All memes aside, is gentoo actually good?
Gentoo is literal autism.
So is Arch.
>>53793488
Agreed
>>53793488
agreed !
>>53793467
Yes
Literally installing it as we speak.
I just hope it will help me understand how UNIX works even slightly more than the alternatives.
I have an interest in operating systems in general.
>>53793899
>mfw he fell for the ganoo maymay
>>53793899
Some hints: don't use UEFI, use genkernel, get pulseaudio and a lightweight DE like lxde
>>53793899
>I have an interest in operating systems in general.
Then wouldn't you rather use them than just watch them compile?
Can somebody explain how Portage actually works? I've tried Calculate Linux for a while and the whole source customizing thing got confusing rather quick. Also does Portage do packages or just source?
>>53793945
Look up USE flags. And yes, you can get binaries.
>>53793933
>don't use UEFI
Why tho
>>53793467
It wouldn't be a meme if it were actually good
>>53793974
It just makes setting up the boot more complicated (and remember you have to do that whenever you update/modify your kernel). And you don't want to fuck up your boot and have to chroot from a live USB to fix it (or worse, start over completely)
I think so. It's my favourite linux distribution. I find portage in general very easy to use and work with, and I haven't found a package manager I like nearly as much. It's very easy to mix unstable, bleeding edge software with mostly stable stuff through keywords.
USE flags are an elegant solution to allowing users to customise their distribution to fit their needs and desires. Don't like systemd, KDE, qt? USE="-systemd -kde -qt4 -qt5". Now you can install whatever you want without worrying about it.
If you're really into the politics of software, it's easy to set up your system to only use free software. For example, I use ACCEPT_LICENSE="-* @FSF-APPROVED"
If you use a binary distribution, you have to jump through hoops if you want a specific feature in your software that the distribution does not provide. For example, in Arch, Conky by default is missing a few features I like; I have to fiddle with AUR to get conky. In gentoo, it's just a matter of setting a couple flags.
It's very lightweight from the outset and it's easy to keep that way.
Its forums are very helpful, and their wiki is mostly up-to-date and thorough. It's not hard to find support for Gentoo, and good support at that.
All memes aside, Gentoo is a very good distribution if you're the type of person who actually cares about this stuff.
>>53793965
Use flags are one thing I'm not sure about whether I grasp their concept. If I understood correctly, they're supposed to automatically optimize your dependencies according to the "positive" flags and avoid optional dependencies with the "negative" flags (what happens when you try to compile something that explicitly requires a negative flag though?) They only apply for source compiling and not Portage packages, right?
>>53793974
Oh, and use plain old BIOS
>>53793974
Loonicks can't handle anything made after 2003
>>53794006
>>53794033
I've found a T420 for cheap and it has UEFI on it, how hard would it be to transplant regular BIOS into it? Never messed with it before
>>53794017
>Arch, Conky by default is missing a few features I like; I have to fiddle with AUR to get conky. In gentoo, it's just a matter of setting a couple flags.
>Developers dont want to add a feature I WANT to the main code source
Sounds like a user issue.
Show me your precious use flags to patch anything in to stock conky
Gentoo is great for testing out builds with different combinations of different versions of non essential supported libraries and other features which aren't necessarily required dependencies. It has its place in the Linux community, but there's no reason for the average user to install Gentoo. Arch on the other hand is great if you have a 4GB SD card and need to shoehorn an OS in there with additional room for user space. This is where Gentoo sucks balls. You will need the largest /usr partition with Gentoo. Your /usr/lib and /usr/bin folders will explode with dependencies of dependencies required to build one program. I've never used Funtoo, but I assume it operates similarly.
>>53793467
No. Neither is ArchLinux or Plebian.
/thread
>>53794028
Portage compiles everything from source (short of a few packages), and thus USE flags apply to everything. Otherwise, yes, you're correct.
When you compile something with a negative flag, that application just won't use that in it. For example, wpa_supplicant, with USE="-kde -qt4 -qt5" will have no GUI. With those use flags, it will have a GUI. It's beautiful. I don't get the hatred for Gentoo around here, but I think it is just groupthink.
>>53794064
I have the same laptop, and I couldn't get UEFI to work after a day of messing with it. Finally just used bios and it worked. If you can get it working then good on you
>>53794096
But how did you actually stick bios into it?
>>53794064
You don't need to make an EFI partition to put Linux on a T420. Make sure you delete any UEFI security settings which previous users might have enabled, and put it in legacy BIOS mode.
>>53794122
Use MBR and set up the partitions like pic related
>>53794153
>>53794181
Oh, that's all? I thought you'd have to reflash the whole bios or some shit
>>53794093
An application without GUI would still be usually usable, but what if you blacklisted something that the app depends on from a functionality standpoint? Like if you had "-systemd" and tried to compile something that depends on it (stupid example, but can't think of a better one atm). If it's supposed to mess up, it seems like you have to plan out your whole system from the bottom up in advance.
>>53794229
LINUX DOES NOT HAVE 'APPS'
>>53794252
You know exactly what I meant, baby
>>53794252
You know Linux has APPS.
>>53794267
No, no I don't. There are no 'apps' within linux.
>>53794229
If a package has a USE flag then it *is* optional. The package maintainers aren't idiots
>>53794210
No, you shouldn't have to. I had a T420 for awhile and the first thing I did was format the hard drive and install Linux. If the previous owner generated secure boot keys or changed it to UEFI mode you need to delete those keys and change settings to legacy or non UEFI setting.
>>53794292
Oh, so it only affects -optional- dependencies. Now it all makes sense then, thanx anon.
>>53794295
Are there any disadvantages to using UEFI in legacy BIOS mode over an actual legacy BIOS for Gannon/Linkux purposes?
>>53794084
Holy shit. These ARE in the main code base you fucking nitwit. Have you EVER installed a package from source in your entire life? Normally, features are enabled or disabled via the configure script that most software ships with (https://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/html_node/Configuration.html ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Configure_script), and installing libraries like qt manually. USE flags abstract away from that and allow it all to be done easily through the package management system.
It has nothing to do with the developers not wanting to include it, and everything to do with the people who manage the distribution's binaries not wanting to include it when they compiled the binary.
>>53794229
Then it won't compile and portage will inform you of the changes you need to install that program. It'll say something like 'BLOCKED the following USE changes are needed to install this ...'. It's easy to change later too, so if you suddenly want systemd, you use flip the USE flag and recompile with --newuse.
It's easy to manage, and you don't have to do a lot of thinking ahead of time. What I usually do is disable some use flags globally that I don't want (gnome, gtk, qt, systemd, ...), and then modify things package by package when it matters, which isn't often.
You can set USE flags by package which makes it easy to do things package by package. If you want, say, a GUI for wpa_supplicant, but you don't want most applications to use qt, you can set qt4 for wpa_supplicant, then -qt4 globally.
>>53794428
You can delete your firmware if you use uefi, and you have to desolder the chip and flash it locally.
>>53794428
It probably won't work
>>53793927
This man is truly beautiful.
>>53794435
So what use flags are you using to add functionality to your conky? That are magically doing something that you can only do on gentoo because of use flags?
I've built alot of shit, most of it with custom patches i want, to enable functionality i want, but i dont go around bitching about it.
You still have yet to show me how any functionality is being added beyond BLACKLISTING entire groups/packages, which every distro in the world offers
>>53794435
>--newuse
Don't you mean changed use?
>>53794485
>You still have yet to show me how any functionality is being added beyond BLACKLISTING entire groups/packages, which every distro in the world offers
You have yet to understand what a USE flag does
>>53794441
>>53794463
So is >>53794295 talking out of his ass or not?
>>53794435
>then modify things package by package when it matters, which isn't often.
Why not use use flags then?
>>53793467
Maybe
>>53794512
A use flag blocks groups of programs or individual programs from being installed,minimalistically.
You brought up having to use multiple pacakges to get functionality when you are using Arch and their AUR.But said use flags could solve this.
What use flags will solve this
>>53794546
>A use flag blocks groups of programs or individual programs from being installed,minimalistically
Nope
>>53794582
>What use flags will solve this
>>53794515
I am not talking out of my ass. I bought a brand new T420 when they first came out. It was trivial to install Linux without EFI partition. If you are having issues, the previous owner might have generated secure boot keys in which case you would need to delete them somehow. You also don't want to boot in UEFI mode.
it's....something alright.
Reccomend grabbing a six pack while you compile your kernel
>>53794632
The Gentoo Experience. TM
>>53794628
I don't have it yet, I'm just being apprehensive because all my laptop history was with regular BIOSes only.
>>53794482
He should be, that's the creator Linux :)
Make sure you use -funloops! It makes you go sanic speed!!
Apart from ui what separates gnu-linux distros from eachother? could one say that for example ubuntu is better at handling memory, cache etc than mint?
>>53794702
https://fun.irq.dk/funroll-loops.org/
>>53794703
some distros fell for the systemd meme, other did not.
>>53794661
You dont need uefi it will bring you no gain and more hassle
>>53794028
People talk about USE flags as though they automagically work to install smaller binaries based on global options. In fact Gentoo is source based and so has scripts to install packages that use USE flags to set build options. For example the ebuild for urxvt in pseudocodesrc="http://dist.schmorp.de/rxvt-unicode/Attic/9.22.tar.bz2"
configure() {
if has USE flag "256-color"
./configure --enable-256-color
fi
}
https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/tree/x11-terms/rxvt-unicode/rxvt-unicode-9.22.ebuild?id=82ab5978f04fe1c984b701bdffd0e725027d00d6
With Gentoo, I can have optimized software for my CPU quickly, cheaply and efficiently, thanks to my AMD FX-8xxx processor !
>>53794485
You don't know what a USE flag does. It doesn't blacklist; it allows you to compile programs with the specific features you want, just like changing features using a configure script when compiling from source.
Let's use the conky example. Some of its USE flags:
LOCAL USE FLAGS
audacious
cmus
xmms2
I'm highlighting these three because they're all media players.
Now, say I use a distribution whose conky binary does not provide support for cmus, but does provide support for audacious. As a user of cmus, I want cmus, and not audacious. What can I do? You have three options in a normal distribution:
1) Compile from source, setting the configure script to not use xmms2 and audacious, but use cmus
2) Beg the people making the distribution to change their binary
3) Switch to audacious.
In Gentoo, it's just a matter of setting USE="cmus -audacious -xmms2".
Say I decide I'm tired of using a command-line media player and I switch to audacious. Now I just change USE="audacious -cmus -xmms2" and recompile through portage, and now conky has audacious support instead of cmus.
Gentoo's version of blacklisting is called MASKING, not USE FLAGS, and I haven't even brought that up for the specific reason you said -- every package management system offers some form of blacklisting.
>>53794495
--newuse will definitely recompile it, and that's what the gentoo guides usually use. I never got into the habit of using -U instead of -N. There's not really a big difference if you just changed some use flags... if you're doing a full @world upgrade, -U is the definitely the way to go.
conky does not depend on any of those, pulling them in is extra support
>>53794763
>if you're doing a full @world upgrade
I've only done world upgrades and haven't learnt the -U or -N arguments. What's are the benefits?
>>53793488
>>53793521
>>53793552
Samefag
>>53793467
Arch and Gentoo are pretty similar. The biggest difference is Gentoo is better for older hardware because you can do at compile time tuning to make it run better on your hardware.
>>53794810
>old
>compiling
Good luck working on a old athon 1.5ghz
>>53794703
>Apart from ui
UI is not part of the distro but likely the default DE package that the distro bundled. The differences between distros are the package manager that is used, and the repos.
>>53794810
>Gentoo is better for older hardware
Yeah, maybe if you want to compile your kernel for 2 weeks instead of 2 hours.
>>53794283
>linux has no applications
so you finally admit it
>>53794855
apps != Applications
Apps are on phones and windows.
>>53794868
Apps are a short for applications, autistic fuck
>>53794802
-N will check your use flags and recompile packages if any are changed, and will recompile packages where the actual USE flags on the package in the repository have changed, even if you don't use that USE flag (so, say, your package no longer offers an ncurses flag, but you don't use the ncurses interface, it will recompile it even though nothing will change on your system)
-U will only recompile if your own USE flags changed, so using it while doing an @world upgrade might prevent some unnecessary work.
>>53794838
What is distcc?
>>53794831
>>53794838
>not precompiling it on a modern machine
>>53793927
>using propietary ketchup
>>53794887
Go ask what an 'app' its to a iphone user.
They wont even have a notion of what it is called 'apps'."um candy crush in an 'app'"
Todays world, no they are not what todays term and standard for an 'app' is.
There are programs,and applications in linux
Are we going to call them PROGZ and go back to NFO ASCII art for changelogs?
>>53794887
I don't understand why 4chan keeps using this ancient maymay. Even 9gag every once in a while realizes a meme is old, but 4chan will keep using the most generic shit ever.
Call him a cuck next, that's totally new as well.
>>53794913
>>53794916
>What is distcc?
What's the point of using an older machine then when you can just be using the modern one? If you're a third world poorfag with just a plug and a toaster, Gentoo is a terrible idea for making toast.
>>53794946
>cuck
>new
kek
>newfags not using distcc on their local super computing beowulf cluster
>>53794686
I'm new to this, isn't this bait?
Linux is the kernel, stallman is responsible for the GPL clusterfuck and GNU isn't he?
I'm going back to bsd now, bye, bye.
>>53794946
Judging from your post I ought to call you butthurt
I have only old machines,and i mean very old,any advantages on using it instead plain debian?
Im serious
>>53794913
>distcc
>hoping you have a direct lan line to the old shitter.
>Hope you have low latency wifi if not
>old hardware
>hoping you can step crosscompiling
>>53794974
Stick to Debian unless you want your CPU to double as a frying pan
>>53794946
Cockmongler
>>53794933
It's generic brand tomato sauce
>>53794951
Not all computers are desktop computers. What if you want to do something neat with a raspberry pi or an ancient computer, but need a small, efficient installation of linux? Gentoo might fit into that niche, as long as you compile most of it on a more powerful computer.
There's definitely use cases where this makes sense.
>>53795030
>PI
>GENTOO
KEKEKEKEKKE
my sides
enjoy your 100gb install from deps
>>53795072
You do know that it is possible to install gentoo without the build dependencies from another gentoo installation by setting the ROOT environment variable with portage? You can even install packages for another architecture in that way.
>gentoo
>not a meme
Pick one
