Did Bodhidharma historically exist or was he a Shaolin folklore?
Mu
He probably was real.
>>1028372
He most likely existed. There were shitloads of Indo-Iranian Buddhist missionaries streaming into China from places like Khotan or the Kushan Empire.
What is myth is that he invented Shaolin Kung-Fu.
>>1030363
Bodhidharma's origins is unknown save for the fact that he was a foreigner. Earliest source says he's Iranian. Other sources says he's from India and he may have passed through Indo-Iranian held territory to get to China.
white people pretty much invented Buddhism.
you're welcome chinks
>>1030721
Chinks fixed it though since it was seen as pushing people into asocial basement-dwelling hermits as opposed to the ideal filial pro-community types.
And that version is now the most popular version of Buddhism.
>>1030746
>white man invents shaolin kung fu and teaches chinks how to not be betas
>basement dwelling
ya nah
>>1030721
>Stole buddhism from pooinloos
>gets cucked and destoryed by arabs and turkroaches in central asia
Tell me about it
>>1030762
Like what said >>1030363, he didn't invent Shaolon Kung Fu. The Monks did.
In Imperial China, a good number of people lived in remote rural countrysides. This makes it hard to police the law in those areas as garrisons of soldiers cannot afford reach them lest they overstretch their army. Therefore the Chinese were empowered to own their own weapons (sans "military weapons" like crossbows and later on, bombs and guns) and police themselves, with the government sending a single Judge Dredd-style officer called a prefect to oversee a bunch of villages and make sure armed village posses do things legal, lead this posse into police actions, and act as judge, jury, and executioner to captured bandits.
Well, the Monks in their monasteries are part of this system. And sitting on places well stocked with food and money these made them targets. So almost at the get go the Monks had their own militia. And this wasn't limited to Buddhist Monks, Taoist Monks did so as well (see, Mt. Wudang style Kung Fu). Maybe if a Christian Monastery managed to set up in China during the Nestorian's glory days in that country, they wouldve as well. Nestorian Kung Fu? Kek.
What made them special compared to peasant posses is that Monks did little else outside meditation and menial work. So their regulary martial arts drills became paramilitary to the point that they could & have volunteered in wars (Pirate war, famously).
Also that "MONKS USE BLUNT WEAPONS AND FISTS TO NOT HURT NOBODY" is yet another myth. These guys will happily shank you with a servicable sword or spear if you attacked their Monasteries.
Pic related. Movies popularized Shaolin Kung Fu. But historically, Shaolin Monks were known as dangerous fighters of the rattan shield & sword style of swordsmanship.
>>1028372
Tell me more about this guy
>>1030762
>being known for sitting in front of a wall for years
>not basement dwelling
>>1031439
>indian buddhist monk
>travels to china
>meets emperor Wu, also a buddhist
>Wu asks: What merit do I get for building temples, copy sutras etc.
>Bodhidharma: No merit whatsoever shithead
>Wu: Why though?
>Bodhidharma: Doing things for merit is impure
>Wu: Then what's buddhism all about?
>Bodhidharma: Vast emptiness, nothing holy.
>Wu: Who is standing in front of me
>Bodhidharma: I don't even know, lad
>Bodhidharma leaves
>Stares at a wall for 9 years
>Some say his legs fell off, because of all the sitting
>Some say he once fell asleep, which made him so angry he tore his eye lids off and threw them at the ground, which in turn created the first tea plant
>Huike appears, cuts his arm off to demonstrate how urgent it is to see bodhidharma
>Huike: PLS PACIFY MY MIND
>Bodhidharma: Bring me your mind and I'll pacify it
>Huika: I can't find shit though
>Bodhidharma: There, it's pacified.
>the end
And that's how bodhidharma started chan buddhism. After Huike came a continous lineage of 4 other people, up to Huineng.
After that Chan started to branch into different lineages, all tracing them back to huineng, who had a direct lineage to bodhidharma, who is said to have a direct lineage to the buddha himself.
>>1031650
Is this where all those mindnumbing fucking Koans came from?
>>1031687
They were invented around 600 years after bodhidharma.
As far as I understand, they were just a means to make it easier to teach masses of students, especially students who weren't that interest in zen in the first place (young japanese guys were sent into zen monastries by there parents to learn discipline).
It's sad that the only surviving zen sects are either mind pacification religion (aka soto) and shitty koan zen (aka rinzai).
The chinese classics (mazu, huangbo, linji, nanquan etc.) were really great and interesting. But after linji (the japanese call him rinzai) shit went downhill.
>>1031687
The koans aren't even that bad actually, the gateless gate (which is a collection of 48 koans and commentaries) is really worth a read.
What's bad about it is that they built a really stiff system around them, which goes completely against the original nature of the chan teachings.
I also wouldn't call them mind numbing, most are really clever if you get them.
There are however, really shitty koans.
"What's the sound of one hand clapping" being the prime example
is is true he bored holes into a cave's wall with his eyes
>>1030818
>These guys will happily shank you with a servicable sword or spear if you attacked their Monasteries.
Even without that actually. Shaolin has a pretty... "normal" military history where combatants happily pillaged and murdered non-combatants. Not surprisingly the majority of the monks in Shaolin for the most part of its history weren't really monks at all.
For those interested in the subject Meir Shahar's book The Shaolin Monastery is a pretty good one.
>>1031766
>mind pacification religion
wat
possibly, but there is little hard evidence for any of the folklore and myths about him
and the idea that he brought zen to china is also a myth, zen clearly developed in china, so there's that
