Which war was more "Hell"-ish?
The Vietnam War vs. The Great War
vietnam was hotter, so vietnam
For Amerifats, Vietnam surely since they did jack shit in WW1
But for the countries that really fought in WW1, Vietnam was a MLP episode
Only a slack jawed COD amerifat millennial would think that any war can compare in terror with The Great War.
The trench battles of Verdun outrank any Vietnamese sweaty jungle brawl by several orders of magnitude, and it is an insult to the hundreds of thousands that perished to try to rank it up against the Vietnam war, period.
Tet was terrible, no doubt. But Verdun was Hell
I'm assuming the application of "Hell-ish" is applied only to the winner.
In which case, Vietnam is probably the last Hell-ish war. For the losers, any war is Hellish.
>>1020954
Wew. Americunt.
>>1020954
How is this even a question?
>>1021055
30 years war was worse.
>>1020954
Vague question. Learn how to ask questions. Polite sage for retardation, and also the fact that this thread happens at least every day.
>>1021172
Well memed
The 30 Years War was awful for civilians (even though it wasnt as bad as some theaters of WW2), but for soldiers conditions were FAR from as bad as WW1
>>1020954
I dunno they both look pretty happy to me.
>>1020954
Vietnam, because sinners go to hell. The Great War may of seemed like hell on earth, but it was not eternal damnation
WW1 no question. Nobody had any idea what they were doing and it was warfare on an industrial scale. Vietnam was shitty but WW1 was just a giant meatgrinder
>>1020985
>For Amerifats, Vietnam surely since they did jack shit in WW1
The AEF casualty rate was far higher than what was suffered in Vietnam despite them only being in France for a couple months. WWI was a lot nastier for the US.
>But for the countries that really fought in WW1, Vietnam was a MLP episode
I don't know what yuropeon country you're from but your butthurt is obvious and you should know the casualties suffered by Vietnam exceeded that of France in WWI despite being several times smaller.
>>1020980
lol
>>1021530
>casualties suffered by Vietnam exceeded that of France in WWI despite being several times smaller.
Source?
Great War.
Both sides sat in a trench filled with mud, blood, corpses, rats, disease with the ever threat of poison gas and the constant barrage of artillery hammering your position. You are on a knife edge, any one of the shells could be your end. One soldier described it as being tied to a post while a man with a bat smacks it above your head for hours on end, edging closer and closer to you.
Then, you are told to run towards certain death when the officer blows his whistle and are then shot by your own brothers if you refuse.
To make matters worse, you're fighting against other Europeans, most likely young boys.
War is hell, but the Great War was the worst of all.
>>1021639
From a PTSD standpoint trench life, bad as it may have been, at least maintains a fairly constant level of stress and anxiety for the individual. When they weren't going over the top they lived in the dugouts and, while gas and artillery were surely frightening, there was at least some sense of normalcy and these threats could be anticipated.
For the soldier in Vietnam who spent his nights in the relatively safe confines of a base, his leave in cities that learned to cater to his wants and needs, and his days patrolling in dense jungle for an enemy he almost never saw, being used as bait by his superiors to lure out an enemy that would inflict nearly 50% of casualties with booby traps, his stress levels varied widely, something we understand now is the catalyst for PTSD.
As if that wasn't bad enough, now apply the side-effects of the horrible 'Body Count' doctrine; units punished when failing to meet their body count quotas, forced to perform longer and therefore more dangerous patrols as a result, forced to go and return on foot rather than by helicopter, a privilege reserved for units who could make body count. Extra rations, beer, and leave awarded for those who got kills and restricted from those who didn't.
A doctrine and system that all but assured your willingness to kill -indiscriminately- had a clear and direct effect on the survival of you and your buddies, it's no wonder Vietnam created so many cases of trauma. At least WW1 was sold as some noble knightly war and those who partook believed, at least initially, that there was glory to be had.
>>1021965
WW1 would be hell to live through, Vietnam would be hell to live with.
>>1021530
Vietnam suffered between 400000-1.1 million dead (with relatively insignificant civilian casualties), from a population of roughly 20 million. France suffered 1.3 million military and another 300000 civilian deaths, from a population of roughly 38 million.
France had higher absolute casualties, and was less than twice the size. Vietnam suffered more proportionally, but not by such a large margin.
Obviously, the Americans got off far more easily each time.
This is pretty cool, declassified intelligence document with interviews with Germans after WW1 re: opinions on Americans, both negative and positive.
https://fas.org/irp/agency/army/wwi-soldiers.pdf
>>1020954
WW1 wasn't that bad. The only reason it's thought of as a bad war is because the middle class fought it for the first time.
>>1022568
Yeah, not because people sat in holes getting hundreds of thousands, sometimes a million plus artillery shells at them
idk, no ones been to neither or both so i guess we know fuck all. next question
WW1, and it's not even close.
>>1021244
Is "hell-ish" really that difficult for you?
>>1020954
Both were terrible, can we just stop trying to label which one was "worst"?
Both wars saw very young men with really no previous combat experience go into a meat grinder. Both faced evolution's in modern combat that would change the course of military theory permanently and both saw high rates of soldiers suffer from PTSD and various other psychological issues. The only real difference however is that the soldiers in VIetnam were shunned and hated by their own neighbors and friends when they came back, and were labeled as baby killers and all around evil. Just because they had gone off to war for their country for an idea they may not even had a real concept of understanding about.
WW1 was the worst to fight in, Vietnam was the worst to come back home from and live the rest of your life with.
Great War was a whole new flavor of hell.
>>1022250
>america having """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""good"""""""""""""""""""""" soldiers in WWI
The only reason they were impressed was because they forgot what it was like to fight against fresh faced young lads from non-war torn nations.
gee i wonder.
farmer armed with 'pitchforks' mowed down by a superior army vs all of the most advanced countries waging a new sort of hell on the entirety of a continent. do you have anymore bait my fat friend?
>>1023033
I think WW1 was worse, but it's hard to quantify that kind of horror anyway.
I heard a story about soldiers in WWI being able to get used to the timing of enemy artillery. They said they could set their watch to it, enough to know exactly when and where it might land. More experienced soldiers could look tough by standing near it without being bothered.
There's another story that on Christmas day both sides stopped fighting to have a nice evening in no man's land. I've heard numerous other anecdotes that it was much more civil than others described.
And yeah Vietnam wasn't that bad if you were in camp, but if you're out in the shit, never knowing what kind of attack may come from an endless dark jungle. That can be pretty terrifying too.
Both wars were awful in different ways, you can't compare them and say one was better or worse than the other. They were both terrible, and happened in different cultural attitudes and climates back home.
>all this WW1-was-constant-living-in-frontline-trenches-being-bombed-all-day-erry-day-also-living-in-shit-and-marching-into-machineguns memery
jeez
>>1022830
that is one vintage meme you've got going there.
>>1022998
>euros this ass blasted at the ability to remain honorable in war
It's almost sad how some Europeans are completely unable to give America even a little credit.
Just as bad as the retards who think America did everhthing.
>>1023063
Medal of Honor: Front Line
Remember those Vietnam war movies you watched like Platoon and AN and that scene from Forest Gump where the jungles were pretty sparse and there was plenty of room between trees and shrubbery for men to patrol through? Its all a lie, a real jungle in Vietnam is so dense and dark its like walking through a cave sometimes. I was there last summer, christ was it claustrophobic as fuck.
WW1 was definitely bloodier and more violent but I think I'd be more scared in Nam.
>reading about VC booby traps
pls no. I don't wanna watch half my squad die like that. I don't wanna die like that.
>>1023033
Your ignoring the fighting along the DMZ in Nam. Because it could not be crossed it was a static line of defense, like trench warfare, and fought against regular NVA with artillery batteries behind the DMZ, zeroed in on said static lines.
>>1023551
>pls no. I don't wanna watch half my squad die like that. I don't wanna die like that.
Then you better start killing civilians for body count! If ya don't then no chopper ride home, youll have to walk back to base on the same trails with mines and punji sticks that have already killed several of your friends! C'mon man, they're just gooks.
>>1020954
First world cup
>>1021530
>le am most hurtest
You americans are ridiculous. Open an history book rather than jumping on people about how poor little american boys suffered so much. You're the one analy blasted here hun.
World war I was litterally one huge meat grinder with almost no hope to get out of this mess intact.
>>1023033
>armer armed with 'pitchforks' mowed down by a superior army
except when they were supplied and trained by the soviets and chinese, and given top of the line equipment like MiG-21's.
>>1021151
Off yourself
WW1 due to the constant shelling and living conditions
miles and miles of green fields turned into >>1023033
>>1023053
the reality of being hit in the stomach with a shell fragment and knowing you would have nothing to look forward to but hours upon hours of excruciating pain and then death.
At least the Muricans could look forward to asian hookers and the comfort of knowing you have good medevac if you need it.
>>1021983
WW1 would have been worse to live with and after
mostly because if you were German or Russian you would have to live through civil war and broken states, same shit if you were a turk/greek and had the enemy raping your families hometown directly after peace
WW1 by a wide, wide margin.
As wars go, Vietnam was *relatively* easygoing for U.S. troops. What made it unusual was what people at home were able to see. It was the first war oblivious American civilians couldn't pretend was a glorious adventure.
If there had been uncensored news footage of WW1 battles, history would probably have gone extremely differently.
>>1024237
>If there had been uncensored news footage of WW1 battles, history would probably have gone extremely differently.
Well there is no need to single out WW1 in that sentence, is there.
http://namhoaivu.blogspot.co.nz/2013/05/cu-chi-tunnels-steel-land.html
>>1024237
>If there had been uncensored news footage of WW1 battles, history would probably have gone extremely differently.
No surviving copies exist.
>>1024158
>WW1 would have been worse to live with and after
I wasn't talking about post war circumstances, that's why I didn't bring up the treatment of Vietnam vets returning home. My point was the direct consequences of serving, most likely against your will, in Vietnam and being forced into moral and ethical quandaries no doughboy would have to face, left men with traumas wholly unique to a war in which your ability to indiscriminately kill women and children had a direct link to both your individual chances of survival and that of your friends.
It's the reason men like Sergeant Roy Bumgarner, a man who by the account of his own men regularly killed civilians including children, a man who was court-martialed, tried, convicted, fined, and demoted -more than once- still has men who will stand and defend his character, simple because he's the reason they survived.
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Get the fuck out amerifat
>>1023411
This
Its either one extreme or the other on this fucking board. You have the yuropoors that are so afraid of acknowledging any contribution by the US and then you have the queers from /pol/ who are brainwashed into not seeing and fault my Americans.
>>1023238
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_truce Christmas truce was a pretty big thing.
Not even a question, as an amerifat WW1 trench warfare literally defined hell on earth.
>>1020980
This, I'd rather be a soldier on the frigged tundra than in the damp hot jungle.
>>1020954
At least the soldiers in Vietnam weren't forced to eat rats in order to survive.
>>1021983
Yep, this fella is having a blast since he came back from the trenches unscathed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Jll9_EiyA
>>1022998
This
American's came late to the war and were spared the years of grinding warfare that sapped the morale of all parties involved. There's also the fact that despite their enthusiasm the first several months the AEF arrived at the front American soldiers were dying at an alarming rate because they completely ignored the lessons of trench warfare learned by the French and the British
>>1027520
I heard in a podcast that soldiers serving in Verdun didn't have water to drink because the supplies and the people bringing them would get blown up before making it to the front. In order to survive, the soldiers drank rain water that built up in shell craters. This water had a greenish color because of the toxic materials used in the shells, and sometimes was greasy because of the dead bodies decomposing in it. And yet they fucking drank it out of despair.
>>1023411
It's because Americans belittle every European country's contributions. Americans love to take credit for winning both world wars, and I say this as an American. I'm sure people are ignorant in Europe too, but I have these first hand experiences and they disgust me.
>>1020954
Vietnam was way worse. Hot, damp, thick jungle unlike what most of the men had ever seen, the level technology had progressed. Its almost no comparison.
Vietnam was obviously worse for this cat
>>1023365
t-thanks bro...
>>1027883
And the war in the Pacific during WW ll was air conditioned.
>>1027988
Vietnam was way worse for the soldier due to how much lead could actually fly in a given minute though
>>1027956
full kek
>>1027780
Hate to break it to you but that film is fake.
>>1027988
the thread is about ww1 though
>>1021639
you were only in the trench for a few days then you were rotated behind the lines. IF you were on the allies side, you got better food than if you were at home with sausages and good chefs.
Because of the British blockade, germans could enjoy sawdust bread, kek
>>1021055
Only an anglo would think that any battle in the "great" war can compare to the Rattenkrieg, Berlin, uprisings in Warsaw (including ghetto uprising), guerilla in Yugoslavia, cargnage at the Omaha and Point-du-Hoc, etc. etc.
Vietnam was waiting for the sudden element of fear and when it arrived it was very sharp and short
WW1 was years of constant hell
Dont really think you can compare the two.
>>1029439
>fighting for 6 hours on a beach where 3500 died is worse than repeating that battle with more death coming your way for 5 years, every day.
>>1030106
Vietnam would damage your psyche, WW1 would tear your soul out and leave a void.
>>1029439
>cargnage at the Omaha and Point-du-Hoc, etc. etc.
Amerifat detected
WW1 was this x10 all day everyday
>>1022830
>tfw both these wars just made things worse for everyone
>>1020980
But ww1 had battles in arid climates as well.
>>1026801
Are you for real? I'd take hot sun and humid air over deep snowfall and the cold any day.
>>1020954
vietnam hade them sneaky vietcong
http://www.5rar.asn.au/weapons/boobytraps.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%E1%BB%A7_Chi_tunnels
i would rather be a rifle man on the west front then a tunnle rat in vietnam
>>1029325
who ever said hell was hot has never been stuck in the cold
altho infections and diseases love the hot climate its still a fair trade compared to being freezing all the time
>>1029439
Except I'm not an anglo, you imbecile.
You are just making it perfectly clear that your understanding of WW1 is hardly rudimentary.
Please, stop embarrassing yourself(and the US education system).
>>1026801
When was the last time hot weather single-handedly defeated the world's most powerful army of a given era?
>>1030225
Bro your probably the only anon I know who would rather be stuck in -40 degree temps on tundra instead of relaxing on a bungalow in Nam. Getting sick on the battlefield today is not so much of a big deal as it used to be cause Antibiotics. Besides lung and heart diseases are much worse in cold weather.
>>1030213
"The Punji stick or Punji stake is a type of booby trapped stake. It is a simple spike, made out of wood or bamboo, generally placed upright in the ground. Punji sticks are usually deployed in substantial numbers"
"Punji sticks were sometimes deployed in the preparation of an ambush. In the preparation of these stakes, the stake itself would be sharpened and, in some cases, rubbed with toxic plants, frogs or even feces, to cause infections in the wounded enemy. Soldiers lying in wait for the enemy to pass would deploy punji sticks in the areas where the surprised enemy might be expected to take cover, thus, soldiers diving for cover would impale themselves"
>>1030285
well bro i was agreeing with you, also not the guy you where originally talking to
i would take the heat over the cold any day
>Getting sick on the battlefield today is not so much of a big deal as it used to be cause Antibiotics
infections migth not be a big deal anymore ,altho having diarrhea for several weeks while you are in a active combat zone migth not be a walk in the park it sure as hell beats losing your toes to frostbite
>>1027866
>every European country's contributions
They had none
>>1030309
Oh yeah I though you were that other guy. As for diarrhea Pepto pills work wonders. Also food kitchens today are individualized which prevents the spread of infection like e colli ect. Diseases in the military is not really a factor.
>>1030297
sneaky vietcong are sneaky
>>1020954
Both wars were probably viewed as the worst war ever waged by their participants.
>>1025198
Got any more source about this?
>>1030314
well in the eras stated in the OP's these things where still a major issue
specially when someone decided to smear this with shit
WWI lasted 5 years and caused 10 times the losses of Vietnam, 'nuff said.
I'm still surprised at the fact that America lost in Vietnam. Britain had the same war earlier in Malay but they actually managed to win. What gives?
>>1030353
Vietnam gave us good music and the Punisher
I suppose it depends on what you think is better:
Waiting in a trench full of corpses with no food waiting for the next poison gas barrage or next shell to kill you and all of your friends
or
Being stuck in the middle of a massive, hot jungle full of crazy ape people, worried that every time you take a step you might step on a trap or get shot by someone in a tree who has been watching you for 3 hours
Both sound pretty hellish to me.
>>1030357
Because the Malayan Insurgency did not have the full backing of Maoist China nor the Soviets who were showing willingness escalate the war in behalf of the communist insurgents.
Furthermore Malayan rebels weren't an independent country. NV was.
tl;dr Comparing the Malayan Insurgency with the Vietnam War is pretty stupid. The Americans did not lose the Guerilla war aspect of Vietnam.
>>1030375
Vietnam wasn't too bad. Even Korean war was alot worse having to fend off massive Chinese wave attacks. Being stuck on a boat was alot better you basically got to sail up and down patrolling shit with alot better weaponry then the Vietcong had. Compared to WW2 or WW1 Vietnam was a cakewalk.
This is the most autistic thread I've seen on /his/ in a while, and that's saying something.
Both were fucked in different ways, I don't think any sane man would come back from either without being broken in some way.
>>1030447
WW1 was still worse though
