Freetards on suicide watch
>>54350156
I literally don't care, I use OpenBSD.
Torvalds = nigger
Tell me when freetards weren't on suicide watch
Torvald is baller as fuck unlike toe cheese man. Does not give a fuck, does not give sjw a home unlike the gnu foundation. Good balance between corporate projects and free projects unlike hippy shit stalman.
>>54350213
This.
>>54350156
Even though I don't like ether Torvalds or Stallman, Torvalds is the better of the two by a wide margin.
Torvalds looks/acts like a normal dude while Stallman just comes off as a fucking weirdo.
Torvalds will always be a douchebag who almost made his code proprietary for the highest bidder. His rage and anger stem from regret.
The GNU tools are the most important part, though.
Linux would be unusable shit without them.
>>54350156
>his kernel literally doesn't work on its own
>let's co-opt a much larger, more mature toolset as our standard distribution model and call the whole thing after one tiny little piece
>ignore that the tiny little piece can be replaced by at least two other projects
I mean, drivers are great and all, but we don't claim that Intel or nvidia are part of the NT codebase, do we?
>>54350156
Acktchually, it's NT/Windows, or as I've recently taken to calling it, Supermicro/UEFI/SecureBoot/Bootmgr/NT/Windows
>>54350156
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDxMJQLXmBE
>>54350785
kernel does'nt need userland
userland needs kernel
>>54350862
>>ignore that the tiny little piece can be replaced by at least two other projects
The same can be said for GNU coreutils.
>>54350156
THANK YOU
>>54350984
Back then there was no alternative
>>54350785
Just like HURD?
>>54350156
Also not the first time he BTFO the autistic fat man
>>54350984
Yes, it can be replaced, thereby making the system using Linux no longer GNU/Linux. How is this hard to comprehend?
>>54350156
>GNU/Windows
LINUX TORVALDS CONFIRMED NOSTRADAMUS
>>54351030
What an arrogant scumbag.
>>54350156
im the events coordinator for my university's ACM chapter next year. should i try to get torvalds or stallman to speak?
>>54351037
That's like saying that a laptop comes with McAfee Antivirus/Windows just because they have a deal to carry McAfee
>>54351030
you know this is fake pasta right
>>54351054
Torvalds.
>>54351054
Stallman.
>>54351049
I know Stallman really is an arrogant douche, he says GNU/Linux just so people don't forget about him for even a second
>>54351062
You're ignorant analogy would be spot on if that McAfee Antivirus/Windows distribution simply could not technically function, even including completing it's boot routine, without the installation of the McAfee Antivirus portion, or a similar enough replacement.
>>54350570
>Torvalds looks/acts like a normal dude
You can say many things about how Torvalds acts. "Normal" is never used to describe how he acts.
>>54351054
Torvalds wont come.
Stallman will come but the stench will linger for weeks.
Ask Pottering to come, then stone him to death.
>>54351054
Stallman is expensive I hear. Might want to see if Linus is up for a live stream which stallman will not do.
>>54351103
are you literally retarded?
the linux kernel can function without ANY gnu code, im pretty sure you could boot, even, but you wouldn't get far without an init program
I use Linux/glibc/zsh/X.org/xmonad/firefox/neovim
>>54351105
Nah it's pretty fuckin normal, he's a baller
https://www.alpinelinux.org/about/
>>54351139
But it couldn't back then, you fucking retard.
>>54351120
really? i thought he'd be free since he's a socialist or w/e and his foundations nonprofit
>>54351153
that's not what the argument is about, good job moving the goalpost
>>54351139
Kernel will panic without pid1.
That can be as simple as a shell.
Systemd won't work without GNU, nor will upstart, openrc, or sysv. Feel free to write your own init system using busybox's anorexic shell tools, or maybe steal Google's for Android.
>>54351139
>ut you wouldn't get far without an init program
What init program has GNU written?
As far as I'm aware, neither systemd nor sysvinit nor OpenRC nor upstart nor any other init system around has been touched by GNU code.
>>54351070
Probably not.
Keep in mind we're talking about SOL INVICTUS, who would lose to roadkill in an IQ contest
>>54351157
>this tired bait.
Come on. Really?
>>54351188
Busybox comes with an init system.
>>54351197
I'm just talking about the fact that the kernel needs almost nothing to operate. People who say you need the coreutils to use the kernel are fucking braindead.
>>54351105
I would describe the way he acts as "alpha"
I mean look at this Top Gun motherfucker
>>54351157
>what is opportunity cost
>>54351030
>RMS
>google plus account
>"Richard Stallman"
fake confirmed
>>54351212
You don't need the GNU coreutils to use the kernel, and nobody has ever said this.
You need the GNU coreutils to use almost every program written for gnu/Linux that isn't busybox. X11 could probably manage too, bit I'm not sure
>>54350213
le upboat
>>54351248
That isn't busybox or Android userspace
>>54351248
>X11 could probably manage too
X11 HAS to manage, because it's used by every UNIX-like.
Inform yourself before you say stupid shit. The fact that I use a lot of open source programs on OpenBSD with almost no GNU programs is pretty telling. Now if only GNU didn't intentionally make gmake incompatible.
>>54351272
>Now if only GNU didn't intentionally make gmake incompatible.
>le gnu conspiracy meemee
>>54351272
X11 certainly used to be able to manage, definitely. I'm just not certain there's enough willpower for modern X including composition to keep it from being very GNU specific.
I honestly don't know if the BSDs have enough mind share in the desktop workstation space is all I'm saying.
>>54351280
It has to be real.
GNU loves breaking compatibility with stuff that worked just fine before, and force people to use their shit. Literally MS tier.
>>54351318
Yeah, I hate it when the authors of software conspire to improve it.
>>54351302
>willpower
>mind share
kill yourself.
>>54351248
Let me guess, the keyboard the most important component of a computer to you?
>>54350156
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “Linux”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called “Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.
Many users do not understand the difference between the kernel, which is Linux, and the whole system, which they also call “Linux”. The ambiguous use of the name doesn't help people understand. These users often think that Linus Torvalds developed the whole operating system in 1991, with a bit of help.
Programmers generally know that Linux is a kernel. But since they have generally heard the whole system called “Linux” as well, they often envisage a history that would justify naming the whole system after the kernel. For example, many believe that once Linus Torvalds finished writing Linux, the kernel, its users looked around for other free software to go with it, and found that (for no particular reason) most everything necessary to make a Unix-like system was already available.
What they found was no accident—it was the not-quite-complete GNU system. The available free software added up to a complete system because the GNU Project had been working since 1984 to make one. In the The GNU Manifesto we set forth the goal of developing a free Unix-like system, called GNU. The Initial Announcement of the GNU Project also outlines some of the original plans for the GNU system. By the time Linux was started, GNU was almost finished.
Most free software projects have the goal of developing a particular program for a particular job. For example, Linus Torvalds set out to write a Unix-like kernel (Linux); Donald Knuth set out to write a text formatter (TeX); Bob Scheifler set out to develop a window system (the X Window System). It's natural to measure the contribution of this kind of project by specific programs that came from the project.
If we tried to measure the GNU Project's contribution in this way, what would we conclude? One CD-ROM vendor found that in their “Linux distribution”, GNU software was the largest single contingent, around 28% of the total source code, and this included some of the essential major components without which there could be no system. Linux itself was about 3%. (The proportions in 2008 are similar: in the “main” repository of gNewSense, Linux is 1.5% and GNU packages are 15%.) So if you were going to pick a name for the system based on who wrote the programs in the system, the most appropriate single choice would be “GNU”.
But that is not the deepest way to consider the question. The GNU Project was not, is not, a project to develop specific software packages. It was not a project to develop a C compiler, although we did that. It was not a project to develop a text editor, although we developed one. The GNU Project set out to develop a complete free Unix-like system: GNU.
Many people have made major contributions to the free software in the system, and they all deserve credit for their software. But the reason it is an integrated system—and not just a collection of useful programs—is because the GNU Project set out to make it one. We made a list of the programs needed to make a complete free system, and we systematically found, wrote, or found people to write everything on the list. We wrote essential but unexciting (1) components because you can't have a system without them. Some of our system components, the programming tools, became popular on their own among programmers, but we wrote many components that are not tools (2). We even developed a chess game, GNU Chess, because a complete system needs games too.
By the early 90s we had put together the whole system aside from the kernel. We had also started a kernel, the GNU Hurd, which runs on top of Mach. Developing this kernel has been a lot harder than we expected; the GNU Hurd started working reliably in 2001, but it is a long way from being ready for people to use in general.
Fortunately, we didn't have to wait for the Hurd, because of Linux. Once Torvalds freed Linux in 1992, it fit into the last major gap in the GNU system. People could then combine Linux with the GNU system to make a complete free system — a version of the GNU system which also contained Linux. The GNU/Linux system, in other words.
>>54351221
>that picture
I don't understand this dank new maymay, can someone explain?
>>54351345
If we rounded all the remaining BSD developers and users into a room and gassed them, would it manage to be a bigger slaughter than sandyhook?
>>54351364
Unless you think the mouse or touchscreen are capable replacements without poorly emulating an on-screen keyboard, yes I do. Or is there some other means by which I might command my computer and communicate with other users textually?
Making them work well together was not a trivial job. Some GNU components(3) needed substantial change to work with Linux. Integrating a complete system as a distribution that would work “out of the box” was a big job, too. It required addressing the issue of how to install and boot the system—a problem we had not tackled, because we hadn't yet reached that point. Thus, the people who developed the various system distributions did a lot of essential work. But it was work that, in the nature of things, was surely going to be done by someone.
The GNU Project supports GNU/Linux systems as well as the GNU system. The FSF funded the rewriting of the Linux-related extensions to the GNU C library, so that now they are well integrated, and the newest GNU/Linux systems use the current library release with no changes. The FSF also funded an early stage of the development of Debian GNU/Linux.
Today there are many different variants of the GNU/Linux system (often called “distros”). Most of them include non-free software—their developers follow the philosophy associated with Linux rather than that of GNU. But there are also completely free GNU/Linux distros. The FSF supports computer facilities for gNewSense.
Making a free GNU/Linux distribution is not just a matter of eliminating various non-free programs. Nowadays, the usual version of Linux contains non-free programs too. These programs are intended to be loaded into I/O devices when the system starts, and they are included, as long series of numbers, in the "source code" of Linux. Thus, maintaining free GNU/Linux distributions now entails maintaining a free version of Linux too.
Whether you use GNU/Linux or not, please don't confuse the public by using the name “Linux” ambiguously. Linux is the kernel, one of the essential major components of the system. The system as a whole is basically the GNU system, with Linux added. When you're talking about this combination, please call it “GNU/Linux”.
>>54351393
It's an effective shitposting image I found on /mu/ which appears to show an exasperated spongebob
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/breath-in-boi
>>54351398
Do you also think the steering wheel is the most important component of a car?
Do you also think the front door is the most important component of a house?
>>54351367
>>54351379
>>54351391
In the common vernacular Linux is accepted as a discriptor for the operating system
You are not authorized to police people's speech
>>54351420
thanks, have an rms for your trouble
>>54351445
I'd like to see you use a car without a steering wheel, chief.
>>54351454
>You are not authorized to police people's speech
Oh boy, not this shit argument again. Why don't you go back to shitposting pictures of fedora-dogs?
>>54351480
>I'd like to see you use a car without a steering wheel, chief.
Do you think the cork is the most important component of a wine bottle?
>>54351445
Ah, the old
>the fundamental means of interface with the subject
conflation with
>a single piece of a working system
switcheroo
If violently shifting your weight to steer, and only entering and exiting houses via windows and chimneys is adequate for you, then by all means.
>>54351480
It is a valid argument faggotron
The English language doesn't exist to give recognition to software projects. It exists to effectively communicate thoughts and ideas.
When you say Linux, EVERYONE knows what the fuck you mean. That's how the vernacular developed. Begging for recognition for GNU is just pathetic on Stallmans part.
>>54351516
>faggotron
fyi, this is an 18+ board
>It exists to effectively communicate thoughts and ideas.
GNU/Linux communicates the structure of most distros more effectively. I'm glad we agree it's the better term to use!
>Begging
Stallman isn't "begging."
>>54351547
Linux conveys the operating system just as effectively
Imploring people to use GNU/Linux conveys autism
Congratulations, you've earned this picture
>>54351564
>that pic
fuck, I concede
>>54351564
Since when did clear speech become le autist meme?
I would get fired immediately if I spoke to my customers with the grace and eloquence of a 5 year old with a broken nose like you seem to.
>>54350998
>>54351007
>>54351030
>>54351090
>>54351454
>>54351516
>>54351564
Hi there!
You seem to have made a bit of a mistake in your post. Luckily, the users of 4chan are always willing to help you clear this problem right up! You appear to have used a tripcode when posting, but your identity has nothing at all to do with the conversation! Whoops! You should always remember to stop using your tripcode when the thread it was used for is gone, unless another one is started! Posting with a tripcode when it isn't necessary is poor form. You should always try to post anonymously, unless your identity is absolutely vital to the post that you're making!
Now, there's no need to thank me - I'm just doing my bit to help you get used to the anonymous image-board culture!
>>54351500
>a single piece of a working system
GNU coreutils
>>54351600
I want to see a boss that will *not* fire you for confusing customers with drivel about GNU that they don't give a shit about.
>>54351619
>a fundamental means of interface with the subject
Come on buddy, it's not hard to beat trump-level rhetoric, at least try
>>54351600
>HURF DURF I WANNA INTERJECT FOR A MOMENT
You think anyone in the real world would listen to that shit and NOT think you were an autist?
>>54351606
I'm a beloved member of the /g/ community
lol, he acts like he's Bill Gates or Steve Jobs. What a fraud.
>>54351652
Fuck off nigger nobody likes you
>>54351666
Like I care what you think Satan
>>54351652
Literally no one likes you.
>>54351643
I would refer to the server or workstation as a server or workstation, they wouldn't care about windows, osx, aix, hpux, GNU/Linux, or BSD. Knowing your audience is important. Talking to self-described knowledgeable individuals on an anonymous image board is a different audience.
>>54351652
>>54351652
>beloved member
All praise be to floens for easy filters!
>>54351644
>at least try
Well then
The point I'm trying (and apparently failing) to make is the distinction between something being essential and something being important.
The most important component is the one that requires the most work, requires the most thought, the most care, contains the most technology, whatever.
The most important component of a wine bottle is the wine.
The most important component of a car is the engine.
The most important component of a computer is the CPU.
The most important component of a Linux system is the kernel.
These are the components that require years if not decades of research and development to reach maturity, still receive the most man-hours to maintain, are extremely difficult to replace and of vital importance to the principle function of the entire thing.
You seem to be arguing that trivial things like peripherals, or small binaries like ‘ls’ which I could literally code up a replacement for on the spot, are somehow the most important thing in a system, which is just absurdly ludicrous.
They're all easily replaced. But go replace a kernel - after all, it was too hard for RMS and his team of GNUs.
>>54351716
>I would refer to the server or workstation as a server or workstation, they wouldn't care about windows, osx, aix, hpux, GNU/Linux, or BSD.
The level of irony in this statement is beyond ridiculous.
How can you simultaneously advocate abstracting away from the details where they're irrelevant such as in the example of caring about the OS when talking about hardware, but simultaneously advocate nit-picking about which specific ‘ls’ binary you have installed when talking about an operating system?
Linux wouldn't exist without GNU
He even says when he initially wrote it that he had no intention of making Linux anything big and fancy like GNU
If it wasn't for the GNU userland accepting the Linux kernel to have a more complete OS, it would just be another academic research kernel in an archive somewhere. I guess it's easy to forget history when you get big though.
Linux is the worst thing to happen to GNU. I wish Stallman and GNU had stopped trying to be perfectionists back when they decided to take a microkernel approach instead of spitting out a quick monolithic design. I wonder if Stallman and whoever else contributed secretly regret spending so much effort on HURD
>>54350156
>implying I've ever called it GNU/Linux
It's just GNU.
You don't call Windows "Windows/NT" because NT doesn't make up even half of the system.
It's just as retarded to call it Linux, since that's only a small part of the OS.
Torvalds is a professional egotistic butthurt man baby 24/7. If you actually think the whiny crap he spews is intelligible, you're a massive idiot.
>>54351652
a tripfaggot with a dynamic IP, I assume
A special rare breed of extremely harmful cancer
>>54351821
>It's just as retarded to call it Linux, since that's only a small part of the OS.
Go ahead, replace the kernel. I'll watch while you do so.
(And if you want to counter-argue: Feel free to tell me any GNU code you want me to remove my system, and I will)
>>54351770
Thank you.
Now, why do you think Linux is specifically called out in GNU/Linux? Because it is necessarily important. Just as important as GNU, the operating system that allows this distribution of Linux to be usable and successful in a general purpose system.
>>54351791
If it were just which version of the ls binary, this would not be an argument. Linux CANNOT operate independently of the REST of the operating system as previously described.
This is as much nitpicking as the differences between osx and iOS.
>>54350213
And yet he's still a retarded egotistical man baby who bitches and moans because you won't call an OS he didn't even make the name of the small fraction of the OS that he one time wrote an incomplete version of, leaving other people to actually make it functional.
>>54351841
Why should I replace a kernel? You completely missed each and every one of my points by a longshot which could only mean that you've got to be really retarded.
>>54351844
>Just as important as GNU
What components of the operating system are written by GNU?
The coreutils and ‘gcc’ are the only two that I can think of, really. The latter, I have already replaced by clang/llvm.
Of the coreutils, I mostly just use ‘ls’ and ‘grep’, occasionally ‘find’.
So yes, it does boil down to what ‘ls’ binary you have installed, because this is pretty much the only important GNU code on a modern Linux system.
>2008
>wouldnt it be fun if I made a bot replying with the interjecting copypasta at every linux post on /g/
>2016
>IT IS GANOO PLUS LINUX I AM SILLY
>>54351833
How do you know he has a dynamic IP?
>>54351889
Bash
Grub
Initramfs
GCC (as distinct from gcc)
Gtk
Glibc
GNU libstdc++
Libm
Fdisk
Among other things of course.
>>54351871
>Why should I replace a kernel?
To prove it's only a small part of the OS.
If it's a small part, it should be easily replaceable. Like the coreutils, or the shell, or the terminal.
>>54351007
SHOTS FIRED
>>54351889
>What components of the operating system are written by GNU?
coreutils, glibc, bash, GNOME, gtk, grub, readline, , tar, diffutils, findutils, binutils, autotools, emacs, etc.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GNU_packages
https://www.gnu.org/software/software.html
>[ls] is pretty much the only important GNU code on a modern Linux system.
I'm literally on my knees praying that this is bait.
>>54351914
remember when we only pretended to like stallman
unfortunately this attracted real freetards to the site
>>54350156
So we're on suicide watch because it's more accurate to use an easier to remember, more convenient and more appealing term which were all already used to use for Linux?
>>54351944
Oh right, I forgot about ar/tar, the basis of all package managers.
>>54351030
>implying RMS has a fucking Google account
How new?
>>54351935
You seem to misunderstand what small means.
>>54351934
gnu didn't invent initramfs, retard
>>54350156
I'm sorry but did this literally who invented GNU/Linux? No! Some shitty e-celeb has no say on what is correct.
>>54351980
Yeah, my bad. I'll swap that for tar
>>54351983
Neither do freetard autists
>>54351934
>bash
What is dash, zsh, csh, fish etc.?
>initramfs
This isn't a program, it's a Linux feature. My initramfs was generated by genkernel. Most others are generated by dracut.
>GCC
What is clang/llvm?
>Gtk
What is Qt? What is Tk?
>glibc
What is musl? What is uclibc? What is dietlibc?
>libstdc++
Part of GCC, why list it twice?
>Libm
Part of glibc, why list it twice?
>Fdisk
Lmao, fdisk is part of Linux. (I think you meant parted)? Anyway, what is fdisk/gparted/etc.?
Literally none of what you have written is really essential to Linux. Some are prepackaged out of convenience or because they're somehow better than the alternatives.
Doesn't make them important nor irreplaceable.
But go ahead, replace the kernel. I'll watch.
>>54352008
Freetard autists are what keep GNU/Linux alive and meaning they shaped GNU/Linux into what it is today meaning they created it by proxy
>>54350875
Windows/windows NT
tb.h famalam
>>54352000
which is also easily replaceable by bsd tar
>>54351606
>attempting to put a tripfag in their place by being an arrogant obnoxious crock of shit passive aggressive cum bucket
>>54352028
Nah, it's mostly Red Hat and Open Source (vs Free as in Freedom trash) keeping Linux alive
Go agead and try using a trash distro like gNewSense, it's broken garbage compared to the amenities available on better distros
>>54352008
Good thing they weren't appealing to their own authority, then.
>>54352016
>What is dash, zsh, csh, fish etc.?
Half-assed hipster shit
>What is clang/llvm?
Incomplete. It can't even compile your precious kernel, right?
>What is Qt? What is Tk?
Please tell me you don't actually consider Tk an alternative to GTK. And excluding Ubuntu, most GNU/Linux distros use GTK by default.
>What is musl? What is uclibc? What is dietlibc?
Partially-implemented replacements for glibc
>>54351944
Most of what you listed is small 1-line utilities that are easily replaced, and might already be replaced on most systems.
The only actually big (in the importance, not the bloat sense!) parts I can see are `glibc`, which is big because of momentum and feature creep, `GNOME/gtk` which are pretty much the most universally hated environment/toolkit around, and `grub` which is not even really part of the operating system itself.
>>54352051
>Go agead and try using a trash distro like gNewSense, it's broken garbage compared to the amenities available on better distros
gNewSense is literally just Debian without the non-free repos, you uneducated fuck
>>54352059
>Half-assed hipster shit
>ksh is half-assed because it's not bloated
GNUfags everybody
>>54352059
>Half-assed hipster shit
Yep, every shell that didn't come from GNU is half assed hipster shit. 10/10 argument anon, were you on debate team in HS?
Who am I kidding, you're still in high school.
>>54352068
Yup a gimped system with worse driver support
Most people on Linux use proprietary software, because they make the educated decision to support certain developers
It's a contract of trust
Not all proprietary is evil
>>54352091
A system without non-free software is the opposite of a "gimped" system
>>54352103
>I wrote a bunch of terminal software decades ago and released it to be used freely
>now that something barely successful is kinda riding on it i want my contribution highlighted and underlined by forcing people to use a new, annoying and unpronounceable naming convention that makes people who use it look like grade a artists
>I believe it is completely fair to strongarm the entire planet into giving me the credits I am entitled to
>now that were in the 2010s my software could probably be reingeneered and rewritten better in an afternoon if it came down to it, but I'm gonna cling to my end because I genuinely believe things will change in my favor
ok
>Today I got my new LFS system running.
>It uses Toybox for the userland tools with sbase and ubase where possible.
>The default C compiler is Clang. Gcc is only used as a fallback in the increasingly rare case clang doesn't work.
>The default C library is musl, glibc is merely the fallback
>I'm using dash and zsh as my shells.
>Some GNU still unfortunately remains, but not much and definitely not enough for the GNU OS argument to hold water. Work is in progress to replace these.
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as GNU/Linux,
is in fact, Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, just fucking Linux. Linux with some permissively licensed tools is an operating system unto itself, and doesn't need a GNU system made even less useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and mostly replaceable system components that's still not certified as a fully compliant OS as defined by POSIX.
Many computer users arguably run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it, but I don't. Through a peculiar turn of events, the system is actually Linux, and I am perfectly aware that it is definitely not the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
There really is a Linux, and I am using it, but it is just the most crucial part of the system I use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system
that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is
here used in combination with various free userland tools: the whole system is basically Linux with Toybox, musl, and Suckless added, or Linux (+ some other stuff I'll gladly credit if asked). Not all the Linux distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.
>>54351944
Why is all GNU code universally shitty or hated?
>coreutils
>glibc
Always made fun of for being so bloated and heavy compared to their alternatives
>bash
Always made fun of by people using modern shells (zsh, fish etc.)
>GNOME/gtk
Consistently hated and called shitty. Qt is vastly superior to Gtk in almost every single way. GNOME is infected with Red Hat ideology and being dumbed down by the second.
>grub
Ridiculously over-engineered, nobody needs fucking mode switching, pluggable modules, graphics etc. in a boot loader.
>autotools
Colloquially referred to as “autoshit” and hated by every single programmer I know.
>emacs
If there is such a thing as a GNU OS, this is it.
>GCC
Cthulhian internal code. Bloated conglomeration that simultaneously manages to be overly specialized.
It just keeps going on and on. Everything GNU touches, it ends up shit (code-wise).
It's no wonder, though, GNU has always been about politics more than technology - and politicians sure as hell don't write good code.
>>54352049
>not recognizing the 'tripfags get out reee' copypasta
youmustbenewhere.jpg
>>54352059
>Half-assed hipster shit
Congratulations, you might be the only person on planet earth who thinks zsh is “half-assed hipster shit” compared to bash.
>>54352111
>gcc could be rewritten in a single afternoon
How long did it take to for clang to catch up?
There are alternatives now, but there also also linux kernel alternatives, and alternatives to the linux kernel came a lot earlier.
>>54352131
>Why is all GNU code universally shitty or hated?
Because it's the most used.
>>54352103
Then we disagree
>>54352059
>Partially-implemented
You can't argue with GNU fags, because in their mind everything that only follows the spec is somehow “partially implemented” because it's missing all of the GNU-specific extensions that GNU managed to ram up people's asses.
>>54352016
>none of what you have written is essential to Linux
Correct, Linux doesn't need an archiver, a c library, or a graphical toolkit to run, but a user does. There is no individual on this planet that can use Linux by itself to do anything because Linux doesn't do anything without an OS to provide an interface for the user to use.
GCC is the GNU Compiler Collection. clang/llvm is an incomplete alternative.
musl, uclibc, and dietlibc are all partially compatible alternatives to glibc that each require a program recompile and sometimes a refactor to work (often with less or no support for non-english languages)
libstdc++ is not part of GNU libc, it's part of GNU libstdc++. If you can't comprehend this, I'm sorry for your parents and your (hopefully non-existent) children.
Yes, parted. my apologies.
All of these packages are replacable. Replace enough of them so that it becomes a nit-picking of bsd-ls versus gnu-ls, and you have an easy argument to presenting a non-GNU operating system.
But an extreme minority even try. GNU is the OS and Linux is the kernel as used and distributed by the VAST majority. Why you keep arguing this non-point eludes me.
As for your "replace the kernel" argument, Debian has already done it, twice.
>>54352146
>because it's missing all of the GNU-specific extensions that GNU managed to ram up people's asses.
yup, and it tends to make their software incompatible with anything that's not their software in the long run, so much for the whole free software argument
>>54352123
Fucking hero
I hope more major distros do what you have
>>54350213
litterally "Torvalds is a pretty cool guy and doesn't afraid of anything"
>>54352150
>but a user does. There is no individual on this planet that can use Linux by itself to do anything because Linux doesn't do anything without an OS to provide an interface for the user to use.
Then why single out GNU and not list all of the other things that a user needs?
Let's list the things I need on a day-to-day basis and use far more often than GNU code: (In no specific order)
1. A browser
2. A terminal
3. A shell
4. A text editor
5. A mail client
Where are those in your precious naming scheme? Why not call it Linux/Firefox/urxvt/zsh/vim/notmuch?
>>54352146
Doesn't matter, they're not full replacements
>>54351221
How does that argument not apply to everything stallman is against?
>>54352150
>clang/llvm is an incomplete alternative.
See >>54352146 >>54352157
I'm not sure what exactly you think “incomplete” means, but to me it sure as hell doesn't mean “doesn't implement GNU specific shit extensions”.
>>54351833
4chan doesn't use IP bans anymore
>got b& for shitposting on public wifi
>go home
>laptop is still b&
>>54352183
>everything
You're going to have be more specific.
I am not a programmer, but rather, a user. Since I mostly use the DE and it's software in my Linux experience, I think both the kernel and the utilities are superficial. I think Linux should be referred to as its desktop environment first.
I am a proud user of KDE/GNU/Linux
That doesn't feel complicated enough. Maybe we should fit UNIX in there too.
>>54352202
KDE/Firefox/GNU/Lunix
>>54352185
i mean incomplete in that it supports a small fraction of the same architectures, is not used at all in embedded development, and that Linus either refuses or is too lazy to fix his kernel to not us GNU extensions.
It is incomplete in that you cannot replace GCC for the purposes that you would need to make a non-GNU Linux-based OS. It is certainly close on x86 and amd64 though.
>>54352176
So you don't use gzip in your browser, gtk in your graphical environment, or libc/libstdc++/libelf/libdwarf/ld for your programs to even load at all?
>>54352176
>using a web browser
>not navigating the web by downloading webpages in the terminal and reading its source code.
Nigger just get a Mac.
>>54352131
>>54352142
And it's the most used for a reason.
Gnu utils tend to be the fastest, and have actually have the features people want and handle edge cases.
Like always having a --help, and long options.
Of course, this gets considered "bloat and heavy.", but aside from binary size, the core utils from gnu also tend to be the fastest, by quite a bit.
As for bash, not really fair to compare it to a newer shell unburdened by legacy.
Same for autotools, it's old, and while hated and complex, it worked. We've got better options now, but they've also had hind sight.
I'll give you grub and gnome/gtk.
Nothing wrong with emacs, and gcc is again, a lot older than clang, supports a lot more languages, and is still faster.
The real reason people consider GNU code universally shitty or hated is either
- They don't the ancient coding style that an ancient code base inevitably has.
- They think less lines of code is a good metric of code quality, over features and performance
- Hipsters who hate gnu because it's popular/pro corporation.
>>54352123
It's not like the linux kernel is irreplaceable either.
https://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-gnu/
>>54352191
Since when? My most recent ban is less than one week ago and I managed to evade just fine.
>>54352214
*Konqueror.
>>54352191
Then what the fuck does it use?
>>54352157
It's not like you can't just implement those extensions yourself, like clang did.
But apparently adding features is bad, especially when people actually like and use those features.
>>54352176
because none of the things you list are distributed together as ubiquitously as GNU and Linux. X11 would be a fair and reasonable contender, except that there are probably more GNU/Linux servers than desktops out in world.
>>54351221
>using bougie words to excuse weekend socialism
Neoliberal scum
>>54352016
>Replace the kernel
https://www.debian.org/ports/kfreebsd-gnu/
>>54352223
>It is incomplete in that you cannot replace GCC for the purposes that you would need to make a non-GNU Linux-based OS. It is certainly close on x86 and amd64 though.
This is not true, I replaced gcc with clang as my CC some time ago and back then only a few packages broke.
Nowadays it's even fewer. It really is practically a drop-in replacement.
G O D L I K E
>>54352247
Could you at least, please, refrain from calling it GNU/Linux in this thread? Please. It's so fucking cringeworthy.
>>54352191
You're wrong, and stupid. You should stop shitposting, or better yet, stop posting.
>>54352247
>because none of the things you list are distributed together as ubiquitously as GNU and Linux.
The things I listed are all distributed with most Linux distros as far as I can tell. And either way, they're still more important to the user than some coreutils.
>>54352265
desu, it's cringeworthy when you call the combination of GNU and the Linux kernel "Linux"
>>54352265
Alright, I'll just call it GNU from now on.
>>54352278
Unless you've replaced gtk, libc, libstdc++,libc, ..... with non gnu versions, that's all using it.
>>54352256
>Only a few packages broke
>mfw it's a victory for freetards to use hipsterer softerware than the mainstream hipster software if it only destroys a few of the pillars of their computer system.
This is a legitimate medical condition.
>>54352242
it uses a deep learning algo to profile users with pinpoint accuracy based on shitposting styles and meme spouting that are unique to each user
>>54350156
Poor Linus, he needs to pull his head out of his ass.
How much of Windows is built on software that started our getting purchased by Microsoft from other companies? Come on, let's rename that shit.
>>54352256
for x86 and amd64. i already mentioned this.
Arm may also have as-complete coverage, considering that's all Apple really wants it for.
you ignore the other architectures that clang/llvm has *no* support for.
of course, clang supports GPU architecture backends more readily due to its more modular nature, which will eventually allow it to catch up to GNU quickly.
but not *yet* is all i said.
>>54352265
I specifically maintain to call it GNU/Linux both because it angers you, and because it is technically correct in enough ways to satisfy my capacity to describe the concept.
>>54352278
those are distributed with most desktop-workstation oriented distributions. not server-oriented ones, and definitely not containers
>>54351105
>Expressing your arguments and opinions regardless of someone else's feelings is abnormal now.
Fuck you SJW faggots.
>>54352016
>what is shit hipster special snowflake garbage?
No thanks
>>54352325
But Torvalds does this and he's normal.
Also, what you said absolutely out of the norm.
>>54352330
Nice way of saying GTK/Gnome "devs"
>>54352325
>Being pointlessly abrasive because you're a memelord is productive
donald pls
>>54352330
>if it's not associated with my lord and savior RMS it's hipster bullshit
Wonderful argument anon
>>54352345
Can't argue with that
>>54352347
>using csh
>using tk
>using uclibc
>not a hipster
>>54352346
>unironically supporting Sanders
Just how dumb can Freetards get?
>>54352347
Not him, but the gnu versions of some of those tend to be the most widely used, and battle tested, so they would be "hipster" versions.
Going out of your way to swap out libstdc++ for musl in your distro would be hipster.
>>54352345
There are no GNOME devs. GNOME is developed by a baby with too much energy mashing a hammer onto an SSD until it makes a new, semi-stable DE, albeit with a few retired features that were mostly useless bloatware such as icons and menus and buttons... Soon enough God will shine through this child and GNOME 4 will be released, and it Will be a static desktop background with zero interactive features.
>>54352365
>What is a false dichotomy
>>54352365
>inb4 it's not really free software because it's paid for with your taxes
>>54352381
King Fatass is a Sanders voter
>>54352365
Wow, I didn't realize you could post any image but that ridiculous fedora dog. Congrats, you pulled it off
Anyone who doesn't vote for Trump should be kicked out of the country for being a traitor.
>>54350156
>calling linux 'gnu/linux'
>using linux at all
equally poor decisions
>>54352426
>Congrats, you pulled it off
No, he's still wearing it.
See it doesn't come off even if you flip him over
/g/ BTFO BY TORVALDS AGAIN
>>54352562
>informing users about the dangers of nonfree software
>hatred
>>54352593
>free software
What about UNIX guys? Linux would be nothing without UNIX. Why isn't UNIX in the name too?
>>54352614
>I'll post an image of someone literally in the act of protesting against nonfree software -- that'll show 'em!
>>54352593
>dangers
>>54350785
Alpine
>>54351652
Kill yourself
>>54352702
alpine is unusable shit tho
>>54350156
Someone send this to Stallman
>>54352744
and Hurd doesn't even work
>>54351120
>>54351157
No, he's actually pretty cheap to get him to speak.
>>54351652
>I'm a beloved member of the /g/ community
