Felicem diem natalem Roma!
Let's have a thread about the greatest empire the world has ever seen on its birthday
>Greekfags fuck off
>>101946
Senātus Populusque Rōmānus. Happy birthday to the greatest empire to rule Europe. Also it is incredible that Rome stood for as long as it did.
>>1019460
Around Germanics, panic
How did Rome provide for itself? Large villas that used many slaves for resources? Was the system even effective?
>>1020319
I don't think the germans were really that much of a threat. Rome had issues with them due to their doctrine of low fortification in the empire.
>>1020751
North African and Egyptian grain.
>>1020792
Not just wheat, everything anon.
>>1020751
What do you mean? They just imported it.
>>1020751
Rome was incredibly mercantile, they conquered people and took their shit then used said shit to pay for the shit they needed and wanted. So when they ran out of places to conquer they eventually found it hard to provide for themselves, leading to its collapse.
>>1020825
Thats not why it collapsed at all. By the time they were that big they owned enough resources and subjects to produce what they wanted.
What you're getting into there is more about how the Roman spirit declined through centuries of relative peace.
>>1020812
But how was it done? Free labor providing taxes on service? How was the tax assessed etc?
>>1020825
I don't think it nessecarily collapsed from that, but there seemed to be some demographic transition which threatened the urban society they existed on it would seem. I'm thoroughly confused why southern france for example was only sparsely settled.
>>1020835
I've always thought about that. Why Stilcho for example let Honorius walk over him and take the empire to collapse. Or why no one stood up and reformed the system?
>>1019460
Can you guys recomend any good rome docs?
Celts > Goths > Romans
>>1020989
>barbaroi
>better than anybody
>>1019460
>>1020989
>Implying this series of paintings is about the Romans
>Implying the American artist didn't just make a generic ancient empire.
>>1020939
The Romans that fought Carthage and the Romans that let the empire fall had around 700 years between them. Very different people by that point. Although interestingly the problems which caused the fall were seeded 600 years earlier.
>>1019460
How did the people of Rome the city itself make their wages?
There don't seem to be a lot of jobs for 1 million people in the 2nd century AD
>>1021010
If theres people then theres jobs
Service industry
>>1020319
Around Gauls? Kill'em all!
Around Punics? Remember to ruin it!
Around Jews? Don't worry, they'll lose
>>1020835
Yes but all those years of peace led theme to live decadently, listing for Persian dye and Chinese silk the Romans dug themselves into such a trade deficit that the could not effectively support and defend the empire. Then when they needed to defend themselves, they had to rely on germanic mercenaries, who were not loyal or as competent as the Legions.
Why did Rome fall?
>>1022273
Because of Rome.
>>1019460
ROMA VICTRIX
O
M
A
V
I
C
T
R
I
X
>>1022273
Victrix causa Diis placuit, sed victa Catoni.
The hand of God was heavy against the Romans.
>>1022229
>Rome fell because it was decadent
>germanic mercenaries were incompetent
So many cliches in one post
Decadence is only a valid argument in terms of local rich guys with power caring more about themselves than the good of the once sacred Empire. You literally had them letting the barbarians to pass through so they wouldn't lose their men and riches in inevitable pillaging that would occur.
Something like that would be absolutely REEEEE earlier, let alone sometimes in the late Republic. The large empire brought stronger local communities and thats just what always happens.
>Roma Invicta
>>1022475
Their luster for pointless luxuries surely had a large detriment on their economy. Also, those German mercenaries were not as effective as the traditional legion, and far less loyal regardless.
>>1022469
Fuck off christfag
Pagan Rome best Rome
>>1019460
I wonder how the people of Rome during the middle ages felt walking between the ruins of a long lost and glorious civilization. I find it incredibly saddening.
>>1019460
Ooga booga where the Roman women at?
That hill in the background tho
>>1024406
No, shitty economic policies had a large detriment on their economy.
Also Germanic soldiers saved the Romans several times.
>>1025121
fucking romanticists
>>1019460
>>Greekfags fuck off
Except for Cato, I don't think any Romans would agree with you on that one.
>>1025190
Besides that
>The Greeks were Romans for nearly fifteen hundred years
>>1019460
But Greek culture was hugely important to Rome in a way Greece conquered Rome from within
>>1025196
Not only that...
But Romans themselves were just Hellenized latins with some Roman elements of course.
>>1025190
Romans felt culturally inferior to Greece practically the whole time. Sometimes this resulted in admiration, sometimes in hatred.
I mean look at Vergil's pathetic attempt to link Rome to Troy.
>>1025210
Rome's success could be summed up in three words "infuriating penis envy"
>>1025190
haha, nice meme
nusquam Graecula quod recantat echo
nec dictat mihi luculentus Attis
mollem debilitate galliambon
>>1020751
Latifundia + Egyptian grain
>>1021010
>unemployed
>join the army
>>1025243
2bh anti-Byzantium shilling is even more prominent in the /his/ocialist revisionism general.
>>1025210
To some extent, I think they recognized that Greece had a superior history, culture, art, and learning. But they constantly feuded with one another and liked luxury a bit too much. Compare to the Romans. Unified, disciplined, militaristic, they thought they had the role of leader and conqueror.
>"Roman, remember by your strength to rule
Earth's peoples--for your arts are to be these:
To pacify, to impose the rule of law,
to spare the conquered, battle down the proud."
>>1022273
a ton of different reasons
anyone who says "Rome fell because of reason X" is just looking at the fall of Rome with their own biases and coming to a conclusion that suits them
>multiculturalism
>immigration
>atheism
>feminism
>promiscuity
>christianity
i have heard people blame all of these things at one time or another
>>1025250
Rome fell because of the Turks
:^)
>>1025254
>Greeks LARPing as Romans fell because of Turks :^)
FTFY.
>>1025293
*Ethnic Hellenics who legitimately had the title of Romans fell because of the Turks :^^^^^)
FTFU
This is the Byzantium thread right?
>>1025341
Its the Roman empire thread
So yes
>>1025361
Those genealogies did not exist in the Roman world without Greek influence.
The Trojans were a Greek obsession, no one else.
>>1025395
I never claimed whether it was factual or not in truth. I'm telling you that you are a retard for thinking it solely stems from Vergil, you fucking moron.
>>1024833
>I wonder how the people of Rome during the middle ages felt walking between the ruins of a long lost and glorious civilization. I find it incredibly saddening.
>saddening
that's how I felt walking around Roman ruins in greece. Imagine a thousand years ago when there were a lot more Roman ruins still standing and very little comparable contemporary buildings. You can see why they idolized Rome.
>>1025417
I'm not even the guy you were "correcting", I'm just pointing out that you aren't helping your case by showing that Greek influence on Roman identity was even more deeply rooted than that guy tried to profess with Virgil.
Unclench your anus, m9.
>>1025436
Work on your comprehension. And the Trojans themselves are not Greeks.
>>1024833
Well at least they would have known who built them, unlike say the Aztecs or the Celts who had no idea where the ancient monuments around them were from.
>>1025450
Nowhere did I imply that the Trojans are Greeks. Work on your comprehension.
>>1025462
Yes you did. The entire tangent here is basis of the fact the Romans did not much care to base their cultural or historical identity on the Greeks but rather the Trojans. I pointed out the other anon was wrong thinking this solely stems from Vergil.
Work on your own comprehension.
>>1025470
I didn't.
They didn't base their identity on the Greeks themselves, but on the Greek world. The entire reason for professing themselves as descended from the Trojans was to bring themselves squarely into the Hellenic sphere without being lowly barbarians, but somewhat civilized. The Greeks would also use that at times against them, or to justify their own submission at their hands.
Outside of the Etruscans, Italy has no connection whatsoever to Anatolia.
>>1025510
Trojans aren't Greek. Conquest of Southern Italy and destruction of Magnia Greece was spurred by Roman's appealing to fellow Italics and Latins to be anti-Greek.
>>1025516
anti-greekness =/= anti-hellenic sphere
>>1025510
They hardly based their "identity" on the Greek world. When Marc Antony and Cleopatra were partying in the Eastern provinces, and doing the whole Greek mind-set thing of pretending to be like Dionysus, he was condemned verbatim by the Senate and Octavian as being a "degenerate Greek lover".
>>1025530
>Octavian condemning someone as a "degenerate Greek lover"
And yet here he is in all his Polykleitan glory.
>>1025544
Stephenopulous pls go
>>1025554
t. Gaius
>>1022273
Napoleon
>>1025563
It is better to be a proud Roman then a degenerate Greek.
>>1025572
He straight up looks like a little boy.
Look at that girly chin lmao
>>1025579
>girly chin
>>1025572
>muh degeneracy
You tasteless faggots are the worst.
>>1025590
Fuck off boy fucker
What do the Romans do when they read an informative work?
Discunt
>>1025590
>muh degeneracy
That's exactly what the Roman kept saying about the greeks though
the edge
>>1025590
There's a reason why Cato and Cicero hated Greek cunts
>>1025599
a bit hypocritical and hilarious though.
instead of the pot calling the kettle black, we might as well change the phrase to "roman calling a greek degenerate".
Why don't we build good roads, like the romans did? We have 1000 times more resources but our roads are 1000 times shittier.
>>1025637
>pederasty is a more common practice in Dorian Greece
>pederasty is seen as degeneracy in any form even with slaves in Rome
No
>>1025637
Roman hedonism is a little overblown. It was definitely there among the upper classes in the late pagan empire but they weren't as sensual or leisurely as the Greeks overall. And if you go back far enough they were considerably more conservative.
Still, every real mensch knows the Greeks were superior.
>>1025657
>roman sexual ethics have remained fixed throughout antiquity
No
>>1025668
Compared to the Greeks? At least they didn't try to justify having young male lovers who were non-slaves.
Greeks are faggots.
>>1025676
Romans were just as gay, only not with young boys. They preferred grown ass men.
In that case you could actually argue that the Romans were gayer, since they actively wanted to shag men who looked like men, whereas the Greeks at least put on the charade that they wanted to shag young boys because they resembled women.
>>1019460
> Greek fans fuck off
>forgetting participants were greekaboos
>it got so bad that some almost exclusively spoke greek
stay pleb
>>1025695
it's a buttblasted romaboo fest up in here, but i'm glad the greekbros came in to crash the party
op was asking for it anyway
okay theres nothing inherently wrong with being attracted to hot young boys. let's just get that clear, and now we can move on.
>>1025692
>Romans were just as gay
Less gay in fact.
>They preferred grown ass men.
They didn't. In fact its more justifiable with the Romans not being faggots because they treated slave bottoms as literal furniture and didn't recongize them as human beings. Meanwhile in Sparta you have 30+ year old men having a long time physical and gay sexual relationship with preteen Spartan boys apprenticed to them.
Try again.
>>1025713
>Romans only fucked slaves
lol incredible. Next time you should make sure you know what you're talking about before trying to discuss a topic. Thanks.
>>1025718
What a great rebuttal there dude.
>>1025723
Yes let me mash away at my keyboard to counter your obviously well-researched statement that Romans only fucked slaves.
>>1025738
>You let me
Correct.
>>1024833
In Beowulf, there are occasional references to (presumably Roman) ruins, which are referred to as "the work of giants."
Would Augustus have been proud of Constantine?
>>1029026
No and you can take your sandnigger death-cult and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.
>>1020792
Sicily or Magna Graecia also produced a very large amount of grain for the Empire.
>>1025244
Based Marian reforms
>>1029030
Finland?
“Have I played the part well? Then applaud as I exit.”
Long live live the man who truly reached perfection. A God he really is.
>it's a let's argue if the Greeks or Romans were gayer thread
