sin is the reason there's death in the world.
>>1040089
>sacrificing yourself to yourself in a sacrifice that literally means nothing to you in order to forgive people
makes sense
>>1040058
I was born a descendant from Adam and Eve, who could only make children in their own spiritually dead and fallen image.
Play the hand you're dealt.
>>1040059
11/10 autistic.
>>1040086
Of course it is. It's in Genesis.
There is no fix for fallen angels.
There didn't need to be a fix for fallen humans.
How come Satan gives God so much trouble? That means Satan is a God too and Satan worship is justifiable since he is just as powerful as God.
>>1040098
Satisfying God's holiness, justice and righteousness so that God can in His mercy and grace offer us the free gift of His salvation.
Makes perfect sense, yes.
>>1040090
>falsely equating religious faith with expectations
>>1040113
He doesn't. And he'll be dealt with.
>>1040116
Expectations are beliefs about the future that you cannot see.
Faith is about believing things that you cannot see. For instance, things in the future.
>>1040022
He made mankind in his image
>>1040090
>you came from a rock 9 trillion years ago and that your grandparents were monkeys.
t. "I don't understand what rational objective scientific observation is"
This is the dumbest thing i've heard a theist say ever. No actually, one of the dumbest.
>>1040086
>That's not in the books, for one.
Yes it is.
Take a look at the world today. The increasing internationalism, the destruction of borders, sovereignty, culture and family identity.
Don't worry, Satan is building up a Tower of Babel v2. He can only introduce the Antichrist when the world is united in one ecumenical New Age religion.
>And he is incapable of fixing them?
God does not trample on our free will.
He is perfectly just and righteous.
As morally responsible creatures, we have to face the consequences for our actions. God gave you the gift of life and existance, and He can also take it away.
>then he doesn't love everyone
He does. Jesus died for all of mankind.
Anyone who believes in Christ is saved from eternal destruction.
Israel was just the delivery method.
Jesus came from the line of David.
>>1040110
>Of course it is. It's in Genesis.
Nothing in the story of the tower of Babel even references the great Shaitan. And good job ignoring the question. I'll repeat for your convencience:
I'm very curious what you think a "united attack against God" would look like, or result in.
>There is no fix for fallen angels.
Nice omnipotent god.
>There didn't need to be a fix for fallen humans.
Sure. We're disposable to an all-loving asshole.
>>1040129
If you believe in evolution, you believe you came from inanimate objects, or you confess your ignorance in light of a far more robust answer: God did it.
>>1040121
>arguing semantics
>>1040136
God: Spread out over the world and multiply.
Babylon: Let us gather here together and make bricks out of men.
Babylonian gospel: Let us use our knowledge of good and evil, and be like God. Let us build a tower that will grant us access to heaven.
>>1040144
Setting straight your crooked semantics, actually. Faith/belief/trust are all interconnected.
>>1040154
>thinking the "belief" one has in god is the same "belief" one has in a doctor
>>1040136
Nimrod is a Nephilim, a satanic demon/human hybrid.
That you cannot admit your father's work is a shame to you.
Why is sodomy not allowed when God gave us the tools to do it.
Why not just make a penis and a vagina that can't be used with anything else
>>1040143
>robust
First off, stop using words you don't know, it just makes you look dumb
Second:
>If you believe in evolution, you believe you came from inanimate objects
This is absolutely not true, so quit lying just because you're losing the debate
>>1040166
You don't have a separate source of sensory organs to believe what you call "normal" or "natural" and what you call "supernatural". It's the same sense. Faith. The ability to believe the unseen. Everyone has it, everyone uses it.
>>1040151
>Babylon: Let us gather here together and make bricks out of men.
>working together implies no spreading and multiplying
>Babylonian gospel: Let us use our knowledge of good and evil, and be like God. Let us build a tower that will grant us access to heaven.
You're gonna tell me god's kingdom can be reached with simple tall structures?
>>1040168
Why make us free will moral agents.
Why give us alternatives to loving Him.
>>1040168
Why don't we just make crime illegal?
>>1040167
You're talking like a nimrod, that much is clear.
>>1040173
I'm unaware of a superlative form of "robust" or I would use it instead.
If you're an evolutionist, you can either accept abiogenesis or shrug your shoulders in ignorance.
>>1040184
God is ok with most crime, and does it constantly Himself.
>>1040180
Yes, gathering in one place to make a name for yourself is not going to the ends of the world to spread out and dominate the earth, be fruitful, and multiply. It's the opposite.
Satan's choices are usually the opposite of God's.
I'm telling you that their occultic knowledge surpasses ours, yes. The third heaven is not higher than our two, atmo and space; it overlaps it at all points and at all times, and there are portals between here and there.
>>1040201
The opposite of this would be true, spawn of satan.
>>1040207
Really? Is there anything you can point to to substantiate your babble? Or do you want me to dance the same tango?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZGN6EKjvAo
>>1040215
he steals shit for israel and murders people in the bible constantly
>>1040226
Yes, your open mindedness is so convincing. Here, let me do a lifetime of research for you.
>>1040229
What do you think of Russia bombing ISIS?
>>1040229
It's all His, and He judged people worthy of death. And even then, to the most wicked people on earth, He gave 400 years to repent, and they did nothing but grow more wicked.
Fear Him Who can kill you and cast YOUR soul into hellfire.
Fear Him.
>>1040231
You don't need to do research. Clearly something convinced you. Point me to the nonsense that convinces a doofus like you.
Why would I need to have an open mind on bronze age fabricated religions? Is there a reason for it?
>>1040192
If you're Christian, you also believe it, retard. Unless you don't remember Genesis 2:7
>And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
We are made of dust, and the only reason we have life is from God. We came from the earth either way.
>>1040236
I'll fear him like I fear any non law abiding criminal
>>1040229
Murder is taking away someone's life by your own action.
If God says so, it's not murder because God is sovereign. He is the author of life.
God knows all sides, He knows the deepest intentions and ways of everyone. He is the perfect judge.
>>1040238
Yes, condense a lifetime of effort on my part to a post on 4chan that you can skim for a few seconds.
No thanks. You just keep thinking humans are superior in every way now to our ancestors, see how that works for you.
>>1040238
>bronze age
Evolutionist spotted.
You don't believe in Christianity because you've been brainwashed by Marxist professors.
Years of "WE EVOLVED FROM MONKEYS" drilled into your head: It creates a zombie.
>>1040240
The life came from God, the Breath of God, the Ruach Elohim, Who is life.
The evolutionist has no God, and no source of life.
>>1040242
They can only kill you. God will kill you and cast your soul into eternal flames.
Fear Him.
>>1040258
Evolution implies that man will become gods ourselves.
Sounds similar to Satan's lie in the Garden:
"and ye shall be as gods!"
>>1040257
You... don't believe in the bronze age?
>>1040267
Yup. The evolutionists follow the gospel of satan. Thousands of years later, and they fall for the very first lie ever told.
>>1040249
>Yes, condense a lifetime of effort on my part to a post on 4chan that you can skim for a few seconds.
You must be retarded to claim you can't condense something as mundane as decades of religious babbling. If the theory of special relativity can be condensed to a few sentences, whatever "effort" you efforted all over your retarded brain can be condensed too.
>No thanks. You just keep thinking humans are superior in every way now to our ancestors, see how that works for you.
What made you think I think that? Humans today are about as dumb, smart, weak or strong as humans 2000 years ago, we just have more information to go on and a better infrastructure to work with.
>>1040022
If God is perfect, he would have had no reason ton create a universe. If God were good, he would have no reason to plague us with sickness and old age. If God were just, he would not condemn us to eternal pain merely for doubting his existence.
>>1040267
No it doesn't, heck most people who believe in evolution also believe in some sort of God
>>1040022
Satan will defeat God
>>1040267
>Satan's lie in the Garden
Confirmed to be a sheep who only listens to the words of his preacher and never reads the bible himself
It was the serpent who said that, and I know that there are a lot of theories that say that Satan was the serpent and all that, but if I'm supposed to take the bible at face value like you're suggesting, then I have to conclude it was just a serpent
>>1040279
You don't seem to have any argument.
You're just shitposting and throwing ad hominems.
Where is the proof for your religion (Darwinism)?
>>1040279
Can you build a simple reflex camera from scratch?
>>1040293
Serpent in Hebrew means "wise" and "beautiful".
Who is known as being full of wisdom and beauty until he was cast out? Lucifer/Satan.
>>1040281
All false, and all moronic. Perfection and desiring relationships are not mutually exclusive; God did not plague us with sickness,death and old age; He made us perfect and immortal. And of course He's just, which is why He will not allow any crime to go unpunished.
Your Unbelief is the ONLY unpardonable sin that exists unforgiven.
>>1040292
kek
Keep dreaming, loser.
>>1040300
There's also "enchanter" in there. And while satan might be beautiful, he is a fool. There is no wisdom in him at all. He staged a coup against God, and lost it one heartbeat.
>>1040294
Glad you asked.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_45
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_common_descent
>>1040299
Oh noes, I don't have the skill to perform irrelevant tasks. Come back with evidence your goatfucking idols knew calculus or have a concept of plate tectonics.
If heaven is so good why don't we just have someone kill every baby before it sins so it can go to heaven right away
>>1040326
Can you invent calculus from scratch? Can you invent zero from scratch? The null set, anything?
>>1040327
>muh loopholes
>>1040336
Why would I have to invent shit that's already invented?
What do your challenges even have to do with anything?
>>1040327
Only a sick and twisted mind plots the murder of innocents as a good thing. Kill yourself. Seriously. Today. You've put it off too long already.
>>1040349
>murder
It's literally irrelevant and simply a transition to some perfect plane you imagined in your sycophantic little deformed head.
>>1040326
>wants a short answer for our beliefs
>doesn't give a short answer to his own beliefs
>>1040349
Wouldn't God have plotted every genocide to ever happen, since He's all knowing He would know they would occur
>>1040326
http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html
Evolution is a myth.
We did not come from monkeys.
The Earth is roughly 6000 years old.
>>1040364
knowing =/= causing things to happen
you can watch a football match with Barcelona vs some shitty club and know that Barca will win. that doesn't mean you caused them to win
>>1040357
It's literally evil.
It's literally murder.
It's literally down the river, not across the stream.
>>1040374
And chose not to prevent it. That's murder
>>1040357
>this is what psychopathic atheists actually believe
>>1040364
God knows all the evil that men would do. And woe to them by whose hand such evil is done.
>>1040380
>victim goes to heaven
>murderer goes to hell
That was easy.
>>1040392
God made people that murder. That's like purposely making a gun that shoots by itself. If that's not murder then what is
>>1040360
>short answer
Okay, I can do that too.
DNA links all animals together, from you and your wittwe pawents to you and a shroom. That alone is proof enough of common descent.
Then there's documented speciation of fruit flies and any number of other species, and human molding of species around them overall (animal domestication, wheat, bananas).
Then there's fossil evidence of animals that do not exist now, but apparently did in the past, juxtaposed with animals that exist now not being found as fossils.
Now can I hear your story of magic and horror?
The 'Great White Throne Judgment' is going to be a fascinating time.
Imagine all humans that have ever lived, facing God.
Your actions, thoughts and words told out loud for all mankind to see and hear. Alot of people are going to be embarassed, before being thrown into the lake of fire along with the Accuser and his host of demons that have troubled the world.
But for me? I have Jesus. He covered my sins. He took the punishment for me. I get to be with my heavenly Father God forever in perfect bliss.
>>1040406
>2 people made Hitler
>therefore Hitler's parents are evil and responsible
what a retarded argument
>>1040406
>I don't believe in God.
>I don't know what murder is.
>I don't know if murder is evil.
>>1040426
The parents didn't know their son would do what he did. God did.
>>1040410
>That alone is proof enough of common descent.
That alone is proof enough of a common Creator.
Look into the limitations of variation allowed by DNA for why fish can't turn into birds.
>>1040410
>c-common ancestor!
No, common designer.
There's a complete lack of a fossil record to support your theory. There should be millions of missing links and "transforming" fossils, yet there are none.
>>1040434
And God deals out the perfect justice.
Everyone gets what he deserves.
>>1040410
>speciation of fruit flies
They're flies before and after. Buzzing, crawling things.
Get back to me when they mutate a fruit fly into a blue whale.
Why has God made evolution so logical and reasonable?
>>1040420
>But for me? I have Jesus. He covered my sins. He took the punishment for me. I get to be with my heavenly Father God forever in perfect bliss.
Sweet.
Also means you won't be at the Great White Throne judgment tho bro. You'll be at the Bema Seat judgment 7 years earlier.
>>1040443
He did not, and it is not. It's a lie from the pit of hell, not from God.
>>1040443
He hasn't.
It's a delusional idea that is drilled into your head as a child in school. You grow up believing the lie.
>>1040450
Do I think evolutionists do nothing but move goalposts all night and all day? Yes, I do believe that to be the case.
>>1040420
You know, of all the shit I've heard, the whole "You have to believe in God or else you won't be saved by Jesus!" spiel is the worst and most sadistic. Jesus didn't get up there to die for all the believers of God, or all the good people, or all the Christians (no jews plox), he died for EVERYBODY'S sins. That's past, present, and future, all absolved in the eyes of the Lord, with no catch to it, and you want to take that away from them just so you can make them beg to have it back when they had it all along
>>1040457
Nice dodge, but you didn't answer the question. Try again.
>>1040458
Yes, that is true. Jesus died for everyone's sins.
So some people are going to heaven based on their belief that Jesus died for everyone's sins, and most people are going to hell having had their sins forgiven them.
Because forgiveness of sins is forgiveness of sins, not salvation.
If forgiveness of sins were salvation, there would be no Great Commission.
You don't have a sin problem. You have a dead problem. You're dead, and don't know it.
>>1040463
I have found them imminently believable, convincing, and downright correct. But then, I have a love for and a hunger for the truth.
>>1040452
>>1040456
>being this retarded
>>1040457
>evolutionists
Wow you're even stupider than those other retards.
>>1040465
Yes, I can genetically prove I came from my parents.
At no point in time can any human being prove they came from anything but human parents.
>>1040450
>i am similar to my parents
>THEREFORE MONKEYS LMAO
DNA has limits. We have so many different variations of dogs, but guess what? They're still dogs! The same "kind" of animal that a 5 year old can tell apart from any other kind of animal.
Evolution relies upon mutations.
1. There is no such thing as "beneficial" mutations
2. Bodies have self-repair systems
3. An animal with a mutation won't survive for long in the wild, how will he pass the genes?
4. What purpose does a half-wing serve?
DNA is remarkably similar to software code.
A program needs a programmer.
5. Things are getting worse, not better. Evolution violates the law of entropy
>>1040392
What if the victim was an atheist and the murderer "found Jesus" while waiting on death row? Not so just now, eh?
>worshipping the demiurge
>>1040374
>knowing =/= causing things to happen
For a human, sure. This does not apply to God, who is the architect of the universe and of human beings.
>>1040490
>gnosticism meme
Good joke.
>>1040482
Here's the only true claim about evolution:
1. Present-day organisms are descendants (with modifications) from organisms that lived earlier.
After that, "evolution" is the most slippery term in the modern language, shifting from "things change" to "this explains all life on earth".
>>1040309
>Perfection and desiring relationships are not mutually exclusive;
Yes, they are. A perfect being has no needs or desires, since if there was anything he desired but did not have, he would not be perfect.
>>1040470
>If forgiveness of sins were salvation, there would be no spreading the teachings of Jesus, who instructed us all to be men of God, to all the nations of the world
Fucking what? Even if that made any sense, God would still would want you to do what he wants and help people and shit
>>1040489
>murderer feels genuine sorrow
>repents and changes his life
>God in His merciful character, forgives him
Looks just to me.
>>1040501
>God would still would want you to do what he wants and help people and shit
If God wanted us to act in a certain way, we would know it. In b4 MUH BIBLE, this is GOD we're talking about, not Karl Marx. He has no need to put his plans in an obscure book full of nonsense and outright falsehoods, he could simply make his will manifest IF he did in fact desire we behave in a certain way.
>>1040511
That sounds just to you? Holy shit you must be a sociopath.
>>1040518
The Bible is God's Word.
It contains laws, history, poetry and the instructions for eternal life.
Bible comes from the Greek word "Biblias" or "Biblios", which means library.
The Holy Library is a collection of 66+ books written by 40 different authors over the course of thousands of years.
The Old Testament is God dealing with mankind through the nation of Israel.
The New Testament is about God coming into His own creation as Jesus. If you've seen the son, you've seen the father.
The next time He comes will not be in humility and peace, but in wrath and justice. He will come to claim His bride (the Church, all true believers, elect, saints) and wreck the unbelieving sinners who have chosen to reject Him.
>>1040522
How so?
I'm talking about genuine repentance.
The murderer would be tortured and haunted forever by what he has done (and feels sorry for).
God knows your intent and heart.
You can't fake your emotions to God.
>>1040544
>The Bible is God's Word.
Yeah no it isn't. It was written by men, and most of it was taken from pre-Hebrew cultures.
>He will come to claim His bride (the Church, all true believers, elect, saints) and wreck the unbelieving sinners who have chosen to reject Him.
I'm sure this fantasy sustains your hate-boner but it's hardly compatible with the claim that God is Love.
>>1040551
>The murderer would be tortured and haunted forever by what he has done (and feels sorry for).
People can suffer in Heaven? And that's no consolation for the murder victim, who will be burning in Hell.
Anyone can as for forgiveness and seek to make amends, but ONLY to the party he has offended. Making amends to someone else and being forgiven for it is grossly unjust.
>God knows your intent and heart.
>You can't fake your emotions to God.
God knows that we are just apes with little or no control over our emotions OR our beliefs, the idea that he would hold us accountable for such trivial things when we die is frankly laughable.
>>1040555
>It was written by men
Prophets inspired through the Holy Spirit.
The ultimate author is God.
>pre-Hebrew cultures
[citation needed]
>generic ad hominem attack
God is love.
What do you think He is delaying for? He wants none to perish. He wants us to spread the Gospel and save souls to Christ.
Sacrificing yourself for someone else is the ultimate expression of love. That's what Jesus did. He took a bullet for us. He took your sins and nailed it to the cross.
God did that all for little ol' you.
He could've just wiped out mankind with a second flood or destroy the universe in the blink of an eye, but He didn't because He loves us and wants us to be with Him.
>>1040577
>People can suffer in Heaven
I meant in emotions while he's in prison awaiting death row.
Come on you should not be that dumb.
>>1040581
>Prophets inspired through the Holy Spirit
ironic, because [citation needed]
>>1040168
>sodomy not allowed
Between two men only.
>>1040577
We are not apes, we are not animals.
God created us to have dominion over the Earth and multiply. We are made in His image.
We are morally responsible creatures and there is an objective moral standard (as C.S. Lewis talked about in his book "Mere Christianity").
The idea of relativism, pluralism and subjectivity is a product of Satan along with his New Age gnostic occult kundalini hocus pocus.
>>1040292
Nothing and no one can defeat God Almighty, silly edgelord.
>>1040489
Probably why one of the Commandments is Thou Shalt Not Murder, huh.
>>1040581
>Prophets inspired through the Holy Spirit.
>The ultimate author is God.
Again, yeah, no. It was mostly written by priests, not the prophets.
>[citation needed]
Epic of Gilgamesh.
> He wants none to perish.
Then none WILL perish. If God is Love then EVERYONE is saved.
>
Sacrificing yourself for someone else is the ultimate expression of love. That's what Jesus did. He took a bullet for us. He took your sins and nailed it to the cross.
If I were to sacrifice my life for another, that would be a significant act. But for God? Who is he trying to impress? He knows he can't actually die, that he will be raised to Heaven, that in fact he continued to live as the Father even during his "sacrifice".
>He could've just wiped out mankind with a second flood or destroy the universe in the blink of an eye
God is Love :^)
>>1040477
I'm asking you how many generations back you think this evidence breaks down, and more importantly, why.
>>1040130
spotted the jehovahs witness
>>1040499
So says you, an imperfect being. God, a perfect being, not only desires relationships with His creation, but He is relational even within Himself. Hence the Trinity. One being expressed in three relational persons.
>>1040586
>I meant in emotions while he's in prison awaiting death row.
Oh well that's clearly commensurate to the crime, aterall the guy he killed only gets eternal hellfire, a few hours of remorse followed by eternal bliss is perfectly just.
>>1040501
There would be no need; He would just have established His Kingdom right after the resurrection, and you and I would never have existed.
>>1040592
>i know better than people who had direct revelation from God
Reminder that Daniel predicted the Persian, Greek and Roman empires.
Isaiah predicted the birth and events of Jesus Christ.
>He would be from Bethlehem
>He would enter Jerusalem on a donkey
>He would be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver
>He would be pierced
How more detailed can you get? And this was written 500 years before Christ.
>>1040599
>We are not apes, we are not animals.
[citation needed]
> We are made in His image.
Your God looks like an ape? Haha that's hilarious.
>>1040522
God does not judge people based on their own righteousness, because nobody's righteousness meets God's standards of perfection.
The only way to be found righteous by God is to have the righteousness of Jesus imputed to you.
>>1040611
Epic of Gilgamesh proves that a worldwide flood happened.
From the perspective of a Satan-worshipping culture.
>>1040555
While it was written by men, those men were indwelled with and inspired by the Holy Spirit of God.
>>1040614
Nope. Why would you think that?
>>1040604
Except that's not what the commandment says. It's very clear in the Jewish original that it says "thou shalt not kill A FELLOW JEW". There's no problem killing goyim, after all God commands multiple genocides of non-Jews.
>>1040577
Everyone in heaven is a murderer.
>>1040617
Your God cannot be perfect if he has desires, this should be obvious even to a Christian.
>>1040634
Why punish everyone with the same punishment? A ten years old will burn in the same hell for lying to his mum as a murderer does.
>>1040633
>[citation needed]
your eyes
your senses
If you can't see the difference between humans and animals, you need to check a doctor.
>>1040613
You can trace my heritage and yours all the way back to Adam and Eve.
>>1040642
>Jewish original
"Jews" as an identity didn't exist when the Law was given to Moses.
You mean Israelites.
>>1040636
Noah's in it, too. His name is Utnapishtim or some such. The Salty Old Man.
>>1040632
You know who else claimed to speak to God? Jim Jones. How come you think you know better than him?
>He would enter Jerusalem on a donkey
This is the least impressive prophecy fulfilment ever. He literally waited outside until someone brought him a donkey, just to "fulfill" the prophecy. That's not how it works, guys.
>>1040642
It just says Thou Shalt Not Murder, Adolph.
>>1040642
Yeah, that's what people forget. Jews didn't consider other non-Jews the same as them.
>>1040650
God's desires are perfect.
Checkmate, Buddhist.
>>1040668
Noah is even in Chinese legends.
There are over 270 global flood stories from all sorts of ancient cultures and civilizations.
Yet atheists will refuse to admit there was a flood, because it doesn't fit their retarded Darwinian worldview.
>>1040652
Some will receive more stripes; some fewer.
I trust God to make good decisions.
>>1040634
>God does not judge people based on their own righteousness, because nobody's righteousness meets God's standards of perfection.
So because he made us imperfect, he can draw up a totally arbitrary set of rules and be justified in burning those who fall short? Why would you worship such a monster?
>>1040677
I was looking at the chinese word for Boat. It was Ship plus Eight plus People. Basically Noah and Joan, their three sons, and their three wives. Eight people.
Garden is interesting too. Dust + Breath + Two Persons + Enclosure.
Gives "Dragon" more weight imho.
>>1040681
Look up the "Hydroplate Theory".
The world's continents and archeological phenomena (such as Grand Canyon and fossil layers) can be explained with a global flood.
The idea that each layer represents a different era (which evolutionists believe) is retarded since there are trees standing upright between multiple layers.
Petrified fossils, clams in high mountains, whale bones in dry deserts, it screams that there was a catastrophical flood.
>>1040677
I am rather sure they explain that with the last ice ahe giving away.
How does Creatonists explain the diverse echology of Australia?
>>1040656
>your eyes
>your senses
Those both confirm that I am indeed an animal of some kind. There is no part of a human that is not found in some other animal, no ability of humans that is not present in a more limited form in some other animal.
>>1040681
>Even when they contradicted one another?
Never happened.
>Even when they uttered total falsehoods?
Never happened.
>Even when they rewrote ancient folk tales as history?
Never happened.
Now what? You gonna believe your bullshit without any evidence?
>>1040672
And how was "murder" defined, Schlomo?
>>1040684
He made us perfect. He made the devil perfect. Through the same mechanism, sin, rebellion, wickedness, the angel and the people became the devil and the fallen.
You keep putting responsibility where it does not belong, and you never give God any credit for what He has done.
>>1040657
Actually we can trace it WAAY further than that, all the way to single celled organisms.
>>1040614
how is what your saying different from what jehovahs witnesses teach? specifically the part where modern society is symptomatic of satan gaining control of the world again. what church/denomination/religion are you then?
>>1040700
The only reason you believe that is because of the theory of evolution.
You believe you're an animal because you want to believe you're an animal. It's part of your religion (darwinism).
>>1040677
Don't you think, maybe, just maybe, just throwing it out here, that maybe flooding is a relatively frequent occurrence in the history of human civilization so lots of different cultures have come up with various incompatible flood myths.
Doesn't that seem a teeny, tiny tad more likely than Noah fitting two of 8.7 million species on a small boat (not to mention the dinosaurs)????
Hmmmm?
>>1040675
Then they are insatiable. Why would such a creature cease creating things to worship it? We should see new races of beings popping into existence all the time.
>>1040693
Placental mammals pushing marsupials further and further away from food sources until the marsupials had no choice but to chance huge floating log and debris mats from the Flood that were at the mercy of the ocean currents.
Some obviously made it.
>>1040641
how is what your saying different from what jehovahs witnesses teach? specifically the part where modern society is symptomatic of satan gaining control of the world again. what church/denomination/religion are you then?
>>1040708
It's odd you don't know what murder is when you have committed it in this thread.
>>1040720
Nope.
Just to Adam and Eve, and you don't have any of their tissues on hand.
You are an irresponsible person.
>>1040703
>>Even when they contradicted one another?
>Never happened.
So you're just a false flagger trying to make Christians look bad. Got it.
>>1040722
The Bible says that Satan controls this world.
It is scriptural.
The wicked get rich, the humble get downtrodden.
The "sell your soul to the devil for fame" is not a joke. It's an actual thing that happens in Hollywood.
It's like you've never heard of the occult societies that control the world, and just happen to worship Satan.
God is perfect, that's how he made the universe, seeing that he has all strength and knowledge.
We are imperfect and can never become perfect but, we can attain moral perfection, through suffering, we gain morality, empthay and it makes us question God's existence, if it were obvious God were real, we wouldn't freely chose to believe based on faith, so God wouldn't have a deep relationship with us.
That is why we are flawed and suffering exists, pretty much, soul making, deeper relationship and we have an epistemic gap.
>>1040728
Same reason He rested on the seventh day. Same thing He uttered on the cross. Same reason for the triggering of the rapture.
Tetelestai.
It is finished.
>>1040741
No, I'm challenging you to give me just one example of any of those three things, and I know for sure you cannot.
>>1040726
They talk about a flood that covered the entire world.
>Noah fitting two of 8.7 million species
Hold up. He only needed 2 babies (small) of every KIND of animal. He doesn't need 2 of every different variation/species.
Experts have done the math and they say that it would work, infact you would still have room over in the ark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lktmmd7YnD8
>>1040742
>The Bible says that Satan controls this world.
Nope. The bible says that the god of this world is the devil; that does not make the devil into god, it only makes the world satan worshipers. The devil is not a free agent, at all.
The One Who Restrains is here.
Woe to you if you are here when He leaves.
>>1040691
>Grand Canyon
I don't know why you people keep using this example, because it's a terrible one. The Grand Canyon absolutely could NOT have been formed by a massive flood, the layers of rock would not dissolve into a canyon if you dumped a load of water on it and I have no clue why you people think it would.
>The idea that each layer represents a different era (which evolutionists believe) is retarded since there are trees standing upright between multiple layers.
Only Creationists have trouble understanding how these form, it's not a mystery or a problem for geologists.
>Petrified fossils, clams in high mountains, whale bones in dry deserts, it screams that there was a catastrophical flood.
No, it screams that someparts of what is now dry land was once underwater. It can't possibly suggest a global flood since the Bible tells us the flood only lasted a few months tops, whereas the layers of fossils found suggest millions of years of gradual accumulation.
>>1040731
And they never went exctint before the flood because?
>>1040760
Kent Hovind has already provided a perfectly good explanation for the forming of the Grand Canyon.
The idea that it happened over the course of millions of years is ridiculous.
Rivers do not flow upwards.
>>1040703
>>Even when they contradicted one another?
>Never happened.
How many years did Jesus' ministry last?
>Even when they uttered total falsehoods?
>Never happened.
You think everything in the Bible is literally true? Are you retarded or something?
>Even when they rewrote ancient folk tales as history?
>Never happened.
Oh so you've never read the Bible. Typical Christian.
>>1040754
>experts have worked out you can take millions of animals on a boat if you just take the babies
I hope this is bait, son.
>>1040725
>The only reason you believe that is because of the theory of evolution.
No, my own sense make this abundantly clear. The theory of evolution merely provides an explanation for this fact, that we are animals should be obvious even to the most dull witted.
>>1040740
>You are an irresponsible person.
And you're a halfwit.
>>1040775
Everything in the Bible is true.
It is the best source of ancient human history.
Do you think you're the first one to try and dismantle the Bible? It has survived hundreds of hammer blows. Many people have tried to prove it wrong and they all failed.
So what they do instead is remove evidence that supports the Bible. i.e cover up the giant Nephilim skeletons found in Peru and Egypt, and prevent creationist articles through "peer review" and academic censorship.
>>1040744
If his desires can be satisfied they are not perfect, dumb-dumb. Although I continue to maintain that a perfect being can have no desires, the idea is nonsensical.
>>1040779
The ark was a the first super tanker.
It had enough room to hold 2 of every kind of animal.
>>1040774
>Kent Hovind
Why would I care what he thinks? He's not an academic, he has no expertise in anything remotely relevant, and he's a demonstrable fucktard.
>>1040791
>Everything in the Bible is true.
Then answer my question, how long was Jesus' ministry?
>>1040783
No, you're viewing the world through evolutionist goggles.
You're seeing things that are not there. It's called confirmation bias.
http://creation.com/faith-and-facts
Look at the world without any presuppositions or assumptions, and you'll find that it supports the Bible, not evolutionism.
>>1040143
You know nothing about biology, why even shitpost?
>>1040798
>judging a book by its cover
If he's so low in your eyes, it should be easy to destroy his arguments.
I'll wait. Prove him wrong.
>>1040806
People have known we're animals for thousands of years, it's so obvious that people in widely different regions have independently arrived at this conclusion long before Darwin provided an explanation.
>>1040809
Haha oh wow you're a moron. Just google him, the internet is full of refutations of his idiocy.
>>1040808
Biology =/= evolution
You can learn and do biology without ever believing or hearing about the theory of evolution.
Just as you can watch sports without ever drinking beer.
This is a common tactic by atheists, try and pretend that evolution = science in an attempt to make the debate seem like it's religion vs science, when it's religion vs religion (two different worldviews that seek to explain origins of life).
>>1040794
A modern super tanker isn't anywhere near big enough to hold two of every kind of animal and Noah's ark (pretending it ever existed) was tiny compared to modern day supertankers.
>>1040817
>People have known we're animals for thousands of years
Is this bait? The idea that we are apes is just 200 years old.
People have known God exists for thousands of years. Try to weasel your way out of that one.
>Just google him
Ad populum logical fallacy.
Atheists hate Kent Hovind and spread disinformation about him because he's exposing and destroying their shitty theory.
He makes solid arguments for creation that anyone can understand, that is why he's so dangerous for the foaming angry evolutionists.
If he's wrong, why haven't you refuted any of his arguments? Shouldn't it be easy?
You can't because you know he's right.
>>1040791
heh, kid. 2/10 bait.
>>1040818
Modern biology is built on evolution. Physics and geology also disprove a literal reading of the OT without even needing to mention biology.
Religion may be compatible with science but taking a Young Earth Creationist position is denying the whole of science and the scientific method.
>>1040818
The more you post, the more apparent it is that you know absolutely nothing and just want to shit-post.
Evolution is a biological process, arising from processes which are ubiquitous throughout living systems. If you have "learned" biology with no mention of evolution, or at least the mechanisms that underlie it, you haven't actually learned shit.
>>1040742
you mind telling me what type a christian you are? for example, you dont sound like a modern catholic or protestant. they dont focus on satan that much.
>>1040760
You believe the Grand Canyon is the result of a little water and a long time.
It isn't.
It's the result of a LOT of water over a very little time.
Those layers are mudslides. They are moving horizontally. They are not accretions from the top. They were not the layers of the earth.
For proof of this. go look at what Mt. St. Helen's did when it blew. It created a stratified column of rock that you would swear was millions of years old by your reckoning, yet it was made within months.
Sedimentary rock. Sediment. Flood.
>>1040772
They found enough to eat and multiplied. What kind of a question is that?
>>1040823
Yeah, confirmed for not knowing about the size, scope or departments of the ark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lktmmd7YnD8
3 hours documentary that proves the flood
>>1040842
No it's not.
Kent is a biologist (knows more about the human body than you do) and doesn't believe in evolution.
>Physics and geology also disprove a literal reading of the OT
How so? You make a claim without any evidence or proof.
There's a difference between scientific method and pop-sci/pseudo-science.
Bill Nye and Black Science Guy is not real science. It's Reddit-tier fedora garbage.
>>1040834
>Atheists hate Kent Hovind and spread disinformation about him because he's exposing and destroying their shitty theory.
No, thinking humans find him ridiculous, no-one hates such an obviously mentally impaired person.
>The idea that we are apes is just 200 years old.
Did I say apes, or animals Oh wait, it was animals. Why are you Christians all such shameless liars? The whole pack of you are worse than niggers.
>>1040846
Evolution is a fairy tale that has been debunked hundreds of times.
>>1040847
That's because the modern church is lukewarm.
Preachers like Charles Lawson or Chuck Missler are a golden gem, last of their kind.
>>1040851
>It's the result of a LOT of water over a very little time.
No, it can't possibly be. If you dump a load of water on rock, it doesn't magically form a canyon, it just pours off of it. It's such a terrible example for your ideas that I can't fathom why you keep using it, it's like you people enjoy being ridiculed.
>>1040860
Literally every single hate against Hovind is always just that, hate and ad hominem attacks.
Look up any debate of Kent Hovind vs evolutionists, and he always wins and leaves evolutionists speechless.
Your theory is bankrupt and dead. The only thing that keeps evolutionism afloat is government funding in order to indoctrinate children into your monkey death cult.
>>1040436
that's because fossilization is relatively rare
>>1040858
>Kent is a biologist
No, "doctor" Kent Hovind has NO qualifications of any kind, his "degrees" are all from unaccredited diploma mills.
>>1040883
>still ad hominem attacks
I'm still waiting for you to refute any of his arguments.
>>1040806
No, you're viewing the world through creationist goggles.
You're seeing things that are not there. It's called confirmation bias.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
Look at the world without any presuppositions or assumptions, and you'll find that it supports the Scientific method, not Christianity.
>>1040806
>Look at the world without any presuppositions or assumptions, and you'll find that it supports the Bible
What makes you so sure that you're not suffering from confirmation bias, that you're not the one looking at the word with presuppositions and assumptions?
>inb4 MUH FAITH
>>1040862
You're genuinely disillusional.
Though I generally consider myself Abrahamic, I find it hard to identify with most """""""""""""Christians.""""""""""""""
>>1040889
>wickedpedia
No thanks.
>>1040858
Here you go...
http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/uni_age.html
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-science-figured-out-the-age-of-the-earth/
Squealing about fedoras, Reddit etc etc isn't going to help, no matter how hard you squeal.
>>1040892
But you have faith that the scientific method works!
>>1040872
>leaves evolutionists speechless.
Yes, his total ignorance and incoherence does tend to amaze people.
And the idea that I have to refute such a clown when hundreds of people have already done so is just too cute.
>>1040905
>>1040892
Because I've been a militant atheist evolutionist just like you were.
But then I grew up and stopped being edgy.
I've seen the world through both sides and honestly the Biblical worldview makes much more sense, especially with the whole "Illuminati" and occult things today.
>>1040731
How did mammals end up in other places cut off from europe by sea, like America japan and the brittish isles? How did humans get over to Amerika?
>>1040775
Three and a half, counted by the MAXIMUM number of passovers mentioned in the gospels. Because, see, if you observed three passovers, you have also observed one passover, and two passovers. Not a contradiction.
Yes, everything properly in the Word of God is true, as it is inspired by the Holy Spirit of God. Also, anything that purports to demonstrate something in the bible is false it itself proven false.
I've read the bible many times, and heard it many times.
>>1040899
Why is it bad?
>>1040886
He calls himself a doctor when he isn;t one. That's not an ad hom, that speaks directly to his trustworthiness. The man is a convicted fraudster and proven liar, if he's the best you've got then you really are grasping.
http://www.newgeology.us/presentation32.html
Evolution is a myth.
There is zero scientific evidence for it.
/thread
>>1040866
its kind of odd you are avoiding naming your denomination. lawson is baptist and missler is evangelical, correct? so youre one of those?
>>1040779
Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study
You can buy it on Amazon.com, if you have $15. They figured it for 50,000 different kinds of animals, even though about 20,000 different kinds of animals can account for everything we have today.
>>1040905
Faith is not confidence. People have confidence in the scientific method because it provides masses of evidence that it works, people have to have faith in God because they have no evidence.
>>1040788
My half-wit has you spun out. What does that say about you?
>>1040793
Yes, keep thinking Budda knew more about God than God knows about God, and keep thinking "desire is bad".
>>1040798
But you believe Darwin, with only a degree in Theology, who called the human cell "simple", and "like a bag of salt".
>>1040916
He has said several times that he doesn't care what you call him. Call him Bubba or whatever.
He just wants you to refute his arguments. Can you prove him wrong? He makes very good points that you evolutionists never seem to take on.
You always attack Kent, but never the arguments.
You know what that smells like? Insecurity and denial. You know he's speaking the truth.
>fraudster
Haeckel was a fraud.
A founding father of evolutionism.
Darwin was a fraud.
He himself admitted to his theory being a phantasy, and him delving into the occult.
As for Kent, it's called political imprisonment.
>You disagree with the establishment?
>Silence him!
You know, it's the same thing that would happen in Soviet Russia or Nazi Germany.
God forbid someone defend Biblical facts and expose satanic lies.
>>1040808
Studied it at the uni level.
Next lie?
>>1040931
But there is no evidence for macro evolution, when ever scientists find anything that doesn't work with evolution, they explain it away like the fresh dinosaur flesh!
>>1040846
Everything real is covered by natural selection, adaptation, breeding, and genetic mutations.
There is no need for "evolution"; it brings nothing to the party but a false religion.
>>1040941
I realise this may surprise you, but evolution does not rest on Darwin alone. Everything we have discovered since Darwin, from the millions of fossils found since then to the code of life locked into every cell in every animal confirms his idea, and nothing refutes it.
>>1040909
>I've seen the world through both sides
So have I. Stop pretending that your conclusion is the only valid one.
You can't just say that something "makes much more sense". If you want someone who disagrees with you to believe that the thing that makes less sense to them in fact makes more sense, you have to take the time to illustrate that to them.
Do that.
What neutral intellectual tools can we use in order to judge them both fairly?
>>1040905
We have empirical evidence that "the scientific method" successfully yields the results that we want it to. If we weren't successfully learning more about how the world works, we wouldn't be able to successfully manipulate it and predict things.
If you think "science" is helping us learn "THE Truth", then you don't know what science is. Science generally deals in rigorous confirmation through falsification, not truth.
Have you never looked into the Philosophy of Science?
>>1040942
>He himself admitted to his theory being a phantasy, and him delving into the occult.
[citation eeded]
>>1040942
He is a PROVEN LIAR AND FRAUDSTER. He has no credibility, AT ALL. Simply by citing him at all, you make your position seem ridiculous.
>>1040871
There used to be 6000+ feet of water on the earth.
It moved things. Like mountain ranges. Just look to the east of the Grand Canyon; there's an enormous reservoir that broke, about 4600 years ago.
>>1040958
>millions of fossils
Zero transitional fossils.
Zero missing links.
No answer to the "Cambrian explosion".
>>1040950
>macro evolution
This isn't a thing. Evolution works on the scale of genes, it's always "micro".
Why are we assuming that god knows humans exist? If we assume that the first cause argument is correct, that for our universe to be logically sound we need to have a God-like creature, why would said God-like creature care or even know that humans exist? We are just a byproduct.
>>1040889
But you're not seeing things through monkey lenses, huh.
>>1040894
Then you are no friend of, or son of, Abraham.
>>1040961
I doubt you know more about the world than I do.
Try starting with Bill Cooper.
>>1040961
>Philosophy of Science
not that guy but, what is the Philosophy of Science?
>>1040966
ALL fossils are transitional, idiot.
>Zero missing links.
Oh you mean apart from the hundreds we've found?
