FOSSfags BTFO
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You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology
You are currently reading a thread in /g/ - Technology
http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/discussion/2016-April/010912.html
x86 is botnet. Running Linux on x86 is a placebo. If you are running x86, you do not control your computer.
All you fags are running Linux on x86_64 and talking about how free you are when you are completely cucked by Intel and AMD. Stay cucked. It's time to install Windows 10.
>>54023518
Libreboot removes IME. Stay ignorant.
>>54023547
You didn't read the fucking post, you ignoramus. Libreboot can't remove this.
Nice try, Pajeet. But don’t you have something else to do? The curry is getting cold.
>>54023547
>>54023584
>claims to be free
>uses post 2009 x86
Enjoy that Linux placebo freetards.
>>54023518
> It's time to install Windows 10.
At least you tried today, rajesh
>>54023518
>x86 is a botnet architecture and it's Linux' fault so you should install Windows 10 because it's hundred times more the botnet
>>54023518
>everything has to be perfect
really i just cba
>>54023603
>he isn't using a Penryn C2D right now
What's your excuse?
>>54023568
>You didn't read the fucking post, you ignoramus. Libreboot can't remove this.
nether did you, fuckstick, on the machines that libreboot supports it removes the IME
nothing is ever good enough for the FSF
they're like the SJWs of software
>>54025023
Perfection is so hard to attain
Thank you NSA
>0% freedom is better than 90% freedom
If that were true, tails and whonix would be useless and ineffective
>>54026437
>They don't have an answer for this.
because there is no answer to it, using non-free bios and/or harmful hardware extensions (like intel ME and amd equivalent) and FOSS software aren't mutually exclusive
>oh, intel are being jews, better convert 60-90% of the webserver marketshare to windows
>>54026437
>There is no reason to use linux other than muh freedom
Yeah, no.
>>54026437
>No other reason
God forbid someone have a preference.
I wonder how much these microsoft shills are getting paid it would be sad if they were doing it for free
>>54026573
>because there is no answer to it
well, actually, I lie, there is an answer to it, it's called using libreboot with pre-2009 intel cpus and pre-2013 amd cpus on boards that are being ported to run with libreboot such as some thinkpads (t60, x200, t400/500) or some server/desktop motherboards (ASUS KGPE-D16, ASUS KCMA-D8, Intel D510MO etc)
however for most people the intel ME or amd equivalent isn't that big of a deal despite all the security risks involved, so they continue to use the hardware they're already using
>>54026437
>They use Linux as their mainly driver because they want to be a special snowflake.
That's.. not even funny, actually. Windows is the special snowflake OS. GNU/Linux is a pretty average unix-like system.
I don't understand the backdoor meme. If your computer is turned on then no shit it can be accessed. There's no backdoor that bypasses non shit encryption software like trucrypt if the computer is off.
>>54026701
>There's no backdoor that bypasses non shit encryption software like trucrypt if the computer is off.
..t.the backdoor is literally the cpu itself, it already has your encryption keys
>>54026694
Windows is THE operating system for "normal" users. The general public regards Unix and derivatives (if they acknowledge them at all) as something used by hackers or for servers or something.
>>54026710
Non shit encryption software Anon
>>54026750
if the backdoor is the cpu itself you can't hide anything from the backdoor
what, do you think you'll just be able to encrypt/decrypt something using a backdoor'd cpu and the cpu won't silently send the encryption keys off to somewhere over the net?
so is the best non-botnet cpu the qx9300
>>54026842
amd cpus up to 2013 (depending on cpu, obviously) are non-bottnetted
>>54026882 Can I buy the amd one with the wraith cooler
>>54026882
what about an 8350?
>>54026909
seems fine
>>54024990
Holy shit you are illiterate.
> All post-2013 (AMD) and virtually all post-2009
(Intel) systems contain this mandatory technology, and therefore, by
design, can never be converted to run using pure FOSS. Prior to these
changes projects such as coreboot could be used to replace the boot
firmware with a FOSS alternative.
>>54026633
Libreboot doesn't do anything about recently made CPUs. You are shit out of luck Linuxcuck. Install Windows 10.
>however for most people the intel ME or amd equivalent isn't that big of a deal despite all the security risks involved, so they continue to use the hardware they're already using
Hypocrite! You use non-free software.
>>54026882
Not Intel you faggot.
I've been wondering for a while what the fastest (single threaded) cpu without all this nonsense built in would be. Here seems like a good place to ask. Doeant have to be x86 either (just dont suggest that $3k power chip alright i mean consumer product)
>>54027697
Probably the latest iteration of the i7.
Is this the designated shitting thread?
>>54027711
>Intel
>not having the IME
Pick one.
Whats the cheapest fully foss computer?
>>54023518
Don't you get tired of posting garbage all day long?
>>54026414
>90% freedom == 0% freedom
>>54023518
>It's time to install Windows 10
Enjoy your botnet.
>>54027768
Sorry, I thought you were not being a faggot. You're gonna have to go with PPC or AMD from 2012.
>>54027780
Old x86 chips + shitty foss drivers for hardware, so probably not very expensive. If you want a new CPU, you are going to have to use POWER or SPARC, which are expensive as fuck and are not meant for desktops anymore.
So basically since any intel chip pre sandy bridge apparently has security holes the size of my butt after prison and anything after 2009 is backdoored, does that mean intel is a no-no for srs bsns?
>>54023518
AMD Bulldozer checking in.
Guess this will be my final free system.
Who /spark/ here?
https://libreboot.org/docs/hcl/gm45_remove_me.html
>>54027813
there are also ARM boards with zero proprietary bootloader / firmware and good enough specs for basic computer tasks
>>54023518
6_6
>>54024802
>implying anyone said GNU/Linux was at fault
>implying it's not just pointing out how much of a hypocritical retard you are for smugly jerking off to how "free" your libreboot shitpad is despite the system being practically backdoored and nonfree in hardware and thus no more free than a Winshit system
>"if I demonstrate my inability to read, the truth will go away"
>>54028669
#rekt
>>54024802
Wait...so the CPU has a backdoor, which leads you to recommend an OS that has lots of spying features...I fail to see the logic here.
That is like trying to put out a fire with a flamethrower.
>>54028856
It means you're no more secure or free that someone running Windows 10. The NSA can get all the info it wants from your CPU back door.
>>54027697
Anything pre-core2 is probably backdoor-free, and maybe some early core2 as well.
For non-x86, your best options in a desktop form factor are either a 2.5 GHz dual core Power Mac G5 or a 1.6 GHz dual CPU Sun Blade 2500/Ultra 45 (latter is expensive as shit probably because they're trying to fleece hipsters who destroy them to make shitty "sleeper" gaming shitboxes)
There's also the SGI Fuel/Tezro, HP C8000, or the POWER4/5+-based Intellistations if you're lucky enough to come across one, let alone afford it.
There are also non-Mac RISC laptops made mostly by Tadpole, I'd post-ironically blow somebody for an SPARCle/Ultra 3.
>>54028886
but not MS too
>>54029054
Who cares? Insecure is insecure, and non-free is non-free. You are now in a glass house and you have no right to bitch at W10 users.
>paid MS shill thread
>actually replying instead of REPORTING AND HIDING
>>54029070
i am one of the people that spouted the hardwarebackdoor buzzword around here.
i am no freetatd either.
I STILL don't want MS to get screenshots and statistics of literally everything i do.
>>54029127
But you're perfectly okay with the NSA having access to everything you do, or Intel/AMD spying on you? You're a retard.
>>54029070
>locks door
>"BUT ANON! LOCKPICKS ARE NOT SECURE, THEY CAN BE OPEN WITH LOCKPICKS"
>remove door
i can't follow your logic.
if i can't be 100% secure, at least i will do whatever it takes to difficult someone to spy on me
>>54029148
>implying
i never stated that i'm okay with it, did i?
>>54029148
>At the highest privilege level Intel/AMD use proprietary code at the hardware level
>This means they are able to spy on you
lmao
>>54023518
>botnet
are people really this fucking stupid
So what about VIA?
>>54029331
they make microcontrollers to things like printers and shit i guess
no more VIA desktop processors
>Intel doesn't release the (binary) source code of their instruction set architecture and so THE NSA CAN SPY ON US
>>54029291
Not only is this not true, it's just impossible for a "hardware back door" to have any meaningful effect on an operating system. It can't store or log data, it can't transmit data, it can't used to decrypt encrypted archives (even on the same fucking hardware). Maybe if you handle it correctly it can allow you to access the cache, which is going to be around 32kb-10mb of useless data.
>>54029355
they're back in the game, check out the new quadcore of theirs, has the same performance as atom x5 z8500
>>54029412
need more power
what else we have?
>>54029444
>what else we have?
As in FOSS hardware or x86? For x86, nothing besides these 3 really. For FOSS hardware there are some new ARM devices that come pretty close to Intel Core M performance
>>54029389
What is Intel Management Engine?
hint: a hardware "backdoor" with full DMA and network access.
>>54029463
maybe we should go to the powerpc's.
ARM is ok, but a lot of things we have today aims to x86. thats a problem.
>>54029484
Chinks released some MIPS64 processors that do x86 emulation close to 80% in performance. We can always create an x86 compatible processor as long as we can pay Intel when it sues us for gorillions of dollars
>>54029471
>it can turn your computer on only by being connected with the intenet and on power source
not even like getting boot from ethernet, it can even be used to do shit without granted permission (check out intel vpro)
2 spooky 4 me
>>54029444
SPARC and POWER servers
LEMOTE YEELONG
Thinkpad x60 libreboot
ARM laptop
RISC-V laptops when?
>>54029514
I just finished reading this, interesting
http://www.hotchips.org/wp-content/uploads/hc_archives/hc27/HC27.24-Monday-Epub/HC27.24.30-HP-Cloud-Comm-Epub/HC27.24.330-sonoma.Vinalk-oracle-v3.pdf
>>54029484
x86 apps don't work on PPC either so I don't see your point.
>>54029508
Linuxfags love to choke on non-free Intel cock.
>>54023518
>notice you're getting cucked by intel and amd
>winfags' solution to this problem is literally just "accept it and install windows 10"
I don't understand OP. What are you trying to solve with this shitty attitude? You realize that going along with it just makes the problem worse?
>>54029528
i miss the times ayymd opened the sources
>>54029534
The only real solution isn't acceptable.
You would have to spend thousands of dollars on a POWER or SPARC chip, install gNewSense or Gentoo with Linux Libre, and then enjoy your new space heater with almost no software for its exotic architecture.
There is no solution to this problem other than accepting that privacy is dead and joining the botnet.
>>54029534
"my daughter and wife are getting fucked by black boys, I might as well prep the bull and lube em for them to go in"
>>54029557
>There is no solution to this problem other than accepting that privacy is dead and joining the botnet.
even if what you're saying were true, this makes you happy because?
>>54029581
I think he's getting a submissive masochist boner from being dominated by micro and soft.
>>54029557
Except SPARC and POWER servers are incredibly cheap these days precisely because everyone is too busy getting cucked by intel and amd. I shouldn't be telling you this but using non-x86 hardware these days is a huge competitive advantage.
>almost no software for its exotic architecture
If you ever wondered why people tell you not to use proprietary software, this is why. Use proper cross platform software that gives you the freedom to build it for any hardware and OS you want and you will have no problems.
>>54029581
Because it proves that that GNU, the FSF, and the GPL are all fucking pointless mental masturbations of a man who got upset when he wasn't allowed to modify the source code of his workstation 40 fucking years go. It shows they have no place in the real world and that free software and copyleft are dead concepts with no place in the real world.
microsoft shill!! xDDDDD pajeeeeeeeeeeet xDDDDDDD
POO in lOOOO XDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
>>54029615
SPARC and POWER chips are still way too expensive for workstations.
>>54029637
power is, sparc is not, read the PDF i posted above
>>54029630
Haha that's a great one.
>>54029624
Oh hi Ballmer, I didn't know you were still posting here. I heard you got fired, how is that working out for you?
>>54029624
>It shows they have no place in the real world and that free software and copyleft are dead concepts with no place in the real world.
Again, that makes you happy because? i mean, eve if it were "mental masturbations" according to you what's the disadvantage of allowing people to modify and study the source code?
I'll start worrying when I see my router send packets I don't recognize while idle.
It won't, because it doesn't, because this thread is fucking retarded. You can disable AMT, and all the "botnet" in the world won't get packets to a computer through a firewall (ROUTERS DON'T HAVE AMT xD xD xD). Not to mention services would be listed and monitor-able, etc etc etc.
You fear mongering fucking retard
>>54029648
It says "low cost" but doesn't give an actual dollar figure, so it means nothing. It probably just means that it costs less than a server chip, which is unimpressive.
>>54029674
>I heard you got fired, how is that working out for you?
Great. I have more money and property than your entire family and I don't even have to work for it.
>>54029682
>i mean, eve if it were "mental masturbations" according to you what's the disadvantage of allowing people to modify and study the source code?
There is no disadvantage to this, but it should be done under permissive licenses like MIT, BSD, Apache etc., the way God indended, not under the GNU Viral License with its communist bullshit.
Open source is wonderful. "Free software" is a sin.
>>54029708
Can you make Windows firewall block Microsoft?
>>54029630
this is true unfortunately, MS is desperate for more people to use W10. see >>54023584 i can testify this image is not bullshit.
>>54029734
there's a configurable firewall inside the router *facepalm*
>>54029734
Router processors are almost universally based on MIPS architectures. They'll handle AMT/whatever the same way they handle everything else.
>>54029767
>>54029769
Why don't the anti-botnet fags just do this then?
>>54029734
>There is no disadvantage to this, but it should be done under permissive licenses like MIT, BSD, Apache etc., the way God indended, not under the GNU Viral License with its communist bullshit.
I see, you hate GPL, but still developers are the ones who decide under what terms they want people to use their work and a good number of them doesn't want to allow people to make closed versions of their work.
>Open source is wonderful. "Free software" is a sin.
Why you consider Free software a sin? and how does companies being shitty like intel and amd is linked to that?
Cool thread, Pajeet. I am now posting from my new Windows 10 installation. Parabola GNU/Linux-libre was such a farce. Thank you for enlightening me.
>>54029734
>GNU Viral License with its communist bullshit.
>GNU Viral License with its communist bullshit.
>GNU Viral License with its communist bullshit.
Confirmed Microshit employee. Do the world a service (for once) and end yourself.
>All post-2013 (AMD) and virtually all post-2009
(Intel)
>Thinkpad T60
>Yonah
>From 2006 to 2008
>tfw uncucked
>>54029793
I just want to show that the GPL can't protect these faggots from their imaginary botnets.
I hate GPL because I hate that people make code that can't be monetized or sold easily. Open source is supposed to be complementary to proprietary software, not an opposition to it.
>>54029799
>yfw you posted this
>mfw I have a router so this literally doesn't affect me
>From Intel AMT Release 6.0 you can allow both secure (16993) and non secure (16992) connections simultaneously (in previous versions only one of the ports could be open).
Well that was the easiest backdoor I've fixed in my life
>>54029820
>can't protect these faggots
So for you this is just a tribal war?
>from their imaginary botnets
How not wanting to accept abusive terms is considered something bad in the first place? Everyone has a different idea of what is acceptable and what not, so why knowing that some people can make compromises to use software with more respectful terms makes you hate them?
>I hate GPL because I hate that people make code that can't be monetized or sold easily.
Why you hate people whose actions doesn't affect you negatively and whose actions benefits people?
>Open source is supposed to be complementary to proprietary software, not an opposition to it.
Ok, i don't have anything against proprietary software but again, why intel and amd being shitty with their customers makes happy to you?
>>54029896
There is nothing shitty about the Intel or AMD software. It's just a security feature, but to Linuxfags it's fucking BOTNET!!!!!!
>>54029852
>>54029835
Let's get a
>tfw intel can't botnet your computer
thread going
>>54029912
>tfw my raspberry pi is a intel botnet honeypot
Just use an old ps3 and run gentoo
>>54029911
>There is nothing shitty about the Intel or AMD software.
You say there's nothing shitty but this measure effectively puts a barrier for the customer for having full control on the hardware they purchased independently on the reason why that person wants to have full control, so how you can say that's by itself not shitty?
>but to Linuxfags it's fucking BOTNET!!!!!!
Some people wants to have full control on their system, it's not their obligation to trust in the same providers you trust and as i said amd and intel put a barrier to that, why are you angry about people wanting to have full control on their devices? If you are not interested in that it's fine but why you need to detest people for that, what's the logic behind that?
>>54029820
>>54029734
I don't understand where you're getting this. GPL software can just as easily be monetized as any other software.
Also
>Open source is wonderful. "Free software" is a sin.
They are the same fucking thing.
>>54029956
Whoops
the worst thing about linux users is how easily trolled they are
signed, a linux user
>>54029966
They're not entitled to full control, and the system is more secure this way anyway.
>>54029979
>GPL software can just as easily be monetized as any other software.
>>Open source is wonderful. "Free software" is a sin.
>They are the same fucking thing.
No they're not you retard. Even the FSF makes this point.
I bet you're a dogmatic fucking freetard running Arch and you don't even have the vocabulary down.
No it can't, because you can never close the source.
>>54029979
>GPL software can just as easily be monetized as any other software.
Not by proprietary third parties who have no intent on ever paying for the permissive code they use.
But yeah, for the person actually writing the code, GPL give you MORE leverage to get paid than permissive, as you can dual-license. Nobody is going to pay for a dual-licence to bsd/mit code.
>>54029979
>GPL software can just as easily be monetized as any other software.
GPL software is extremely hard to monetize because you can never close the source.
>>54029989
>They're not entitled to full control
They're not entitle but it's not their obligation to be happy about that. Why it makes you angry when people demands for companies something they want? the company can just ignore them but they can just decide to buy from another competitor in the future. Why is this something bad according to you?
>and the system is more secure this way anyway.
This is debatable, not all people want to allow third parties to have control over their data and as i said they're not obligated to trust them, so why it would be negative if they win and get the right to decide by themselves?
>>54030031
You absolutely can close the source. You can release code under as many licenses as you want. The only person who has grounds to sue for violating your license is YOU. And you aren't going to sue yourself.
l2dual-license
>>54030034
>This is debatable
Yeah I'm sure you know better than the scientists at Intel, oh wise basement dwelling neckbeard.
>>54030043
No I mean as a third party. If I want to use your code for proprietary software, but it's GPL, I can't. If you refuse to license it under a different license, that code is useless to proprietary software developers. This is why I hate GPL.
>>54030066
Why the fuck should I, the person writing the code, give two shits about you, the person trying to profit from my code without being willing to pay for it. It's not like proprietary software vendors are letting people copy their shit for free either. Don't be a filthy hypocrite.
>>54030044
>Yeah I'm sure you know better than the scientists at Intel,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
I think i provided reasonable arguments so independently on who i am they'll be judged by each person.
>oh wise basement dwelling neckbeard.
>name calling
Even if it were true that i'm a "basement dwelling neckbeard" how does that invalidate any of my arguments?
>>54030086
I don't care about proprietary code because they're already using their code to make money. GPL only enriches the people who are paid to maintain it, so it contributes far less to economic activity. It's a barrier to commercialization.
> The FreeBSD project has stated that "a less publicized and unintended use of the GPL is that it is very favorable to large companies that want to undercut software companies. In other words, the GPL is well suited for use as a marketing weapon, potentially reducing overall economic benefit and contributing to monopolistic behavior" and that the GPL can "present a real problem for those wishing to commercialize and profit from software".[
>>54030088
Is this /pol/?
I'm not appealing to the scientists as an authority, I am appealing to their scientific and technological expertise.
Now do you really think that you know better than fucking Intel with all of its research and development and billions of dollars of science?
You know nothing about CPU architecture compared to them. You are a total ignoramus and you have absolutely no grounds to question their designs, especially since AMD did the exact same thing a few years later.
>>54023518
tfw libreboot
tfw arm
tfw PowerPC
tfw SPARC
All of the above run FOSS perfectly fine.
/Thread
>>54030016
No they don't. The FSF fully acknowledges that "open source" is just a marketing term for free software. They don't suggest using it because they have their own set of terminology that long predates "open source," but the point is it's just different words for the same ideas.
>>54030031
>>54030066
Then make money some other way. There are shitloads of other ways to make money than selling proprietary licenses. The proprietary software market is saturated to fuck now anyway.
>>54030138
>GPL only enriches the people who are paid to maintain it, so it contributes far less to economic activity. It's a barrier to commercialization.
This is blatantly untrue and I am ashamed to see the FreeBSD folks spreading such FUD. GPL allows just as much commercial activity as the BSD license does. The only people who are contributing nothing to economic activity are the proprietary developers who wish to forbid other people from doing things in the name of their profits.
>>54027650
Richard Stallman himself runs a fully liberated machine. (VIRTUALLY) means (ALMOST)
Therefore your argument makes no sense. By the way, i get far more privacy under GNU/Linux than anyone could get using a microsoft product. At one point RMS himself even used a computer with a nonfree bios as his main machine. It does not matter, it never has. Libreboot is a practically new thing.
If you use a microsoft product you are being spied on and your freedoms are not being respected. You should use software that respects your freedoms. Not software that uses you. Do not be a used, Be a User.
>>54030138
>Now do you really think that you know better than fucking Intel with all of its research and development and billions of dollars of science?
you're definitely appealing to intel as an authority that "knows more" without providing any argument by yourself.
>You know nothing about CPU architecture compared to them.
How can you know what i know and what know in the first place if this is an anonymous board? how demonstrating that i don know nothing about the design of the cpu invalidates what i said previously? Also, we're discussing the known consequences of including that module, not how it works, op provided a link about the topic so we have that info.
>You are a total ignoramus and you have absolutely no grounds to question their designs, especially since AMD did the exact same thing a few years later.
so name calling again and just asking to no question anything because "they know more"? Again, we know the consequences of including those modules and you haven't answered most of my previous questions.
>>54030199
Look, unless you have a PhD in electrical engineering with a specialization in CPU architecture, your opinions on Intel's security decisions are worth less than dirt. Do you have the qualifications or not?
>>54023518
daily Shill thread
DST
>>54030264
What makes you think anyone with those qualifications is allowed to have opinions? I've met PhDs who are dumb as shit and can't explain fuckall about what they spent years studying.
I am a PhD in Bad Threads, I can speak from 8 years of study in shitpostology when I say:
This is a bad thread.
>>54030264
>Look, unless you have a PhD in electrical engineering with a specialization in CPU architecture, your opinions on Intel's security decisions are worth less than dirt. Do you have the qualifications or not?
Ahm, ok so at this point you're not providing any more reasoning and you're telling me that you'll only accept arguments from a certified expert right?
ok, this is my last post then i have my own conclusions:
-You see this just as a tribal war.
-You're unable to reason by yourself if something is convenient for you or not, as long "those people" you hate are affected negatively in any way is fine for you and if is something that benefits you or not that doesn't matter.
-You don't actually know exactly why you feel like this, the target for your hate can be very arbitrary, maybe just someone who doesn't likes what you like or that likes what you don't.
You're like a wall right now but it was fun to argue with you, good luck convincing someone else.
>bawww i can't take credit and exploit others' pro-bono work
>bawww i can't repackage someone else's charity
Why don't you just write your own shit and sell it? Oh, you couldn't. Never change, lazy proprietaryfags.
>>54027803
Absolute fucking bullshit. You dont know what you are talking about.
>>54029557
>join the botnet.
There is literally no reason to do this because it doesn't change anything. Its totally irrelevant. Learn to use logic instead of brainlessly posting absolute fucking bullshit you retarded fucking moron. Kys.
>>54032934
Absolute fucking bullshit. You dont know what you are talking about.
what isnt a botnet desu
>>54033077
GNU/Linux
why not just use 64 bits
>>54023518
>It's time to install Windows 10.
You opinion is invalided to this point. You can't bitch about Linux on x86 then use a OS that is locked solely
Linux can be used on hardware besides X86. Windows/OSX are locked to intel cpu.
>>54028576
Can you give examples? Serious question. I'm pretty sure they're out there but am having trouble finding them. Bonus points if you can find something aarch64.
>>54023518
>Freedom can't truly exist while you use an x86 processor
>Better give up and hand all your data to the NSA
>>54028923
Core2 is generally fine, since any backdoor is removable. It's the i-cores you have to stay away from.
>>54029528
>giving a fuck about x86 not working on PPC
If you're going this far into justified paranoia, you should be using 100% open source software and hence should be able to recompile everything as needed for the switch.
>>54033085
>GNU/Linux isn't botnet
What is Red Hat? What is systemd?
>>54023518
8320e master race intel fags btfo
>>54034753
It should just go to show you exactly how desperate Microsoft is right now. They need to stay PRISM compliant, and they need as much of the marketshare as they can possibly get. If the constant shilling is any indication, they're not doing so well in either of these aspects.
>>54023518
>post 2013 amd processors
Who Phenom II here?
>>54034753
Will never get this argument.
>>54034922
What's there to get?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy
>>54027803
Are you checking if that's true?
>lives in 1st world
>100% of your data goes thru isp
B-but I use Linux so government can't spy on me!
>>54027650
you're the illiterate one, fuckstick
>on the machines that libreboot supports
libreboot does not support intel machines post 2009 and amd machines post 2013 ergo on the machines that libreboot supports it can remove the intel management engine
>https://libreboot.org/docs/hcl/gm45_remove_me.html
>This sections relates to disabling and removing the ME (Intel Management Engine) on GM45. This was originally done on the ThinkPad X200, and later adapted for the ThinkPad R400/T400/T500. It can in principle be done on any GM45 or GS45 system.
>h-hey f-freetards libreboot cannot remove this
yeah, apart from where it can remove it
>>54027673
>You are shit out of luck Linuxcuck. Install Windows 10.
>h-hey linuxcuck install windows 10
>you won't be cucked any more than you already are! promise!
>Hypocrite! You use non-free software.
maybe open a dictionary and look up what hypocrite means, because free software and proprietary software aren't mutually exclusive things
>>54027692
you didn't ask for intel specific cpus you tosser, you're delusional if you think a consumer 2009~ era intel cpu will hold a candle to an amd one from 2013~
>>54027713
sure is!
>>54027780
t60, x200 if you don't include the cost of flashing the device (t60 can be flashed through software)
>>54028219
the x86 sinkhole can affect amd cpus also, it just happens to only be demonstrated on intel cpus
but the vulnerability is greatly exaggerated, it requires full system access and the removal of some kernel (linux, windows, osx) modules to even perform the vulnerability
>>54028856
winbabies have been getting BTFO so much the only arguments they can now make are the exact same arguments people make against winbabies, have a look: >>54033000
>>54028886
>It means you're no more secure
completely and demonstrably false, for a start, for IME to pose more security risk than windows 10 (and all its telemetry) it has to have been exploited and spotted in the wild, what, do you think people who hook their computers up to routers don't notice dodgy traffic?
nevermind the fact that W10 telemetry data doesn't just send your data to microsoft, it can and has accidentally leaked personally identifiable information to anyone on the network, to microsoft, etc, so it isn't just microsoft getting that information it's anyone on the same network as you
>or free
0% freedom is better than 100% freedom on the os level, what the fuck have you been smoking
>>54029070
>You are now in a glass house and you have no right to bitch at W10 users.
that's what it comes down to, isn't it? you can't handle that some people might not like what you like, so you have to throw your toys out of the pram and pretend like everyone is worse off as a result
>>54029095
as if the mods have ever made a stance on paid shill/FUD threads, and as if the janitors actually remove the personal tech support threads nevermind the cancer that has killed /g/
>>54029148
when exploits to IME (or amd equivalent) have been spotted in the wild you might have a leg to stand on
it still doesn't mean the 60-90% of people running gnu+linux on their public facing web servers should suddenly pay out millions and millions of dollars to microsoft for software licenses
>>54029389
>It can't store or log data
for the sake of brevity I'll talk about the worse intel cpus that have shit like embedded 3g modems on die to send data, but it's applicable to any intel cpu with the management engine (amd less so, but amd are always behind intel, right? :^) )
...yes, it can store and log data, it has DMA access as well as access to every other hardware component connected to the cpu
>it can't transmit data
...yes, it can transmit data, the intel fucking marketing for the management engine is that it can send and receive data over ethernet, wifi, or 3g modems (laptops) to disable and lock the fucking device
>it can't used to decrypt encrypted archives (even on the same fucking hardware).
it has full access to the fucking encryption keys and full DMA access if you're encrypting/decrypting on the device
sure, it can't magically decrypt drives you connect to the computer but it doesn't need to, you're going to decrypt them, and then it has your fucking keys, your keystrokes for the passphrase to those keys, and access to the fucking data
and all of this can be done in a low power (s3) state
>>54025089
But if you aim for perfection you might achieve excellence ;^)
>>54029534
>I don't understand OP. What are you trying to solve with this shitty attitude? You realize that going along with it just makes the problem worse?
they're trying to lessen the blow of W10's telemetry gathering (on the absolute minimum, nevermind all the harmful shit if you're not spending hours configuring your system on dozens of option pages) by making it out like every pc is going to be "just as bad" as W10 because the cpus are backdoored, ignoring all the issues of IME exploits never being found in the wild and plenty of personally identifiable W10 data being leaked on the network while transmitted to MS
it's the only arguments winbabies can make nowadays, they're literally taking freetard posts arguing the pros of libreboot on the FSF mailing lists as libreboot being the only FSF recommended PCs (by the FSF's standard of freedom, nobody elses) to argue for the benefit of W10
people like OP are the same type of people to shit on libreboot for not having workable gpus because no dedicated gpu will have FOSS firmware (it's literally only intel igpus that work afaik, *maybe* amd) yet here they are having to use FSF mailing lists arguing the pros of libreboot to make their contribued cases for W10 not being that bad
>>54029557
>You would have to spend thousands of dollars
or, you know, $50-80 on a t60, or $40-80 (+$50~ on gear to flash) on an x200, or $80-100 on a t4/500 (+$50~ on gear to flash)
or, you know, maybe a few $hundred on amd/intel workstation/server motherboard that is supported by libreboot that can use up to 2009 (intel) or 2013 (amd) desktop/server cpus
>There is no solution to this problem
there is no solution apart from the solution you didn't list
>other than accepting that privacy is dead
widespread exploits of IME (or amd equivalent) found in the wild when?
>and joining the botnet
again, friendly reminder guys, it's partial botnet (to the state) or full botnet to private corporations :^) this is totally not shilling :^)
>>54029581
>even if what you're saying were true, this makes you happy because?
because he gets cents on the hour when shilling for MS
>>54029624
>Because it proves that that GNU, the FSF, and the GPL are all fucking pointless
which is why the gpl is arguably one of the most successful software licences and why the gnu utils are installed on millions of devices
>It shows they have no place in the real world
60-90% public facing webservers would like a word, anon
>b-but muh desktop marketshare is the only thing that matters in the real world
>>54029708
but don't you know cisco are owned by the nsa and there's literally no possible alternative software (cough pfsense) and no possible way to build your own router? better install win10 anon :^)
>>54029734
>Can you make Windows firewall block Microsoft?
no, and windows host files won't block all windows software from trying to access those pages
>>54029790
the anti-botnet fags that give a shit are doing this or are using librebooted machines
don't confuse this thread as people arguing with anti-botnet fags, it's purely a shilling exercise by MS to make W10 seem less bad than it is
>>54029820
>I just want to show that the GPL can't protect these faggots from their imaginary botnets.
>h-hey /g/ I'm your friendly MS shill here to let you know of these botnets within cpus so you may as well start using W10 already
>h-hey again /g/ just letting you know that your gpl won't stop imaginary botnets
>>54029986
see pic related
>>54030016
>No it can't, because you can never close the source.
>>54030031
>GPL software is extremely hard to monetize because you can never close the source.
xchat, synergy, rhel, minifree(librebooted machines) etc, would like a word with you, anon
>>54035759
>but don't you know cisco are owned by the nsa and there's literally no possible alternative software (cough pfsense) and no possible way to build your own router?
Are tomato/dd-wrt sufficient or do I need to look deeper to get a trustworthy router?
anyway my hourly quota per week of dispelling bullshit and shilling has been exceeded thoroughly, have a nice life /g/ I'm done with this place
>>54030044
>Yeah I'm sure you know better than the scientists at Intel, oh wise basement dwelling neckbeard.
>appeal to authority
yeah I'm sure those guys developing usb also realised badusb was a thing that could happen and worked to prevent that, right?
while it hasn't been found in the wild, there has been demonstrations of some
intel management engines being exploited, try harder
>>54030066
>This is why I hate GPL.
see pic related
>>54030138
>Now do you really think that you know better than fucking Intel with all of its research and development and billions of dollars of science?
>You know nothing about CPU architecture compared to them.
it doesn't take billions of dollars of research to realise that the management engine is a single point of failure as far as security goes
and oh, hey, look at that, exploits already exist on older implementations
>>54030264
http://invisiblethingslab.com/press/itl-press-2009-03.pdf
http://people.kth.se/~maguire/DEGREE-PROJECT-REPORTS/100402-Vassilios_Ververis-with-cover.pdf
>>54030322
>What makes you think anyone with those qualifications is allowed to have opinions?
because he's making an argument from authority and those guys at intel cannot possibly be wrong and are infallible wise gods of old
>>54034882
>It should just go to show you exactly how desperate Microsoft is right now.
you bet microsoft are shitting their pants
>>54034922
if you watch closely you'll realise the only arguments winbabies ever make anymore is the same arguments used against winbabies but just worded back at them
>>54035037
>what is end to end encryption
>>54023518
I removed my backdoor myself.
>>54035821
>Are tomato/dd-wrt sufficient or do I need to look deeper to get a trustworthy router?
you may have better luck with open-wrt over dd-wrt but if you're ultra paranoid you're in luck because there's always pfsense compatible professional hardware, otherwise you can build your own router with an old pc and gigabit pci cards and install literally anything you like
I used tomato firmware for years, would happily use it again if it's ever updated to faster routers
(I was jesting about cisco being literally owned by the nsa however, but there's some arguments to be made that if the nsa own and have backdoors in cisco/other router hardware then you won't notice them sneaking data off of your backdoor'd cpus, but that's tinfoil hat level of paranoia there)
>>54036008
>if you're ultra paranoid
I like to be consistent in my level of paranoia. Not myopically focusing on one thing when something else could blow it wide open and whatnot. Currently using a premade linux distro on core2 (but non-libreboot) hardware with a tomato router and an anonymous (in everything but payment trail) VPN. Possible next steps to ratchet things up a notch include porting replicant to my phone (currently stock android), rolling my own distro, getting something supported by libreboot, hassling my friends/family to use signal on their phones, or setting up my own email server.
>otherwise you can build your own router with an old pc and gigabit pci cards and install literally anything you like
Either I'd be using really old, potentially unreliable-due-to-age hardware, or I'd be back to square one in not being sure about potential security holes in blob firmware.
>>54035962
forgive the sheer stupidity of the question, but how do you get the IBM badge on the X200?
>>54036290
I bought two stickers made for the t60 on ebay and they covered the thinkpad logos perfectly. IBM has a much better logo than lenovo.
>>54036332
Another stupid question, is libreboot simple (1-10) to install and what practical benefits (other than MUH FREEDUMS) does it provide over stock firmware?
>>54036409
Along with freedom it also removes the wifi card whitelist, and on some computers it removes restrictions allowing you to install a more powerful CPU.
The Liberation was very straightforward, but keep in mind that forthe x200 it is a hardware flash. You get a clip for the BIOS chip, plug in the right pins to a raspberry pi, and then use flashrom to flash the libre rom.
Here is the guide I used:
https://github.com/bibanon/Coreboot-ThinkPads/wiki/X200-X201-Hardware-Flashing-with-Raspeberry-Pi
>>54035533
>>54035465
>using the smiley with a carat nose
How are AMD CPUs affected by this? Zen comes out in a few months, is there any chance I can use one and be free?
>>54029820
>I hate that people make code that can't be monetized or sold easily
wew I think this is the first time in 9 years that I haven't been able to think of a way to paraphrase what someone's said in a greentext to make it look worse than it actually is.
>people can't steal your free code and exploit it to make money off of it in a proprietary form
>This is a bad thing
How do people who write BSD code feel about the fact that they live off of donations while companies like Apple use their work to make millions?
>>54036127
ah, sounds good anon
>>54036409
if you haven't got a t60 you need to hardware flash libreboot with a beaglebone black or raspberry pi or something, along with a poma clip etc
for the x200 it's just a few screws to uncover the palm rest, but for the t400/t500 you need to completely disassemble the laptop as the flash chip is on the underside of the motherboard
installing it isn't too much of a hassle, configuring grub/installing a non-trisquel/parabola distro on top of it can be a hassle, but other than that it's fairly trivial
as for what benefits it brings, it offers most of the benfits of coreboot plus a little more, namely that you can have a fully encrypted harddrive (including boot) and can have custom payloads, some stuff that is in the work is a tiny recovery gnu+linux distro that'll sit on the bios flash chip so you can have something to boot to without a harddrive installed
>>54036609
:^)
>>54036832
>How do people who write BSD code feel about the fact that they live off of donations while companies like Apple use their work to make millions?
they view the bsd licence as working as intended while the gpl continues to be the communist scourge of a software licence that once it infects code cannot be removed (* this is what they actually believe)
>>54037643
if it requires extra components then i'll probalby save it for when i get an ssd and reinstall my whole system
>configuring grub/installing a non-trisquel/parabola distro on top of it can be a hassle
define "hassle". i run slackware and use lilo as a bootloader.
tbqh famiglia, i use a fair amount of non-free/non-approved software on a regular basis and don't really have a moral dilemma over it, so i'm not aiming for a 110% free system, but if it provides enough of a practical benefit i would totally get it and then brag about it to the one or two people i know who would actually be impressed by it.
also
>the gpl continues to be the communist scourge of a software licence
>this is actually true
>imposing freedom is being restrictive
>>54036127
I hassle my family and friends to use signal. So far it has about a 50% adoption rate. I also set up ssh access to my home server for select people and use email and talk locally on that box.
not going to debate this
But the marketshare of intel x86 products running linux is enourmos and bigger than the average consumer market in terms of money. This email is blown way out of proportion as Intel fully supports linux.
>>54037643
>using the smiley with a carat nose
>>54037941
>if it requires extra components then i'll probalby save it for when i get an ssd and reinstall my whole system
it's mostly a beaglebone black/raspberry pi to flash the chip, a poma clip, some breadboard wires, an external 3.3v psu (desktop atx psus work, otherwise you might be able to get away with whatever you're using to just power the bbb/rpi so long as it's beefier than usb power from another computer)
>define "hassle". i run slackware and use lilo as a bootloader.
well, the project obviously doesn't provide support for non-free distros and the default grub config can be a little clunky and likely won't work OOTB with them, but if you know or can figure out grub you can probably see what needs to be changed with the grub on the firmware image to chainload grub (or lilo) from your /boot partition
to be honest though, if you already use slackware I'm sure you're capable enough to figure it out if not already know how to do it
you may also be able to use lilo as a payload instead of grub - you'll have to use the coreboot docs for that however
>tbqh famiglia, i use a fair amount of non-free/non-approved software on a regular basis and don't really have a moral dilemma over it, so i'm not aiming for a 110% free system, but if it provides enough of a practical benefit i would totally get it and then brag about it to the one or two people i know who would actually be impressed by it.
to me the biggest benefit of libreboot currently is the embedded grub payload inside the bios flash chip allowing me to fully encrypt a harddrive including /boot, but in the future I hope the team finishes implementing allowing an embedded gnu+linux system (i.e., proteanos) to live on the same chip which is just ridiculously useful if the harddrive ever dies - you'll have a god damn tiny gnu+linux distribution just sat on the 8mb~ bios flash chip
>muh hur dur install libreboot derp
List of supported hardware
Libreboot supports the following systems in this release:
Desktops (AMD, Intel, x86)
Gigabyte GA-G41M-ES2L motherboard
Intel D510MO motherboard
ASUS KCMA-D8 motherboard
Servers/workstations (AMD, x86)
ASUS KFSN4-DRE motherboard
ASUS KGPE-D16 motherboard
Laptops (ARM)
ASUS Chromebook C201
Laptops (Intel, x86)
Lenovo ThinkPad X60/X60s
Lenovo ThinkPad X60 Tablet
Lenovo ThinkPad T60 (there are exceptions. see link)
Lenovo ThinkPad X200
Lenovo ThinkPad R400
Lenovo ThinkPad T400
Lenovo ThinkPad T500
Apple MacBook1,1
Apple MacBook2,1
Are you guys is a fucking kidding me, freetards?
>>54036720
No faggot. No new x86_64 processors for you.
>there is proprietary microcode running on your CPU
>therefore you should install windows 10
can you please explain the logic? there is a small amount of proprietary microcode running on your PC for certain tasks, therefore you should install tens of millions of lines of additional proprietary code that is almost certainly much more harmful?
don't get me wrong, i don't like the whole microcode thing, but ring -2 has been a thing for like ten years, maybe a little more, you're a bit late to the game, OP
if you're curious, you'll find that intel and AMD (especially AMD) actually document the assembly code that runs in ring -2 and -1 pretty well. it's not FOSS or anything but you should be able to see what it does
>=== MIPS ===
>Less well known than ARM
To a 12 year old child, perhaps.
>>54023518mov eax, "OP is a fucking faggot shill"
