>Faith ends up wavering
>Decide deism is right
>Three months later
>Read a good argument for Christianity/Catholicism, or inspirational Christian history
>Faith rejuvenated
>Go to mass every Sunday
>Three months later
>Think of a theological question I can't find a satisfying answer for
>Go back to step one
How do I get out of this cycle? I've been stuck in it for the past year and a half.
Do you have any stage you would prefer to stay in?
1) There is nothing wrong with this. Altering your personal convictions based on new ideas is healthy, in my opinion.
2) Atheism is correct.
>>1003834
I have to admit that Santiago Matamoros looks awesome every time
By realizing religion is a tool used by those who are sure of themselves to control those who aren't.
You are unsure, therefore you are battered to and fro by theological winds
>>1003894
Not really. Consistency is the only thing I'm looking for at this point
Why do you not talk to your priest or something at church?
Surely they'll be a better source of information instead of a couple of pseudo intellectual strangers on a Cantonese cartoon board
>>1003926
You can either eternally remain skeptical of Christianity and as such always exist on the outside of it.
Or you can just take the leap to faith. Your call.
The clock is ticking though.
>>1003834
Your faith is that there is one God. So is the devil's. He knows there is one God.
Then your faith is in inspirational human activity. Which fades, and fails.
Then your faith is in a church, and a pagan church at that. That's never going to be good.
Then your faith is in your ability to answer all the questions you can imagine. Faith in yourself. Another dead end.
I suggest you place your faith in the risen Christ Jesus, and Him alone. He will never fail you, He will never leave you, He will never balk at answering your questions.
It's not the presence of faith, or the intensity of faith, that matters. It's the object of faith.
>>1003959
I would very much like to agree with this, and to also note that Christianity is not something you can stick your toe in and see if you like it.
It's more like jumping into your father's arms as a child, when he's in the deep end of the pool, treading water.
>>1003834
I will give you the advice that I heard from an old man once.
You don't have to identify yourself with something for a 100%. You can see yourself as a good Christian and go to church and listen to the sermons. And you can sometimes be skeptical. It is okay that you want to believe in god 100%, but it's also okay to have some doubt sometimes. Because you probally know what answer you will give when you stand in front of the gate. Good luck!
>>1003994
You do?
Jesus: Why should I let you into heaven?
You:
>>1003999
Me: you don't have to.
Also, I don't believe in hell
>>1003968
>pagan church
m e m e
>>1003834
have you considered rejecting religion
>>1003994
>answer
To what?
>>1003999
>Jesus: Why should I let you into heaven?
I-I'm a good person
>>1004148
Why would someone shoot a man before throwing him out of a plane?
>>1004153
Christ: no you aren't you dumb frogposter
>>1004161
>>1004093
Correct on the Jesus not having to let you in; very much wrong on hell.
If there's one thing a person cannot be wrong on, it's hell. You can be wrong on literally everything else, but if you manage to avoid hell, you win.
>>1004116
Pagan is as pagan does.
>>1004153
Hmmmm, let's take out the books of your life, and see what you thought, said, and did every single second of your life, to see if you are as perfect as God is.
How do you think that review from an omniscient, omnipresent God will work out for you? Good?
>>1004176
The worst thing I did is cum in my mouth while massaging my prostate.
>>1004190
You never were angry at someone for no reason? Never called anyone a fool? Never wished anyone was dead? Never attacked anyone in anger? Not prejudiced against anyone?
>>1004210
>You never were angry at someone for no reason?
No.
>Never called anyone a fool?
I never insult people besides my brother and I don't do it to be mean.
>Never wished anyone was dead?
Who hasn't? I wish evil people who do me evil to die because I despise evil. What's wrong with that?
>Never attacked anyone in anger?
Never.
>Not prejudiced against anyone?
No.
>>1004190
>The worst thing I did is cum in my mouth while massaging my prostate.
Mate.
>>1003834
This cycle is just the natural human reasoning process. There's nothing wrong with being indecisive. I'm fairly indecisive myself about religion.
>>1004221
>I wish evil people who do me evil to die because I despise evil. What’s wrong with that?
Lot of turning the other cheek there laddie
>people still think an omniscient god would make value-judgements, have a sense of morality, or care about humans on any level
>>1003834
>Read a good argument for Christianity/Catholicism
like what
>>1004228
>2016
>he still can't suck his own cock
top pleb
>>1003959
the clock has been ticking ever since jesus died
what makes you think it will ever stop ticking?
>>1004176
Better than a review from some shitposter on a Taiwanese cartoon image board, that's for sure.
>>1004258
>God doesn't care about the beings to whom he has given consciousness
epic delusion senpai
>>1004190
>cum in my mouth
What did it taste like?
>>1004286
give me one reason why he would, other than "if he didnt i would feel abandoned and lonely"
>>1004286
>implying we would be like anything more than a petri dish of bacteria to a omniscient being
Human arrogance really knows no bounds.
>>1004293
Ask your mom
>>1004293
Like the mucus that you swallow, so not really any taste except it feels a bit more salty right when you swallow it. If you've eaten stuff that's not really healthy it'll be saltier though.
>>1004296
>implying I'm a human
>>1004331
>God loves humanity
According to: humans.
>>1004337
weak bait
>>1004327
>implying you’re anything but an edgy hairless monkey who’s absolutely full of himself
>>1004340
He's not wrong
>>1004283
This. Christcuckolds have been waiting for 2000 years despite jesus having told the apostles he would be back in their lifetimes.
A-anytime now! I-I swear this time is fo real!
>>1004344
>DUDE HUMANS ARE JUST STUPID ANIMALS LMAO
>>1004348
>jesus having told the apostles he would be back in their lifetimes
He never said this.
>>1004221
>I never insult people besides my brother and I don't do it to be mean.
Sounds like you murdered your brother, son of Cain.
>>1004331
>God loves humanity
[citation needed]
>>1003904
This.
>>1004357
Yeah, well what else are we? No other species has commited systematic killing of their own kind in the name of some "greater purpose" that only exists in their head. And apparently, realizing that this is the case is what's enabling those genocidal acts to happen, and not deludedly believing in those ideas without question.
>>1004283
>>1004348
2 Peter 3
...knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water.
You two are proof we are in the end times. You deny the Creation narrative and deny the Flood, and mock people still waiting for Jesus.
Jesus has been gone 2 days, and He's coming back on the third. Early on the third. Just like last time.
>>1004359
Never except when he did.
>>1004285
Here's how my review will look:
Father: His name is in the Lamb's Book of Life. He's in.
>>1004373
>le it's all in your head meme
>>1004380
>the evidence against god proves that god exists
>>1004380
>Jesus has been gone 2 days, and He's coming back on the third. Early on the third. Just like last time.
What do you mean?
>>1004359
>>1004384
Nope. Jesus said that some (some precludes neither one nor all) standing there listening to Him speak would not die until they saw Jesus coming in glory. When He said that, everyone looked at John, Peter got jealous, and John got the reputation for not being able to be killed. John later earned that reputation for not being able to be killed, and had to be exiled instead.
Where he, while still living, saw Jesus come in glory, and wrote about it in the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
>>1004380
>earth standing out of water and in the water
>Cites unscientific iron age cosmological beliefs as proof Christianity is true.
Ugh.
>>1004388
It's true. If a meteor smashed the earth tomorrow and wiped out all life, all those ideas would be gone. Putting it in memetext doesn't disprove it; it just shows off your insecurity in your own beliefs.
>>1004391
The descriptions of Anon are spot on, demonstrating we are living in the end times of this age.
>>1004395
Wait what?
>>1004397
>If a meteor smashed the earth tomorrow and wiped out all life, all those ideas would be gone
Except that'll never happen dummy.
>>1004398
>we live in the end times of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. you can tell, because the existence of this shriveled blade of grass proves it.
>>1004393
A thousand years is as a day to the Lord, and a day is as a thousand years.
He was dead three days and nights in the belly of the beast, the earth, and came back early on the third day.
He's coming back soon. By God's calendar, a 360 day calendar, He's been gone just a little more than two days. 2.01 days.
Any time now, we're sky. And I expect that will happen prior to September 23 of this year.
>>1004408
>the Flying Spaghetti Monster
>>1004398
That are similiar descriptions in Egyptian, Hindu and Persian scriptures (the later being where the Jews plagiarized the ideas of the end times and the messiah from, during the Persian period after the Babylonian captivity). Therefore by your logic they they are true.
>>1004411
>I-It'll happen FOR SURE this time you guys!
>>1004396
There used to be, and will be again, a canopy of water around the earth, increasing the oxygen content, the atmospheric pressure, and providing defense against the sun's rays.
The earth is literally between water, and in water, and came out of water.
>>1004406
Just because it'll probably never happen doesn't mean it's not theoretically possible. If you build a house on quicksand, and you come back a day later and it hasn't collapsed yet, that doesn't mean you built the house on a steady foundation.
>>1004397
That cannot happen, as it would be contrary to the bible.
Things that would cause the bible prophecy to fail do not happen.
>>1004413
Nice rebuttal friend
I swear to God, the fedora meme is the best thing to ever happen to christfags
>>1004411
>prior to September 23 of this year
Why not in the early 31st century?
>>1004399
Surrender to Jesus, declare Him your Lord, and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead, and get your name written into the Lamb's Book of Life.
>>1004404
Jesus said that some would not die before seeing the Second Coming.
In 95 AD, John the Revelator, John the Beloved apostle, was taken into our future and shown the Second Coming of Christ, and wrote about it.
Before John died, he saw Jesus descend in glory.
Just as Jesus said.
People often confuse this prophecy with another; that one generation will see the beginning of sorrows, and live to see the end of the age. That is a different prophecy that is ongoing right now. This is the generation that will see the end.
>>1004418
God is responsible for the laws of the Universe and so no meteor will ever destroy some of his most intelligent creations' planet to whom he has communicated his love.
>>1004420
>people unironically believe this
And people wonder why the Bible is considered dumb. You're literally telling me that the Bible can't be proven wrong because evidence dispeoving the Bible doesn't exist.
>>1004417
No. Iron Age beduins believed that there was water above and beneath the earth's flat disc and the sky was a tent as per the bible. You are offering a lame apology.
>>1004415
To the extent that they copied the bible, they are true. To the extent they relied upon their demon gods for revelation, they are false.
>>1004421
Where do you see a fedora, fedoralord?
>>1004423
>faith alone
Once you accept that every single religion and religious belief is based upon pure conjecture and unprovable things, the only rational thing to do is to reject all religion because there is no truth to any of it. This doesn't mean you abandon the moral teachings; a lot of modern Christian morals are just fine. But the divinity shit is just pure bullshit.
>>1004422
Because of the six day work week, and seventh day rest.
Because of the six thousand day work week, and the seventh thousand day rest.
Because events are now in motion, and soon the NWO will take the reins of this world, and drive it into the gates of hell.
>>1004434
Whatever you say
>>1004436
That is correct. You cannot prove the Word of God wrong, because God is never wrong, God is never ignorant, and God is actively at work making sure the Word of God is fulfilled, to every jot and tittle.
>>1004420
nice circular logic
>>1004437
There did used to be a water canopy over the earth. It fell. It was called Noah's Flood.
>>1004438
The "demon gods" so happen to have predicted the end times and the coming of a saviour from the only true god to save the elect and vanquish evil. That's Zoroastrianism.
>>1004436
>dude the bible is just dumb xD
18+
>>1004439
>your only response to me is to post a picture of an atheist with “cringe” as the filename
Even if there's no actual fedora in the picture, that's still clearly the point you're getting at
>>1004441
Belief alone. We're saved by grace through faith, not of works lest anyone should boast.
A murderer getting a pardon is not in a place to brag about it.
>>1004462
>Even if there's no actual fedora in the picture, that's still clearly the point you're getting at
But there's no fedora.
>>1004456
>There did used to be a water canopy over the earth
Oh shit I have been baited by troll. Thanks for wasting my time asshole. Grow up.
>>1004460
How about this: the bible is just as susceptible to evidence disproving it as any other statement of truth, and that for once insulting people over the internet won't act as proof for said book?
>>1004472
k
>>1004467
>there isn't a fedora in the picture
>well of course that means that it's not a euphoria meme because people don't say things that aren't direct statements of truth and because metephorical speech doesn't exist
How's autism therapy going for you?
>>1004442
You say unprovable, but you are just impatient. Everything will be proven to your satisfaction.
>>1004452
It's straight as an arrow. What God says will happen, will happen. Anything that purports to disrupt that will not happen.
>>1004483
>How's autism therapy going for you?
You tell me. There's no fedora, chill.
Pic related: what has happened to the thread.
>>1004457
That's Judaism, who also predicted, but failed to recognize, Jesus as the Messiah.
>>1004469
Since you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and no way to travel to the past, maybe consider that people witnessing past events are more reliable than your general solipsism.
>>1004472
iirc there's still a $1M prize for doing so that has never been claimed.
>>1004473
Perfect picture.
>>1004473
That picture also leaves out the infinite concepts and possible outcomes that humans can't even imagine, in addition to the billions of other religions on the planet and the fact that absolutely no scientific, philosophical, logical, or any other sort of evidence for God exists that extends it beyond "you can't know nuffin, it's a leap of faith, so take a leap into my faith because my beliefs are fucking superior.
But whatever, if you choose shitposting over actual thought, that's fine too
>>1004491
No that's Zoroastrianism you silly ignorant christard, that the Jahwist priests plagiarized after the Babylonian captivity.
But there is a similar concept in Hinduism.
Hurr durr demons.
Educate yourself.
>>1004502
The universe God made is evidence of God.
That you cannot grasp that simple fact is ponderous.
>>1004498
With criteria set up by Christians to be judged by Christians, I assume
>>1004503
The Jews brought the torah to Zoroaster; he never brought his pagan fire god to Israel. The torah predates Zoroaster by almost a thousand years.
Reminder that Jesus Christ was God on Earth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r641gMu45zI
>>1004485
There is no proving a creator of the universe. These metaphysical concepts are above anything we can prove.
In light of this, the most rational action is to not accept these claims as fact, because for all intents and purposes they are speculation and nothing more.
>>1004507
I'm sure there's some criteria; nobody has the autographs that anybody knows about, so there are some spelling variants, idioms, copyist errors, that sort of thing.
But something proven false in the bible? Never. And it's been tried a thousand times. And each and every attack has been found to be false. Each accusation against the bible found to be a lie.
The bible is the anvil upon which a thousand hammers have been broken.
The cornerstone of religion is faith. That's not to say you shouldn't constantly question doctrine and let your beliefs evolve, but at the core you have to make a decision to have faith that God is real. Without faith, you'll always have one foot out the door.
>>1004510
There is a universe. It is not eternal, or it would be at heat death. It did not make itself. So something made it.
Uncaused: eternal.
Self-caused: logical fallacy
Created by another: Bingo.
>>1004502
It's a world of Christianity and Islam. God and Satan.
Deal with it.
>>1004505
The universe has always existed. It was never created.
And I know you're going to go "hurr, durr, what existed before the big bang," but consider the following. Time and space were "created" at the big bang, right? And that means that time, space, and any other meaningful criteria regarding existence have only existed since the big bang, right? That means that nothing existed before the big bang, and time started at that event. Therefore, the universe has always existed, even though the universe has been around for a finite amount of years.
>>1004508
No.
>Torah
>Post-exilic
Persian
5th-4th centuries BCE
538-330 BCE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_the_Bible
>In modern scholarship Zoroaster is often dated to the 10th century BCE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroaster
>>1004532
>The universe has always existed
Science has already proven this to be impossible, and religion says it's false.
So if you want to believe it, that's fine. It's just wrong.
I calculated the other day that if all of the space was taken out of all of the atoms in the universe, the "Big Bang" singularity that they sold you as the head of a pin would actually be the size of 176,000,000,000,000 suns.
That came from nowhere.
And exploded.
>>1004538
Moses wrote the torah; Moses led the Egyptians out of Egypt in 1446 BC.
Pull your head out of your ass, and stop listening to Bart Ehrman.
>>1004513
>But something proven false in the bible? Never.
You must not have heard of young-earth creationism, flood geology, or anything of that sort that has been thoroughly disproven by science.
>>1004521
except there is no justification for God not needing a cause. it's simply special pleading
>>1004538
>Persian
Notice it's the Persian period. You know why it is called the Persian period? Coincidence? Did I tell you it was in the Persian period?
>>1004542
Science that purports to disprove the bible is wrong.
Science is always wrong.
Your god of Scientism is dead.
>>1004539
I don't think you read the rest of my comment. Like, at all. Go do that real quick.
Also,
>I calculated the other day
I'm sure you did, anon. I'm sure you did.
>>1004546
Of course there is. He's an eternal spirit being. He's not made out of dirt, like you.
>>1004552
None of your comments are worth reading, much less re-reading.
>>1004551
>the bible is always right because nothing has proven it wrong
>science can't prove the bible wrong because the bible is always right
>the bible is always right because nothing has proven it wrong
And so on.
>>1004541
>The truth shall set you free
How about you obey Jesus in this respect and stop lying to yourself to make you feel better?
If we are going by traditional accounts then according to Zoroastrian tradition he their prophet goes back 6000 years BC.
>Wah but my tradition is true and their is not!
>>1004558
Yup. Truth is not dispelled by lies.
The Word of God is inspired by God, Who is the Spirit of Truth, and Who is not wrong, and Who does not lie.
The Word of God is the only holy book on the planet, and infinitely reliable.
>>1004513
The bible says pi is 3.
Christians are delusional cucks.
>>1004560
Jesus is the Truth, and He has already set me free.
Your earliest copy of anything concerning Zoroaster is unbelievably modern. If you were capable of clear thought, you would see that the torah and the Persians intersected at the Babylonian captivity, and nowhere else.
>>1004521
>It did not create itself
Citation needed. Physics proves it's at least feasible.
Also where did God come from. No matter how many mental gymnastics you go through, it is a contradiction to say God is eternal but the universe is not. If God has always existed then the universe has always existed.
>>1004556
Ok, if you're not going to read my responses before you casually dismiss them (because you're so non-insecure about your beliefs that you have to shut out all other possibilities to make sure you never believe them), then I'll sum them up for you.
>time and space have only existed since the big bang
>therefore, nothing existed before the big bang, and time began at the big bang
>therefore, even though it's been around for a finite amount of years, the universe has always existes
This isn't hard to grasp. All you have to do is consider it and think about it, instead of narrow-mindedly shutting out anyone else's opinions like you do.
>>1004562
How do you know the Bible is the word of God, and not the Quran, or any other monotheistic holy book?
>>1004565
No, you're just dopey and never did the math yourself.
"And he [Hiram] made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one rim to the other it was round all about, and...a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about....And it was an hand breadth thick...." — First Kings, chapter 7, verses 23 and 26
The text refers to dimensions measured in "cubits" and "handbreadths".
The cubit was the length from the elbow to the tip of the outstretched fingers. It is commonly "standardized" today as being about eighteen inches.
A handsbreadth is the "hand" used to measure horses. It is the width of the palm of the person doing the measuring, and is "standardized" as being four inches.
The Calculations
outer diameter: 10 cubits, or 180 inches
outer radius: 5 cubits, or 90 inches
inner circumference: 30 cubits, or 540 inches
To find the "Jewish" or "Bible" value for pi, we need to have the inner radius.
Since the thickness of the bowl is given as one handsbreadth, then the inner radius must be:
90 – 4 = 86 inches
Let's do the calculations:
inner radius: 86 inches
inner circumference: 540 inches
The circumference formula is C = 2(pi)r, which gives us:
540 = 2(pi)(86)
540 = 172(pi)
Solving, we get pi = 540/172 = 135/43 = 3.1395348837..., or about 3.14.
Um... Isn't "3.14" the approximation we all use for pi?
>>1004570
You are dishonest person. So much for Christians having the moral high ground over anyone else.
The only thing you have for you is mere words. I have shown the informed opinions of scholars whb dedicate their lifes to research this and if you have nothing else to say then lahlahlah I'm not listening then this conversation is over.
>>1004577
No it doesn't. A cripple saying the universe would create itself due to the Law of Gravity is not "feasible".
>>1004578
tl;dr
>>1004582
The bible and the qu'ran are mutually exclusive, so both of them cannot be the Word of God.
The bible is said to be the true Word of God in the qu'ran.
You don't really need much more than that.
>>1004596
You don't think these values were standardized into the values mentioned later on in order to fit the biblical narrative?
>>1004599
I'm saying that you're referring to the manuscripts found less than a hundred years ago, and dating only back to the 10th century AD for propositions that happened in 600 BC.
Your book is at least 1600 years past the events. Mine isn't.
How do you find your faith? How do you make that leap?
>>1004610
The Old Testament and the New Testament are mutually exclusive, so both of them cannot be the word of God. Whoops.
>>1004618
I think someone just got #rekt, is what I think.
>>1004628
By surrendering to Jesus, the conquering King. By confessing out loud that He is your Lord, and believing in your heart God raised Him from the dead.
By jumping into your Father's arms in the deep end of the pool. It looks dangerous. It's okay. Your Father is where it is safe to be.
>>1004632
I'd like to know more about these "later standardizations" you speak of senpai.
>>1004629
What is hidden in the Old is revealed in the New, and it is all harmonized. And the New supports the Old, and says it is all inspired.
Oops. God did it again.
>>1004618
If you're saying what I think you're saying, it literally does not matter if the cubit is 18 inches or 12 inches or 10 yards.
>>1004640
I asked him to show me a sign last night that he's there. I got on my knees and said show me a sign and I'm yours. I can't say I saw a sign or not, I'm not sure. It was an unusually good day at work, maybe that was it.
Maybe I should buy a bible first.
>>1004605
Nice argument
>>1004643
>What is hidden in the Old is revealed in the New, and it is all harmonized.
Like.... saying not to add and subtract laws. Oh wait, no, that's actually in plain ink.
>And the New supports the Old, and says it is all inspired.
I'm curious, which do you think is the "supporting"? Is it the misquoting going as high up as Jesus? Is it the changing of all the laws on whims of mortals? Is it the ignorance of which portions are prophetic and which ones aren't? What about the severe ignorance of sacrificial law?
If you believe that the OT is divinely inspired and therefore true, then, for instance, you can't believe what Paul says about the OT, because it contradicts actual claims made by God and related down by prophets.
>>1004643
[Citation needed]
>>1004651
I like the New KJV, the English Standard is good, people really like the NASB. Whichever, reading it is more important than which of those it is.
Keep demanding that God prove Himself to you. He will. He's done it before, to many people, even some people in the bible like Gideon, and Moses.
>>1004643
The basic logic you are using is that if there is a disagreement between the old and new text the newer one is always right.
Using this same logic we could also say that Muhammid is correct. Any disagreement between the New Testament and the Quaran would be resolved by the Quaran taking priority.
>>1004659
The New does not add or subtract laws. Jesus saying Love God and Love Neighbor are also in the OT.
Aren't you tired of failing all the time?
>>1004627
Ok I promise to study this subject and come back for more. Meanwhile get your head out o your anus and study different religions before saying they are demonic. The Egyptian had a prototype of the Ten Commandments having many similar aspects. They religion possessed high moral standards. How can you say that something righteous can come from the devil when even Jesus, answering the Pharisees who accused him of being in league with demons, said that he could not be because what he was doing was good. Further your horizons and sop being such an asshole anon. You might be surprised.
>>1004663
>>1004670
>>1004651
You know people always talk about how you will never find God if you read the bible with the predetermined idea that you will not become spiritual - but whats never mentioned is the opposite, ie, how you will inevitably become religious if you go into something with that as your conscious intention in the first place.
Just a thought.
>>1004668
>The New does not add or subtract laws.
From matthew, chapter 19.
4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”
8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”
Which, by the way, also goes against Paul's theology that the old testament was balls breaking, take no account of human weaknesses, there to demonstrate the impossibility of being godly.
>Aren't you tired of failing all the time?
I'll admit, it's a bit depressing seeing you persist in your foolishness this long. You'd think it would be easy demonstrating something so large and obvious, but I just can't get through.
>>1004659
You need to get a grip on why God gave mankind His Law.
It was not to follow His Law, and get His blessings, and get His curses for failing, which everyone did.
It was to show you that if you're trying to be like Him by being good, and avoiding evil, you're failing.
And then on top of that, being like God is more than just being perfect following His Law. Much more. Things Jesus went into, like turning the other cheek, going the extra mile, giving the thief your cloak too, having no issues with any human being on earth.
Try your hardest to follow God's Law, realize you cannot, and throw yourself at the foot of the cross, where you belong.
>>1004660
Colossians 1
I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God, the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
>>1004667
There is no disagreement. There's two different covenants.
>>1004700
>It was not to follow His Law, and get His blessings, and get His curses for failing, which everyone did.
See, another contradiction from the Old, since it talks about how Israel followed the laws and was blessed.
>It was to show you that if you're trying to be like Him by being good, and avoiding evil, you're failing.
Which of course was not the purpose of the law either. Why do you actually take Paul seriously? He very, very clearly had no idea what he was talking about; he mixes up his own metaphors, he doesn't know the difference between tumah and avon, he conflates the paschal offering with a sin offering instead of a thanksgiving offering; what makes you think he has any idea what he's talking about when it comes to this stuff?
> Things Jesus went into, like turning the other cheek, going the extra mile, giving the thief your cloak too, having no issues with any human being on earth.
Except of course, God commands you at times to kill, and to take hostile, stern action. More contradictions!
>Try your hardest to follow God's Law, realize you cannot, and throw yourself at the foot of the cross, where you belong.
But it's been done before. Yishai, among others.
>>1004691
The Law was given to the servant, Moses.
Grace and Truth came through Jesus Christ.
The Son is greater than the servant, and lives in the house forever.
>>1004723
They followed the law with their sacrifices, done properly, which atoned for or covered up their sins, yes.
They did not properly follow the Law; no one every did, but Jesus. They are God's Law, and only God can follow them perfectly.
Israel suffered the curses; 70 years in Babylon for not letting the land rest once every 7 years for 490 years.
The blessings of the Old Covenant are nothing compared to the riches of the New Covenant. They're nothing.
>>1004723
Stop looking for a false messiah, and start figuring out your people were wrong 2000 years ago.
>>1004727
Good job missing the entirety of the point and reacting with an argument from your conclusion.
You know, whenever we argue, I get this sinking sense that you don't even understand how your points are being pulled apart, that you don't understand why I bring up the verses that I do. It's really quite depressing, because either I'm feeding a troll, or you're quite literally incapable of coherent communication.
>>1004663
Someone on here recommended the New Oxford Annotated Bible. I might pick that one up.
And I'll keep asking God for signs that he's there. Thanks for the advice, family.
>>1004734
>They followed the law with their sacrifices, done properly, which atoned for or covered up their sins, yes.
Read Ruth or Samuel, another point of wrong theology.
>They did not properly follow the Law; no one every did, but Jesus. They are God's Law, and only God can follow them perfectly.
No, there were quite a few people who did so. Of course, the record of such is contained in books that you don't consider valid, but then again, you're basing your entire argument based on books I don't consider valid, so in the interest of fairness, I would have to point out that Shabbos 55b lists at least 4 people who never sinned, as well as a fairly lengthy list of others who might have been in that category.
>Israel suffered the curses; 70 years in Babylon for not letting the land rest once every 7 years for 490 years.
They also got the blessings. You might want to try reading Isaiah outside of the two prophecies you Christians love to misquote. Try the part about the Assyrian push south breaking.
>>1004737
And do look towards one who not only didn't fulfill actual messianic prophecies, but poo-poed the notion.
Face it, Jesus was no different from Shavtai Tzvi.
>>1003959
>The clock is ticking though.
Fearmongering like christians do.
"Remain skeptical, or take the leap of faith... it's your call... the clock is ticking though...
Oh, shit... the clock is ticking... you're gonna die soon... oh shit, OH SHIT...
take the leap of faith, TAKE THE LEAP OF FAITH!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nUwZmg4W6c
>>1004541
M8, Im not sure how to tell you this, but even jewish scholarship believes the exodus to have been a myth
>>1004444
>soon the NWO will take the reins of this world
Who will save us?
>>1004818
Why do they still celebrate Passover then?
Checkmate.
>200 comments
>There are 30 posters in this thread
>>1004881
>Why do they still celebrate Passover then?
Because unlike religious fundies they seem to be (mostly) able to decouple the narrative from the cultural significance. Why the hell do we still celebrate the winter solstice or the fertility festival of the godess easter?
>>1004881
1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V2lxFWBqfI
2) Passover is about all Jewish suffering throughout time. The Exodus story just serves as a broad metaphor.
>>1003834
No one can know if there is a deity or a god or a greater being but the big 3 is false, plain and simple.
How could someone sitll believe in any of that bullshti after actually reaing the holy books are beyond me.
>>1004434
>God is responsible for the laws of the Universe and so no meteor will ever destroy some of his most intelligent creations' planet to whom he has communicated his love.
this kind of narcisism is extremely destructive.
>We have the god with us, we cant be wrong
that shit can justify anything.
>>1004380
2 Peter is a forgery.
>>1004423
I can feel the lord's love inside of me senpai
>>1005040
Is it a good pain?
>>1004952
What's up with the newturds who keep saying this? This isn't reddit. It's 4chan. We can post as much as we want and have arguments which makes us reply countless times.
>>1003834
Honestly, anon, I've been going through this cycle for decades. There is no magical line of reasoning that will work unless you accept the premise that you are incapable of logically proving the existence of god.
But there is a nice metaphor I found in Chaos Theory: the Strange Attractor. See, when analyzing weather patterns in the interest of predicting them, a guy named Edward Lorenz
discovered that what looks like random data can be organized into a pattern that makes sense... but only if you see it in hindsight.
The implications of this can be extrapolated by realizing that, if you treat all empirical input as information, then you find that causality reaches a predictability limit, and that the limit is time itself. Time is the strange attractor which allows us to see the causality between all events and... thus, time is essentially God.
It's not verifiable, but each person in their own life has had moments where the probability of a moment is so astronomically high that it seems there must be some unseen force, some controlling factor. Maybe there is. Maybe trying to label and identify the numinous *is* the error of sin that separates us from understanding. Maybe that *is* the "fruit of knowledge," and the irony is that instead of arguing about who's right, humans are just supposed to share their different ideas and find the connections between them.
That's my take, anyway, after a lifetime of seeking, and I find peace in it.
>>1004395
>>1004433
Stating that John the Apostle and John of Patmos were the same person is itself an act of faith (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_Patmos).
>>1004596
Many cultures independently determined an approximate value of pi and wrote it down. Does this mean they are all god's word?
>>1003994
holy cow that is a nice painting
>>1004411
>Any time now, we're sky. And I expect that will happen prior to September 23 of this year.
>my birthday is sept 22
>>1004753
I'm not actually a christian. This is just my take on Christianity. There's always going to be room for doubt, the only way to truly embrace it is to leap to faith.
>>1004420
wait a sec, is this why christians deny global warming so harshly?
If so then it all makes sense now.
>>1003834
Become Muslim
>>1004628
Realize that there is an order to the universe that is greater than yourself. You will never understand it fully, but it's there. You'll struggle all your life to catch brief glimpses of it, but it's a life well-lived.
>>1005117
>It's not verifiable, but each person in their own life has had moments where the probability of a moment is so astronomically high that it seems there must be some unseen force, some controlling factor. Maybe there is. Maybe trying to label and identify the numinous *is* the error of sin that separates us from understanding. Maybe that *is* the "fruit of knowledge,"
The sin of pride. Disconnection from the world around you for love of self.
>>1004411
You should really read the commentary for 2 Peter 3-8 on biblehub (just google the verse and choose the biblehub link).
A few notes:
- The phrase "a thousand years" was commonly used as a colloquialism for "so gol-durned long we can't even imagine."
- It is echoed in Psalms 90:4 ("A thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday"), written by King David - and since David is not considered a prophet, it suggests that the term is not really part of prophetic exactness, but instead more of a statement of how we can't apply our understanding of time to god.
- The idea that anyone can accurately predict the second coming contradicts Matthew 24:36: "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only" (KJV).
- Read this list: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictions_and_claims_for_the_Second_Coming_of_Christ). Then ask yourself if you maybe think that trying to predict this kind of thing isn't perhaps an exercise in folly.
>>1005398
Pride is the belief in self over god. Belief that all humans share one collective experience as the sum total (Aleph Null, so to speak) of all information processed by all human minds throughout history, and that our actions are guided by a force greater than any one person could ever be seems to me to be the opposite of pride, innit? It suggests *connection* - not only with the world around you, but the *people* around you, who *are* you, because we are all one. That just doesn't sound like sin, if you define sin as separation from god, because it's understanding god as part of everyone and everything.
Also, judging the sins of another is sort of explicitly stated in the bible as something people would be wiser to avoid, if you believe the bible, which I sort of assume you do.
>>1004753
>take the leap of faith, TAKE THE LEAP OF FAITH!"
It's not like that at all. You don't have to change anything in your day-to-day life. You don't have to compromise yourself intellectually.
Faith is trusting that the core of the universe is order. Faith is trusting that God, whatever you may conceive it to be, established an order to the universe that goes beyond chaos.
>>1005449
>established an order to the universe that goes beyond chaos
Interesting choice of words: "Satan" derives from the Egyptian god of Chaos, Set.
>>1005438
I don't know that I agree with the premise. You presuppose that prideful sins embrace a collective viewpoint, i.e. all human ideas together are greater than God. Pride tends to come from the individual. My intellect is above reproach. I am right, and everyone else is wrong. That's where you find the sin of Pride.
>judging the sins of another is sort of explicitly stated in the bible as something people would be wiser to avoid, if you believe the bible, which I sort of assume you do.
I was 100% looking at my own sins of pride. It was quite a revelation.
>>1005490
Except that's bullshit. Satan derives from a Semitic construction, not an Afroasiatic one. It's from "Shatan", which means obstruction or adversary.
