So I need to write about the role of Christianity in the fall of Communism
Unfortunately, I know very little about this
Now, I'm not asking you to do my coursework or anything
I just want to have a civil discussion with maybe some useful sources posted etc that will allow me to get a decent base understanding of the matter so that I may write this shit
thanks senpaitachi
>>1001465
>the role of Christianity in the fall of Communism
Not much, really. You should write about the opposite.
seek poland
>>1001481
really? fug.
>>1001485
He's being facetious
>Gorbachev once said "The collapse of the Iron Curtain would have been impossible without John Paul II."
Read about the former pope and the Solidarity movement
>>1001488
oh ok, thanks
what about Russia
was there any Solidarnost type shit going on there?
Did the historically very significant orthodox church and peoples attachment to it have any impact?
Implying Christianity isnt just communism in religious form
>In his final confession under torture of May 1525, Müntzer stated that one of the primary aims of himself and his comrades was ‘omnia sunt communia’ – “all things are to be held in common and distribution should be to each according to his need”.[37] This statement has often been cited as evidence of Müntzer’s ‘early communism’;[38] but it stands quite alone in all of his writings and letters. Thus, it is far more likely to have been a statement of what his captors feared than what Müntzer actually believed. Indeed, even at a very late stage, Müntzer still accepted some form of social hierarchy, based on functions bound up with the work of God, rather than inheritance.
>>1001465
What countries? In Poland and Germany both the church is considered to be the brood chamber of the revolution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monday_demonstrations_in_East_Germany
>>1001502
any countries
i guess the focus should be europe
>>1001465
Yeah, Poland is a great example since Catholic Church there had extremely high authority, up to the point of being almost a parallel government.
>>1001494
Russian Orthodox Church got cucked by Soviets hard. Virtually all priests were affiliated with KGB. However, if you want to be a hipster about your paper, I suggest seeking some material about Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church. I was outlawed by commies but managed to exist in underground up until the end of USSR, and since it was strongly tied to Ukrainian identity in Galicia (where this church is actually spread), it did have some impact.
Christianity did only play a minor role. If it played a role at all.
>>1001504
Focus on Germany.
Under the roof of the church samizdats were printed and distributed which help form a network of oppositions. Also notably people went to the protests AFTER work which is one of the reason why historians sometimes call it a "protestant revolution".
>>1001516
good stuff, thank you
>>1001515
Bullshit. It's consensus for the GDR at least that the church (not christianity as such though) played a major role in forming the early opposition movement that lead to the fall of the Berlin wall.
>>1001485
Italy had perhaps the strongest European communist parties outside of the Eastern Bloc.
Poland firmly remained under communist occupation until 1989.
Spain... you can argue that strong religious culture helped Franco to win the civil war.
Despite what many Americans seem to think, their love of Jeebus wasn't what prevented Communism from taking root there.
John Paul II took a strong stance against communism, sure, but he wasn't that influental.
While Communism was agressively atheistic, it has quickly adopted a "live and let live", attitude, so the traditionally religious Russians (and Soviet minorities) didn't have much to complain about.
>>1001465
>role of Christianity in the fall of Communism
Very little. Also Biblical/Torahical Joseph (patriarch) was vizier of Egypt Pharaondom and inventor of Communism.
>>1001522
>Poland firmly remained under communist occupation until 1989.
>John Paul II took a strong stance against communism, sure, but he wasn't that influental.
does this not somewhat contradict >>1001506
>Poland is a great example since Catholic Church there had extremely high authority, up to the point of being almost a parallel government.
>>1001522
>John Paul II took a strong stance against communism, sure, but he wasn't that influential.
He was a key figure in the christian polish-nationalist movement that was always directed against Russia (Gomulka). Stop making stuff up.
>>1001494
No.
Orthodox church had certain relations with KGB and was okay after Khrushev.
Russian Orthodox Church (foreign) was an organization of immigrants, somewhat related to the immigrant journals and papers like Posev. Again, the relevance of religious aspect in the fall of Soviet Union is not very big. I'd rather write about the role of Soviet elite in ruining stuff
>>1001523
>>1001522
>>1001515
>>1001481
>No one can prove conclusively that he was a primary cause of the end of communism. However, the major figures on all sides - not just Lech Walesa, the Polish Solidarity leader, but also Solidarity's arch-opponent, General Wojciech Jaruzelski; not just the former American president George Bush Senior but also the former Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev - now agree that he was. I would argue the historical case in three steps: without the Polish Pope, no Solidarity revolution in Poland in 1980; without Solidarity, no dramatic change in Soviet policy towards eastern Europe under Gorbachev; without that change, no velvet revolutions in 1989.
>>1001465
Communism was partially a religion. Naming children with Revolutionary names. Faith in bright future. Cults of famous leaders.
>>1001530
ok, fair enough
wrt to the essay title i have no choice in the matter, but as I need to explore whether it did/didn't play a role in the fall, i suppose i can mention the other non-christian factors too
>>1001526
John Paul II and Polish Church structures are different things. I may have exaggerated the "parallel government" part a little but it still provided a non-communist alternative and guidance for people - that did help a bunch.
Also there was Jaruzelski with his martial law and Brezhnev Doctrine - even with all their authority priests couldn't just oppose that.
>>1001533
>The Roman Catholic Church, under the leadership of Pope John Paul II, was a very powerful supporter of the union and was greatly responsible for its success. Lech Wałęsa, who himself publicly displayed Catholic piety, confirmed the Pope's influence, saying: The Holy Father, through his meetings, demonstrated how numerous we were. He told us not to be afraid.[24]
>>1001534
Yeah except all those things had disappeared in the 80s.
>>1001482
What Poland? Communist leader Lenin gave Poland independence with out will of Poles, nobody ask them.
>>1001543
Yeah the Red Army and Lenin strongly believed in an independent Poland.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Warsaw_%281920%29
>>1001543
????
>>1001553
Ivan is drunk, disregard him.
>>1001517
take this: http://www.global-ethic-now.de/gen-eng/0c_weltethos-und-politik/0c-pdf/Doublerole_GDR.pdf
>>1001567
nice, is this from a larger text?
>>1001548
Of course same as Germany and Austria created dependent country Poland in 1916.
>>1001577
i'll check out the cambridge stuff
german is fine for me too though, i speak the language
>>1001465
>role of Christianity in the fall of Communism
Providing places for meeting may be.
>>1001582
Don't know what level you are on so basic stuff (with literature you can seek after):
http://www.bpb.de/apuz/32092/widerstand-von-protestanten-im-ns-und-in-der-ddr?p=all
http://www.bpb.de/geschichte/zeitgeschichte/deutschlandarchiv/186931/frieden-als-demokratieforderung-evangelische-kirche-in-den-1980er-jahren-in-der-ddr
http://www.mauerfall-berlin.de/friedliche-revolution/kirche-friedliche-revolution/
http://www.deutschlandfunk.de/protestantischer-protest.886.de.html?dram:article_id=223036
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8X8AxO3FgA
>>1001596
>what level you are on
linguistic level you mean?
>>1001581
They did that for pragmatic reasons only. Later on they tried to take it back.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_War
>>1001581
>Germany wanted an independent Poland after 1918
>>1001465
Fuck the Christianity, this guy crashed Communism.
>>1001599
Linguistic and academic.
>>1001605
>muh mono-causality
>>1001607
fully fluent
academically i think you can hit me with the hard stuff too
>>1001605
He literally admitted the Pope played a primary role in taking down the Iron Curtain
>>1001543
You are wrong. Russian Provisional Government in 16 (29) March 1917 year agreed right of Poles for an independent country. That was before Lenin.
>>1001616
He was just ashamed to admit he only wanted some pizza.
>>1001612
Ok, so here is a useful overview: http://www.sehepunkte.de/2009/10/15852.html
I personally believe that Kowalczuk knows his shit best.
Also: https://www.bundestag.de/blob/333106/8ad3401f5216bbe1cf58c22d98a53fbb/montagsdemonstrationen-data.pdf
This nigger wasn't influential during the revolution itself but he is sort of the epitome of the way Germans remember that time and what role they ascribe to the church (read the bio): https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim_Gauck
>>1001625
thank you very much for all this, friend
>>1001632
It is np. It is pretty much my job. This is fun too: http://www.taz.de/!5054138/
>>1001496
Muntzer was such a chimpy leftard that even Luther rejected him.
>>1001610
Mono-causality might be enough. For example a death of Möngke Khan in 1259 year C.E. was enough for struggle about power between his brothers Kublai and Ariq Böke and as consequence crash of Mongolian Empire.
Пocлe cмepти вeликoгo хaнa Myнкэ (1259) paзвepнyлacь бopьбa зa вepхoвнyю влacть мeждy eгo бpaтьями Хyбилaeм и Apиг-Бyгoй.
>>1001637
Yeah but believe or not but societies got more complex during the course of 700 years.
>http://www.sup.org/books/title/?id=1234
>>1001635
what is your job
>>1001649
Teaching while working on my PhD.
>>1001653
very nice
>>1001652
lmao
>>1001652
>everybody who thinks my /pol/ logic is shit is a bolshevik
>>1001662
>everybody who makes fun of lefties is from /pol/
>>1001664
>thinking leftism is a category appropriate to analyze events of the 16th century.
What was the last book you read? I am reading Empire of Secrets right now and I am far from being a leftist.
>>1001668
>Muntzer was not a leftist
Top joj
>>1001673
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics
>Left-wing politics supports social equality and egalitarianism, often in opposition to social hierarchy and social inequality
>They typically involve concern for those in society whom they perceive as disadvantaged relative to others and a belief that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished.
Müntzer was trying to destroy the HRE to bring an end to the world. You are fucking delusional in your dichotomous world view (and you are quite obvious from /pol/). Also gj responding to my questions with more ebin maymays.
Is it ironic that because of suppression of the Church, Religion actually thrived in the USSR and now post USSR states are often theocratic shitholes while the liberal capitalist west has BTFO'ed religion and pretty much nobody except evangelicals take it actually seriously anymore?
>>1001790
quite ironic, actually
i wonder if there are any good texts on this matter
Why political life thus poor? Left-wing, right-wing, such lack of ideas. Already XXI century but people get stuck in previous century topics.
>>1001790
>often theocratic shitholes
>theocratic
Lay off the acid, retard
>>1001790
Even kings did suppression of Church organization, in case a church leader do not support his.
>>1001790
>now post USSR states are often theocratic shitholes
Are examples?
>>1001790
Merkel is the daughter of a preacher, the president of Germany is in fact a former teacher, religion comes up in every US election and way stronger than in the 70s etc.
Religion never got BTFOd in the West. You are simplying.
>>1001819
Merkel is East German
>>1001819
>Germany is in fact a former teacher,
Preacher.
>>1001805
>the left-right dichotomy is from the 20th century
>>1001815
No examples since that's simply not true.
>>1001790
Sure.
>>1001840
Darker = more cuck'd
>>1001840
That chart is bullshit.
Poland for example is almost entirely radically catholic, only 4% "do not believe in God or do not know".
>>1001849
And how exactly does the chart contradict that?
>>1001815
Pretty much all eastern european countries are letting the church dictate all social policy.
Georgia is a good example of a country gone off the deep end, but the church is dicating social policy in Poland, Russia, Ukraine etc
in the "Holy peoples republic of donetsk" protestants are being murdered in the name of the Orthodox church.
>"we would very much like to maximally integrate the Orthodox church into areas that concern morals, in areas that concern family values, and so on…"
>>1001873
>"Holy peoples republic of donetsk"
Such thing do not is in this world. Only Donetsk People's Republic is. Populated by miners and workers, with little interest in religion, but maybe in civil war time some little splash of religion may be.
> protestants are being murdered
1. Murder illegal is in all countries. Cases by criminal not example.
2. Bet 10$, protestants are rare in that area.
> in the name of the Orthodox church.
> the church is dicating social policy in Poland, Russia, Ukraine
You should write fantasy books, you have talent.
By Wikipedia source 60% of people at Ukraine are atheists.
>>1001902
>Populated by miners and workers, with little interest in religion, but maybe in civil war time some little splash of religion may be.
Lol fucking bullshit, also the DPR admits it's targeting Protestants, they also are very open about being a theocratic force.
The reason I call it the "Holy peoples republic" is because they mash extreme orthodox zealotry with Soviet nostalgia, creating an almighty contradiction.
>1. Murder illegal is in all countries. Cases by criminal not example.
>2. Bet 10$, protestants are rare in that area.
And the DPR cares about this? They are still murdering protestants in the name of the church.
>You should write fantasy books, you have talent.
Yes, Russia, Georgia and all sorts of other EE countries are implementing all these bullshit medieval social laws and imprisoning protesters who protest against the church based on "Religious freedom" or some bullshit.
There is an incestious relationship between the church and the states in Eastern Europe. The States are using the Church to ramp up nationalism and loyalty, while the church is using the state to push it's social agenda.
The Christian religion was played no real contribution to the fall of Communism.
While the Catholic Church and other denominations denounced Communism and persecution in the Comintern/Warsaw Pact countries, it did little more than bark; also, the general corruption of the Catholic Church and the supposed hypocrisy of Christian groups in Latin America (ex: white missionaries from the affluent and suburban U.S. telling poor farmers to look forward to an eternal reward) that led to significant embraces of Leftist/Communist-thought (which itself created unrest, civil wars: see, the Shining Path of Peru).
Also, in the Eastern Bloc proper, people simply didn't care enough about religion. The reason Communism fell was due to internal factors (stagnant economy, inefficient bureaucracy, nationalist movements) and due to a want for a "Western" lifestyle and products.
Christianity had nothing to do with it.
>>1001920
>medieval social laws
for example?
>Lol fucking bullshit, also the DPR admits it's targeting Protestants, they also are very open about being a theocratic force.
Let me guess - you learnt that from Vice News or other libtard media like this, right?
>>1001920.
Web show only links to Ukrainian resources chatting about this. In time of civil war both sides use propaganda and biased, so Ukrainian and Donetsk sources do not have trust.
So much off-topic in this tread.
>>1001543
>they didn't want independence
>>1001951
So you have no arguments.
/pol/
>>1001873
Georgia is not really Eastern Europe.
Also it is hardly possible for anyone to dictate anything in those states since a majority of the laws are applied EU guidelines. So yeah, I think you are making stuff up:
http://www.policy-evaluation.org/cerami/docs/Cerami_Book_LIT_Verlag.pdf
>>1001960
>/pol/
>>>/2ch/
>>1001873
All the countries you named (except are Russia) were laboratories for the post-1990 neo-liberalism. This is what dictated the social policies.
Source: http://www.suhrkamp.de/buecher/the_new_order_on_the_old_continent-philipp_ther_42461.html?d_view=english
>>1001957
Who gosh know about wishes of Poles in 1910 year?! Bet Mohammed wife, in 1910 year was no public opinion poll in Poles area.
>>1001465
>So I need to write about the role of Christianity in the fall of Communism
Known CIA agent and defender of freedom of kid diddlers, John Paul II used Church structures for gaining intel for the US but overall it's really worthless because the communist states got very, very ineffective and heading to hell by the time he was in power.
However, it is true that he secured the fall of communism - in a way that ensured that all post-communist countries will be huge importers rather than exporters(which they were geared for).
>>1001985
This posts reeks of shitty English grammar so hard I can almost sent the smell of vodka on your breath.
>>1001991
Read the thread before posting.
>>1001985
I find it pretty hard to think that the Poles didn't want their independence considering how many revolts they had and how hard they fought in the Polsh Soviet war
>>1001985
>1910 year was no public opinion poll in Poles area.
Boris there were polls in 1920.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksabstimmungen_im_Gefolge_des_Versailler_Vertrags
The Catholic Church has, historically speaking, not been a great defender of democracy as is evident in its support for Fascist states in the 1930s and for numerous unsavory dictatorships in South America.
communism and Russia in particular was unable to continue to compete militarily or technologically with the west, partly because it could not afford to. Seeing the writing on the wall, the stalling of Russian resolution left the eastern satellites in a position where they were able to throw off communism.
>>1002024
The pope supporting the Nazis is a meme bruh.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_Nazi_Germany
>>1002008
They've got over it, they were 100% assimilated German Patriots by 1910, even in Russia.
>>1002029
>Stormfags actually believe this
>>1002029
Yeah. Polish as a language was reinvented in the 1920s. It's common knowledge.
>what is the battle of Warsaw
>>1002026
This is a hell of a topic because both sides are partially right. The head of Church(Pope) didn't officially endorse nazis.
However, the Pope has never had authority to enforce the "don't support nazis thing", during the war for obvious reasons and after the war - because his authority was never absolute. As such you've had situations like that Vichy French collaborator who was hiding in French monasteries until 90's, when they've finally caught him.
The individual members of Church's hierarchy did endorse and supported nazis, the Church itself didn't, but you can see that there was pro-nazi faction in Vatican(just like there's pro-gay faction now).
>>1002046
>Pro Nazi faction then
>Pro Gay faction now
Jesus, Gays are literally Hitler.
>>1002056
Today's world doesn't have many political issues that require shifting Church's policy. Issues like allowing women to be priests, celibacy or tolerating gays are something that's actually debated.
Back in the 1930's and 1940's there was a debate whether Church should support the new movements like fascism and nazism that weren't communist, in fact they were very anti-communist but at the same time they weren't really something like their own Christian Democracy thing, neither they were like typical Conservatives or Reactionaries, so there was a debate whether they should support them officially, not officially or the opposite - if they should support their opposition.
In late 19th century the same went to communists - the Church has seen that communism, is making the common people stray away from the Church, so much thought was put into finding a way to put a stop to it.
Nowadays though, you really don't have and huge ideological crisis, not yet at least, so at this point the Church's problem is to face what sexual revolution brought to society and adapt. Hence the "Gay faction".
>>1002046
>This is a hell of a topic because both sides are partially right
True. Also this is what I meant.
>>1001662
>that webm
brilliant
>>1001992
>adorno.jpg
kek
>>1002163
First person to ever notice that.
don't you die on me
>>1002777
Well we have some good stuff going but then some /pol/lacks moved in without sources.
>>1002798
I'm sure there's more good discussion to be had
how long do inactive threads normally stay up on /his/?
>>1001840
>dat pious Catholic plob of Austria, Switzerland, and Italy
>>1005210
>Switzerland
>catholic
>>1001465
Polish Catholic Church
Lazlo Tokes
Off the top of my head.
>>1001512
>was there no underground orthodox activity? like i know how people secretly got baptised etc
Of course there was. For example, the burning bush movement from Romania, and the loads of religious folk that got "re-educated" in the prisons of Aiud and other places.
>>1006427
Oh yeah, and "Gheorghe Calciu-Dumitreasa who was sentenced in 1979 to prison and later banished into exile for preaching sermons labeling atheism as a philosophy of despair, and criticizing the regime’s violations of human rights and church demolitions."
>>1001548
>you're not allowed to fight back after we fuck around in the Ukraine :^)
>>1001636
You act like Luther was like some fucking massive leftist
He was always against a fundemental change to society
God Luther is such a cunt
>>1006505
Boris, the Ukrainians were fighting with the Polish.
>>1001657
Just found this. It is not about Christianity as such but there is some stuff in it about the protestant church as an organization: http://ehq.sagepub.com/content/45/2/336.full.pdf
>>1006485
Umm... medium.
They were underground denouncers, for the most part.
>>1006515
So says the jew
>>1007102
You would say the same about Luther if he was attacked for being a theorist of absolutism. Fucking /pol/tards.
http://www.lawctopus.com/academike/absolutism-lutheran-reformation/
>>1007026
interesting, i'll check it out, thanks
>>1007282
It will lead you to the standard literature. Please post good (academic) stuff on the Soviet Union if you should find something.
>>1006515
Laity priesthood alone is as egalitarian as it gets, Schlomo.
>>1007761
will do
hope this stays up til tomorrow
moshi moshi /pol/ desu
Communists killed millions of Christians.
Marxism is based on atheism and darwinism, it is diametrically opposed to Christianity.
>>1001465
>Jesus
>commie
0/10 poor bait
try reading the bible once in your life
>>1012393
and?
>>1001465
remember, jesus was an anti-establisment peasent who gave people free healtcare and advocated for leaving worldy posessions behind
in bible it says "Its easier for a camel to go trough from a needle hole than a rich person going to heaven"
>>1012584
confirmed commie
>>1012393
>Communists killed millions of Christians.
When? Where? In Civil War in Rusia / 1917 popes were killed because they have the dogma: "Emperor is anointed sovereign by God; his power is holy and from God"
>>1012393
Opposed, not opposed, this is do not change the fact, the first communist (in Ussr term) on the Earth was biblical vizier of Egypt patriarch Joseph, and his reign is described in Bible.
Some slogans of Communists was from copied from Christians.
"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:23-26"
What about the whole 'there wasn't real communism in the USSR' thing etc? Is there any academic writing about that or is it just a meme?
>>1016135
Joseph had nothing to do with communism, he just hoarded grain and then sold it to people once the famine hit, sometimes even enslaving them in return for food like the kike that he was.
>>1017890
There was a communism as a rule of communists but not as their main goal which is some... sort of perfect society or whatever.
>>1012393
> Communists killed millions of Christians
Christianity killed millions of Christians too.
op here, just started writing
i have 6 hours left to beat this shit out
god help me
>>1018195
There's plenty of leads on the thread?
Granted, most of it is shitposting but there are leads.
Communism-materialism.
It's very different from Christianity.
Only 2000 left to go!
>>1018311
Cuck.
regarding the eastern block every and all countries had their churches gutted and inflantrated by the state
most of the bishops were part of a network, some wrote honest, some disinformed the secret service, but they were ALL part of it
no exceptions
anyone telling you otherwise is eating up historic revisionism, since the grorious church must have SURELY fought the oppressing regimes!
but they actually made a simple compromise, to avoid eradication they cooperated with the state
how else you think churches survived?
>>1018346
do you have some sources to back that up? because in my research so far i've seen no actual evidence of that, with the possible exception of the orthodox church in russia
>>1001494
> Did the historically very significant orthodox church and peoples attachment to it have any impact?
Not really. Church's authority surged in the 90s, after Communism was out of picture.
>>1018350
im at work and my book is at home, its not in english though
the issue with this as many others regarding the previous era is the documents are not accesible and not every country made it public
whys that? well you can guess, ppl are still alive who actively took part in this and very quickly switched sides
>my commie is good, your commie is bad
is a common saying around here
quick, what were the main reasons for the collapse of the soviet union :3
>>1001507
You can still be a socialist without being a Marxist.
It'd be much more interesting to compare Christianity and Marxism: both have sacred scriptures, both perpetually, almost neurotically, theorized their positions and "articles of faith", both are based on a eschatological promise and both had countless schism, heresies and infighting.
>>1001465
Pope John Paul II funded the Polish Independance movement from Commies, made a papal comment that socialism is incompatible with Christianity, and made sure that the Cuck Social-Liberation movement remained in South America.
It's over, friends
It's all over
>>1018497
0/10
>>1018471
>implying it isn't all the same faggotry
>>1001815
In Romania, after the 1989 Revolution, people flocked to the curches like Jesus himself were there. Today, almost 80% of the country declares itself of Christian Orthodox faith. The restriction on religion and on free market during communist times backfired and created some sort of weird system after '89 where the Orthodox Church profits off of the state.
It's a lot to explain and to discuss, it's an interesting subject, I would also like to find some reading material on it.
>>1019412
care to elaborate
>>1001496
Jesus is a Communist
All of Jesus's miracles are true but at the same time, symbols of communist thought.
>Curing the leper, the blind and the paralytic is symbolic of state-run healthcare systems
>Curing the bleeding woman is a symbol for feminism. Note that he cured a bleeding woman, an illness specific for women.
>Feeding of the five thousand is duh, self explanatory
>Exorcisms are symbolic for purges which is routine in proletarian dictatorships.
>Exorcism of the blind and the mute symbolic for suppression of free speech and information. You may only speak and see when the state (Jesus) allows you to.
>>1019558
>take two things which are completely opposed to eachother
>claim they are identical
You're either baiting or VERY retarded.
>>1019614
>seeing things that are not there
>taking things out context
You're a paranoid schizophrenic.
Communism and Socialism are based on Darwin's theory of evolution. It is based on 18th century "enlightenment" thinking.
Marxism is hostile to the Biblical worldview.
>>1019624
Patriots and Giants are against each other but they're both football teams
>>1001496
Christianity is communism.
Jesus constantly declared that those that are oppressed, those that cry, those that are submissive and weak, are those that will receive the New Kingdom
being oppressed and living under a totalitarian regime would be a perfect situation for a christian, as that will ensure he is good to the eyes of Jesus
He asked his followers to reject the world, and to surrender all his material belongings
The "Good News" that Jesus talked about, the "Revelation" that he brought about, what was if you behaved exactly the opposite of roman pagans, if you betrayed those that you should have loyalty to, and love those that persecuted you, if you looked for death and reject life, if you sold everything away instead of saving treasures, then you will be rewarded with eternal life
he even points out that it is useless to follow him if you wanna live by the normal, non-inverted rules of the romans
See:
> I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; For if you love those who love you, what should you be rewarded for? If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Pagans do the same?
The inversion of all values, doing the opposite to what would ensure your survival in the world ( which Jesus considers evil), so that you can prove your illumination and be rewarded for doing the opposite of indicated by the laws of nature by being granted eternal life: that is the very core of Christianity
>>1019632
>Christian Communism
>the Essenes
>the Amish
>Puritans of Plymouth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taborites
Economically supported by Tábor's control of local gold mines, the citizens joined local peasants to develop a communal society. Taborites announced the Millennium of Christ and declared there would be no more servants and masters.
The work is based on the contention that in the state of nature, "the earth, in its natural uncultivated state... was the common property of the human race"; the concept of private ownership arose as a necessary result of the development of agriculture, since it was impossible to distinguish the possession of improvements to the land from the possession of the land itself. Thus, Paine viewed private property as necessary while at the same time asserting that the basic needs of all humanity must be provided for by those with property, who have originally taken it from the general public. This in some sense is their "payment" to non-property holders for the right to hold private property.
>>1019632
>Communism and Socialism are based on Darwin's theory of evolution
wut
>>1001485
“Christian theology is the grandmother of Bolshevism.” - Oswald Spengler
>>1019614
Daily Reminder Jesus is a Monarchist.
>>1019656
Essenes are Jews.
Amish own their own homes.
Puritans tried Socialism, it failed, they went to private ownership, it succeeded, we have Thanksgiving now to celebrate the death of Socialism in America.
>>1019634
Atheists and Christians are against eachother but they're both humans.
See how retarded that argument is?
>>1019656
Neither of those are communists.
You're also ignoring the entire Old Testament laws, prophecies and history of mankind.
You're talking about the atheist liberal hippie view of Jesus, not the Christian view of Jesus.
just ignore the "jesus was a communist XDD" shitposters, they're just baiting
>>1019632
The Plymouth Puritans established communism
[I]n 1620. July 1. 1. The Christians doe agree, that every person be rated at 10li., and ten pounds to be accounted a single share. 2. That he that goeth in person, and furnisheth him selfe out with 10li. either in money or other provissions, be accounted as haveing 20li. in [th]e devission shall receive a double share. 3. The persons transported & [th]e adventurers shall continue their joynt stock & partnership togeather, [th]e space of 7. years, (excepte some unexpected impedimente doe cause [th]e whole company to agree otherwise,) during which time, all profits & benefits that are gott by trade, working, fishing, or any other means of any person or persons, remaine still in ye comone stock until [th]e division. 4. That at their coming ther, they chose out such a number of fitt persons, as may furnish their ships and boats for fishing upon [th]e sea; imploying the rest in their severall faculties upon ye land; as building houses, tilling, and planting ye ground, & making shuch comodities as shall be most use full for [th]e collonie. 5. That at[th]e end of [th]e 7. years, [th]e capitall & profits, viz. the houses, lands, goods and chatles, be equally divided betwixte ye adventurers, and planters; wch done, every man shall be free from other of them of any debt or detrimente concerning this adventure. 6. Whosoever cometh to [th]e colonie herafter, or putteth any into [th]e stock, shall at the ende of [th]e 7. years be alowed proportionably to [th]e time of his so doing. 7. He that shall carie his wife & children, or servants, shall be alowed for everie person now aged 16. years & upward, a single share in [th]e division, or if he provid them necessaries, a duble share, or if they be between 10. year old and 16., then 2. of them to be reconed for a person, both in trasportation and division. 8.
>>1019664
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orderville,_Utah
United Order, a voluntary form of communalism defined by Joseph Smith. Orderville was settled primarily by destitute refugees from failed settlements on the Muddy River in Nevada. The extreme poverty of these settlers likely contributed significantly to their devotion to the principles of the United Order.
Although the United Order was practiced in many Utah communities during the late 1870s, Orderville was unique in both the level of success it experienced under the communal living style, and in the duration of the experiment. In the course of a few years, Orderville grew into a thriving, self-sufficient community. The success and relative wealth of the community attracted more settlers and Orderville grew to about 700 people. Orderville not only provided for the needs of its population, but produced a significant surplus for sale to other communities, which was used to purchase additional land and equipment.
The Order continued in Orderville for approximately 10 years. During the early 1880s, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints lost interest in the experiment, but Orderville attempted to continue it. In 1885, the enforcement of the Edmunds Anti-Polygamy Act of 1882 effectively ended the Order by jailing many of the Christian leaders and driving many of the others underground.
>>1019663
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agrarian_Justice
>made arguments for the independence of the christians when people thought it was a bad idea
>considered to be a founding communist
>wrote agrarian justice which calls for an estate tax, so people can get free money at the age of majority
>would be called a socialist today
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taborites
Economically supported by Tábor's control of local gold mines, the citizens joined local peasants to develop a communal society. Taborites announced the Millennium of Christ and declared there would be no more servants and masters.
>Taborites announced the Millennium of Christ and declared there would be no more servants and masters.
>>1019624
I never said they're identical, can you read?
If anything what I have said it's that the history of marxism and it's followers resembles those of christianity, not that Christianity = Marxism.
>>1019664
>Jesus was a capitalist
>Jesus charged money for people to hear his sermons, his time was valuable
>Jesus copyrighted the gospels, the bible aint free you freeloading commie
>Jesus charged for healing
>the lords house is private property, stop panhandling your way in
>you gotta pay Jesus to save your from your capitalist greed sins
aint shit free sinful son, pay up!
